Ukraine Shoots Down F-16 With Patriot, A... Sat Aug 31, 2024 11:53 | Anti-Empire
Surprise Offensive Puts 300 km² of Russ... Fri Aug 09, 2024 08:44 | Marko Marjanović
The Wholesome Photo of the Month Thu May 09, 2024 11:01 | Anti-Empire
In 3 War Years Russia Will Have Spent $3... Thu May 09, 2024 02:17 | Anti-Empire
UK Sending Missiles to Be Fired Into Rus... Tue May 07, 2024 14:17 | Marko Marjanović Anti-Empire >>
A bird's eye view of the vineyard
Alternative Copy of thesaker.is site is available Thu May 25, 2023 14:38 | Ice-Saker-V6bKu3nz Alternative site: https://thesaker.si/saker-a... Site was created using the downloads provided Regards Herb
The Saker blog is now frozen Tue Feb 28, 2023 23:55 | The Saker Dear friends As I have previously announced, we are now “freezing” the blog. We are also making archives of the blog available for free download in various formats (see below).
What do you make of the Russia and China Partnership? Tue Feb 28, 2023 16:26 | The Saker by Mr. Allen for the Saker blog Over the last few years, we hear leaders from both Russia and China pronouncing that they have formed a relationship where there are
Moveable Feast Cafe 2023/02/27 ? Open Thread Mon Feb 27, 2023 19:00 | cafe-uploader 2023/02/27 19:00:02Welcome to the ‘Moveable Feast Cafe’. The ‘Moveable Feast’ is an open thread where readers can post wide ranging observations, articles, rants, off topic and have animate discussions of
The stage is set for Hybrid World War III Mon Feb 27, 2023 15:50 | The Saker Pepe Escobar for the Saker blog A powerful feeling rhythms your skin and drums up your soul as you?re immersed in a long walk under persistent snow flurries, pinpointed by The Saker >>
Interested in maladministration. Estd. 2005
RTEs Sarah McInerney ? Fianna Fail supporter? Anthony
Joe Duffy is dishonest and untrustworthy Anthony
Robert Watt complaint: Time for decision by SIPO Anthony
RTE in breach of its own editorial principles Anthony
Waiting for SIPO Anthony Public Inquiry >>
Voltaire, international edition
Keir Starmer, agent of the Trilateral Commission Sat Sep 07, 2024 06:05 | en
Voltaire, International Newsletter N°97 Fri Aug 30, 2024 12:14 | en
The New Iranian Foreign Policy Fri Aug 30, 2024 12:12 | en
Press lies about the Venezuelan presidential election, by Thierry Meyssan Tue Aug 27, 2024 06:59 | en
Voltaire, International Newsletter N°96 Fri Aug 23, 2024 15:28 | en Voltaire Network >>
|
Ghadaffi's Trojan Horse
international |
eu |
other press
Saturday December 18, 2004 11:50 by hello ireland! howya doin? are you alright? - won't be long now.
![Report this post to the editors Report this post to the editors](../graphics/report.gif)
Helping the War on Terror? Helping Bush get re-elected?
Italian class :-
La Storia Siamo Noi:
is a product of RAI the Italian equivalent of RTE.
it means "history is us".
And the director and presenter of the project just did an interview with Colonel Ghadaffi the dictator of Libya.
http://www.educational.rai.it/ They spoke aoubt many things-
How Ghadaffi helped the re-election of President Bush by not choosing to pursue a nuclear weapons program.
What Libya and Italy are doing together to stem the daily flow of desperate economic refugees and migrants (in italian called "clandestini") who cross the mediterranean on rafts.
Italy together with Spain sees the most of these entries, and every week, their custom forces take yet more corpses from the water. It isn't so easy to sail from the Southern Mediterranean "ancient provinces of the Roman empire" to the Northern Mediterranean "modern states of the European Union". But every day thousands try. And they have mostly crossed the desert which streches from southern Morrocco to Libya to do so.
Then the dictator of Libya spoke of his admiration for Canada.
Then he declared the Turkey's entry to the EU will be a "trojan's horse" for islamic fundamentalists.
Making an illusion to the anceint motto-
"beware of greeks bearing gifts". (quidquid
id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes)
This is odd, Ghadaffi might be yet another Brad Pitt fan, [ I was content just to have read the book by vrgil which is out of copyright ], but for those who's cultural understanding is a bit cinematic, after the fall of Troy when it was sacked by the assembled armies of Agemenon and his mercenaries who included Achilles, the survivors were believed to have dispersed across the mediterranean and indeed the Romans liked to believe that their own founders Romulus and Remus had been offspring of Trojans.
Many people with a lot of brains were happy to see Italy, then France and then the UK and ultimately the USA and Spain warm in their attitude to the dictator of Libya. They believed that welcoming one of those who provided weapons and organisational help to many terrorist organisations in their "popular left freedom struggle" previous incarnations, would bring a "local man" with "local sense" to the "War on terror".
The site of "la historia siamo noi" is not yet built.
Ironic. But if you follow the link you may watch and hear the interview, which in time will also have translation. But that page will be refreshed next weekend.
http://www.educational.rai.it/
or you can read about it in english here -
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=782
(on being a EU sceptic)
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apmideast_story.asp?category=1107&slug=Italy%20Libya
(on helping Bush get re-elected)
****************************************
.:. I have tried to make it clear to as many people with subtle brains as I can, that Europe can be as big as it wants to be, from the Atlantic to the Urinal but when it excludes states it pushes yet more failure ahead of it's ambition, and one simple rule applies
- for the adhesion of Turkey, Libya, Morrocco, Israel and so on.
Europe is to be made of democratically accountable republics and constitutional monarchies. We're not working with dictatorships.
Coz we don't really trust the democracies we have, but we feel we can work with them to improve them. And you don't need to be a nobel prize winner to see why ;-)
|
View Comments Titles Only
save preference
Comments (15 of 15)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15RAI has far more scantily clad dancing women on its shows than RTE
And the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, has oodles of wives, more than oodles as many as he can afford (according to islamic law) and a big harem as well.
Saudi Arabia is neither a democracy nor a constitutional monarchy. It is an oligarchy which controls the world's oil production and holds custody of the holy sites of the 2nd most populous religion, unlike you Dougal who just gets to say early morning mass in kilkenny for the mentally challenged.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4119719.stm
protesters gather at the Italian consul in Benghazi Libya yesterday to get angry at Europe & european media & cartoonists.
And at least a dozen of them got shot. The libyan state in its first news says "11 wounded none dead". But the thing about gun shot wounds is that unless the person shooting you is very careful, calm and collected like Cheney hunting ducks (for example) you can actually die "slowly".
Unfortuanately the Libyans aren't the sort who will update us on their conditions.
& the affair has had effects in Italy, ahead of thier elections. Berlusconi (Mr Italy in the sense that Qhadaffi is Mr Libya) has demanded the resignation of the leader of the "league of the north" one of the most extreme right coalition partners to his government. This is not a sign of him going centre, because yesterday Mr B also signed a new election pact with Alessandra Mussolini
C/F http://indymedia.ie/article/74325
latest news say 10 dead. the colonel has never used kid gloves when dealing with fundamentalists. libya is no democracy but women are in the armed forces. maybe it was women who cut down the fundamentalists. ;) now that would be "divine" justice.
Now there's "good dictators" and "bad dictators"? Pat C, the same logic would lead you to applaud the murder of Archbishop Romero because he was a member of the Catholic hierarchy and we all know how Catholicism discriminates against women and gays.
you are standing logic on its head. romero was killed by rightwingers because he stood for social justice.
and again: i hope it was female soldiers who offed the mullahs lackeys!
Straight question for you: if a female member of the IDF "offed" a Hamas activist, hat would your reaction be?
in a retreat organised by Opus Dei. a little detail often overlooked by those who use his murder as an example of something or other. Or even more ambitiously make a cogent point /
you could always try reading latin american websites such as indymedia in depth and making pals and asking such questions directly to the people who can answer them.
I'm also not sure what this has to do with the original article.
well, if it was a military situiatoion as seems most likely then i would be against the idf. i think palestinian groups are entitled to cary out armed struggle i the occupied territories and against military targets in israel as long as the occupation lasts. i dont support suicide bombings. children are never legitimate targets.
whether its a good strategic idea for palestinians to carry out such attacks is another qurestion and one for them to decide.
interesting, romero & opus dei. but he died because he was defending ordinary people against the state.
I first learnt about Romero & Opus Dei in the lead-up to the last conclave. The observant will have noticed i dedicated three sunday papers to the papal succession and over a four month period wrote quite a few articles on faith based material and the RC church in particular. For various reasons, I ended up meeting with a member of Opus Dei and we held frank discussion on a range of issues, including spanish democracy, fertility, same sex civil unions, the pulp fiction of Dan Brown, the rôle of the cardinals Solano, Sodano and Ratzinger, the legacy of JP2, and the hopes for ecumenical progress in the trinitarian christian churches. with particular attention to the 39 articles of faith of the anglican communion, and the code of practise of the society of Friends (quakers) South american social development, poverty and ecological areas including life patents, biotech (both human [embryionic] and food supply agricultural issues) as well as general "ethnic / racial" integration issues.
I have to admit, though the discussions were frank, I ended up stopping them and though the OD man wanted me to go on, I could not. Thats how much my own personal sensibilities were offended. Very early on in those discussion I cited Romero as an example of a "left wing" RC church, and a legacy that those who adhere to the "liberation theology" tradition in global catholicism admired. the OD man took particular pleasure in informing of the rôle OD had played in San salvador at that time, and that Romero was the week of his assasination on retreat in a newly opened OD centre, and that furthermore OD members and "fellow travellers" took up his clerical duties upon his murder. To this day OD holds sway in the san Salvadorian RC church. We moved on to Agnes gonzho (mother teresa) and i met the same barricades of smug condecension. & to be honest I don't remember those discussions with much affection. But I believe that in the cause of our movement, we must sit down and talk frankly with those who sit on the opposite side of the table, and find common ground. But simply because one sits at the same table for while doesn't mean one validates the other's opinion or wish give their viewpoint attention.
this thread is about ghadaffi and his relations with italy, and the way in which he went from being "sponser of terror" number one, to potential "ally" in the war on terror. I pinged it this morning not only because of what ocured in Benghazi yesterday, nor just for the forthcoming Italian elections and the concerns there which Libya share on migration and security. But also coz it would help ye all to remember that there have been 4 distinct forms of "political pan-arabism". 1 is most certainly dead. 2 are engaged in war with the west led by the US and the other....
is the gift to be suspicious of.
I was just making the point that religious figures can sometimes be found at the forefront of protest / resistance. The self-incinerating Buddhist monks in Vietnam...Romero / liberation theologists in El Salvador...Islamicists in the Middle East. I realise that religious leaders are probably more often found on the side of reaction, but that shouldn't blind people to the other side of the coin.
honestly they should make you an editor Lets keep pinging Ghadaffi for the next few days till the happy readers realise he's in the news. & then horizontal media will talk about him. & then we'll release our ghadaffi stuff. but this time let's not be rude to each other Ghaddiffi Trojan Horse is all we have to keep reminding them of.
thats how cognitive science works. pius xii did worse than you imagine...
This stuff really deserves to be in italics.
Obama's first speech to the UN General Assembly will be well reported and quoted and commented upon today and perhaps for years to come.
If you want to read the transcript of what Obama said in his maiden speech to the UN
here's the transcript : http://www.nowpublic.com/world/obama-s-un-general-assem...ripts
After he finished reading his speech someone else had the joy of making their maiden speech to a UN general assembly, the 64th session to be precise.
The man who never went away and still lives in a tent Colonel Muammar Al-Qadhafi took the podium with a copy of the UN charter in his hand and was supposed to speak for a mere 20 minutes. We mostly appreciate that the average concentration span of humans pretty much depends on the generation they belong to. It is quite plausible that most first time voters in the forthcoming Lisbon 2 referendum in Eire can't concentrate beyond the average TV advert break, but their elders of the average age of the diplomats and bods in the UN assembly still stick with the twenty minute average rule .
The man who never went away is being reported today as ranting and raving for over an hour and a half. Most of the English language transcripts of what he said are available to browse on the internet from sites which are kindly forewarned by Mozilla and Google as being bad for your computer's health.
The original arabic transcript may be read here : http://www.jananews.ly/Index.aspx?Language=1
You may listen to his speech in arabic (& he really was speaking quickly) here if you have real player installed on your computer :
http://webcast.un.org/ramgen/ondemand/ga/64/2009/ga0909...28:21
If you don't have real player installed on your computer, don't install it - it's one step above malware.
If you made that mistake (installing real player) years ago simply because you wanted to watch RTE video reports then you can also enjoy a video of the Colonel's speech in arabic with the dubbed official UN Libyan interpreter's subtitles here :
http://webcast.un.org/ramgen/ondemand/ga/64/2009/ga0909...28:40
If you want to read the first transcript distributed on non-commercial or non-malware internet of the speech (& the version which is being worked on together with the original at Libya's jananews site for translation into other languages) then you can go here :
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message886454/pg1
but please note that there is still a problem with word order, a general difficulty when translating semitic languages into latin based, germanic or slavic languages or for all I know - the very special gaeilge and euskera. For the most part you can get around the transcript's word order problem by supposing he was speaking Yoda style. More importantly you have to wonder about the first person. The UN statement uses "we" the initial transcripts use "I". that's grammatically known as the difference between singular and plural in English but in semitic languages may also include the impersonal "one".
Much of the media industrial complex are paying more attention to what he wore (robes with an african shaped pin over his heart coz he's currently head of the African Union and what he did with the UN charter) despite the fact that he's been wearing that Africa shaped heart pin for the last year and has been photographed wearing it on suits, robes, but not pjyamas next to such wonders as Sarkozy, Berlusconi and the prime minister of Tunisia whose name needs no mention. Our western commercial press also highlight these titbits of the 1h36 minutes :-
:: he slapped the UN charter down on the podium for dramatic effect several times.
:: He then threw the UN charter over his shoulder!
:+: He then asked the UN assembly who had killed JFK (John FitzGerald Kennedy) [a president of the USA back when the KKK didn't admit catholics and neoNazi movements didn't use the celtic cross as a symbol.] {he was a very popular president, so popular indeed that Marilyn Monroe shagged him and many Irish familes put his picture on their walls}. Colonel Muammar Al-Qadhafi
was probably being rhetorical when asking that question and not alluding to anything in particular.
:: he congratuled Mr Obama and said that Africa is proud one of its descendents is president of the USA. (conveniently ignoring the fact that we are all descended from Africans and thus every US president has been too. Unless they were shape-shifting reptiles. I don't know. You'd have to get up close to one and check out their pupils or at least wave some live bait like a mouse in front of their mouth & see how they react.
__________________________________________________________________________
All these highlights and reports when compared and contrasted with the previous speech of the current UN general assembly (that of Obama) suggest several things to the sort of individual who would be watching this century's karpov/kasparov clash.....
.....from sadly obvious things to cleverly insightful stuff......
here is a list of some of the things his actions and speech suggested :-
* he was showing disdain for the charter and being dramatic in a way reminiscent of Kruschev's banging his shoe incident.
* he was pissed off because the NYC authorities tried to apply their planning permission and dwelling by-laws to his tent despite the fact that as a head of state visiting the UN he is supposed to be accorded inviolability .
* he was off his head on drugs.
* he was in sharp contrast to Obama not actually reading a well honed speed and out to impress the thronged hall with his oratory but was instead in ad-lib mode. (ad-lib mode of course can come across as ranting, raving, free-association, einfall, pillow talk or slip of the tongue)
{ I personally favour slip of the tongue followed by rant, rave, free association and then pillow talk }
- of course we could add "double entendre" to that last list.
* he was in fact enjoying every moment of his maiden appearance but highly conscious that a load of the more VIP delegates (such as the US Hillary Clinton) had left the room as soon as he got up to speak.
____________________________________________________________________________
if you're interested in news in any sort of way ranging from casual user to completely dependent addict, you will probably know that Colonel Muammar Al-Qadhafi (as we know him now so as not to confuse him with Gadaffi the bad bloke from before) called for
* an end to the Security Council veto.
* true equality amongst states just like it's supposed to be.
* mentioned that there have been 65 wars since the UN began which occured because of the geopolitical game playing of the UN security council permanent members; USA, USSR/Russia, UK, China & France.
_____________________________________________________________________________
that was & is the kernal which explains what the leader of Libya was on about.
Obama towards the end of his speech said "sixty-five years ago, a weary Franklin Roosevelt spoke to the American people in his fourth and final inaugural address. After years of war, he sought to sum up the lessons that could be drawn from the terrible suffering and enormous sacrifice that had taken place. “We have learned,” he said, “to be citizens of the world, members of the human community.”
The United Nations was built by men and women like Roosevelt from every corner of the world — from Africa and Asia; form Europe to the Americas. These architects of international cooperation had an idealism that was anything but naive — it was rooted in the hard-earned lessons of war, and the wisdom that nations could advance their interests by acting together instead of splitting apart."
The leader of Libya, who also leads the African Union and who has cut deals with the UK and welcomed Berlusconi to open motorways in his state is not the same man who was once a pariah.
He's now ascended to the stage where we merely take the piss out of his speeches.
& of course they get edited down properly afterwards.
Here you can read the simple condensed polite sanitised and boulderised version of his speech from the UN
http://www.un.org/ga/64/generaldebate/LY.shtml
the little red light meant he had gone over time when he asked who killed JFK. hence that ? is not in the official summary.
Dictators spend hours and hours talking because they fear the questions of us normal people.