Pro-agreement unionists and republicans still out number anti-agreement paisleyites

by anon Mon Dec 01, 2003 13:28

yeah a mandate of 75% of the population?! not that many voted only 60%of electorate, which means only a minority actually support agreement, 45%of electorate voted for pro-agreement candidates. 55% didnt vote or voted against agreement, sorry to bring you back to reality!
im sure a few protestants voted for sf and sdlp, real significance is sf are the biggest constitutional nationalist party now. internally i think the sdlp may have collapsed, they couldnt get canvassers out across the north.

by tahoma Mon Dec 01, 2003 13:36

The main reason for the low turnout was the fact that a large chunk of the population are completely turned off by the sectarian politics in the North. All 4 main parties have very similar policies on the real issues, they all support a neo liberal programme for government.

by Your'e wondering now Mon Dec 01, 2003 13:45

Taking your figures 60% of the population voted, giving a 40% mandate to Pro-Good Friday agreement political parties, which means that whatever way you look at it, the Anti-Good Friday agreement unionist parties only got 20%, of the mandate.
This still puts Anti-agreement unionists in the minority compared with the greater majority of Pro agreement Unionists and republicans combined.
The DUP anti agreement unionists are the majority within the unionist block, but the minority within the combined Pro agreement unionist and republican block. If you wish to ignore half the northern Ireland catholic population which is pro agreement, then like the Brit government has done, you could choose to pretend that anti agreement dissent is on the rise, as an excuse to renegoiate and get out of fulfilling the Good Friday agreement.

by Jim Monaghan Mon Dec 01, 2003 15:08

Direct rule is here for a long time. This is not a problem for Imperialism. That the local politicians are "unable" or unwilling to administer British rule in the North is not a problem. The British ministers do not want to go back to the back benchs of Westminister.
Sinn Fein loste a seat due to one of it's ministers being caught closing a hospital because she was administerinig within the constraints of British rule. She had no choice as a "minister" and rather than the real rulers getting the blame, Sinn Fein did.
Sinn Fein gave away a seat in Belfast because it targeted the SDLP and the DUP caught them out.
Let us hope that the claptrap about saving "David" Trimble is at an end.I suppose it will be replaced by nonsense about the nice Peter Robinson, Nigel Dodds and Little Ian.
I think the DUP are sincere bigots who belive in keeping the "Taigs" especially Sinn Fein in their place. They are not socalled pragmatists. Politicians down here who would and have sold their Mothers for a Ministerial Merc tend to think the same holds up there. The DUP are unadulterated bigots and to pretend otherwise is foolish.Chasing afer the DUP is useless. Standing up to them is the only way. Garvaghy showed that this is the only way. Compromise with the bigots is only about where you will be kicked by the jackboot.This is a sad reality and no amount of wishful thinking will change it.3 arms decomms and the end of Articles 2 and 3 got sweet damn all.In case anyone thinks it I beleive that the ceasefire was a necessity and the socalled dissidents offer nothing.
Interesing that McCanns SEA alliance is basically a Republican thing in the broad sense. The transfers went Sinn Fein. The audience for Socialism is mainly amongst the oppressed Nationalists. A Socialist based Republicanism would offer a way out of the morass. The IRSP, alas, combines the worst of Republicanism with the rhetoric of Socialism as a veneer. Sinn Fein has replaced Militarism with the same pro coalition approach of the Labour Party. Coalitions with bourgeois parties are not about real change but about getting a Ministerial merc.Perhaps the Left of Sinn Fein can persuade the majority to move to the Left, giving up the cosiness that has developed between tham and American, British and Irish rightwing forces.

by Robert Corr Mon Dec 01, 2003 15:37 Perth, Australia

Anon. wrote, "yeah a mandate of 75% of the population?! not that many voted only 60%of electorate, which means only a minority actually support agreement, 45%of electorate voted for pro-agreement candidates. 55% didnt vote or voted against agreement, sorry to bring you back to reality!"

What is it they say about lies, damned lies and statistics? If we turn it around but follow your logic, this is what we get:

"yeah a mandate of 25% of the population?! not that many voted only 60% of electorate, which means only a minority actually oppose agreement, 15% of electorate voted for anti-agreement candidates. 85% didn't vote or voted against agreement, sorry to bring you back to reality!"

So according to your logic, support for the agreement is even stronger!

But really, we don't know why some people didn't vote. They may support or oppose the agreement, but we just don't know.

(No wonder you're anonymous. I wouldn't put my name to such a ridiculous comment, either.)

by Agnes Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:42

Yes the DUP are plain, unadulterated sectarian bigots, with no social policies whatsoever, whose main motivation in the political arena, is greed, for social status/power/ranches in the USA and murderous petty tribal sectarian jealousies.

The DUP hate catholics, socialists and the protestant/catholic poor/working class. Which is why it is a shame that Diane Dodds is now supposed to be representing the working class protestant people of the shankill.

When we look at the mainstream media smear campaign against the PUP and Billy hutchinson, we find that the cards were indeed stacked electorally against the PUP.

Raymond McCord's senior's slanderous personal vendetta against the PUP and the UVF on behalf of his british army informant FRU son.
The loyalist murder of a Lisburn catholic man, the loyalist paramilitaries behind the murder, were LVF bigots closely associated with the DUP/anti-agreement unionist climate in Lisburn. Not forgetting the DUP's Reverend William McCrea sharing an LVF platform with sectarian murderer king rat Billy Wright.

The stage managed DUP supporters heckling and hijacking of David Trimble on the Shankill road. The old women/orange lil bigot battleaxe who accosted Mr Trimble was bused in from Portadown, to pretend to airing the views of the people of the Shankill road. As if the people of the shankill were that backward, ill mannered, unchristian and bigoted. Unfortunately with the nature of things here, people can get swept up in a tidal wave of bigotry, it just takes one big mouth to start sectarian slobbering.

The disastrous punishment beating of notorious bully thug John Allen. All contributed to a negative public perception of UVF paramilitaries and their political wing allowing Diane Dodds to slither her way into the electoral hearts of the shankill.

by Jim Monaghan Tue Dec 02, 2003 14:56

I think you should take a close look at Mr Hutchinson before you commit to his fan club. The UVF were not that much better than their Loyalist rivals. Ervine is just a thin veneer over what is a sectarian organisation. The voters preferred the much better at covering it up DUP to the PUP.Paisley was always out of town when the pogroms he inspired happened. Gusty Spence was right about him. But being right about Paisley is is a long way from becoming non sectarian. The bigots up at Holy Cross decide on the PUP tune.