The 14 Characteristics of Fascism:

by historian Thu Jan 13, 2005 17:29

In fairness, that would give him a head start in the classification of totalitarianism I would think :)

by judith Thu Jan 13, 2005 14:50

Hobsbawm, eh. A lifelong member of the Communist Party

by historian Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:04

So you reckon the US and the Irish Republic are fascist states?

Sweet suffering jesus !!

The defining feature of fascism of course is/was that it is/was based on the creation of a totalitarian state in which all forces independnet of the party state are suppressed. That means no elections, no other parties, no non-party press or other media, no cultural sector indepednent of the party state. That also is/was the main defining feature of Marxism Leninism. In fact the closest thing to fascist states in existence at the moment are Cuba and North Korea.

by Phuq Hedd Thu Jan 13, 2005 02:57

like you say.

1 Powerful and Continuing Nationalism A country with "Soldiers of Destiny", a contrived (and largely failed) revival of its "national language", public playing of the national anthem in cinemas (I'll never forget my shock when that first happened to me).

2 Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Support of an illegal war against innocent civilains by allowing the aggressor to refuel in our territory, continued absence of governmental condemnation of that illegal war, or the torture of civilians.

3 Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause Pick the Brits, the Travellers, Immigrants or the Terrorists. We have a rich diversity of scapegoats to choose from.

4 Supremacy of the Military Mmmm, well OK. ;) However if you see the monoplisation of violence by the State (whether it involves the Gardai beating up women and kids or some moron parading around with a Steyr Aug) as being the problem then there's certainly only one other organisation on the island that can begin to give them a run for their money.

5 Rampant Sexism Abortion illegal, abortion information illegal, women get lower pay than men, are unpaid for housework... I could go on but I have to get back to looking after the kids.

6 Controlled Mass Media With the exception of indymedia we have only state broadcasting and capitalist broadcasting.

7 Obsession with National Security Don't know if this really applies. It seems to general a category. But we do have a disproportionately large secret service with an undisclosed budget that the public is not allowed to view.

8 Religion and Government are Intertwined Schools, hospitals, women's bodies.

9 Corporate Power is Protected As with all countries it's actually enshrined in the law.

10 Labor Power is Suppressed Systematic destruction of the unions and the co-option of the remainder has done the job nicely. Add the high level of under-education and ignorance and the "workers" have finished themselves off nicely. We'll hear some sob stories soon.

11 Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Hard to tell on this one.

12 Obsession with Crime and Punishment Depends on whether we believe the "controlled mass media" or not.

13 Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Time for another rezoning.

14Fraudulent Elections Doesn't apply, except insofar as the general structure of representative democracy is fraudulent, but there's certainly no ballot rigging going on.

by hs Thu Jan 13, 2005 00:06

You couldn't really call the US fascist in any way, but I couldn't help but notice a couple of the 14 points did ring a bell

You could probably do the same to alot of countries these days though


1 Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Little national flags that every politican local and national has to wear.

2 Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Gulag in the sun, and no I don't mean castro!

3 Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
war against terror?.

4 Supremacy of the Military
biggest and best in the world, (mind you not great at stealing oil).

5 Rampant Sexism
porno capital of the world? . yet somehow a a powerful puritan lobby, strange.

6 Controlled Mass Media
you heard it first on Fox.

7 Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
need we say more.

8 Religion and Government are Intertwined
Crusade anyone?

9 Corporate Power is Protected
well thats just about everywhere in the world these days..

10 Labor Power is Suppressed
goddanm commie pinko bastards!

11 Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
stick where the sun don't shine chomsky!

12 Obsession with Crime and Punishment
3 strikes and your out/Don't mess with Texas!

13 Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
enron?.

14Fraudulent Elections
well the first one at least!.

by L>P> Wed Jan 12, 2005 13:19

Hobsbawm in the Age of Extremes breaks them ( Hitler Et al.) into three distinct groups and does support the thesis that Franco was not a Fascist but rather an extreme traditionalist and nationalist. He says that Italian corporatism is the true form and that Nazism is also distinctly different due to the fact of the incredibly counter productive and irrational policies in relation to business in the late thirties formard. its just a different take and he does highlight some quite large differences between the three forms