not a racist attack

by Blaise Tue Mar 07, 2006 18:27

Point well taken, Observer. Thanks for that clarification. I agree with you. Many times in these forums one can get carried away with a sentence here or there - without digesting the totality of the commentator's statement. So call me guilty on this point. With the non-national press issue - you have a valid point and having worked for newspapers and magazines in the past, I do understand that these periodicals use race to lift the hairs of their readership wherever they can - and this is probably the case with the article on the foreign shopkeepers. In my own case I am just fed up with gang thuggery so I let my bias hang out - blinding myself to your issue.

Best regards

by Observer Tue Mar 07, 2006 16:53

'why can't any of you show disdain for the gang thuggery of the poor shopkeepers - regardless of their nationality?'

Yes I am condemning this and my 'double standards' mentioning had nothing to do with political issues but was referring to the fact that if a Dubliner and a non-national each got hit with a brick over the head, there would be more coverage and superior treatment for the non-national than there would be for the Dubliner. At the end of the day, if equality exists, we all have a moral responsibility to make sure that its carried out. The violence directed towards all of these people was wrong, thats why I think that (every) one of them deserves the same level of treatment as victims of a violence.

by blaise Tue Mar 07, 2006 16:32

Double standards aside. Your point of non-nationals getting press over Dubliners being bricked over the head, is well taken, and worth noting, but while I can agree with all of you on that one - why can't any of you show disdain for the gang thuggery of the poor shopkeepers - regardless of their nationality? I think it's high time commentators starting seeing both sides of these issues - or all sides. It would be refreshing - and by the way - I'm sick of that lout, Tocfaidh ar la, who goes about these sites name calling. All he accomplishes is riling people up. Maybe that's the whole point, I don't know. But at times, I feel he disgraces the forum, and achieves nothing. I am calling for balance, that's all - all sides of the coin. Is that too much to ask for?

by pat c Tue Mar 07, 2006 16:10

you are correct, thats how it started. a section of the riot squad arrived and indiscriminately attacked a section of the crowd from where fruit had been thrown. this caused a panic and crush in the crowd and about 50 of us ended up on the road and peacefully sat down. the riot gardai then attacked the front ranks of those on the road. this enraged people on the otherside of the road who broke through the barriers. the rest is history.

no need for the side swipe at the 2002 events. people had been on the go for 6 hrs at that stage and were in an open position which lacked the offensive and defensive capabilities of o'connell st.

by Jo Take Tue Mar 07, 2006 15:49

Let's not forget that the first incidents of thuggery took place at the corner of Parnell St when uniformed gardai decided to clear the street for the UVF aligned racists by batoning protestors and bystanders alike. These tactics of thuggery worked when inflicted upon a few middle class protestors as in Dame st in 2002, their attempt to baton people off the streets on Sat 25th backfired spectacularly.

by Observer Tue Mar 07, 2006 15:17

Despite the attacks on these three non-national workers, there was hardly any coverage of the other people who were attacked on the same day as well. I know one Dublin man who was hit with a brick on the head and his case hardly made the coverage in the media but yet the three non-national workers who were set upon did. It was about addressing the double standards where everyone should receive equal treatment and not just non-nationals. Double standards could have been eliminated this way...

by Blaise Mon Mar 06, 2006 22:28

Exactly my point - your point - and the one you wish to drive home - re: the state got it wrong - is fine - and I agree with you - but my point is you are spending far too much time on finding the government wrong - and far less on the thuggery....

by Tiocfaidh Ar La Mon Mar 06, 2006 21:03

Do you not understand English? The whole point is that whatever your opinion on the attack, it wasn't racially motivated as the free state media would have you believe!

TIOCFAIDH AR LA

by Blaise Mon Mar 06, 2006 20:54

The attitude of many of the commentators here appears to side with the perpetrators of these crimes. What does it matter if the victims are non nationals or nationals. It shouldn't, I agree, a victim is a victim and should be treated as such. If one is treated better than the other, then there is something amiss, but the big issue is the brutality which the thugs get away it on a regular basis. Ganging up on innocent people is the most cowardly act of them all. And so what if the worker from the shop came out onto the street with a weapon. Didn't the criminals boldly rob items from the shop and in great numbers appear on the street to swarm the shop clerks. I don't understand how some of these contributors can condone thuggish behaviour like this.

I'm all for social justice, but backing the thugs for their senseless crime will never help any of these leftist causes.

by anon Mon Mar 06, 2006 20:01

one thing that has got no mention is the fact that one of the shop workers came out with a weapon in hand.

by Richey Mon Mar 06, 2006 15:25

Was there any footage of this happening, Observer? Maybe that's why it didn't get covered

Maybe Charlie Bird got so much attention because he's a Protestant, and the Irish media has a pro-Protestant bias...

About as plausible as your claims

Have you won any support for your scumbag extermination programme yet?

by Observer Mon Mar 06, 2006 15:09

The other people who were attacked on the same day, thats who...some pedestrians were set upon and others got hit with rocks on the head. The question was: should they be shunned from receiving any treatment or attention just because they aren't non-nationals?

by Jo Take Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:39

"Thuggery leads nowhere.....They need a good hiding for their mindless savagery. "

Thuggery leads nowhere..but your wish for revenge is the exception eh?

by Dr.Nightdub Mon Mar 06, 2006 01:23

"All the other people"....all WHAT other people Observer? Apart from Charlie Bird and the cops, I don't recall hearing of any other people being attacked by rioters.

by Observer Sun Mar 05, 2006 22:05

Richey,
Where did I say that this attack should be justified?

What I would like to know is if R.Isible thinks that all the other people who were attacked on the same day receive the same justice as these non-nationals who were attacked. Not double standards.

by blaise Sun Mar 05, 2006 21:11

Hats off to fine piece of journalism with interview of shopkeeper who reminds me of a modern-day Leopold Bloom - a gentle soul amidst all this hatred and violence - caring for the lads who work for him - and the brave woman who tried to help out the fallen victims - but the savagery of the beatings by a gang of 20-25 thugs is appalling - appalling because those thugs, in that kind of numbers, are allowed to swarm people on the streets of Dublin. The great class divide is one thing to be looked at in Dublin but this level of brutality cannot be allowed to continue. Any group of young lads who convene to kick and punch innocent people has to be undefended by the normal citizen. There is no bravery in that, nothing to be applauded, no great philosophy to be deduced. It is pure and simple brutality by sick minds. The race issue is far too often concentrated on - when the facts, pure and simple, are before us. Thuggery leads nowhere. I don't care how disenfranchised these people think they are. They need a good hiding for their mindless savagery. There is no revolt here - it is just revolting.

by anon Sun Mar 05, 2006 19:07

this was only attack on people (apart from gardai) caught fully on clear photos that I know of.

ps TV3 did an interview with the two guys at the shop and apart from their wounds they seemed ok.

by Richey Sun Mar 05, 2006 18:36

Sorry Observer, shouldn't you be telling us why "scum" should be exterminated by the state, just like that nice German government did in the thirties?

You're a real gem aren't you - combining a genocidal attitude to Irish "scumbags" with anti-immigrant hysteria. Justin Barrett would be proud of you

by Observer Sat Mar 04, 2006 17:56

Of all the other posts that were posted, noone could give me an answer to the question I asked. And since many people talked about double standards, What about all the other people who were attacked on the same day and who happened not to be non-nationals? All of a sudden they shouldn't receive any humane treatment if they aren't non-nationals. Double standards.... Guess you could say that this is racism but this time toward irish people

by Paul Sat Mar 04, 2006 00:23

isn't it a little fecked up when you are a little relieved that an ignorant asault is not racially motivated

by madamk Fri Mar 03, 2006 23:20

Just to clarify that I was the woman who went to the aid of the workers under attack. I thought people may appreciate an update on the welfare of the shop workers.
Oh... I also was struck by a chair which is visible in the photo`s by a big brave lad!

by R. Isible Fri Mar 03, 2006 23:17

The press (and some posters on indymedia.ie) went on a foaming-mouthed attack against the rioters and tried to smear them as racist just because the people attacked were asian. And your quote appears to be completely random and has nothing to do with your response. Brilliant. Try observing a little harder before you post.

by Observer Fri Mar 03, 2006 23:11

'The man on the right was black and appeared to be running away from the man on left who was white'

What about all the other people who were attacked and who happened not to be non-nationals but who were what some people term 'white'. I suppose it doesn't matter just because they were 'white' but yet if the victims are non-nationals then all of a sudden they should receive some superior treatment different to all the other people who were attacked on the same day..

by R. Isible Fri Mar 03, 2006 21:40 risible at indymedia dot ie

Well done. Is this the first actual follow up by a journalist on this? If so then double well done. The repeated promotion of this incident as being a racist attack reminds me of a recruitment poster the Metropolitan Police used to have in tube stations in London: it showed two men running to the right. The man on the right was black and appeared to be running away from the man on left who was white. I forget the caption, but the idea was that you assumed that the man on the right was a criminal being chased by the policeman and it turned out he was a black undercover.

Anyway, kudos to you for this video, and to the people that intervened to stop the mob from hurting them further (and you're right, the shop manager seems like a nice person).