What To Do About 'anarchist menace' Corporate Journalists?

international | summit mobilisations | opinion/analysis

Tuesday March 23, 2004 14:05

by Peter Sutherland's Nemesis

SundayMirror 'Eire Edition' cultivates climate of acceptability of state repression of demonstrators

"Garda Inspector Ray McHugh revealed the gardai are being advised by police forces around the globe on how to beat the [May 1st]anarchist menace." - KEN MURRAY Sunday Mirror, March 21, 2004.
I wonder is it possible that someone (!) who has the time to work with the Indymedia Collective Editorial Team could assign themselves the task of collecting the names and 'journalism' of outrageous anti-democratic no-research-necessary corporate-nonsense journalists for the purpose of inviting them to a debate in public on the theme of Journalism And Democracy.

The reason I ask this is that if the climate of fear and violence that the likes of this Sunday Mirror article generates is allowed to go uncontested in the public arena [other than on this site] then it increases the chances of us ending up with people being shot dead by the state Gothenburg and Genoa style.

In this context this article [reprinted in full below because the Irish edition has no web version to link to] strongly suggests that the 'anarchist menace', with the help of Indymedia users, will wreck havoc and violence on Dublin on May 1st and because of the public relations disaster of Mayday RTS 2002, then the Guards will not be able to clamp down as hard as they would like to and should. This dishonest and anti-democratic analysis contrasts dramatically with the National Union of Journalists piece [weblink reposted here: http://www.nuj.org.uk/inner.php?docid=260&PHPSESSID=3c4ac8a4c3391d543dbf28d4e8274de5 ] which condemns the Garda Riot of Mayday '02 and lambastes the Gardai for attacking and arresting and charging one of THEIR NUJ card carrying journalists. The NUJ makes the point that "Without a media presence it is likely that the shameful episode would have been swept under the carpet and the claims of the protestors discredited. "

Anyway, let us please try to think of ways to bring these 'journalists' like Murray out into the open, to stand in public and to debate and stand over their 'journalism' -- to look the pubic in the eye and answer the accusation that their 'journalism' ends up making it publicly acceptable and more likely that the state 'security' forces will attack peaceful protestors and criminalise the global justice movement.

********************************

Sunday Mirror, March 21, 2004, Sunday, SECTION: Eire Edition; NEWS.

HEADLINE: THE COPS WILL HAVE THEIR WORK CUT OUT FOR THEM. MAY DAY IS OURS;
EXCLUSIVE ANARCHISTS PLAN TO BRING ANTI-GLOBALISATION MAYHEM TO
BYLINE: KEN MURRAY
HIGHLIGHT:
ZURICH 2002; GENOA 2001; PRAGUE 2000; SEATTLE 1999; LONDON 2001

BODY:
THE Government fears anti-globalisation activists will turn May Day in Dublin into MAYHEM.
More than 10,000 anarchists from across the globe will descend on the capital to protest against EU enlargement on May 1st.
The vicious thugs chose Dublin for their annual May Day protest because Ireland holds the EU presidency.
But Government insiders fear the protests will end in mass violence and rioting - and admit they are almost POWERLESS to stop it.
Today the Irish Sunday Mirror exclusively reveals the issue has been brought up at Cabinet meetings to try to find a solution to the fears of May Day madness.
One Cabinet minister revealed he fears the riots will destroy Ireland's international image at the height of the EU presidency.

He said: "It's been brought to our attention that a network of anarchists opposed to globalisation are communicating with each other and are planning a hostile protest in Dublin to mark what could be the proudest day in Europe since the end of World War Two in 1945.
"In fact, I'm surprised the media haven't made a bigger issue of this before now."
The source added: "Our fear is that we could be overwhelmed by the number of protestors coming in.
"The last time there was anything like this was during Republican protests at the British Embassy during the hunger strikes more than 20 years ago.
"But this threatens to be much larger. We are monitoring the situation closely."

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern plans to use May 1 as an official "Day of Welcomes" to welcome the 10 new states joining the EU.
The leaders of the 25 EU nations will be in Dublin on May 1 - the first time the heads of all the member states will meet face to face.
A Government spokesman said: "The 25 different heads of state will be in Dublin on that day.
"The celebrations will start in Farmleigh House in the Phoenix Park and later they will be going to Aras an Uachtaran for the official signing of the new enlargement proclimation."
MAY 1 is traditionally celebrated around the world as workers' day.
The Dublin Council of Trade Unions agreed to cancel its annual march in honour of the Day of Welcome - but anti-globalisation groups refused.

Instead they plan to hijack the celebrations with massive protest marches Government insiders fear will erupt into violence and chaos.
One chilling message left on activist website www.indymedia.ie vows the protests will go ahead - whether the Government likes it or not.
It said: "So what if Bertie et al are having a knees up in Dublin castle, that is their f***ing problem.
"It is May Day and the workers are entitled to a protest. I say f*** the scab leaders, they are not the trade union movement, we are!
"We are having our May Day demo regardless if Begg, O'Flaherty and the other FF scabs are there or not."
Hundreds of websites have sprung up dedicated to planning the protest - and begging foreign activists to take part.

One site, www.geocities.com/eufortress even offers to find accommodation for visiting members. It said: "We have set up a contact email address for accommodation.
"If you or your group are intending on coming to Ireland for May Day or during the EU presidency then please get in touch as soon as possible.
"We are inviting all people who share our ideas and beliefs to come to Ireland during the six month presidency of the EU and help us in our struggle against capitalism.
"We are inviting people from all over Europe and the World to join us in Dublin on May Day to show our leaders that their agenda for EU integration, driven by the wealthy and powerful will face resistance."
UK anarchists are planning a mass invasion of Dublin for the Mayday riots.
A British group suspected of having links with Kurdish terrorists in Turkey uses its web site to drum up support.
The website, www.wombles.org, asks followers to travel to Dublin.
It said: "Let's come together and create a total resistance against the de-humanising nothingness of capitalist society.
"Let's go to Dublin on May Day."
Another British-based website echoes the same chilling message.
It said: "We see Dublin as an important step to galvanise the movements against capitalist globalisation, against the permanent global war of capital and state institutions of the working class, unemployed and peasants."

OTHER web activists openly admit they plan to use violence against the Gardai.
Sick thugs on Irish website www.indymedia.ie boasted of their plans to attack Garda officers.
One said: "Ha, ha, bring it on! The cops are gonna have their work cut out for them - May Day is ours!"
Another calling himself "garda" demanded readers pelt fellow officers with cans of booze. He said: "Bring it on and make sure if you're going to throw stuff at us it's something interesting and not cans of Dutch Gold."
Hundreds of sites have sprung up offering advice on how to fight the police.
Anarchist website www.radio4.org/ aia/act even tells protestors the best way to throw missiles to ensure they do maximum damage to gardai.
It said: "If you want to throw do it defensively, strategically and en mass - a constant hail of debris creates 'sterile areas' into which the police don't want to go, thus keeping them at arms length."

The site has a section on de-arresting, telling users the best way to wrestle captured comrades away from arresting officers.
It said: "The best time to do this is as soon as the snatch has happened. You need a group who know how to break grips and some people to act as blockers.
"Once you've got your person back all link arms and move off into the crowd, the police may try to snatch back or arrest one of the de-arresters."
Garda Inspector Ray McHugh revealed the gardai are being advised by police forces around the globe on how to beat the anarchist menace.
He insisted proper plans are in place to ensure the marches pass off peacefully.
He said: "Gardai work closely with their colleagues throughout Europe and the rest of the World via Europol and Interpol.
"All intelligence reports are shared and thoroughly evaluated as part of an ongoing process.
"We will be putting in place an operation for upcoming events commensurate with the perceived policing requirements as they exist at the particular time."

But our Government source claimed gardai will be forced to treat protestors with kid gloves.
He said: "The Gardai suffered PR damage some years back when the Reclaim the Streets march went horribly wrong."
ANGRY business leaders slammed the protestors for planning to destroy Ireland's good name at the height of the EU presidency.
Dublin Chamber of Commerce boss Declan Martin said May 1 is an opportunity to sell Ireland to the world and stressed that the events on the day must run without a hitch.
He said: "We need to project a very positive image of Dublin to a worldwide audience.
"If the images that go around the World on global TV show Dublin as a place where the Gardai are doing battle with anti globalisation protestors, it will damage Ireland's image."
But socialist TD Joe Higgins insists the protests will be peacefull. He said: "Should any small minority attempt to provoke a violent clash, it would be counter-productive."
Tens of millions of dollars in damage was caused when anti-globalisation protestors fought with riot police and wrecked properties during 'The Battle of Seattle' in the US at the World Trade Organisation talks in December 1999.
Nine months later 5,000 anti-globalisation protestors fired petrol bombs and cobblestones in a major violent riot in the Czech capital Prague close to the Summit of the International Monetary Fund.
Tear gas and water cannon were used to force back a breakaway group of activists that attempted to reach the summit venue.

Protestors struck again in July 2001 causing further costly damage when they rioted with Italian Police in Genoa during a G8 Summit of the richest Nations in the World.

******************************************
http://www.nuj.org.uk/inner.php?docid=260&PHPSESSID=3c4ac8a4c3391d543dbf28d4e8274de5

NUJ alarm at attack on photographer

The NUJ in Ireland
May 9 2002

The NUJ in Ireland is to seek a meeting with senior Garda management in the wake of the assault on an Irish Independent photographer last Monday.

The union also wants the Garda Siochana covered by the Freedom of Information Act.

NUJ member Stephen Humphreys was assaulted by Gardai while taking photographs at a Reclaim the Street protest in Dublin. He has been charged with public order offences, which he will vigorously contest. He is being supported by his employer, Independent News and Media.

NUJ Irish Secretary Eoin Ronayne said: "The NUJ is deeply disturbed by the treatment of Mr Humphreys. This was an appalling attack, which strikes at the core of democracy. It is indeed fortunate that journalists and photographers were present on Monday to witness the unacceptable behaviour of some Gardai.

"Without a media presence it is likely that the shameful episode would have been swept under the carpet and the claims of the protestors discredited. "

Eoin Ronayne said the union has been concerned for some time at the disregard shown by some members of the Garda Siochana to journalists presenting the NUJ Press Card. "It is vital that the integrity of the card be respected," he said.

Mary Maher, Cathaoirleach (chair) of the Irish Executive Council, said it was ironic that three days after World Press Freedom Day working journalists should find themselves attacked by people charged with protecting democracy. "Those involved in Monday’s attack on peaceful protestors do no credit to their colleagues and bring shame on the force," she said.

Irish Organiser Seamus Dooley said the NUJ has been campaigning for some time to have the Garda Siochana brought within the remit of the Freedom of Information Act and recent developments strengthened the case for extending the Act.

"Law abiding gardai have nothing to fear from such a move. The Army is covered by the Act and this has posed no threat to the security of the State. A transparent, accountable police force would be in the interest of all citizens," he said.
********************************

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Comments (56 of 56)

OOh, 10,000 protestors coming?

by David

Tue Mar 23, 2004 14:57

brilliant.

and it must be true because t's been printed in a national newspaper! yay

Must have a look for those hundreds of websites that are springing up to organise for may.

& to whom would you sell Ireland?

by rts!

Tue Mar 23, 2004 15:53

on Mayday mister Dublin Chamber of Commerce boss Declan Martin?

old nuj article

by wanderer

Tue Mar 23, 2004 16:34

god thats old where did ya find that?

nobody seems to want to the touch the rts thing anymore?

Police briefing etc

by Joe

Tue Mar 23, 2004 16:43

There are some giveaways here that this journalist is being fed by the same secret police sources that IoS was using. The secret police in the aim to spread panic have come up with a number of inventions including the '10,000 anarchists' and the 'link with Kurdish terrorists'. The last one is really laughable, akin to claming that McDowell has links with the IRA because he has been in the same room as SF TD's.

The quotes are very interesting because although the 'journalist' has inserted the word 'chilling' in front of them they are mostly nothing of the sort. The best 'chilling' quote they could find as an indymedia comment was
"So what if Bertie et al are having a knees up in Dublin castle, that is their f***ing problem.
"It is May Day and the workers are entitled to a protest. I say f*** the scab leaders, they are not the trade union movement, we are!
"We are having our May Day demo regardless if Begg, O'Flaherty and the other FF scabs are there or not."

This is laughable.

Likewise there is nothing 'chilling' about "We see Dublin as an important step to galvanise the movements against capitalist globalisation, against the permanent global war of capital and state institutions of the working class, unemployed and peasants."

The one real riot quote from the web in fact has nothing to do with Mayday at all. They misprint the URL to make it harder for their readers to discover this but when you go to http://www.radio4all.org/aia/act_protests.html you discover these quotes are listed from a very general guide on a US website. There is no mention of Dublin in it at all.

Finally you might wonder what they hope to achieve by such crap. One obvious thing is to create an excuse for a police riot. This has been going on for some time. But the other reason is to try and create a 'good protester - bad protester' divide in the public mind which can be used to target some of those organising protests.

And what do you know just as they came to heel for March1st last year so the same 'spokespeople' come to heel for this one. The virtual warrior himself jumps to to condemn the imagenery 'small minority [which might] attempt to provoke a violent clash' Already he's setting up a situation where the Gardai can riot just as they did on RTS. Then too they claimed they were 'provoked' by 'bad protesters'.

It's time that left spokespeople caught themselves on in this regard and stopped creating imaginary bad protesters to contrast themselves with. All the worse when they justify in advance a Gardai riot against such 'bad protesters'

Posted this on bin tax thread but more relevant here

by dec martin

Tue Mar 23, 2004 16:55

is referring initially to the fact IMC use doubled in week of publication of above trash.

Other names for the list: BOC (shannon scaremongering - The sinister faces of peace activists) / Cathy Donaghy (irish Protesters in genoa armed with hurleys) / Tim O'Brien (Every TD who left dail was attacked at blocade on day X).

What to do about these ppl? Well it is very easy to phone journalists and lead them up the garden path and waste entire days of their lives with dubious information and red herrings as tim O'Brien found out in no uncertain terms last year after the small blocade of the dail on Day x. Keeping IMC on the go helps too as journalists of all shades use it as a source and not just as fodder for hilariously out of context quote - ripping. It is very interesting that the two mayday scare pieces originate in Irish editions of Uk newspapers - a champion of aikido or jujitsu would use this as a point of leverage in doing something about this.

Pies are good for responding to lies too - the guy who wrote this article certainly from his picture byline along with his brother in Coke n crisps brendan likes pies.

Jump in Numbers shows the power of . .
by Dec Martin Monday, Mar 22 2004, 8:03pm

. . . publicity no matter how negative. Irish Sunday Mirror Doubles IMC readership overnight - now there's a headline.

By the way ken Murray is an incompetent lying probably into coke and crisps with his mate BOC Journalist. Now that it's in a comment on this leaky website it must be true. ;-)

He aint too bright either and all his mates are cops and politicians.

My guess is his source was McDowell. It is only a guess.

McDowell says today that bush visit will cause no threat from al Q but expected significant trouble on mayday.

A strange comment to say the least.

So is the fact that an unspectacular journalist like ken Murray gets an indepth briefing from a government minister to create a front page scare story (that is so wildly sensationalistic, inaccurate and manipulative) about something that to the 'Actual' 'Irish' media is not a story.

Several tamed journos have been noted by me to be pushing this line on various radio shows also - 'Mayday could be a big mess'.

What is michael planning? Now there's the question. Lots of riot training (for the army) going on in the curragh over the last while.

Does Michael want to create sufficient threat in the public mind so as to justify the army being deployed on to the streets for mayday? Army deployment sure worked for them on the whole shannon thing last year - when the army appeared the protests disappeared. W all saw the combat ready troops outside Govt Buildings, we all saw them at Shannon protecting the american army from a disorganised rabble of peaceniks.

It is also interesting to note that the two spectacular pieces of disinformation - two sunday cover stories written by obvious hacks - were published in British Owned publications.

Finally it is also worth noting that Michael McDowell is an admitted reader of Indymedia.ie - a main source for both front pages.

Michael if you're reading this - there are WWWAAAYYYY scarier things in this world than the wombles and you would be better off keeping an eye on them for us than looking around here for a threat that isn't actually here.

Don't send out the army mick - you'll make us out to be a tinpot dictatorship and damage Irelands image in the eyes of the world on Global TV.

And Dublin Chamber of Commerce wouldn't like that - would they?

is there a page of sites stats

by pc

Tue Mar 23, 2004 17:06

anywhere?

Yes -

by ec

Tue Mar 23, 2004 17:13

But it is tech-admin only accessible. Rough figures from Chekov on bin tax thread.

Sorry, wasn't the mirror that doubled the stats

by chekov

Tue Mar 23, 2004 17:56

They rose from a steady 7,000 different readers a week to 13,000 or so at the moment. The change was gradual over 10 days and it seems that the thing that triggered it was the Madrid bombing (at least those were the most popular stories during the rise). There are stats available but they are secret for the moment (unless the editors decide to make them publicly available that is) .

Why can't we see the stats?

by lad

Wed Mar 24, 2004 01:39

Why are the stats secret? Why not make them available and put a link to them.

What happened to openess?

the stats link was published before

by editor - IMC

Wed Mar 24, 2004 03:29

http://www.indymedia.ie/WWW_REPORTS/www.html

Information wants to be free

The star has joined the frenzy!

by Chekov

Wed Mar 24, 2004 09:30

Just heard on newstalk that the star have joined in the scare story. Lots of details about terrifying British anarchists and poor defenceless gardai. They had the Star's 'crime correspondant' on the radio going on about closing the borders and comparing anarchists to football hooligans. The Garda press office are working overtime pumping out this stuff. It's noticeable that the reports are all very similar and have similar lies in them - smacks of a single source. Journalists have already told us that the guards are doing this. The funniest thing was that the Newstalk report ended with the phrase "the guards had no comment".

How dare they

by Mr. Sofa

Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:25

The cheek of those right wing lackys - comparing anarchists to football hooligans - footbal hooligans tend to be working class all, dress the same - form loose affiliations based on some common pointless interest and then hang around in larger gangs hoping to taunt police into violence. They also tend to attack cars and shops when they can and hate people who slightly different from themslves.

Anarchists aren't like that at all are they?? On 2nd thoughts they sound exactly like anarchists - except the working class bit, obviously anarchy is pretty much the preserve of the middle classes

Apparently Combat 18 are anarchists

Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:56

At least according to a contributer to newstalk 106 (probably the same person that spoke yesterday)
When i heard this statement (something like, 'Combat 18 are basically anarchists') I immediatly phoned the radio station several times to demand that they correct that statement but they never did.

For those who are not aware of Combat 18, they are a neo nazi group of ultra right racist scum who like rioting at football games (the group apparently claimed responsibility for the violence at the Ireland Enfland game in 1995). Their name is based on Adolf Hitlers initials (1st and 8th letters of the alphabet) and they follow Union Jacks with the Swastica emblazoned on them. they are responsible for bradford race riots and for dozens of HateCrimes in the uk. They refer to the UK government as ZOG (zionist occupation government).

Basically they are the exact opposite to anarchists

Grassroots spokersperson to be on NewsTalk around 12.30

Wed Mar 24, 2004 13:22

There will be a 'first response' from a grassroots spokesperson on Newstalk just before 12.30 today to all these mad rumors the secret police are spreading. Tune in if your near a radio!

You can listen online

Wed Mar 24, 2004 13:24

Newstalk now have a live web broadcast. Access at http://www.newstalk106.ie/

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhh

by Sickened

Wed Mar 24, 2004 13:34

You suggest turning into Newstalk to listen to Aileen and I get Justin Barrett.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhh

GG going to be on after justin barrett?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 13:35

or did i miss it

Ugg

Wed Mar 24, 2004 13:37

Just as well its not in studio. I guess she's on next!

she's on at 1

by radio boy

Wed Mar 24, 2004 13:57

she's on after 1pm.

Is that it?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 14:07

a few seconds on a news bulletin after they gave Justin Barrett over 10 minutes to give his views on IVF treatment..

Fairly typical

Wed Mar 24, 2004 14:12

The media is often like this. If you fail to give them the sexy 'anarchists to storm Dublin' story they don't give you the airtime. Seen it happen again and again.

Self serving

by Hopeful

Wed Mar 24, 2004 14:56

What it comes down to is that most of the media are a lazy shower of self-serving lackeys. I'm sure there are a few journalists of integrity, but news editors seem to prefer the yespeople rather than anyone who will actually rock the boat by telling the truth.
There must be someone in the media who is prepared to speak up against the shit-stirring nonsense, musn't there?
????

Spoke too soon

Wed Mar 24, 2004 15:06

They actually had a brief inverview at 13.35 which was quite good. Even asked what the web address was!

Just a correction to my above stuff:

Wed Mar 24, 2004 15:23

Tim O'Brien did not say every td who left the dail on day x during small blocade was attacked. He just wrote a factually inaccurate IT report on same stating that protesters 'threw buckets of red paint at TDs etc' - turned out he hadn't been there.

The 'every td was attacked' juornalist was John Drennan of the Government threatening business backing Indo stable of horseshit

NUJ support and presence welcome and essential but:

by R Isible

Wed Mar 24, 2004 19:12

You wrote that: "The NUJ makes the point that `Without a media presence it is likely that the shameful episode would have been swept under the carpet and the claims of the protestors discredited.'"

And in fact the actual footage of the Garda riot on Mayday was collected by IMC journalists on the day (and subsequently run on RTE without proper crediting of the IMC journalists). It's good that RTE ran it, but don't go forgetting that this site collected the footage and that many people saw it here as _the_ primary resource for independent, original and fresh reporting. I know that wasn't that thrust of your piece, but I think it's important to point out that Indymedia is a frequent breaker of stories that are then picked up by other media that don't bother to credit us: how's that for ethical behaviour?

Meanwhile I assume that the hacks writing this stuff are members of the NUJ but haven't been expelled for their knuckle-dragging, boot-licking, ass-kissing dishonesty.

You ARE the media with Indymedia.

Keep it up

by Regular reader

Wed Mar 24, 2004 21:26

"the actual footage of the Garda riot on Mayday was collected by IMC journalists on the day (and subsequently run on RTE without proper crediting of the IMC journalists)."
Which is why the establishment have a major incentive to destroy or to limit the activities of indymedia. Hence the continual attacks, continual sniping, etc.
Don't let yourselves be intimidated in any way.
Keep up the good work.

Starshit

by Hack-watch

Thu Mar 25, 2004 00:48

Saw the front of the Star earlier. Enough is enough, that type of shit needs to be seriously challenged. Those lazy, boot licking, two-bit hacks have no right to call themselves journalists. They are the modern equivalent of the felon-setters. They are setting up protestors to be battered and perhaps killed. this is not accidental or co-incidental, it is cold-bloodedly calculated.

When are their professional associations, i.e. the NUJ, going to make a clear statement about that type of gross misrepresentation?
We need someone like John Pilger, rather than these fifth rate, yellow-pack word-hacks.

More in Ireland's Brightest Daily today thursday . . full page inside

by DM

Thu Mar 25, 2004 15:33

I wuz right - 1000 army riot trained dudes coming at the request of gardai to protect the obedient citizens of this happy city from 1000's of foreign wombles. So along with the gardai that's 6000 people against the foreign invaders. Jaysus that's as many as the Brits have in Basra.

From presently available info and careful research (unlike careful research of Star Mirror Mail) of my own I reckon the foreign invaders and their local accomplices could number up to 600 people.

Sounds like the gardai will have their work cut out for them - those wombles are so evil and vicious that each one is a match for 20 UK police. After all - didnt a line of about 15 of them keep the entire london riot police divisions stuck in battle for a good 6 hours one mayday in london. Oh jasus there a terrible threat - worser that fundies or ALQs by far. Even the little skinny ladies are an awful vicious bunch of animals.Thank god for our Gards with their country toughness and natural riot armour padding.

Your requests for open-minded journalism

by Journalist

Thu Mar 25, 2004 16:28

I am an NUJ registered freelance journalist. I am also a Masters in Journalism student, and have developed an interest in radical movements in Ireland during the past year of my studies.

I do not express my own views on the matter, and have so far remained objective and independent.

I am not affiliated to any anarchist groups, political party, media company or any other organisation that has a specific vested interest in what might or might not happen on Mayday.

I have come across several requests on this site for unbiased media contacts. This message is in response to those requests.

I am currently researching a number of feature articles on the topic of radical movements. All will be submitted to national newspapers for publication between now and September, and all will also be viewed by a panel of Ireland's most senior journalism academics beforehand.

If there are any representatives of anarchist or grassroots movements that would be interested in talking to me, then leave a message here or contact me on my mobile (086 3426630). I would appreciate contact sooner rather than later.

The first article is due on Monday the 29th March, and will be submitted for publication later next week.

I have left my phone number online in good faith, and I trust that any callers will be genuine.

Many thanks

Missed Phone Call

Thu Mar 25, 2004 18:54

By the way, someone from a certain city newspaper just called my phone then hung up. I presume he/she got my number here. Could that person please call me back? .......particularly if it is in relation to the current topic of conversation. ps - thanks to the gentleman who called me earlier

'requests'

by eekkkaboo

Thu Mar 25, 2004 23:20

'requests' you mention journalist - I edit here and read all the drivel and rows and good stuff and haven't seen any in a long time looking for contacts for unbiased journalists. Fishing for luckies? Hot info for nasty editors or an easy ride on a school essay. Which is it? Or is it both? Or are you just lonely?

Foreign media V 'foreign' activists

Fri Mar 26, 2004 13:35

Its ironic that we have British tabloids, masquerading as 'Irish' papers, trying to whip up some kind of nationalist resentment against English/Scottish/Welsh activists. The antics and mental gymnastics of our respective establishments and their media lapdogs are truly amazing.

We are trolls

by Tabloid papers

Fri Mar 26, 2004 13:38

We dont care what we write as long as it's controversial and we say shit just to stirr shit

For "eekkkaboo"

by journalist

Fri Mar 26, 2004 16:48

You say " I edit here and read all the drivel and rows and good stuff and haven't seen any in a long time looking for contacts for unbiased journalists".

For your information, if you scroll up the page you will see "Amazing the lenghts some spiteful tabloid hacks will go to to try to discredit indymedia. Any sign yet of journalists with integrity?" by a J Healy.

Scroll up a little further and you will see "There must be someone in the media who is prepared to speak up against the shit-stirring nonsense, musn't there?
????" by a Hopeful.

Thats two on this thread alone. There are more requets, both directly and indirectly, all over this website. This has nothing to do with "Fishing for luckies? Hot info for nasty editors or an easy ride on a school essay" as you suggest.

I refuse to be drawn on a debate as to the agenda of the media or its treatment of anarchists or any groups. I am merely interested in writing about it as independently as I can. I also refuse to be intimidated by your insults and I will not reciprocate them.

I do understand that you feel aggrieved at the way the media portrays your organisations, and I'd probably be as cynical as yourself if it were me. But I am not out to plaster a made-up story across the front pages of a tabloid, as hard as you find that to believe.

If you really want to discuss this, then contact me by telephone and I can talk to you instead of reading your messages. I have nothing to hide, I have an open mind, and I can assure you that I am genuine.

the bell was tolled.

by oyez oyez

Fri Mar 26, 2004 16:54

the candles were lit.
the oil was used up.
the dolphins left.
the species became for you extinct.
we told you not to.

and now you want to make it all better?
you want to undo your advertising?
you want to undo your lies?
you want to salvage your credibility because you spent years in mortgage and never ate from bins, and never trespassed, and never clothed yourselves in rags, and never gave enough to others for free, and spent too long without fear, yet building terror for others?

I'm not trying to salvage anything...

Fri Mar 26, 2004 17:13

Credibility or otherwise.

Journalist

by hooded idiot

Fri Mar 26, 2004 20:42

There's no such thing as objective writing.

If you write a piece, you select the issues, events, individuals, and quotes you use. You can't possibly cover all views on any matter. Therefore what you write is subjective. You decide which events etc. are more newsworthy than others.

Also, you select under what criteria you evaluate any group, action, etc. As you claim to be "objective" i presume these criteria are in keeping with the "normal", middle of the road, capitalist "democratic" school of thought. Therefore you are pushing a certain agenda.

And finally, if you manage to get a piece published in the corporate media, it's doubtful you are giving fair coverage to people who oppose the existence of said media. That's just common sense. Why would editors publish a piece which undermines their authority, and goes against the wishes of their main source of income, ie. advertisers?

hooded idiot

Fri Mar 26, 2004 20:53

Of course there is no such thing as objective writing. I never claimed that there was. I said objective research, and I stand over that. People can and should be as objective as is humanly possible when researching something.

Also, don't assume that I come from any particular school of thought.

Finally, re: fair coverage to those that oppose the media. That's what I am attempting to do by engaging with, meeting with and talking to - both in person and over the phone - people who oppose the existence of the media. I may or may not be successful, but at least I am trying.

Fri Mar 26, 2004 21:23

You cite two comments as proof of a burning desire of "your organisations" for a journalist (you) to write a piece which tells "the truth".

The problem with this is that the two comments above could be astroturfing by yourself.

Your desire to interject yourself between "your organisations" and the corporate media is actually antithetical to the whole idea of indymedia.ie. You are using indymedia.ie as a research facility for _your_ ends. You are not contributing information about anything, you are _asking_ for information.

The reason I volunteer my time for indymedia.ie is so that I don't have to read _your_ distilled, interpreted opinion on what "your organisations" have to say: I want to read what those organisations, and more importantly the individuals in those organisations, have to say _for_themselves_.

The quoted articles and complaints about the scandalously inaccurate coverage of "mayday anarchists" are not asking for a journalistic knight-on-a-shining-horse to thunder in and sort it all out through research: they're complaints about deliberate lies. You can't redress that, even if your article were accurate in its presentation of "your organisations" it is unlikely that the Daily Mudslinger would publish it.

The conclusion of most of the participants in the last debacle where a pair of journalists were invited to an open meeting and ended up publishing complete garbage was that journalists are either co-opted by the process, or else have their work savaged by editors.

Indymedia.ie bypasses all of that and allows publishing of any opinions which fall within the guidelines.

You suggest that you're here to help: if you are genuine then I suggest that you contribute articles or photographs or audio to indymedia.ie

R Isible

Fri Mar 26, 2004 21:35

Indymedia does not belong to you. It is an organic, evolving web service. It is not up to you to decide who should and shouldn't use it.

I am not a knight-in-shining-armour, nor have i pretended to be.

If the views of anarchists, socialists and the left in general are ever to achieve anything, then solely preaching to the converted will achieve nothing. That is why the mainstream media should not be dismissed by you.

You obviously have a personal issue with me because of my profession. Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. But don't attack my opinion unless you know what it is.

Lets not bore everyone else with a stupid ongoing tit-for-tat. Ok?

dear journalist, your phone number without a name

by blisset (one of them)

Fri Mar 26, 2004 23:16

that we may verify is meaningless.
You expect us to call this number and say
"oh hello there journalist you want to talk to us, but we don't your name".
now that's not polite.
oh no, not a bit.
If i pick up the phone and talk to someone, I like to see the caller display and you know decide if I answer. How are you to know that ooodles and ooodles of reprobates aren't phoning you, texting you and so on?
So therefore you are being silly.
Why are you being silly?
Are you a silly billy?
Why are you inviting that sort of attention?
You must be very sure of yourself.
You are very sure of yourself aren't you?
Oh well that's the way the cookie crumbles.

like what wavelength are you on Journalist?

by blisset (another of them)

Fri Mar 26, 2004 23:20

are you ready to meld? Progress as they say. We are an open source community with certain agreed common rules and approaches.
leave your name.
http://www.indymedia.ie/contact.php
and your number
& we'll get back to you...

"Also, don't assume that I come from any particular school of thought"

Sat Mar 27, 2004 13:03

Of course you do.

I don't think you'd get very far studying Journalism, never mind a Masters, without subscribing in some way to the values, definitions etc. taught. You probably see Journalism as a great force for good, uncovering the truth and fighting injustice and such. The idea of a "journalist" is in itself at odds with what things like indymedia are about. The media will only be a source of truth when it is open and accessible, when you don't require a Masters to have your voice heard.

Also, you're deluded if you think the mainstream media is the only way to reach people outside our particular circles. This demonstrates what i was just talking about, an unhealthy respect for the cororate media.

Of course you have your own opinions which inform your interpretation of events, eg. what constitutes violence? There's nothing wrong with this, but stop pretending you're some kind of magical ambiguous medium for truth. Embrace your opinions and be open about them.

Sat Mar 27, 2004 15:07

I was questioning whether there were any in the corporate media who have the courage to protest within their own workplaces against the slanted shit-stirring. I was not looking for contact with journalists, particularly lazy ones who publish a contact phone number but won't leave a name.
I have published articles and photos here under my real name, and also under an assumed name. I don't see why 'Journalist' can not do the same. Contribute to this independent media, rather than expect the people here to provide copy for you to provide your meal-ticket. Don't just take-take-take all the time.

Still here

Sat Mar 27, 2004 18:26

To Blisset - you have my number already. I am presuming blisset is not your real or full name?

To Hooded Idiot - You are still making assumptions

To Hopeful - My job is to research and to write, and I will do that, both about the media, but also about you and your colleagues.

Enough, Already

by Anthony - Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group

Sat Mar 27, 2004 21:59

From the comment Missed Phone Call onwards, this article has been turned into a discussion around the sincerity and credibillity of an anonymous poster claiming to be a journalist. Over the last couple of days this particular discussion has spanned across three different articles on the newswire. Hopefully, this won't continue seeing that "Journalist" is now acquainted with the editorial guidelines and has expressed a desire not to engage in pointless debate or as he puts it himself "ongoing tit-for-tat".

If people want to have a discussion with "Journalist", they are welcome to try the number he/she published. If "Journalist" wants to contribute news to the site he or she is as welcome to do so as any other user of this site.

Journalism

by Donnacha - NUJ

Thu Apr 01, 2004 18:04

donnacha at sortedmagazine dot com

"probably see Journalism as a great force for good, uncovering the truth and fighting injustice and such. "

Come off it, I studied journalism for four years, I've got a BA and I think no such thing. Shit, "Manufacturing Consent" was required reading on the course. Don't immediately blame the journalists, editors and subs regularly change what they write. Look at the way the journalists at the Express in the UK reported their own newspaper to the Press Complaints Commission. Journalists are screwed over by their bosses as much as anyone else, I speak from experience. But, at times, we can do some good - check out the link I've posted. These days I work in independent media rather than a national broadcaster. Slagging off journalists as being all the same is as bad as journalists slagging off anarchists as being all the same. I'm both, so what does that make me?

D.

RTS footage

Thu Apr 01, 2004 18:07

"And in fact the actual footage of the Garda riot on Mayday was collected by IMC journalists on the day (and subsequently run on RTE without proper crediting of the IMC journalists)."

Get your facts straight, the footage used by RTÉ was produced by an RTÉ camera journalist, Clare Connolly, working on the Network 2 programme Sampler. Check out the link.

D.

Lest there be any confusion...

Thu Apr 01, 2004 18:16

I'm not the same journalist who posted earlier, I'm a different one with no problems giving my name and email and I'm well known to some of the regulars around here. Hookay? Oh, and I would recommend that some of the people involved in stuff over yonder in Dublin (I live in London) do give the NUJ in Liberty Hall a shout about this stuff, as well as the Dublin Amnesty International office. Don't just moan about yellow journalism, do something constructive.

D.

Donnacha

by Aidan - Indymedia Ireland

Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:04

Actually Donnacha if you check your facts and check with Clare, (whom i know) you'll find that she'll agree that the majority of the footage was shot by Indymedia. Furthermore Indymedia got our footage into the RTE newsroom, and formed the entirity of their one o clock news broadcast the next day.

And still it goes

Mon Apr 19, 2004 15:45

At least the governement is no longer being given a free run by the media with the scare stories. And some media (the IT in this case) are attributing the Gardai souces of the scare stories.

It's beginning to look like much of west central Dublin will be shut down by the Gardai on Mayday, hinted at in the paragraph
"A number of streets approaching Phoenix Park, and in the city centre,
may also be closed to avoid large groups of demonstrators
congregating."

Amazing that there is so little media commentary on what is clearly intended to in effect be a ban on any sizeable demonstration anywhere in the city. Get angy, get active and get out there on the day to 'reclaim the city'.

----

Irish Times, 19.4.04, p. 3

May Day policing plans "heavy-handed"
Joe Humphreys

Left-wing campaigners organising May Day protests to coincide with the
visit to Dublin of EU heads of state have condemned what they describe
as "heavy-handed" Garda plans to police the event.

While the Garda yesterday refused to discuss its policing arrangements,
Garda sources confirmed that both water-cannons and armed gardai
would be made available to riot police if violence erupted.

Dublin Grassroots Network, one of the main organisers of the protests,
said the "unwarranted" security arrangements would generate greater
tensions, and increase the likelihood of clashes.

A spokeswoman for the group, Ms Aileen O'Carroll, said "if you set up a
situation where gardai are armed, you are legitimising a certain level of
force.

"What makes matters worse is that this is being organised in secret. We
would like to know the rules of engagement, and under what
circumstances guns or water-cannon can be used."

A Garda spokeswoman said yesterday: "We will be issuing a press
release in the next week or so in relation to our arrangements and
outlining the numbers involved. But we are not commenting in the
meantime."

The Garda Commissioner, Mr Noel Conroy, has already indicated that
gardai are targeting a six-hour period on May 1st, between 4 p.m. and
10 p.m., during which they believe trouble is most likely to occur. The
Phoenix Park will be closed for the day as heads of state meet at
Farmleigh House to celebrate the accession of 10 new members (sic)
states to the EU.

A number of streets approaching Phoenix Park, and in the city centre,
may also be closed to avoid large groups of demonstrators
congregating.

Dublin Grassroots Network is leading a coalition of Irish and
international protestors on a march from the city to Farmleigh where
they are planning a noisy protest against the EU's "Fortress Europe"
policy on immigration.

Garda leave has been cancelled for the weekend, and at least 4,000
gardai - or a third of the force - will be on duty on May Day itself. About
1,200 of these will be assigned to public order duties.

Soldiers and gardai have been given special anti-riot training and a
Garda intelligence unit has been established at Harcourt Square to
compile information on possible troublemakers travelling to Dublin from
other countries in Europe.

Mr Rory Hearne of the left-wing Another Europe is Possible Coalition,
which is organising a separate protest on May 1st, said the Garda plans
were "part of a serious attempt, stemming from the highest level of
Government, to intimidate people not to turn up on the day, and to stop
the anti-war movement in its tracks.

"All the protests planned for the day are completely peaceful. So it's
totally irresponsible to have armed gardai. What evidence is there that
there will be violence? None."

Response to Donnacha's 3 comments

Mon Apr 19, 2004 17:31

1. Indymedia.ie _is_ "doing something"! We're providing our own coverage. I presume from your post that your definition of "doing something" involves appealing to AI and the NUJ?

2. If you've read "Manufacturing Consent" then you ought to understand that what's being described is a mechanism. The motivations and psychology of the parts of the mechanism (the journalists) are _nearly_ irrelevant as long as they sign their names to the articles that are savaged by the "evil" editors and sub-editors.

3. I refer you to Aidan's comments as to the accuracy of your claim as to the provenance of the footage used by RTE of the Mayday assaults by the Gardai on peaceful protestors.

And a Question for Donnacha

by R Isible - Indymedia Ireland - Not NUJ

Mon Apr 19, 2004 17:34

Given that you're some sort of stripe of an anarchist I presume that you've been making your own strongly worded complaint to the NUJ? After all you are a member and it's _your_ reputation that loses when your fellow NUJ members publish complete lies designed to instigate and excuse state violence?

Indymedia & RTÉ

by Donnacha

Mon Apr 19, 2004 20:34

> Actually Donnacha if you check your facts and check with Clare, (whom i know) you'll find that she'll agree that the majority of the footage was shot by Indymedia.

OK, my bad, not the story I was given (I'd just quit from RTÉ a few weeks before, so I was no longer part of the process).

D.

Mon Apr 19, 2004 20:43

> 1. Indymedia.ie _is_ "doing something"! We're providing our own coverage. I presume from your post that your definition of "doing something" involves appealing to AI and the NUJ?

I was specifically referring to doing something about other people's coverage. Of course I applaud indymedia providing an alternative, but if that's all your interested in, then don't complain about what the mainstream papers do.

> 2. If you've read "Manufacturing Consent" then you ought to understand that what's being described is a mechanism. The motivations and psychology of the parts of the mechanism (the journalists) are _nearly_ irrelevant as long as they sign their names to the articles that are savaged by the "evil" editors and sub-editors.

Nearly, but not quite. Look at the revolt in the Daily Express over its racist articles. Journalists are workers too, just the same as anyone else. Unionised workers are unionised workers, fighting with bosses, getting screwed over, doing things they don't want to. The anti-journalist generalisations on here sometimes are ridiculous.

D

NUJ

Mon Apr 19, 2004 20:47

>Given that you're some sort of stripe of an anarchist I presume that you've been making your own strongly worded complaint to the NUJ? After all you are a member and it's _your_ reputation that loses when your fellow NUJ members publish complete lies designed to instigate and excuse state violence?

As I neither live, nor work, in Ireland, I'm not in much of a position to do anything about this (other than working to strengthen the union). You'll also find that, in many cases, the people publishing lies are NOT members of the NUJ. This is definitely the case in the Mail-owned Ireland on Sunday. Active NUJ members tend to have a stronger position in the workplace and more ability to say no.

D.

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