The Struggle Against The Bin Tax Escalates in Dublin

by pasionaria - swp Tue Sep 23, 2003 04:04

Niamh,

please note that paye is supposed to cover local government.. so tell the government to tax the rich and not us,, as i really dont have any more money to give them. considering the cost of living and waged slavery! i have to put up with.

so just think , what is Cullens solution.. afterall they said bin charges would go towards recycling.. LIE...... no niamh,, instead minister cullen wants to issue not one but 8 mass burn waste incinerators in ireland.. nice of him!!

plus.. domestic waste produces 8% of irelands total waste each year.. yes thats right 8%..

so look who is the polluter,, and look who doesnt pay.. but who will be made pay?? us,, with our health , considering that incineration affects a 40 mile radius.. so lets be honest, Cullen is not really the minister for environment. he is the Minister for Cancer.

by Andrew Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:46

I've just added a report on the Cabra blockade to the newswire, its online in full at http://struggle.ws/wsm/news/2003/sept12dunard.html

by conor (wsm personal capacity) Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:41

dunno what the fuss is about
by caff Thursday, Sep 11 2003, 6:01pm


In every other county in Ireland people pay for their bins to be collected, we also pay for our water yearly. Dublin is the only county that dosn't. And this from the county that wanted to dump their waste in kill, what a bunch of freeloaders. You use wicklow and kildare water yet neither council gets money towards the upkeep of plants that provide it from authorities in dublin because they never get any money for it. Quit being selfish and stump up like everyone else has had to.


me: I've herad this attitude before and frankly it bewilders me. Charges have been implemented through out Ireland and have been accompanied by privitisation massive increases and a complete deterioration in services

SURELY the lesson from this is that they must be oppossed vigorously evry where from day one. if other folk had have "selfishly" oppossed the charges we might not be in a position in Dublin where the coucil are refusing to collect the rubbish of ordinary PAYE workers leading to a potentially very dangerous health situation

it is in EVERY tax payers interests that the charges be beaten in Dublin - show some solidarity - if we win here may be we can strat to take them on else where as well


Conor

by sp - sp Fri Sep 12, 2003 04:42

sorry that last one sounded rude i didn't mean it too. we have lots of your party's supporters involved and you should be too check out the website and call up. on the general idea we don't have plans as such they change by the morning but tomorrow if your on the north side of fingal we will neeed you, or if on monday on the westside. All phone numbers or on the anti bin tax website.

by sp - socialist party Fri Sep 12, 2003 04:33

sorry this is so late but we've been busy.

i hate to hear this sectarian shite. I have personaly spent two days driving around with an SWP member from the area. we are fighting together and getting along just fine!!!!! she is from the area and involved in the fight. obviously fingal is an sp strongpoint but i and everyone else (the vast majority are not sp members ) will work happily and gratefully with anyone willing to fight, Sinn Fein, Labour or anyone else. so if you think you are being left out, join us we want everyone to help. this is a real fight and no time for the leftie gang shit of late. united we will WIN. Sinn Fein member we know you're not strong ropund here as a party but lots of your voters are involved. don't bitch get involved.

by ??? Fri Sep 12, 2003 03:16

We are not looking for free rubbish collection, we just don't want to pay twice for the same service. If you had bothered to read some of the other postings on this issue you would have known that.

by niamh o'brien Fri Sep 12, 2003 02:48

of all the things to get on a high ground about this is the most inane and self-centered of all. instead of trying to provide and rally behind sustainable ways of dealing with our waste - which no-one should be allowed think is a pass the buck game - we should all feel responsible for disposing and recycling of OUR waste. By not paying bin charges people are allowed forget that this is a problem that will not go away and that cannot be solved by simply putting your empties in a black sac and expecting the bin man to magiacally whisk it away to an undisclosed location. while the 'double tax' cry is real - what we should be demanding for our money are more options for sustainable recycing ....bring centers should be more a part of our thursday evening than late night shopping. we are the consumers and it is up to all of us to pay the price now for our wasteful living practises.while i am under no illusions that the county councils are using the money presently provided by bin charges to do anything but dig deeper holes, this lobby for free rubbish collection would better serve themselves and future generations if they would settle to pay for the alternatives to the pitless black sac philosophy....now that would well be worth the fight.

by Night prowler Thu Sep 11, 2003 23:28

I have not been involved in the campaign before now, but whatever happens I'm not paying the blackmail. Even if they manage to stop the protests and take the rubbish from selected bins, I will still get rid of my rubbish.
Incidently there is a fianna failer living not far from me and he has a lovely big empty garden....

by Badman Thu Sep 11, 2003 23:17

It's an injunction granted against named people at a preliminary hearing before the hearing itself. However, the hearing is almost certain to make the injunction permanent and also may make it general (ie extend it from the 15 named people to a general injunction against blocking these trucks). At least that's my understanding.

by Kev Thu Sep 11, 2003 23:05

I rang the centre to find out, but they had only found out at the same time as me (if that makes sense)

But here's the FABTC press statement.

Injunctions Against Bin Tax Campaigners:
Legal Manoeuvring by Fingal County Council Will Not Break the Anti-Bin Tax Campaign

IT HAS been reported by the media that injunctions have been secured by Fingal County Council against anti-bin charge campaigners, although no member of the Campaign has yet been notified officially. The Anti Bin Tax Campaign in Fingal and in the greater Dublin area will not be cowed by legal manoeuvring by Fingal County Council.

This is a cynical move by the management of the County Council to use the legal system in an attempt to enforce its disgusting policy of non-collection of the household refuse of thousands of taxpayers who are boycotting the charge. The management is doing the dirty work of the increasingly discredited Fianna Fáil/Progressive Democrat Government in enforcing yet another stealth tax.

The Anti Bin Tax Campaigns in Fingal and in the greater Dublin area will not allow legal manoeuvres to reduce its effectiveness. There is enormous support for the Campaign because it represents a fight-back by ordinary people against a plethora of stealth taxes and increased prices by a Government that lied to them in its attempt to get back into office.

PAYE taxpayers also understand that if allowed to exist, the bin tax would rise relentlessly to be followed by water and other charges which could quickly reach €1,000 and upwards for each household. The protest movement will continue with the support of a substantial majority of ordinary working people

by curious Thu Sep 11, 2003 19:55

Kev, what is a "temporary" high court injunction mean? What happens if any of the 15 disobey?

by Kev Thu Sep 11, 2003 19:06

FINGAL COUNTY Council today obtained a temporary high court injunction against 15 anti-bin tax activists preventing them from "obstructing the collection of rubbish by the Council". Among those affected by the injunction are Socialist Party members Joe Higgins TD, and Cllrs. Clare Daly and Ruth Coppinger.

Coming Soon -

by caff Thu Sep 11, 2003 19:01

In every other county in Ireland people pay for their bins to be collected, we also pay for our water yearly. Dublin is the only county that dosn't. And this from the county that wanted to dump their waste in kill, what a bunch of freeloaders. You use wicklow and kildare water yet neither council gets money towards the upkeep of plants that provide it from authorities in dublin because they never get any money for it. Quit being selfish and stump up like everyone else has had to.

by GACH EILE Thu Sep 11, 2003 18:14

I am genuine and not trolling and understand the points that Andrew and Pat C made. Thank you. It is important to note that I am not critical of SP as such. I recognise that they have done a tremedous amount of work on the campaign and do lead it. My worry, and that what it is, is that the campaign at this point needs all the assitance it can get. I am just a regular republican looking to dig out. What I am trying to do is lend a hand, it just that I feel the door is being closed.

by pat c Thu Sep 11, 2003 17:31

Serious allegations have been made. This guy could be a troll or he could be genuine. I am putting it up to him.

And yes I do think he should make his way to the protests. But whether the allegations are true or not your dismissive attitude is not helpful either to the campaign or the sp.

by Anon Thu Sep 11, 2003 17:14

The above who have made comments regarding people being excluded from the protests against the bin tax in the Fingal area should go now to Castleknock, and Swords and participate in the blocking of the bin trucks and see for yourselves at first hand that no one is being excluded and in fact the opposite is the case that everyone is encouraged to participate.

by sp member (personal capacity) Thu Sep 11, 2003 17:06

to win the anti bin tax campaign we need to

Use every possible resource to back local activists.

Build the campaign in all areas.

Unite all forces who are prepared to fight this tax.

Well done Fingal. Keep up the fight.

by pat c Thu Sep 11, 2003 16:34

If what you say is true then please put your complaints in writing, bring them to a member of SF who is active in the campaign and get them to raise the matter at central campaign level.

Better still come along to the next activists meeting and raise the points yourself.

I have many criticisms of the SP but I am no going to use those differences to create disharmony in this campaign.

You may be genuine, you may be a troll. We have no way of knowing.

by Andrew Thu Sep 11, 2003 16:31

'Gach eile' I'd say something similar to your report as I said to the alleged remarks of a Labour Party counciller last week. What you say might be true but you give us no real evidence for it (beyond the remarks at the activists meeting which I also reported on). Who for instance did you ask to phone you (and who are you?). Right now like the Labour Party piece this seems to be a case of 'an anonymous person claims another anonymous person failed to phone them'.

Given the current situation when accepting your claims at face value can only raise tensions within the campaign it does seem to make sense to ask for evidence for them. Until this is provided we would be wise to address this issue only (well) after the council have been defeated.

Seriously folks, I'm sure the council PR crowd are reading these threads and right now they are being provided with a lot of information to 'ambush' interviewees with. There are reasons why sometimes people choose to remain anonymous but if doing so it would be much, much smarter to hold onto your accusations until after the immediate crisis is over. Likewise in terms of organisations trying to lay claim to victory - lets wait for the victory first.

by matt Thu Sep 11, 2003 16:18

Spot on Gach Eile. And as if anyone ever needed to be convinced of the truth of what people like Tourish et al have said on another thread regarding this group of self-appointed saviours of the working class. This attempt to exclude other activists in Fingal is typical of the sort of sectarian behaviour that would guarantee defeat if applied across the board. They are only interested in struggles and campaigns that they can dominate and promote their candidates through. If that is not possible they up sticks and leave and anyone involved in the anti-bin charge campaign in the City Council area where, unlike Fingal, there are well-established working class activists on the ground who wont wear them, will have witnessed the sudden disappearance of the SP once they realise there is nothing in it for them. They might do well actually to dwell upon something that the "renegade Kautsky", as he was described by Saint Leon, once said about the revolutionary struggle being each strike or whatever was happening at the time. Not part of some f***ing masterplan worked out by some "scientific socialist" astrologer. The issue here is to defeat the charge not to gain a few more deluded recruits for the revolutionary nucleus. I think all the non-Trots would agree on this. By the way, has anyone given any thought to why the first move was made here, rather than in Finglas, or Ballyfermot, or the North Inner City ?? hmmmm... whats that about weak links?

by Gach Eile Thu Sep 11, 2003 15:09

With regards to the Fingal campaign, it has been made clear that the SP want to do this alone. At a meeting in the Teachers Club on monday, it was stated that "Joe (Higgins) did nto want any assistance as they have it under control". I am a SF member and living in Fingal in an area that we have no organisation. The local SP know me and my politics and I have tried numerous times to get involved with the campaign only for each time to be dicked around. This week I rang, volunteered my time to take part in blockades and as usual was fobbed off with "yeah we will ring you to let you know". They always do the "yeah we will ring you....." whenever I have tried to find out meetings times etc.

In my opinion the SP want to run this alone in Fingal as they are looking at their template of Joe Higgins and the water charges and will apply that to Clare Daly and the bin charges. I think thats fine as they have done the work in the area. But why pretend and decieve people for so long that the Fingal anti bin tax campaign is non aligned or independent. After all a lot of money has been given to the campaign by non aligned people. Good luck to the SP on their going alone plan but I hope for all of us that their campaign does not implode due to the pressure of relying on so few people to do so much work.

by Chekov Thu Sep 11, 2003 14:54

Fair play to all the Fingal activists.

by No Bin Tax - SP (personal capacity) Thu Sep 11, 2003 14:52

Four bin trucks are under blockade today, in North Dublin and Castleknock. Two of the other trucks have given up and returned to depot.

Only two other trucks are operating and they are being slowed by moving protests.

by John - ISN Personal view Thu Sep 11, 2003 14:39

The Labour Party are hoping to cash in on the Anti Bin Charges Campaign in the Local Election by muttering that they are opposed to double taxation. However I believe that they have supported charges in various councils around Ireland. None of the representatives or members are involved in the campaign (to my knowledge) and I suggest that campaigners make this clear in the course of the campaign.

by Joe Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:21

There is some PD senator (Morrisey) giving out about it on Pat Kenny He claims one dozen at picket and that 90% have paid in that area (one of the wealthier Dublin suburbs).

by ec Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:53

btw. The photo for the original report is from the same struggle site.

by green sympathiser Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:39

The green policy if I'm correct is to support weight or volume related charges as in Fingal where its a tag system and to opposed fixed annual charges as in the Corpo area. In my humble opinion the most rational way to implement the polluter pays principle. So naturally they were not part of the protest.

by sp member (personal capacity) Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:35

Keep united, discuss the tactics and argue about the politics but dont let the trolls devide and damage this struggle.

Keep fighting.

by Andrew Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:29

The various troll comments here from people appearing to be members of the SP (but who could be fake) are not helpful. If it is true that the SP are the ONLY organisers in Fingal then this is a serious weakness of the campaign there rather then something to boast about (particularly in public). It gives the media a rather obvious stick to beat the Fingal campaign with, one Joe Duffy was happy to use yesterday.

In terms of people at protests the WSM has no members in the Fingal area and at the all Dublin activists meeting Monday the Fingal reps said there was no need for activists to come in from other areas. We respected this. We have been active where we live or where a specific request has gone out for 'outside' support. There were half a dozen of us for instance at the Grangegormon depot lobby this morning (report to follow) and one of our newer members were intending to be at Rathmines. Tomorrow we will be taking part in solidarity blocades in the Cabra area.

by matt Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:22

One would assume that the SP would have some presence in the only part of the country where they have (2) elected representatives.

by pat c Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:12

I have just come from the Collins Ave Depot, 30 people were on the picket. SF, SWP, WCA, ISN, independents and SP members were there.

This is a united campaign. No one group should try and take credit for whats being acheived.

It is likely that DCC will start to implement their no collection policy next Monday. After the blockade ended at 8 am, activists present agreed that on Mondat there would be both a picket on the depot and action in the estates to block trucks that were not collecting all bins.

by Moi Thu Sep 11, 2003 04:11

Because you did not see the "usual suspects" selling their papers does not mean that they were not there. "Activists" do not go around wearing a big sign saying "activist". The action was not the property of any one political grouping, rather it was a popular action by the general public, and is an indication of a deeper resentment against the gangsters and incompetents who are running the country.
It is as much a protest against how the cards are being stacked against the less well off, while the rich continue to get preferential treatment.

by sp - sp Thu Sep 11, 2003 01:51

Simply the difference is that the tactic of direct action in this case is its essential to victory, in shannon without widespread support we believed it could work against us. Also the direct action now involves all local communities where the action in shannon was substitution by a few activists. Direct action is a tactic that should be used for victory or propaganda, using direct action for one thing and not another doesn't mean one is more right. Thats not to rule out direct action in shannon but to do it and make it work.

by Manky Minister For The Environment - bin charges campaign Thu Sep 11, 2003 01:07

The blockades today were great, but I have a question for a lot of activists:

Where were you?

The Socialist Party were everywhere. more of them than I thought existed to be honest. I didn't see a single person from any other political group all day. Nobody representing Sinn Fein, nobody from the SWP, no anarchists. No Labour or Greens.

Its possible that I just didn't see these other groups. the blockades were scattered over a big area but there should have been some sign of you?

by No Bin Tax - SP (personal capacity) Thu Sep 11, 2003 00:20

Large street meetings (involving hundreds of people) in the Blanchardstown area have decided to let the last trucks return to depot just before ten tonight.

The residents agreed to continue the struggle for as long as it takes to force the Council to back down. Tomorrow the council will send the trucks out on extra routes. They too will be blockaded if an attempt is made to leave behind the bins of non-payers.

by sp member (personal capacity) Wed Sep 10, 2003 23:33

Today the people sent out a clear and loud message, no bin tax hear. Well done to ALL involved.

by Revolver Wed Sep 10, 2003 22:10

Why are the Socialist Party prepared to be so strong in their action when it comes to bin taxes, but not the war in Iraq? Following the logic that the SP went by over Shannon, the action has to come from the workers etc, surely they should be waiting for the bin workers to go on strike?

Can someone please tell me why the lives of the Iraqi people are less important than a bin charge for Irish people? Indeed, why's the bin tax the most pressing issue for Irish activists? Why not the electricity charges, for example - the State is losing control over this service which is as important for hygiene and safety at home, why not "Axe the Power Tax"?

by Mick - Fingal Wed Sep 10, 2003 21:40

Hello everybody, I am involved in the anti-bin tax campaign in fingal and I was proud of the work today. The Socialist Party have earned my respect, although I am a Sinn Fein voter I must say they put up a good show, an example for all non-direct action parties.

by Kev Wed Sep 10, 2003 20:33

Fingal Co Council refuse collections had to be abandoned this afternoon after they were significantly disrupted by anti-bin tax protesters.

The protesters are continuing to block three refuse trucks in Blanchardstown, north Dublin.

A further seven have now been allowed by protesters in Blanchardstown and Portmarnock to return to their depot.

The Director of Services in Fingal's Environmental Department said there would be no more refuse collections today and appealed to protesters to allow all remaining trucks to return to base.

Earlier, gardaí in north Dublin took the names of protestors who were trying to prevent refuse lorries from collecting waste.

The protestors were told they will be prosecuted.

The protests follow today's announcement that householders who have not paid their waste charges will no longer have their rubbish collected.

-------------------------------------------
Other coverage:

Irish Times Website: ANTI-BIN CHARGES campaigners have mounted blockades in Dublin today as Fingal Council began collecting refuse only from households which have paid for the service.

The protest group, Fingal Anti Bin Tax Campaign (FABTC), said routes had been "hemmed in by protesting residents".

A spokeswoman for the group told ireland.com three trucks had been stopped in Portmarnock for several hours and another four in Blanchardstown.

A spokeswoman for Fingal County Council said the protests were concentrated in the Blanchardstown and in Portmarnock, but other areas were experiencing a normal service.

The protesters are only blocking the trucks where they refuse to collect a non-tagged bin.

"The routes will not be allowed proceed unless all taxpayers' bins are collected. The action will continue on an organised basis every day until the council of the Government changes its way," Mr Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party said at a press conference yesterday.

It has been reported that gardaí have accompanied trucks on some routes and a number of protesters have had their names taken by officers.

However, a Garda spokesman said he was not aware of any public order problems during the protests this morning.

FABTC says rubbish could begin to build up leading to illegal dumping, if the situation continues. They say if the campaign runs for several weeks then rubbish could be dropped outside Fingal Co Co offices in O'Connell Street.

Further protests are likely later this week when collections take place in other towns within the Fingal County Council area.
-----------------------------------------

Irish Examiner Website: Opponents of the bin tax in Dublin have vowed to step up their campaign against the tax if Fingal County Council presses ahead with the non-collection of bins.

The council has ordered binmen not to collect rubbish from households that are refusing to pay the tax in five suburbs in north and west Dublin. The Anti-Bin Tax Campaign has urged residents to blockade estates with their bins and to refuse to allow the binmen to leave until they have collected all the rubbish.

by Come on Wed Sep 10, 2003 19:58

Just to say just because someone criticises the anarchists it doesn't automatically make them an SP member. Don't bite every time.

And for a point of information: Many groups were involved in defeating the water charges, but in particular the SP. This can't be denied. But people power was the real victor. But also remember that it is the SP who is organising the struggle at the moment in Fingal. No one else. So lets have some perspective.

by Anthony Wed Sep 10, 2003 19:13

It's quite possible that it isn't an SP suporter but hoping that people will jump to such a conclusion and start another flame war to do its job for it.

by Chekov Wed Sep 10, 2003 18:20

There is nothing progressive about ordinary people paying more taxes. The PAYE workers of Ireland already pay a shocking proportion of all tax, the highest of any EU country, while the corporation tax and capital gains taxes are constantly cut.

Furthermore, the trend in global capitalism is to replace 'progressive' taxes (like income tax) with flat-rate taxes (like VAT, service charges, etc) to further shift the taxation burden from rich to poor. This is the policy advocated by the world bank, IMF, WTO and virtually all of the institutions of global capitalism.

The notion that higher taxes are progressive is simplistic and, in today's climate of global capitalism, just plain ignorant. If the government was to increase capital gains tax, corporation tax, or even the rates of income tax in the upper bands, I'd say that not a single member of the bin taxes campaign would have a bad word to say about it. It's not a question of how much tax, it's who pays the tax. At the moment Ireland is one of the worst countries in the world for 'regressive' taxation. The vast majority of tax is paid for by less well off people, while the rich often don't have to pay any tax at all. Don't you remember the recent report that revealed that the richest 200 people in Ireland paid an average of 5% tax a year on their incomes?

by George W Wed Sep 10, 2003 18:01

"Ultimately our fight is with the City manager and with the bean counters and government who are pushing us towards paying more and more in these stealthy double taxes."

Wow.. are y'all campaigning to be part of the Republican party? Your "down with taxes" rant fits in perfectly with their position! I mean, ultimately taxes pay for "public services", which is just another word for "communism"!!!

Best of wishes avoiding all taxation,

George

by Cynic Wed Sep 10, 2003 14:30

Its just another SP Troll. They want everyone to believe that they are the only people fighting the bin charges.

by David Wed Sep 10, 2003 14:27

I haven't noticed any anarchists saying people should not blockade the bin trucks.
The opposite really.

by Andrew Wed Sep 10, 2003 14:25

Anarchists have been arguing for community blockades within the campaign and in Workers Solidarity. See for instance http://struggle.ws/wsm/ws/2003/ws76/bintaxDA.html

"We must send out the message that we intend for every truck to pick up all the rubbish on their bin run. The Council must understand this, and the government must understand it. If non-collection is attempted, trucks will be blockaded into our estates until everyone's bin is emptied."

If your going to trot out party dogma please do at least 5 minutes research first! And really you'd be better saving it for a better time.

by tactician Wed Sep 10, 2003 14:15

Anarchists are always banging on about 'empowering people through direct action' yet they are adopting elitism when it come to bin tax direct action.

the best direct action, in terms of empowerment an what is needed to beat bin tax, is blockading trucks in estates.

I hope that blockades will be organised as in Fingal.

by Chekov Wed Sep 10, 2003 14:02

I think that's on Monday to be precise.