by Kermit. Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:20

To use an old cliché: "A frog does not know that the water is heating until it is boiled alive".

by Rational Ecologist. Wed Dec 07, 2011 13:48

The oceans are also warming!

by Rational Ecologist. Wed Dec 07, 2011 13:47

If I am wrong about Global Warming then I share that honour with Wallace Broecker, James Hansen, James Lovelock and countless other with no axe to grind. I have followed the "debate' for the past two decades and have come to my position of certainty. I haven't come across any convincing information to change my mind, despite being open to it. One has always to be open to the facts. I think the last post speaks for itself and the interpretation of the graph.

by T Tue Dec 06, 2011 22:31

The graph above is a subset of the yearly change in Arctic sea ice cover. As the summer approaches a certain portion melts reaching the maximum melt at the end of the summer in September and then it freezes again. The different coloured lines showed that the extent of this summer melt is becoming greater.

With a bigger area free of ice this automatically more heat absorbed. Also not noted in the graph is that the ice that reforms is thinner because the proportion of just 1 year old ice is increasing. In previous years it would have a higher mix of older ice.

I think the graph shows quite well that in the past few years there HAS been a dramatic reduction in the amount of ice reached during the summer melt. If we look at the graph we can see that 2007 and 2011 about 5 to 5.5 million sq km-2 compared to 7.5 million sq km for the 1979-2006 mean. That is about 30%. That's a lot.

by Climate Realist Tue Dec 06, 2011 15:46

There is no doubt that the earth's atmosphere is warming

Nonsense - there is considerable doubt - for the past 10 years at least, there has been no statistically significant warming at all, and in fact for most of that time the trend has in fact been negative - your seemingly rock-solid certainty is based on ignorance of the temperature trends

there is no doubt that this situation is due to rocketing CO2 levels

again, nonsense. There is considerable doubt as to the true cause of any of the warming perceived over the last 150 years. Despite being on the receiving-end of millions (some say Billions - with a 'B') in government funding for the last 20yrs at least, the climate scientists have been completely unable to supply a reliable figure for the climate's sensitivity to CO2. There is much debate in the scientific community over this aspect of the science - you simply stating that there is not won't change that one little bit .

there is no doubt that it is CO2 levels that are the deciding factor.

there you go again - pure nonsense - there is increasing evidence which shows that the sensitivity of the climate to CO2 has been over-estimated - some say vastly over-estimated. The fact that the temperature trend has declined recently while CO2 has continued to rise is proof positive that the simplistic "CO2=Warming" hypothesis in in serious need of revision

The earth is not flat but you can make the arguement that it is.


Introducing silly strawman arguments into the conversation won't do much to convince any intelligent person that you know what you are talking about. The temp trend is flat for a while now, and by some estimates negative - ignoring that, as you do, just makes it look like you are avoiding reality

The persistence of a debate gives the very false impression that there is doubt. There isn't any doubt.

Well in YOUR mind, obviously not. But reality (through the recent  temperature record) is telling a different story. You can ignore reality if you wish, I cannot stop you doing that, but to demand that everyone else do the same seems a little bit ridiculous, to be honest.

by Rational Ecologist. Tue Dec 06, 2011 15:24

There is no doubt that the earth's atmosphere is warming and there is no doubt that this situation is due to rocketing CO2 levels, along with other greenhouse gases. There is no doubt that this is due to increased industrialisation. Other factors do influence climate, such as precession and solar activity, however, there is no doubt that it is CO2 levels that are the deciding factor. Please refer to the work of Wallace Broecker, among many others. The earth is not flat but you can make the arguement that it is. The persistence of a debate gives the very false impression that there is doubt. There isn't any doubt.

by climate realist Tue Dec 06, 2011 14:48

Arctic Sea Ice IS NOT Shrinking At 'Unprecedented' Levels

The title that the original poster chose for  this comment thread is quite simply inaccurate - wildly inaccurate in fact

Data from 4th December 2011 - Nothing 'Unprecedented' about 2011 to be seen in the above graph

by climate realist Tue Dec 06, 2011 14:41

Shock News From The Met Eireann : The Sun Affects The Climate (whoda thunk it?)

Several research papers have linked solar activity with the Earth’s climate, finding a correlation between solar activity and the occurrence of severe winters in the UK and continental Europe. Mike Lockwood (UK) in 2010, for example, used surrogate geomagnetic data for the solar activity and the Central England temperature record that extends back to 1659 to study the link. It was found that cold winters are associated with periods of low solar activity; the Maunder Minimum, which had virtually no sunspot activity, coincided with a cold period – the ‘Little Ice Age’. Lockwood, and others, suggest a link between solar activity and the occurrence of long-lived winter blocking events in the eastern Atlantic. There is some evidence that the blocks associated with low solar activity are more intense, longer lasting and displaced further eastwards compared with average conditions.

http://ww.met.ie/news/display.asp?ID=123

by Bill Henderson Tue Dec 06, 2011 13:32

'' The door to 2C is closing,'' the International Energy Association warned on Wednesday, in its World Energy Outlook 2011. We have until only 2015 to make major systemic change or be locked-in by fossil fuel capital stock to emission levels that promise at least 2C warming and, more probably, 4C plus warming and hell on Earth.

The Permafrost Carbon Network reported this week in Nature that present anthropogenic warming is releasing enough carbon from thawing permafrost to greatly accelerate warming. Melting permafrost is just one ticking time bomb, one of several latent carbon bombs, that activated by our present emissions could become a positive feedback accelerating climate change.

And at the COP meeting in Durban the voices of the developing countries who will be most effected by climate change are trying to at least use this forlorn opportunity get the big emitters to recognize the urgency of climate change in a world preoccupied with the economic crisis.

Climate change is an emergency requiring urgent systemic change but governments everywhere and particularly multilateral governance needed to deal with a global-scale problem requiring global scale action are either gridlocked or captured by business or otherwise preoccupied with the economic crisis. ...

by Cool Head Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:03

Yes Emily, I have no doubt all you climate hystericals are 'Ion Peril'. But is all the ice melting and are we all going to die? No. These melting and refreezing cycles have been going on for millions of years. Your expert 'glaciologist' Christian Zdanowicz, seems a bit wooly about mans involvement in the supposed melting; "We kind of have to conclude that there's a strong chance that there's a human influence embedded in that signal."

'Kind of'? 'Strong chance'? Maybe he should go away and find of definitively if there is a definite link, especially if it is to lead to millions losing their jobs and starving to death due to the proposed inhuman policies of the eco fascists.

http://www.real-science.com/federally-funded-arctic-fraud

http://www.c3headlines.com/2011/12/stefan-rahmstorf-maj....html

http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=8737&linkbox=tr...ion=5