Direct provision - the laundries of the 2010?

by concernedcitizen Sat Jun 07, 2014 15:41

@ feudal you seem to only focus on white people , you know not all the rich people in the world are white...

@T going into the history of how africa is how it is today is fair enough ,but i think you are letting africans off the hook,they are responsible for their own outcome,they cannot keep blaming their history..

by feudal castrato Sat Jun 07, 2014 13:15

Nigeria is rich in resources
Yet most people in Nigeria live on a dollar a day.
Shell make billions each year in profits in Nigeria. The same shell stealing billions from us in a crooked gas deal.
They work with the well armed corrupt government of Nigeria in order to kill anyone who objects to this pillaging of their resources. Here, they didn't kill people but hundreds of gardai regularly beat the shit out of protesters and the media bad mouthed them for years. Key organisers were targetted and jailed for months.

This is a common pattern in third world nations where there are resources

Ever wonder why Obama is so terribly concerned with some kidnapped schoolgirls in Nigeria?
Controlling these resources, that's why!

Africa is a rich continent full of resources with some of the most fertile soil and growing
conditions on the planet.

If we just left them alone, Africans would have no need to emigrate anywhere.
But the fact is our meddling and pillaging and propping up and arming of puppet corrupt governments
in order to control or steal their resources is largely why we are seeing many people emigrating from there and seeking Asylum in Europe.

Get the crooked white men and their arms out of Africa and leave their resources to the indigenous people.
And get them out of here too. Because these are the people we really need to kick out of our country
Address the root of this problem instead of just the consequences

by T Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:46

I disagree with your analysis. It is far too shallow.

First off, you are forgetting that the African continent was ravaged and plundered by European powers for the best part of a century or more and millions of people were captured and taken away as slaves. If that didn't do damage, I don't know what did.

Second you make the assertion that "what caused poverty in africa was the greed of African leaders" -this is overtly simple. After the World War II, there was a real effort to break away from their colonial masters and strike out an independent path for themselves and in the 1950s, 60s and lesser extent in the 1970s, we saw national movements arise and gain independence. At this time there was real growth and progress there. However the owners of big capital who previously 'owned' or should I say robbed huge land holdings and plantations, mines, forests and so forth, didn't like this situation and so the counter-offensive began. This was wholly backed by Western governments and their intelligence services and since the USA was the leading superpower after the war, they led the charge. As one ex-CIA agent commented years ago: 'there isn't enough soap in the world to wash my hands clean for the things that I did in the name of the poor in Africa'. There were coups after coups, with barbaric dictators placed in power. The deal was if they followed orders from Washington, they would put tens of millions in their bank account and assure their protection. As soon as they stepped out of line and tried to do anything for their people and the progressive development of the country, they were deposed or simply killed. And from the 1980s onward, as stated in my earlier comment, a new form of colonial control was devised and that was through banking and finance enabling the rape and plunder of Africa to once again move back into high gear. For millions of Africans, they were reduced to grinding poverty ruled by despotic government held in place by threat of military and financial force by Western capital.

It is absurd them to not take any of this into context when you take about the cultural and economic backdrop for Africa.

Lastly you mentioned that:

In order for Africa to become a better place,it starts with ordinary Africans not Irish people.In the past in ireland people risked their lives to make ireland an independant country.

To me this seems to imply that somehow the Irish are better and at least risked their lives. Africans have risked their lives and many died in their fight for national liberation. Far more than Irish people. It is true though that some Irish people did risk their lives to make Ireland independent but the numbers were actually relatively small. Only two or three thousand bothered show up for the 1916 Rising, yet 100,000 went off to fight for their colonial masters -the British in the First World War I and approximately 49,000 died. Granted that many joined the British Army because they were essentially economic conscripts.

Again then we see such a throwaway line is much more complicated in reality.

Finally you forget too that literally tens if not hundreds of thousands of Irish emigrated to the UK over the years and would have received social welfare from the Brithish state. I am sure there were many British who complained, yet our emigration had a lot to do with the effects of years of colonialism. It is not possible to have any rational discussion about the Irish in Britain without in some way acknowledging the predator - prey relationship of the two islands.

by concernedcitizen Sat Jun 07, 2014 09:40

The IMF didnt just come to Africa,it came to Ireland too....Before the IMF came to africa there was poverty, the IMF didnt create poverty,it was already there,granted they probably made it worse.

But what caused poverty in africa was the greed of African leaders and their many wives and large families they have to suport,why is it when we see them on tv or in the newspapers they are adorned in the finest of gold and sliver,wearing the best cloths,and their people dont even have a pot to piss in...

In order for Africa to become a better place,it starts with ordinary Africans not Irish people.In the past in ireland people risked their lives to make ireland an independant country.

Granted not all of Africa is dangerous...In some parts of Africa people will have to risk their lives if they want and have a genuine passion to make africa a better place.

Coming to ireland under false names wont make Ireland or Africa a better place..

by T Fri Jun 06, 2014 23:15

Above it was asked:

Why is it they dont stay in their own country and try to make it a better place instead of clogging up public services in ireland?

Because most of the countries were destroyed by a combination of the World Bank and IMF in the 1980s when the lent billions to corrupt leaders and in the vast majority of the cases the money was wasted or spend on mad-scheme giant projects that tended to either be a complete waste or were the benefit of local elites and multi-national firms. Then when these countries were struggling to pay their debt, the IMF imposed severe austerity and the countries assets was sold off cheaply to corporations. The health, education and social functions of these countries had their budgets completely cut and hundreds of millions of people were condemned to poverty. It was during this period that the mega slums grew. In effect after these countries try to break free of their colonist rulers and went for nationalism, that period ended as they essentially came under what is known as Financial Imperialism.

The present austerity in Europe simply reflects that the IMF ran out of countries to plunder and have now turned to the 'Western' countries.

As to why they can't make the place better is because these can be dangerous countries and people doing progressive things in the sense of trying to make the country more self dependent and independent of the financial overlords tend to get killed. The CIA has and still operates in many African countries and has been responsible for countless coups and barbaric regimes.

So its no wonder they try to escape.

by @feudal Fri Jun 06, 2014 18:51

There not poor africans as you put it,they can do better than you or i on 188 a week,they dont have to pay for their rent,their meals or their childrens pocket money..They can wait it out for social housing..Not bad at all if you ask me..Its a good meal ticket..

I dont have even a fiver after im finished paying off all the bills on my JSA..They get three meals a day im lucky if i have one that day.I have to really watch my pennies,make sure i dont boil the kettle more than three times a day etc..

They are doing better than most in africa, and if they can afford to fly halfway across the world and land in ireland there not really poor..

by feudal castrato Fri Jun 06, 2014 16:25

surely it's people like the white irish property speculating scumbags and foreign banksters and their political friends in FF/FG/Lab that cause us to have to pay over 2 billion in bank bailout interest every year that we should be angry at, not a few poor people from africa trying to get by.

This immigrant fear being drummed up is mostly divide and conquer tactics to divert us from our real class enemies.

by concernedcitizen Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:00

And i quote: ''Yeah there are always the scum who have the excuses for why other people should be treated in a a less than human way. I'm sure 60 years ago you'd have been kissing the priest and proclaiming why those women had to be sent to the laundries. And in the 1840s you'd have welcomed the famine to check the number of the poor. Your type are always around with the bad word and the cruel heart.''

How are they excuses?Im not a scumbag,you dont even know me so take that back..

How exactly would i be kissing a priests ass like you claim?Dont pretend you know me or act like you do,i would be the last person on earth to kiss a priests ass..

Tell me how they are being treated as less than human - they are given food three times a day,not something i could afford on the dole,i only have one meal a day..

I have to watch my pennies,make sure i dont use TOO much electricity,ie boiling the kettle more than three times daily,i make sure i include everyone in the household in that cup of tea..

These ''asylum seekers'' get 19 on top of free bed ,free food and board,and 9 euros for their children,i'll tell you i dont even have five euros to myself after paying for all the essentials..

So they are doing well if you ask me..

These ''asylum seekers'' fly over many ,many countries (with the money to do so),and land convieniently in ireland..

Are these really asylum seekers??Some who engage in destroying their documents,on the way over to ireland,so they cannot be traced back by irish authorities,who are evasive,show deep contempt and lie to immigration.

I just have to wonder when i hear stories and read about stories like this,i have to wonder are these people really in an emergency situation when they dont apply for the first country nearest to them but take a 12+ hour journey sometimes catching two or three connecting planes to ireland?

Hardly a laundry situation,they choose to stay here,sometimes waiting it out for other accomadation in social housing,something we are in shortage of here.

Why is it they dont stay in their own country and try to make it a better place instead of clogging up public services in ireland?

It is clear we cannot afford mass immigration,the IMF and TROIKA have paid us a visit if i can jog your memory for you on how to make cuts here and there,and take medical cards off of sick cancer patients and disabled etc..

by concernedcitizen Thu Jun 05, 2014 18:08

You got it completely wrong,i never said ALL BLACK AFRICANS OR MUSLIMS or whatever would lie cheat and steal ,im saying most illegal immigrants /asylum seekers would lie cheat or steal if they thought it would get them anywhere...Thats what i was saying..Not a racist comment understand?

If they lie about who they are and where they come from what else are they capable of?Thats what im asking..

I never once mentioned anything negative about skin colour or culture,and if you must know what really bothers me its seeing overpopulation,and fractured communities fighting it out for already meagre resources..

The more people there are the less resources between them,thats what i have a a problem with,our heatlhcare service as it is - is absolutely diar...

Look at the hatchet job Dr james o reilly did to ithat department under FG/LAB rule....Could you imagine making the siutaiton worse.. By piling healthcare tourists on top of that,clogging up a&e's up and down the country,like the UK it would be a LOT worse..

The NHS is a mess and what makes it a mess is constant mass immigration,more and more people flooding into the country looking for medical care that they could probably get elsewhere.

What i ultimately think is we need to get our own house in order before accepting immigrant quotas off the eu,and being used as a dumping ground, and to drive down wages in race to the bottom schemes..

by fred Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:36

You said earlier without any evidence, before it was hidden that "they" (meaning black africans of course) would "lie steal and commit murder to stay here". Thats a pretty racist statement. And a link to the daily mail is a laughable excuse for evidence for such sweeping statements.

The real problem here is the likes of IBEQ lobbying for and the EU neoliberals flooding the place with people from the EU itself in order to undermine labour laws in a race to the bottom. It's not a proportionately small number of actual asylum seekers from warzones etc in genuine need.

I have absolutely no doubt that there are a lot more illegals here than the official figures show, but if the EU allowed us to control our borders rationally and FG/FF/Lab had a coherent and sensible policy instead of just doing what big business and the EU want then this would be much less of an issue. It's their deliberate ideology to try to "dilute national identity" as Peter Sutherland said.

Tight knit communities tend to stand together to fight privatisation, corporate encroachment and environmental destruction thus impinging on potential profits. By creating a culturally homogenous "grey goo" all over Europe, they undermine communities and national identity and help pave the way for huge profits with less resistance.

I have no problem with genuine asylum seekers, but I certainly do have a problem with the neoliberal agenda of the EU for Ireland and other peripheral countries.

Meanwhile the same sociopaths in the EU and their friends in the US are busy funding terrorists and fascist agitators and voting for more wars and intervention all over Africa and the middle east and now Ukraine, and creating ever more misery and people genuinely in need of asylum. It's these scumbags who we should be angry at, not their unfortunate victims.

However, I believe what really bothers people like yourself "concerned citizen" is the fact that you see some black people, not the much deeper problem we have with an out of control neoliberal EU ideology

by concernedcitizen Wed Jun 04, 2014 19:24

They are living it up better than most people fred...Irish people up and down the country are SADDLED with heavy mortgages by banksters that have artificially pumped up interest rates etc,etc..

A banker will lend you his umbrella when the sun is shining but will take it away the minute it rains..Most people would be lucky to get away with having a fiver to themselves for the week or month after paying all the bills off...

Having free bed,food and board for the night and food,not having to worry about where the next meal is coming from is doing okay.....Better than most i would say...

As for asylum seekers destroying their documents,this isn't some fable many articles and other newspapers have touched on it at some point,have a read [here] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-200747/Asylum-s....html

As for racist guff,point out the racism in my comments,did i make a reference to their colour of skin,or their culture etc?

Where did i make those comments,i'll tell you where...NOWHERE...

I abhor people like you fred,you are quick to jump on the bandwagon and call people like me racist when in fact i can see the wood from the trees..

This country is a great welfare state and other people from across the world far and wide realise this and are jumping on the bandwagon..

Some are even being coached on how to destroy their documents and fake new ones,basically forge their way into a new life..

Its not on,we have enough people to support on welfare without penniless immigrants coming in with a ''me me me'' entitlement attitude,there is a WHOLE INDUSTRY built up around this with migrant rights etc..

Like drug dealers they are pushing immigration,as it is in a well known recession that is expected to deepen and last at least another ten years according to noonan,is the last straw if you ask me..

Overpopulation is a serious problem too,why is it you want to cram as many people into one square foot?

To improve the quality of life maybe? So we can all compete for scant resources such as education,medical care and welfare?

by fred Wed Jun 04, 2014 14:30

People awaiting processing of their asylum applications are certainly not living it up. Furthermore, the process is dragged out due to our glacial bureaucracy and legal system. The real winners as usual are well connected private hostel owners, overpaid administrators and the legal profession.

Personally I think we should allow a limited quota of people in sensible proportion to what our small population and current finances can reasonably support. We should actively select these people ourselves from those most in need from troubled parts of the world rather than just processing people who can afford plane fares and happen to arrive here from the EU.

Processing in such cases (people we actively select ourselves on basis of genuine need) should be pretty clear cut. Savings could be made on legal fees, less bureaucracy, and dispensing with many of these inadequate privatised for profit asylum centres which most agree are often not fit for purpose.

Arguments can probably be made regarding some genuine problems with multiculturalism as it currently exists, the long term EU agenda, potential effects on worker rights and wages, statements made by the likes of Peter Sutherland,
EU should 'undermine national homogeneity' says UN migration chief
dilution of cultural identity, integration, ghettoisation, religious fundamentalism, abuses of the system, the wrong people being given immigrant status while genuine people in need are being ignored etc etc

However racist guff without evidence as has been posted on here only serves to derail any sane discussion of the matter. And the EU driven multiculturalism agenda is certainly not quite the same thing as asylum seekers in genuine need of our help and compassion

by Andrew Tue Jun 03, 2014 20:01

Yeah there are always the scum who have the excuses for why other people should be treated in a a less than human way. I'm sure 60 years ago you'd have been kissing the priest and proclaiming why those women had to be sent to the laundries. And in the 1840s you'd have welcomed the famine to check the number of the poor. Your type are always around with the bad word and the cruel heart.

by concernedcitizen Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:08

You refuse to include the truth about these migrants..

Why is it some of these migrants FROM AFRICA,do not apply for asylum in the nearest country to them,they are OBLIGED to apply for asylum in the NEAREST country to them,BUT DONT ,they pick and choose to land in ireland,fly over many countries DELIBERATELY to come to ireland?!?

Its a well known scam,another scam they do is they DESTROY their documents when coming to ireland,so they cannot be traced back to their country of origin and promptly sent back..
[substantiate your assertions (link to evidence) or posts will be hidden ok? - moderator].

They have a CHOICE,they CHOOSE to stay in this accomodation.Not ideal i will agree,but most people in ireland living on the 188 or whatever barely have FIVE EUROS over to spend after paying for their rent and food and water and electricity..

They have free food bed and board and have 19 euros over to spend,not really a bad set up considering where you came from..

[further serious unsubstantiated assertions hidden by moderator].