Dublin City Council BIDs to "get rid of graffitti": audio

by saoririseoir Wed Mar 01, 2006 16:13

Business Improvement District (update proposed by Michael Donnelly (FF).

Christie Burke and another Councillor object to seeing this on the agenda again.

3:38 Tom Coffee (Dublin City Business Association) explains what is meant by a BID.

general support
12:00 Vincent Jackson (Ind).
14:30 Paschal Donohue (FG).
16:30 Andrew O’Connell (SF).
17:30 Naoise Ó Muirí (FG).
17:50 ?Michael Donnelly (FF)
18:12 Daithí Doolan (SF)

20:16 Michael Conaghan (Lab) wants talented Irish designers to improve bland city shop-fronts.

22:40 Michael Rafferty (Ind). Blandness too

anti-graffitti element highlighted and commended.
24:00 Anne Carter (Lab); unqualified priase. Wants rid of graffitti “a big problem”.

more approvals
25:00 Vincent Jackson (Ind).

26:26 Anne Marie Martin (FG). Likes NY model, good to see business “givin’ somethin’ back to the country”.

27:09 Eibhlin Byrne (FF): + but must go hand in hand with addressing social problems.

28:00 John Gallagher (Lab): + likes that Tom Coffee comes from the area.

28:24 Oisín Quinn (Lab) + but will votes depend on financial contributions (and three other points).

29:35 Mary Fitzpatrick (FF) + but to clarify standards and uniformity.
and will BIDS take over DCC tasks, like street-cleaning?

32:15 Julia Carmichael (FF) + but it must benefit every area in the city, small retailers as well as big.

33:55 Tom Coffee responds.
We must meet standards such as European cities like Brussels (Christmas Market). Dublin city is a civic space, not just a shopping centre. BIDS in US and Canada are all different. There is a learning curve once the first one is started here. Area Management structure will be strengthened, not taking place of council. Cleaner streets, less graffitti, less crime…Residential Communities are invited onto boards of BIDs and they don’t have to pay. Relationship with local community is vital with the establishment of a community fund. We’ve been in the city cente a good while and have loads of long-term commitment to it.
BIDs will revive areas of the city. Secondary streets will become the incubation ground for the next high-street businesses of the future (like in the US). Tourist surveys have their limitations. High standard of street furniture. We’ll have to buy a third graffitti machine. If we paint on side of buildings, graffitti artists don’t like defacing other artists work, so this’ll stop ‘em…

Here are some exmples of what the good Councillors are objecting to.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74492

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74345

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74182

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/73846

and that’s just 2006. A more comprehensive collection of this decade’s street-art is also archived on www.indymedia.ie

to listen to the “debate” check out below link.

42 mins mp3 64kbps

http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/rjs.r.dublincitycoun...s.mp3

by :: : Wed Mar 01, 2006 19:54

What exactly are they? Got any links or examples? What will it entail? Will we actually get to see more art on our streets and grey walls?

by saoririseoir Thu Mar 02, 2006 01:18

Definition of Business Improvement District
For Ireland-related links, google have helpfully provided nine, but three are dead.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=Business+Improvemen...tryIE

In there can be found definitions of BIDs by Irish Independent and RTÉ, but I reckon they're not as specific as the ones above (in print fom myself, and on audio from the horses' mouths).

Here's RTÉ's uncritical stenographer definition anyway:
"A BID is a Public Private Partnership arrangement between a local authority and local businesses, set up to improve the local environment and enhance trade".

A US definition can be found at
http://www.nyc.gov/html/sbs/html/bid.html

Examples
They're not just big in New York City, but other US cities including Chicago and Los Angeles. BIDs came to Britain in the 1970s and Birmingham City cntre is held by Tom Coffee to be a prime example of what they can achieve. (see audio:-).

"What Does it Entail?"

Businesses pay into a fund to "clean up the streets", decide on how an area should be decorated, what sort of public street furniture etc.

Council is let off the democratic hook, and plutocracy steps in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy

Some representation from local communities have been promised by DCBA, but the extent of BID accountability is unclear and no-one is elected by universal suffrage.

If anyon has read "the life and death of American cities" by Susan Jacobs, you might detect something anarchist in a co-operative sorta way, but the proposed partnership with the council gives it our state legitemacy to do whatever their money pays for.

If the current business rates are high enough, this should suffice for interests to be made by the community (albeit through a noddy council).

"Will we actually get to see more art...?"
If you get time to click on the graffitti links supplied above and know that BIDs are against this, the answer would have to be in the negative.

What you might get is some officially-sanctioned, conformist or neutral, greasy pole of Arts Council art.

by some yank not even in érie Thu Mar 02, 2006 01:34

'Businesses pay into a fund to "clean up the streets", decide on how an area should be decorated, what sort of public street furniture etc. '

If it is what I think it is - I have seen the results of this sort of thing in two major american cities - the result is an ultra clean 'nice' area of town while the nearby areas rot.

The point is, this is what taxes are for. If your city govt doesnt clean up the city, then why should the city govt make a seperate 'tax' (volunteer as it supposedly is) for a special people in that city?

naturally this sort of thing creates division and resentment among peoples not involved in the scheme - since the scheme was gotten due to business interests (and only very connected business interests) and not because the community at-large needed it or wanted it.

This is an important point - its not just rich vs poor and all that. Its well connected businness interests vs less connected business interests as well.

If you want to oppose these 'BIDs' I'd suggest gaining the support of the members of the business class that will be cut out of the deal - the streets and neighborhoods on the outer periphery of the BID scheme.

by Noise Hacker Fri Mar 03, 2006 00:47

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by Noise Hacker Fri Mar 03, 2006 00:49

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by Goff Fri Mar 03, 2006 09:26

The term Graffiti is used to cover a very wide range of what gets sprayed onto the side of buildings. The photos above I think can be considered genuine art, as can a good bit of what you see around town. Unfortunately, this kind of work is in the minority. What seriously gets up my nose is tagging. This moronic pastime was imported from the states complete with the style, giant balloon letters in bubblegum colours in as many places as possible. It's the same as carving your name on a school desk with a compass for those who haven't grown up. Taggers aren't adding anything and often tag other artist's work. It's a moronic pastime.

I suppose it would be too much to hope for that DCC will differentiate between the two.

by cry - punk Tue Aug 29, 2006 22:38

screw da scribly stuff and keep da good
or
if da government used dere brains dey wud provide graffiti walls

its just logic
yours
cry