Carry On up the 'Gorman

by Janus Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:31

First of all, I'm going to be on this march.

I have to say that because I'm also going to make a criticism of it and it's vital on Indymedia to make a couple of genuflections at sacred cows before you're allowed have an opinion.

I think the march idea is an excellent one, but I question the timing, and only the timing.

We had a big protest a couple of weeks ago for Joe and Claire. We had another good one last night, now we're to have another one tonight, there's at least one more planned for Saturday week.

As I said, I'll be on the march tonight, but do people think we're not in danger of march/rally fatigue for want of a better way of putting it? If the size of the march is smaller than last nights it will be used against the campaign by the media.

It reminds me of the arguments over anti-war marches. Some people criticised the IAWM for refusing to contemplate anything more than more and more marches around Dublin, on a weekly basis at one point, with the result that numbers stadily declined.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there'll be an excellent turnout tonight, but I can't help but wonder if a march organised on such short notice, with so little advance advertising might be a wee bit of a mistake.

As I said, not against the idea of the march, just reckon that maybe doing it at the start of next week might have been a better idea. Since it's called, everyone should try and turnout to it, but maybe it shouldn't have been called.

by Joe Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:52

Janus your right that there is little point marching around in circles until we collapse. However the protest is taking place at the depot that the bin trucks that leave to do the O'Connell st/Henry st rubbish collection will be leaving from. If the numbers of protesters are sufficent then they may not be able to leave and the commercial heart of the capital will wake up on Friday morning to piles of rubbish.

The announcement on indymedia is a little late but since the steering committee meeting on Monday the word should have spread to local groups around the city and there has been door to door leafletting and last nights march have already been leafletted. I'd expect that far more people would turn up because of this then because of an announcement on indymedia.

Personally I'd have been happier with more time but as explained above the SP put a lot of pressure on to bring the date forward because of Fingals need for solidarity actions. With a bit of effort sufficent numbers can be got there, it will also be the first occasion for activists across the city to come together for something more direct then a march.

by Janus Wed Oct 01, 2003 14:04

Have to admit I hadn't paid close enough attention to the first post to realise the implications of preventing them leaving the depot and stopping the commerical collections.

I still think it's a little soon but certainly if it could be pulled off the effect would be powerful.

by kokomero Wed Oct 01, 2003 17:50

It strikes me that people are having to put their personal liberty at risk in protests to date.

Obviously this is intended as a deterrent and not everybody feels strongly enough to go to prison to prove their point, and the authorities are counting on this.

I've been thinking and this is an alternate strategy I came up with ...

How about super-gluing bins due for collection closed ... this would secure the objective of obstructing collection without having to physically blockade trucks with consequent risk of arrest?

This wont work on commercial bins but it will work on domestic plastic bins. At the very least it will severely delay collection which is probably what's being achieved at the moment.

The cops will not be able to arrest you as you are off causing mayhem elsewhere, or alternately you can stick around with placards and watch the ensuing fun from a safe distance when they discover they cant open the bins for collection.

by Chekov Wed Oct 01, 2003 18:10

Numbers. If we can get 100 people out on a blockade, it's much less likely that people will be afraid of arrest. 100 names taken; 100 people dragged into the high court; not exactly what the government wants to see on the news.

To some extent that's the thinking behind the Grangegorman protest. The local solidarity blockades have been very good but only a couple have had sufficent numbers to give people enough 'safety in numbers' to give their names to the police. Today in Finglas was a good example - fair play to those involved. The lesson is that if enough people come along then that will give everybody confidence to stand up to the state. However, as far as I know, the Grangegorman protest is not necessarily going to be a blockade. If there is only a small turnout, there is no point in being a martyr and I'd advise people to do nothing that might get them dragged up to the high court.

by kokomero Wed Oct 01, 2003 18:18

It is entirely feasible for a few protesters to each glue hundreds of bins closed in a hour or so during the night when the bins are left out for collection the next day.

The glue blockades locally allowing protesters to act globally.

by Mags - WCA Wed Oct 01, 2003 20:01

that we want them to collect ALL the bins, not leave some (or all) of them lying around full.

This point is being lost in the media, deliberately or otherwise. We are obstructing the lorries because they are refusing to collect ALL the bins.

I can't see how the supergluing will get this point across.

by axe the bin taxe Wed Oct 01, 2003 22:58

The fact is OK it would be better to have hundreds at each blockcade bu the fact is we need to disrupt the service if all bins are not being collected and creative methods to do this should be employed . Super glue whatever as longs as it WORKS. They are using unfair tactics by changing the law to suit them and then removing the democratic power of our councillers to decide the management of our city

by anti bin taxer Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:21

the blockade of the Swords 'watery lane' depot which services all of Fingal is still unoperational because of protest at the gate which is stoppiong trucks from leaving.

by conor (wsm personal capacity) Thu Oct 02, 2003 13:19

This is brilliant - is it still on? Fingal respect as ever

- just wondering was it due to large numbers there or are the binmen them selves respecting the pickets or both?
- one of the men who came to the Ballybrack meeting said they WOULDN'T pass a picket on the depot but I had heard the IMPACT lads in Fingal had been sold the line that they had to implement non collection to PREVENT privitisation (I know seems ridiculous!)

- so just curious

Conor

by observer Thu Oct 02, 2003 14:24

It's actually pretty obvious. It's very easy for private collectors to leave particular bins behind and that's the way it works in most of the country. And in most of the country they have bin charges. If the publicly run service is made impossible to operate the local authorities will be very likely to simply privatise it and get rid of the problem.

by Leon Thu Oct 02, 2003 14:37

//How does this protest contribute to building a mass movement?
//
//Surely the purpose of all protests must be to radicalise people. The individual issue is irrelvant.
//
//Large amounts of uncollected rubbish will piss people off and if they blame the bin tax protesters this will weaken the movement.
//
//Lets see the bigger picture.
//
//Superglue boy. The bin tax is bad because we will have to pay for a service that should be paid for through general taxation.
//In other words we are against the introduction of regressive taxes.
//Will supergluing people//s bins shut encourage them to become involved or alienate them?
//
//Also how are people supposed to attend a 5PM protest?

//Don't pay the bin tax.

by Degenerate Thu Oct 02, 2003 15:02

I left my universal translator at home today.
Any chance you can explain wtf you are talking about.

by P1 - None Thu Oct 02, 2003 16:21

It is incredible to see that there are still people who believe the protests will directly lead to the privatisation of this public service!!!
From an earlier contributor we get:
"If the publicly run service is made impossible to operate the local authorities will be very likely to simply privatise it and get rid of the problem."
For a public service to be privatised it is first necessary to impose acceptance of a regressive method of payment for that service, i.e., a poll tax/flat fee. Once that is achieved the fee needs to be increased to a level that will guarantee profitability for a private owner. These 2 objectives cannot be achieved in the face of determined public opposition although the second is easier if the battle for the first is lost.
Opposition to the bin tax includes a demand for public services to remain in public ownership and for those services to be paid for according to each persons ability to pay - a progressive method of payment.
How that public service operates, who operates it, what environmental policies it adopts, is a matter for public debate and democratic control. It cannot and should not be entrusted to persons/groups motivated by private greed.

by Andrew Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:37

Grange Gorman blockade successful

Last nights blockade of the Grange Gorman bin truck depot was a success with no truck managing to leave during the three-hour blockade. These were the trucks that were to do the rubbish pick-up in the shopping areas of the city centre. Read on at http://struggle.ws/wsm/news/2003/grangegormanOCT2.html