Protest at Dail a great success today

by Michael McGrath - ODI Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:36 Kennswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland. 0863247628

Do you know where Tara will be, in which of the two new constituences? And which TD/TDs is is the nearest to Tara?

The present 5-seater constituency is obviously split into teo new 3-seaters strategically designed to keep the smaller parties, Sinn Fein, Green Party, Independents etc out .

Do you agree that this is true?

by . Fri Jul 14, 2006 09:55

No, Fine Gael will hold that seat.

The 5 seater constituency is now 2 constiuencies with 3 seats each.

The by-election seat is in Meath East is where the extra 'sixth' seat will be.

The second incumbent is the very poor performing Mary Wallace, TD now Minister.

Dominic Hannigan will take the third one most likely. But the Byelection seat will stay with Shane McEntee - he has no competition in the north of the county.

Mary Wallace and Dominic Hannigan are Ratoath and Ashbourne respectively.

by Michael McGrath - The order of Druids in Ireland (ODI) Fri Jul 14, 2006 04:21 Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland. 086-3247628

If there are enough volunteers available, the protest will go on indefinitely, right up to the General Election when our Flag of Defiance on Tara will see this government routed all across Ireland.

Tara will be a hot issue right across Ireland - we will make sure of that. A hot live issue right throughout the election campaign, which I estimate to be in May 2007.

FF or FG may win that third seat in Meath in the general election (Fine Gael got a loan of it in the By-Election)- but they will lose marginals in Dublin and throughout the country.

For instance FF stands to lose long serving TD M.J. Nolan of Carlow here in Carlow-Kilkenny Constituency, where I can tell you from everyday chatting to the people here that they ARE concerned about Tara - people here have told me in their hundreds - I circulate - that they are totally against the M3 at Tara, including FF councillors and supporters.

BTW Equally Frustrated, this is how I know that the Irish People like Druids, me most of all! How is that for conceit, but it's time you learned the truth!

The self-sacrifice of the volunteer protesters on the Hill of Tara will really focus such voters against the government.

Now see appeal from protester Deb on www.savetaravalley.com

And please help now, today, in any way you can.

People wanted action and leadership in this campaign. Now that you've got it, I hope that the various protest groups will rally round, Tarawatch included, but not V'Salafia.

Thanks,

Michael McGrath.
Archdruid of Tara and Ireland

ODI

by Michael McGrath - The Order of Druids in Ireland Fri Jul 14, 2006 03:59 Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland. 086-3247628

The Action against the M3 at Tara has begun.

Brave volunteers are on the Hill since 21st June last, the Midwinter Solstice.

They are calling for your help:

See Messages on www.savetaravalley.com especially the message from Deb.

See also the Message as published by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain, giving you mobile numbers to phone to meet the protesters when you arrive on Tara.

And let's make this a roasting hot summer for the Government and their NRA - and the OPW too!

See related link for mobile numbers of protesters on the hill.

And this is an ideal opportunity for Indymedia's keen young press photographers to make their names - get out there to Tara by noon today and grab some action shots as the cops under orders from the OPW try to get our brave protesters off the Hill.

by frustratee Fri Jul 14, 2006 03:46

The camp is calling for urgent support, if enough people show up to support them they will try to defy this order and remain camped there until the 2nd of August.

by Michael McGrath - Archdruid of Tara and Ireland (ODI) Fri Jul 14, 2006 03:29 DruidEire at cablenet dot ie Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland 086-3247628

Druids were on the Hill of Tara long long before your time, Equally Frustrated Anonymous sir/lady, they are there now, and they will be there long after all the rest of us have gone.

As an anonymous person you have no right to give orders, and more of a fool would that person be who would take orders from an anonymous person.

You are deliberately turning our campaign against the M3 into a hate campaign against me and the Druids from your anonymous bolt hole.

We are the first to oppose the M3, we are opposing it right now on the Hill while you type on your anonymous keyboard.

The Action has begun!

Meanwhile we are in the process of an ongoing election to elect my successor, a Lady Druid, to succeed me as Archdruid of Tara and Ireland.

As such we are the only fair, free democratic of all the groups protesting against the M3.

We are not just a website as the other protest movements are - we are out there fighting the M3 for real.

And I have news for you - the Irish People love their Druids.

Pearse went out in 1916 as people like you back then poured scorn on him and his men.

Now we will fight the OPW who withdrew from the Hill several years ago, withdrew their Site Clerk, Mr. Gerald Clarke from the Hill (to save on his wages) and have not spent a euro on the Hill since, refusing even to install proper toilet facilites for visitors and tourists who have nowhere to "go".

The present protest on the Hill, not all Druids, are highlighting this, where human beings from all over the world have to squat down on the grass of Tara to relieve themselves

And where drinking water is not even available at a public facility.

The Friends of Tara have sought these basic facilities.for years - and we Druids have solidly backed backed these basic demands.

But the various save tara campaigns would not know anything about this as they came along, and without a by-your-leave jumped on our bandwagon.

You are most welcome - but you could have asked.

And, no, you will not now dictate our campaign.

To repeat, the Irish People love their Druids. In 13 years at "the top" as Archdruid of Tara and Ireland I have never came across a single person in this country, and I have been all over, who said to me or within my hearing, that they disliked Druids.

It seems my friend, Mr. or Mrs. Equally Frustrated that you are on your own.

Oh, sorry, I'm wrong, V.Salafia hates us too -you are in suitable company!

Now I call to all supporters of the Protest on the Hill of Tara to go out to the Hill now, immediately, and support the brave protesters.

They need food, ciggies, drink (non-alcoholic) and any human aid and little comforts that you can bring them as they now take on the oppressive forces of the State out to destroy our saced hill and valley.

Michael McGrath
Archdruid of Tara and Ireland.

ODI

by Equally frustrated Fri Jul 14, 2006 02:48

No idea who they are but I know they are there. It is a real down turn. Its too early for this ...
that is for the future. Hope they are not connected to Salafia. Another strand to his bow? Maybe.
Onward the political campaign
without the druids?

by Equally frustrated Fri Jul 14, 2006 02:05

There is a load of campers holed up at Tara since the Solstice. There till August 2nd apparently.
Have the 'no bulldozers' protests started? Nobody told anybody. This is absolutely mad at this stage and the worst thing that could happen. It is far too early. The locals who walk the hill every day/evening will go mad with the campaign after this. Get them out of there.

by Michael McGrath - The Order of Druids in Ireland Fri Jul 14, 2006 00:34 DruidEire at cablenet dot ie Kennswell, Kilkenny, Ireland. 086-3247628

All these planning appeals are all very fine - at 20 bucks a time. To save Tara we must have elected leaders. As I write we Druids are in the middle of an election to elect the next Archdruid of Tara as my successor, showing that we Druids are the only democrats in the entire anti M3 save Tara protest. None of the leaders of the other protest groups are elected, certainly not V.Salafia of the 3 or 4 member Tarawatch. Do you not have confidence in your members> Are you afraid that they will reject you. To us Druids that seems to be the case. You have no mandate from anybody until you are elected. So go and get yourself elected!

by Vincent - TaraWatch Thu Jul 13, 2006 01:26 legal at tarawatch dot org

The matters you raised will be on the agenda for the next group meeting. FOr information on meetings contact Colin at secretary@tarawatch.org

TaraWatch is concerned about planning permissions and is preparing an objection. The more groups that object the better. That is one of the positive aspects of having so many protest groups of diferent sorts, just as it is good having a variety of academic organisations opposed. Each group, is unique, and has a different focus and style. Another group did a press release on the matter, so we assume it was handled. We did direct our members to this thread, where there is information on how to lodge objections.

However, TaraWatch is mainly concerned with the planning permission for the M3, which was ,in our opinion, essentially given by Dick Roche, in May 2004. We are support litigation taken to reverse that, and are also in talks to try and undo it by political decision. We are ogranising events, just like other people are organising events, and all are welcome to join.

If you would like to read about the legal issues involved, and the possibilities of success, please take a look at the following article:
http://hilloftara.blogspot.com/2005/12/irish-environmen....html

There is a lot to be done. We are going to focus on the EU apsects of the matter now, which means digitising hundreds of documents and drafting a long and detailed complaint. We are also going to focus on the legal aspects of the Supreme Court appeal.

Someone asked for a meeting on Tara. Well there is one. It is being given by the NRA on July 19 and will be an opportunity for all groups to focus their energy in the right direction.

TARA - Archaeology on the M3- a talk by chief archaeologist Mary Deevey, National Roads Authority, Visitors Centre, 8pm.

by Equally frustrated Thu Jul 13, 2006 00:46

Perhaps Tarawatch would like to respond to the measured dialogue going on in the thread on the planning permissions in the Gabhra Valley? The idea of a meeting of all groups is being mooted - would they agree to the conditions and ideas put forward? They don't seem interested ... surely only good can come of this? Why no response to this thread?

by press - TaraWatch Wed Jul 12, 2006 23:30

Campaigners turn up heat over Tara road protest

Opposition to proposed motorway along historical site continues

by David Lynch

07/11/2006

http://www.dailyireland.com/home.tvt?_ticket=Q4MVO099CH...opp=1

Campaigners opposed to a new motorway route via the Tara Valley, have shelved plans to form a new political party.

TaraWatch has told Daily Ireland it wants opposition parties to “come out clearly against the road”.

“We are particularly happy with the clear stance taken by the Green Party and Sinn Féin against the road,” said TaraWatch spokeswoman Siobhán Rice.

“However, we also want clear statements from Labour and Fine Gael.

“We are a bit worried about where Labour have been standing on the issue lately.

“We have been worried that they are sitting on the fence.”

However, TaraWatch welcomed news that Labour MEP Proinsias De Rossa is to meet the European Union petitions committee and that “Tara and the M3 motorway is on the agenda”.

“We want all opposition parties to come together and make Tara a real election issue. You do not really get much bigger issues than this.

“Tara has been compared to the Valley of the Kings in Egypt and other such sites.

“This is something that everyone who cares about our heritage should be worried about,” Ms Rice said.

She also called for “independent archaeologists” to be brought onto the route of the proposed motorway.

TaraWatch is campaigning to “save the Tara archeological complex”.

The group wants changes to the planned route for the M3 motorway that will connect Cavan and Dublin.

At a protest outside Leinster House last week, the leading TaraWatch member Vincent Salafia mooted the idea of forming a new party.

He said TaraWatch was considering doing this if the mainstream parties did not make Tara an election issue.

TaraWatch said yesterday that the “strong showing of support from the Green Party, Sinn Féin and the Labour Party, as well as independent Oireachtas members, partly as a result of the protest, has negated the need for such a move”.

Ms Rice said, “We are delighted to see this clear showing of support and look forward to engaging in meaningful, constructive discussions with opposition parties, including Fine Gael, over the summer.

“We hope to find a solution that can best protect our heritage and deliver badly needed relief for the commuters of Meath.

“Mr Salafia has indicated that he may be willing to withdraw his Supreme Court appeal if the matter is handed over to consultants for an independent third-party assessment, which could be performed in a few short months.

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:50 events at tarawatch dot org 086-319-9833

Meath Chronicle
What's on, When, Where,

WEDNESDAY, 19th JULY

TARA - Archaeology on the M3 - a talk by chief archaeologist Mary Deevey, National Roads Authority, Visitors Centre, 8pm.

===

TaraWatch is calling for a peaceful demonstration at the talk to be given by Mary Deevy. TaraWatch wants to know why no independent archaeologist's are allowed to inspect any of the 38 sites that have already been uncovered.

We want to know how many more new sites have been discovered?

We object to the current schme of development which allows the NRA to decide what and what is not a national monument.

We also wish to remind the public that the National Museum, the Heritage Council, the Discovery Programme, the Archaeological Institute of America, the European Association of Archaeologists, and hundreds of other archaeolgists worldwide have objected to the works now being carried out.

Finally, are also very concerned about their use of heavy machinery , ie mechanical diggers, which we believe is against the Code of Practice.

Let's make this a concerted effort.

by Gabriel Murray - Returning Officer, AD Tara Election Tue Jul 11, 2006 23:51

Apologies:

That shoud read:

Nominations close on Wednesday 19th July at Noon, not on 19 June. Slip of the pen.

Gabriel Murray
Independent Returning Officer
Election for position: Archdruid of Tara and Ireland.

Nominations per registered post now invited:

Gabriel Murray
Returning Officer,
Druid House
18 Kickham Street,
Kilkenny City,
Ireland.

PS: thank you Indymedia for assisting me in my duties by publishing election arrangements. I am determined that this election, as all I ever participate in, shall be free, fair, democratic and above board.;

by Michael McGrath - The Order of Druids in Ireland Tue Jul 11, 2006 23:06 DruidEire at cablenet dot ie ODI HQ, Druid Kouse, 18 Kickham Street, Kilkenny City, Ireland, 086-3247628

Those Lady Druids wishing to to contest election for the position of Archdruid of Tara, should be nominated by an Irish Druid Order or Irish Druid grove, or by an Irish Druid of Good Standing.

Nominations should be addressed by registered post to:

The AD Tara and Ireland, Druid House, 18 Kickham Street, Kilkenny City, to arrive not later than Wednesday 19th July 2006 at Noon.

All applications will be acknowledged and candidates accepted immediately by return of post (registered).

Gabriel Murray, Independent
Duly Appointed Returning Officer.

Michael McGrath,
Suerintending Registrar of Elections

by Michael McGrath - The order of Druids in Ireland (ODI) Tue Jul 11, 2006 21:48 "Lisieux", 13 St. Teresa's Terrace, Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland. 086-3247628

At a three-hour meeting in Kilkenny on Monday afternoon, 10th July, the Chiefs of three Irish Druid Orders met in Conference. Widespread agreement was reached on a range of topics.

Complete agreement was agreed on the Tara protests in which it was unanimously agreed that consulation with the local residents, as represented by the Friends of Tara and other local residents associations in the area, must be a prerequisite of any and all events and protests on the Hill of Tara.

The desecration of the graveyard at Tara by Con Connor and his group of new agers at midnight on the solstice, 21st June 2006, was denounced by the Chiefs in Council.

Con had refused to come to the meeting to defend himself - he was given that opportunity last week and refused, and also refused to send a message in his defence. (he made an excuse that he cannot communicate and is gone into retreat as Mercury has turned retrograde - excuse found unnacceptable by the Meeting).

Until such time as he does so, and stops running away from his reponsibilities, he shall be denied access to the Councils of his Peers in Irish Druidry.

Alarm was expressed too, when allegations against Con Connor by V. Salafia of spitting on the statue of St. Patrick at Tara were found to be true.

Greater alarm was expressed that Con Connor is profiterring from a correspondence course that he is offering to the tune of 1000 to 2000 euros a head!

Archdruid McGrath, who hosted the meeting, stated that Con is 'cogging' from books such as "Pi in the Sky" by Druid Michael Poynder and that he is in breach of copyright - a matter for author Michael Poynder himself, who is being notified.

All in all the meeting felt that Irish Druidry is being badly served by Con Connor, who in fact hails from Somerset in England, and who up to three years ago was calling himself "a wizard".

Con Connor is a relative newcomer to Druidry.

Archdruid McGrath and the meeting, which included ODI ArchScribe, the author, artist, film-maker and architect Gabriel Murray, were pleased to hear that a popular, highly respected, and well qualified Lady Druid has made herself available as a candidate for election to succeed as Archdruid of Tara and Ireland.

She was nominated unanimously by the Druid Chiefs present.

Nominations are now open and applications invited from suitably qualified Lady Druids - they themselves will know whether they are qualified or not!

Nominations close at Noon on Wednesday 19th June. Should there be then only one candidate by that time and date, she shall be declared elected unopposed.

Nominations are now invited, opening at 10 a.m. on Wednesday, 12th July.

Should there be more than one candidate an election shall be declared, to last no more than ten days, so that the victorious new Archdruid of Tara and Ireland shall be known before The Festival of Lughnasadh.

In fairness to the candidates none of their identities shall be made known, so that the losing candidates shall not be known to the media.

The meeting adjourned in the hope that the lay protest groups against the M3 at Tara will unite as solidly against that road as the Druids did at Monday's meeting and continue to do.

Unity of campaign amongst Irish Druids against the M3 Motorway is now solid.

Michael McGrath,

(caretaker) Archdruid of Tara and Ireland.

Those present at the Meeting:

Michael McGrath, AD Tara and Ireland.
Dr. James K.E. Dwyer, Chosen Chief ODI (represented).
Gina McGarry, Speaker, Conradh Draoithe na hEireann, The Convocation of Druids in Ireland.
Melvy Lloyd, Chief of the Hibernian Order of Druids (H.O.O.D.).
Jane Lloyd, Traditional Witchcraft.
Gabriel Murray, ArchScribe ODI, Author, Artist, Film-maker and Architect.

ENDS.

by Vincent - TaraWatch Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:11 legal at tarawatch dot org

Tara Motorway 20/2/2006
WRITTEN QUESTION E-4966/05
by Proinsias De Rossa (PSE)
to the Commission
http://www.derossa.com/asp/showdoc.asp?ID=1485&AREA=35

Further to its answer of 29 September 2005 to my question E-3004/05 and its meeting on 20 October which discussed this matter, what action has the Commission taken or is it considering taking with regard to the complaint files open in relation to the construction of a motorway through the Tara-Skryne in Meath?

E-4966/05EN
Answer given by Mr Dimas
on behalf of the Commission
(10.2.2006)

Following assessment of the information made available to the Commission in relation to this project, the construction of a motorway through the Tara-Skyrne valley in County Meath, it was not possible to establish that a breach of EU legislation had occurred. On this basis, the decision was taken that the complaints be closed.

Does anyone know how many complaints were filed, and by whom?

by Christine - TaraWatch Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:03 events at tarawatch dot org 086-164-3621

Tara Sessions, the weekly gig and meeting continues tonight, Tuesday, at Dice Bar, Dublin, which is on the corner of Benburb and Abbey Street, Dublin. Admission free

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77160

by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain - Save Tara Tue Jul 11, 2006 00:57 muireann at savetara dot com

Here is my draft at present, it should give some ideas. I'm not qualified to address the nitty-gritty of the application but you could mention noise, dirt, lorries - the usual problems that would be associated with a recycling plant that deals with building material.
If people want to email me feel free, its with this. Also visit the Yahoo site - website to follow asap. Muireann Ni Bhrolchain

58, Laurence Avenue,
Maynooth,
Co Kildare.

A chara,
I wish to lodge an objection to the Planning Application No. NA60204 made on behalf of JMP Construction on the land at Philpotstown, Garlow Cross, Navan, County Meath. This is land that has already got planning permission for ‘land improvement’.

This type of development is entirely unsuitable and inappropriate for such a rural and culturally rich area. I wish to object on the following grounds:

(i) Archaeological/historical
This application is located in the heart of the Gabhra Valley between the two hills of Tara and Skryne that constitutes Tara’s hinterland. It is only 1525m from the Hill of Tara and it will permanently degrade the archaeological landscape of the area adjacent to the Gabhra River itself in the area of Dillon’s Bridge School. This Valley is recognized as an area of high archaeological importance lying as it does at the very foot of the hill and it is part of the extended landscape of Tara. The proposed site for the recycling facility lies immediately adjacent to the proposed M3-N3 motorway interchange at Blundelstown / Castletown Tara at the foot of the Hill of Tara.
This is part of the very area that has been recognized by various reports provided to Meath County Council as being of the highest archaeological significance and sensitivity and should be treated with the greatest care.
In 2000 the NRA commissioned Route Selection Report by Halcrow Barry said about this area in relation to the chosen route of the motorway that is approximately 100m away from the proposed site:
“The effect of this route on the Hill of Tara and on its outlying monuments is profound and would have severe implications from an archaeological perspective. It is unlikely that cost-effective proposals to meet the mitigation requirements could be supported for this route in this area”. (pp 44-5)
“This combination of routes is perhaps that which comes closest to the largest number of known archaeological sites”. (p 46)
In 2000 the NRA commissioned report from Margaret Gowen’s archaeological company says:
“The monuments around Tara cannot be viewed in isolation, or as individual sites, but must be seen in the context of an intact archaeological landscape, which should not under any circumstances be disturbed, in terms of visual or direct impact on the monuments themselves”.
And again: “No mitigation would remove the effects of this route on the Hill of Tara or on its outlying monuments. It would have extremely severe implications from an archaeological perspective”.
As the proposed site for this development lies so close to the Blundelstown interchange, the closest point at which the M3 would come to Tara, this advice must be taken on board when considering this application.

(ii) Contradiction of Minister Roche’s directions
This development directly contradicts the directions that were given by Minister Roche when he allowed the archaeological excavations to go ahead on May 11th 2005. As part of those directions he said that he intended to protect the
‘as a statutory consultee on individual planning applications he intends ensuring that heritage protection remains a priority in this area.’ (press release 13/05/05)
In regard to the concerns about the interchange the Minister said:

’The Minister also raised with the NRA the general visual impact of the
interchange. The NRA has responded with details of an extensive
landscaping scheme using a combination of extensive, mainly indigenous,
woodland areas and earth bunds aimed at better integrating the
interchange into the surroundings.
A further issue of concern related to how any future development would
be controlled on the lands between the proposed road and the existing
N3.’
This is precisely the area in which this completely inappropriate development is to be located. The Minister also said that his Department would engage with Meath County Council to ensure that:
’appropriate policy objectives are contained in the new development plan, currently in preparation, to protect the rural character, setting and archaeological heritage of the landscape in the vicinity of Tara and the new motorway.’

(iii) This proposal breaches the Meath County Council Draft Development Plan
As the new Meath County Council Draft Development Plan lists protection of such areas among its key objectives, this development will breach these objectives. The Minister again addressed this issue and stated the he would:
’consider using his statutory powers under the Planning
Act 2000 to direct the Council amend their development plan’.
If this application is permitted it will both breach the instructions given by the Minister and open the way for ribbon development of the type that Minister Roche assured the public would not happen.
Related Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/savetara/

by proTara Mon Jul 10, 2006 20:17

If the passion exhibited in this thread were all directed in one direction what a mighty force it would be. Now is the time to have a high meeting of all groups, all interests.

This meeting, however, must be of individual hearts united for Tara. Politics and agendas must be put aside. Go ahead and identify your party/religious afffiliation, because reps from all parties united would be a strength, but do not claim Tara's preservation from any standpoint other than what you personally believe to be right.

Can a meeting be held at Tara? If not, can someone offer a place to meet? Once a place is found, please provide at least two weeks for the word to get out (too many meetings/protests have not had sufficient notice).

At the meeting, everyone should already have their own ideas and concerns written down, reflecting personal observations, not the agenda of any prior group. Be prepared to speak. Be prepared to vote for leadership among those attending. Be flexible.

Until a high meeting is held, the splintering will only grow worse.

by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain - Save Tara Mon Jul 10, 2006 16:24

The best place to get information on the sites and the archaeology in general is from the NUI Galway site where Joe Fenwick keeps the information flowing. http://www.nuigalway.ie/archaeology/Tara_M3.html. There are detailed maps etc there as well.

His articles on archaeology in the Valley have been posted on the Save Tara Yahoo Group.

by Chris Murray - The Unmanageables Mon Jul 10, 2006 16:10

at the top of the newswire-

The time for objections is upcoming.

other local groups involved in citizen awareness of the SIB legislation are also located in the
meath /navan area, THPG has been running workshops on SIB and consultative process (the one size fits allremedy of the PPP structure/stricture)

Tara is open and beautiful and people should visit with their kids and family as often as possible.

38 , currently excavated sites are under threat in2007, including Baronstown1 . The info is on various Threads to do with the Tara issue. info on court proceedings and the third cancellation of Dominic dunnes case re legislation (16th feb 06) the day of the launch of the Planning and Development Act
by Minister Roche TD. Joe fenwick has been covering some of the archaelogical descriptions of the sites in the village magazine over the last months also.

by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain - Save Tara Mon Jul 10, 2006 16:02 muireann at savetara dot com

Yes indeed, anyone can make a submission. You do not have to live in Meath. I'm in Kildare for example. Muireann

by Andy Mon Jul 10, 2006 15:49

Thanks for the detailed info and link. One question: can someone make a submission even if they are not a resident of Meath, or of Ireland?

by Andy Mon Jul 10, 2006 15:38

For the record, I don't think that Vincent's statement was "airy fairy" merely that the article implied it was. We can disagree about the implications, no problem. We agree about the important part: Tara.

by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain - Save Tara Mon Jul 10, 2006 15:08 muireann at savetara dot com 087-9249510

Hi all involved in this thread, please can we concentrate on the present problem? The planning permissions?
It appears that everyone here is more intent on fighting or slapping each other on their respective backs. Interesting that hardly anyone has even reacted to the planning issue, no comments on that story. Speaks for itself.
While you argue the Valley is being threatened. If you do not know the area you should all visit it and see how close this latest application is to the TOP of the Hill.
If you are interested in Tara - this is something positive that you can do.
On another note, there are two EU complaints being dealt with today as we speak. Proinsias de Rossa is addressing this issue.
Another related point, I believe that the latest Carrickmines judgement is due on July 28th and that will have a serious bearing on the Tara case.
Muireann

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Mon Jul 10, 2006 14:48

You have a right to your own opinion. If you think that somebody who risks everything he owns in order
to fight the NRA and various government agencies through to the supreme court, can be justifiably described as "airy fairy" so be it.

As you are well aware we have enough do to and to deal with, without this kind of petty arguement. If you so wish, you are welcome to meet us at the Dice Bar tomorrow.

The meeting tonight will be a closed meeting for members only ( and Micheal, that does not apply to you!)

This is a direct result of the unfair backstabbing coments coming from those who hide behind a shield of Anonomity. At least Micheal had the guts to finally, reveal his true identity!

It is hugely disheartening and extremely discouraging to see all the work we have been doing been thrown back in our faces, by those who claim to be on Tara's side.This is espeically true for Vincent who has been relentlessly challanging the Government on this issue for many years now.

If you want really care about Tara, go and do something about, with or without us. But slinging hurtfull demeaning remarks at those who are actually protecting her, is not aiding Tara's plight.

We at TaraWatch are a dedicated, sincere and commited team. Your mud slinging ( and I dont include
you in this Andy) will only serve to make us stronger and more dedicated.

UNITED WE STAND....

by Equally frustrated Mon Jul 10, 2006 14:46

Is unity possible between all these disparate groups? Tarawatch seems to have eyes only for the SavetheValley group. That cuts out anyone else. Is unity possible under the leadership of one individual? Division has been the feature of this campaign and of Carrickmines as I have said before and there is one common denominator. I do not believe that unity is possible in certain circumstances as some people foster and feed from disunity. Be careful Tarawatch

by Colin O'Byrne - Tarawatch Mon Jul 10, 2006 14:24

Good afternoon all. I've been reading with much interest the debate and slander which Friday's protest and comments have garnered on these pages. Top marks to Indymedia for the forum. It seems to me that alot of the comments are more to do with personalities and less to do with direction and unity. Why is it that a body of well-meaning people can be so nasty and derogatory to each other? I know it sounds simplistic in the extreme but the simple truth is that by fighting each other we are simply acting by proxy for the those who would attack us anyway. This is a waste of energy. The task ahead of us is huge but not impossible and the only way that we can hope to achieve our good goal is by doing our best to keep onside with each. We don't all have to be friends but a little bit of respect and constructive criticism would help us all personally and collectively. There is still a long way to go and a lot more work on top of that but it is not beyond us. I wouldn't be giving my time and effort if I didn't believe that, in the end, we will save Tara but to do this we need to stand side by side and not by engaging in playground politics with blades in our mouths as we lie in wait for each other in the long grass.

by Andy Mon Jul 10, 2006 14:08

Siobhan, you need to read more carefully it IS the context that subtly implies that Salafia's argument is actually "airy fairy". (not true, but...) It's used as the transistion to the next statement. so the connection is there. I'm not misreading it. Trust me, it is these kinds of statements that cut against the positive press you want to generate, instead. I wouldn't use it as a positive example by any means.

An effective campaign must cut against this sort of misrepresentation as much as any. We lose in small ways.

But enough from me, I don't want to be lumped in with the bashers by you or anyone else.

by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain - Save Tara Mon Jul 10, 2006 13:41 muireann at savetara dot com Kildare 087-9249510

I've just posted a story on the planning permissions that are lodged for the Gabhra Valley. This is a lot more important than arguing to and fro here.
Let's keep our eye on the Valley that will be covered by development if we are not careful as we argue among ourselves as to who leads the campaign.
This latest one is right at the proposed interchange and only 1525m from the Hill of Tara.
Its the Valley that really needs saving ...

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Mon Jul 10, 2006 13:10

Hi 'andy'

Once again you seek to project your own personal bias into this situation, and twist the facts.

Let's put the quote in context:

"Others just say it’s a beautiful place that shouldn’t be disfigured. “It is an area of natural beauty, and that’s part of the essence of the monument,” said Salafia. “It is important that it has legal protection as well; it’s not just about protecting rocks.”

Such “airy-fairy” arguments prompt Michael Egan, the NRA’s head of corporate affairs, to tear out his hair. “We have to live in the real world,” he insists. “There are 120,000 archeological monuments in Ireland, and hundreds of thousands more beneath the surface. It’s impossible to stick a spade in the ground without hitting something of value.”

It is not the Times saying "airy fairy", it is a quote from Michael Egan of the NRA. I'm sad to see you seem to side with him on what is a valid argument made by Vincent.

You still haven't shown me any negative articles.

by Andy Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:17

Siobhan asked:
“What obvious disdain? I have never seen one article critical of him, in fact many have been complimentary, for example http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2091-1512769,00....html "

Except Siobhan that this very article calls Salafia’s argument “airy fairy”, not exactly complimentary, is it? Now whose premise is, by your logic, false?

This is the tone that most coverage in the Irish papers seems to take. The very title of the article you quote in the initial post, above, ‘Tara protesters may contest next election” seems a direct jab at Vincent’s faulty and misstated logic.(it made me laugh; I thought it was a joke) His statements imply that a protest party has “support on the ground”, but, Siobhan, your numbers don’t back this up in any concrete sense. Yes 70% agree, but they’re not acting on the agreement, sadly. Plus Vincent’s tirade against the government, “vow” about a protest party” etc., make him look awkward alongside the more direct, cogent statements by Cuffe and Gregory, don’t you think? It’s good to be positive, but to have and maintain credibility, it must also be realistic. This is my considered observation.

Like Pat, I just want the route rerouted. I can do without all of the 5-year old histrionics. And, yes, Siobhan, my advice about staying above the fray applies to everyone, really, but as the appointed spokesperson for a group, you bear a greater burden to see it through.

“Libelous content” sounds suspiciously like “critical of Vincent”. The problem with libel is that the one being slandered does not have opportunity to counter the unfair attack, not that it exists, so if such editing is being done on your mailing list, that is censorship, in my experience. Perhaps someone other than Vincent should moderate the list to ensure that there is less potential conflict of (self) interest? He who controls the media, controls the message, after all. This also undermines public image, and distracts from the purpose of the group.

I hope you think carefully about the points I’ve made. I require no response, as the details you have patiently and kindly provided have helped me to see this situation clearly. Thank you, and good luck in your efforts.

PS The letter from Colin was brilliant

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Mon Jul 10, 2006 08:52

TaraWatch members were specifically asked to write a letter to the papers last week, comparing the Minister's treatment of Tara and Woodstown. See the message in detail at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hilloftara/message/1011 Well done Colin!

WOODSTOWN AND TARA

Irish Times - Letter to the Editor
Mon, Jul 10, 06

Madam, - I find it most bemusing to read Minister for the Environment Dick Roche's positively gushing comments about the Viking Site in Woodstown, Waterford and its 1,000 year history (The Irish Times, July 6th).

While I am in no doubt that the find is of great archaeological and cultural significance, it is a mere adolescent compared with the more ancient and certainly more significant Tara-Skryne complex. And with all due respect to our Viking brothers and the fine heritage they bequeathed us, Tara of the Kings was Tara of the Irish Kings.

If Mr Roche can go out of his way to declare Woodstown a national monument, so that part of a ring road had to be re-routed around the site, surely he can do the same for the Tara-Skryne valley and avoid an international, disgrace.

There is no denying that the hard-pressed people of Meath and beyond are in desperate need of a road (among other transport options) that alleviates their double dose of daily suffering when commuting to and from Dublin, but there are better options than the route the Minister and the NRA so stubbornly favour. - Is mise,

COLIN O'BYRNE,
Donnycarney,
Dublin 5.

by Robbie - 1 of Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group Mon Jul 10, 2006 03:07

I recommend that contributors to this troll-fest read our Editorial Guidelines in the link below, and not be wasting our time, their time, and the readers' time.

by Michael McGrath - Tarawatch Mon Jul 10, 2006 02:47 Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland. 056-3247628

Let's start the ball rolling with Letters to the Editor of the Meath Chronicle, other newspaers that circulate in the area and along the Meath border lands, emails to political programmes on LMFM in Drogheda - they were always great to us druids.

If I can find a few druids who will wear a collar and tie, we'll train them and get them around the doors, after all they won't save the hill by siiting on their asses on it as some are doing right now!

The canvassers have to look like normal everyday people - most of ours don't!

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Mon Jul 10, 2006 02:45

At last some interesting advice, although your last advice a few days ago was for Vincent to run in Bertie's constitutiency.

Why do you want to portray yourself as a member? We never met you. You joined our mailing ist, which has 566 members, a few weeks ago and were removed for abusive posts. Obviously you snuck in again. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hilloftara/

by Equally frustrated Mon Jul 10, 2006 02:42

Pat makes sense too.Good to hear voices of reason.
The march was a good rallying point by the way - what about another one?
It seemed to bring everyone together, not best organised or publicised but then with the media against Tara, what is?
And canvassing in Meath? I'm not there any more but family are and really angry about this but they feel helpless and are banking on a change of Government to save Tara. I'm a sceptic in this area myself ...

by Pat - TaraWatch and Others Mon Jul 10, 2006 02:33

I am a member of TaraWatch. I am a member simply because I want to save Tara. I am also a member of some other groups who also want to save Tara. I don't care who the 'personalities' are in these campaigns, or what the histories of relationships are, or who-said-what-to-whom; what matters is that we are all facing down the same road with our aims and objectives. Personally, I feel that the only way to save Tara is to take it to Europe, because the Govt. forces, and those with lots of money/power, (but no morals), are too great a force to be reckoned with.

I think its sad, and rather pathetic, that egos are clashing in what should be one single campaign. There are many reasons why we should save our Treasure, and all those threads can be woven together. We are adults (?), lets be PROFESSIONAL about this.

And 15 people are better than none.

Pat.

P.S If anyone is thinking of verbally attacking me, forget it - I won't be drawn in.

by Michael McGrath - Tarawatch Mon Jul 10, 2006 02:29 Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland. 086-3247628

When Fianna Failers are unhappy with the Party, we stay at home, or go out and vote for a Fianna Fail candidate who we know hasn't a chance - you can do that in five seaters like Carlow-Kilkenny here, or Meath. For instance here I am only going to vote for two of the three Fianna Fail TDs, as the third guy hasn't done a day's work since he was elected last time out. (I'm not going to say which two I shall be voting for.

But if I were a Fianna Fail supporter in Meath, and disagreed over tara, I would definitely go out and vote in order of my preference, which in my case would be: Sinn Fein 1, Greens 2, Labour 3 - and then any mini parties, Independents after that.

And I would vote ten times over, and even risk getting caught, to save Tara.

Anyway there is another Fianna Fail outlook that "ah well, maybe our lads could do with a spell in Opposition, 'twill do them no harm at all."

Now, Practically we would have to start canvassing door-to-door in October so as to have the whole of Meath covered. We'll need electoral registers, copies of which SF, Greens and Labour will gladly give us - naturally!

They would give us all their canvassing literature too.

And we could hand out leaflets of our own door-to-door as well.

That door-to-door canvass is lethal, it is feared, it's the Engine of the Machine!

And you know how to canvass with the register - you look at the register, see the names: and give a beaming "Hello Jane" when she comes to the door. Nine times out of ten, that way, you will get the name right. When you don't you make a remark of her looking younger or something like that! You know the style.

Labour and to a lesser extent, Sinn Fein, are brilliant at that and will educate our activists in such ploys.

The Greens are too honest and up-in-the-clouds to use it.

And as you come from Meath you could canvass your own area?

by Equally frustrated Mon Jul 10, 2006 02:06

I do agree. The people of Meath do not want Tara destroyed either but they're not very fond of either Salafia, the Connor druid guy or indeed Percy for different and varied reasons. (My family are from Meath by the way - probably should have said that before.)
A campaign with integrity and decent political, academic and local backing will win out in Meath. Remember - the FF/PD back benchers and even darling Dempsey is under attack. That's why Mary Wallace and not Sean Haughey got the junior.
That is why the idea of a new party and the prospect of Salafia running is such a crazy idea and the death knell for Tara - if its not over already.
When the bull dozers go in its too late. All the activists here will not stop it then. Build on what you have and don't let the bulldozers start.
What bothers me here is why is a Fianna Failer druid giving us advice on how to save Tara? Against his own party?
There are plenty of activists in the political parties that the druid mentions that would help as well. Bet Tarawatch hasn't asked, after all, their only support is who? The screamers on the Hill? Oh dear! What a daunting prospect. Bertie must be quaking in his shoes if that's the campaign ...

by Michael McGrath - Tarawatch Mon Jul 10, 2006 01:30 DruidEire at cablenet dot ie Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland. 086-3247628

Yes, Siobhain, please listen to Andy (I don't know him). And everybody will unite, and I mean everybody, nobody 'discarded' or censored as in the past three months. Tarawatch is so important. As 'Equally Frustrated' agrees, concentrate on Meath - Meath is the Key.

Under P.R. a Labour/Sinn Fein/Green Party candidate can take that third seat - if that happens the ceiling will fall in on Fianna Fail/Fine Gael over the M3, Tara will be saved!

I estimate that working together - and canvassing for a candidate to be elected in Meath from any one of those three parties, we have a 50/50 chance.

We will have to start knocking on doors throughout Meath with our literature and asking people to vote Green candidte, Sinn Fein candidate and Labour candidate, one two, three in order of your choice.

Having spent half my life in smoke-filled FF backrooms, I simply know that will work.

And while we are doing it 'my friend' Bertie - and Enda too - will be horrified, and really frightened!

That's my idea anyway, for what it's worth.

The ground will shake if that seat that Bertie and Enda are fighting for - it goes back and forth between FF and FG - goes to a minor party candidate.

There are activists here in indymedia who know exactly what I'm talking about, and will show you how to pull it off.

Oiche mhaith agus codhladh samh, Siobhain.

You'll need it because you and brave colleagues will have to ask Vincent an important question in the morning - or even present him with an ultimatum.

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Mon Jul 10, 2006 01:15

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the measured response.

>Yes, I’m well aware of the court case brought by Mr. Salafia. Agreed that that effort is critical, not to dismiss it. My question is more to the obvious disdain with which he is viewed by the media.

What obvious disdain? I have never seen one article critical of him, in fact many have been complimentary, for example http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2091-1512769,00....html Your subsequent comments are based on this false premise, and are therefore irrelevant. Vincent was PRO and succeeded in this position in the now definct STSV in getting this into the national and international media.

>The feeling I get is “look what this idiot is doing/saying now”, which would seem to cast aspersions on any group he’s affiliated with, especially in such a prominent role.

Thankis for your worry but it is really unfounded. Please show me something to that effect.

>Based on his contributions here, I’d say he’s a loose cannon, largely concerned with his own self-image, which, lawsuit aside, has obviously become a distraction to the aims of your group. I’d consider that a huge liability.

Today is the first day this has become an issue, and judged by the small number of people making the attacks, I don't think it is a major problem. Naturally, he is to be concerned with image to an extent, because it is important to have someone with credibility to speak. He has that, as a trained lawyer, and seasoned campaigner.

>I’m glad to hear that a few politicians have stepped up, but seriously, I doubt it was due to the protest. Not to bash, glad some made the effort. Hope you ask yourselves “why” without finger-pointing.

We planned a limited action to achieve a specific result. We wanted to remind the Oireachtas members that Tara IS on the minds of Irish people, and wanted to offer politicians an opportunity to address that. We also wanted to make sure that Tara IS an election issue. It has been a long time since anyone has given them such an oportunity, because there has been no campaign group in the public domain for over a year. It is striking how as soon as one pops up it is immediately attacked by those who say they care so much, but have done nothing for so long.

>Clearly, though, you have not yet been able to reach that 75% who support a different route. I’d say with your “leader” going off about a “protest party”, you might see any potential support dwindle. We don’t much trust the parties we’ve got.

That 70% had been reached before the Minister made his decision in May 2005, by the existing group, but it didn't make a difference.

We considered that it might be necessay because there had been so little said by them of late. But again, I think that is as much the fault of the campaigners as it is the politicians. They must be given opportunities to speak and act. Nobody has been doing that for over a year.

>Can I ask how many active members you have in your group?( i.e. people who actually show up at organisational meetings)

We have 15 active members.

>And I gather that the mailing list/ discussion list is somewhat censored to weed out what might be considered critical of Vincent? This doesn’t sound like it would appeal to everyone who agrees with the group aims...

>The public list is moderated to guard against spam, accidental posts, libelous posts, even death threats which have been received. This is normal and prudent security practice. Occasionally people are asked to identify themselves for purposes of security. When they have done so, they are able to speak freely.

>Have your efforts with gigs, events, the support of musicians brought additional support to the campaign as well as the added tab?

Yes. But is has not added to teh tab, it has presented an opportunity to fundraise.

>It sounds to me like you have taken on a lot of infrastructure. How are these activities intended to mobilise the public that is already on your side? Is childcare provided for parents, by chance?

We have a lot of hard work to do, but are relieved that we are actually able to do something positive, finally, after seeing the campaign die over the last year. We accomdate everybody as best we can, and it has worked so far.

>I’m grateful for your considered response Siobhan, and here’s my advice for what it’s worth: remove Salafia from a leadership position, make solid connections with sister groups and focus your public image on persuasive facts, not conspiracy theories (the druids did it) and vague threats (protest party).

So, it appears you made your conclusion before you even waited for my detailed answers to your questions.

There is only one other 'sister group' that is active in any real way : savetaravalley.com which is on the round locally. We are in contact with them and get along great.

>Try to remain above the fray, as Muireann Ni Bhrolchain has here, arm with facts not accusations. (I read what you wrote to/about others, too.)

Thanks for the advice, maybe others should heed it aswell.

by Andy Mon Jul 10, 2006 00:21

Thanks, Siobhan for your thoughtful, detailed response.

Yes, I’m well aware of the court case brought by Mr. Salafia. Agreed that that effort is critical, not to dismiss it. My question is more to the obvious disdain with which he is viewed by the media. The feeling I get is “look what this idiot is doing/saying now”, which would seem to cast aspersions on any group he’s affiliated with, especially in such a prominent role. Based on his contributions here, I’d say he’s a loose cannon, largely concerned with his own self-image, which, lawsuit aside, has obviously become a distraction to the aims of your group. I’d consider that a huge liability.

I’m glad to hear that a few politicians have stepped up, but seriously, I doubt it was due to the protest. Not to bash, glad some made the effort. Hope you ask yourselves “why” without finger-pointing. Clearly, though, you have not yet been able to reach that 75% who support a different route. I’d say with your “leader” going off about a “protest party”, you might see any potential support dwindle. We don’t much trust the parties we’ve got.

Can I ask how many active members you have in your group?( i.e. people who actually show up at organisational meetings) And I gather that the mailing list/ discussion list is somewhat censored to weed out what might be considered critical of Vincent? This doesn’t sound like it would appeal to everyone who agrees with the group aims...

Have your efforts with gigs, events, the support of musicians brought additional support to the campaign as well as the added tab? It sounds to me like you have taken on a lot of infrastructure. How are these activities intended to mobilise the public that is already on your side? Is childcare provided for parents, by chance?

I’m grateful for your considered response Siobhan, and here’s my advice for what it’s worth: remove Salafia from a leadership position, make solid connections with sister groups and focus your public image on persuasive facts, not conspiracy theories (the druids did it) and vague threats (protest party). Try to remain above the fray, as Muireann Ni Bhrolchain has here, arm with facts not accusations. (I read what you wrote to/about others, too.)

by Vincent - TaraWatch Sun Jul 09, 2006 23:49 legal at tarawatch dot org

For all the genuine druids reading this, here's a mail I just received about Adge> It contains an audio file of a radio show Adge helped produce on the Tara issue> If anyone has news of him, please let us know.

Hello Vincent!

I just wanted to let you know that I have uploaded the show with Adge about Tara Hill into my line-up of shows in theshamansbrew profile here.

Just click here:
http://www.myspace.com/theshamansbrew

or go to my home page then it will start playing. I am trying to get as many people as possible to hear it so please help pass the word and maybe with people hearing adge speak it will help in this battle. Please feel free to repost this bulletin so that more people will become aware of this serious problem.

No word from my end on Adge yet but a couple psychic friends of mine seem to think he is ok just recharging and getting ready for the next stage of the fight.

Take care my friend,
Marc Leader

by Equally frustrated Sun Jul 09, 2006 22:09

For once I agree with McGrath. Even Fianna Fail back benchers are against this road and their membership definitely are.
Meath is the key.

by Michael McGrath - Tarawatch Sun Jul 09, 2006 22:02 Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland. 086-3247628

Oh and by the way, Vincent and Siobhain, are supporters of Fianna Fail opposed to the M3 barred from membership of Tarawatch.

If so, you have half the pople of Ireland barred!

Because the M3 Tara Issue is one issue where a lot of FF party members/supporters and especially Fianna Fail voters do not see eye to eye with the Government.

Nowhere do I see such a provision in our Tarawatch prospectus/constitution.

And are all Fine Gael members/supporters/voters equally barred just because the Fine Gael Parliamentary Party supports the M3?

And are Fine gael members buying up huge tracts of land to profit by around Tara.

Is that why Enda Kenny supports the M3?

Ludicrous.

The biggest reason that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael support the M3 is that they will both be jostling for the third seat out of five in Meath in the next general election.

And the People of Meath are holding the two major parties to ransom, as well as the majority of Irish People, 70% as you say, who are opposed to the M3 at Tara.

Shouldn't we be trying to change the minds of the people of Meath?

by Equally frustrated Sun Jul 09, 2006 21:43

Siobhan, it would help if you read the posts before replying.
It is absolutely a lie to say that the press have not spoken to anyone else except Salafia - see your own posts on your own site of that Guardian article and indeed one that appeared in the Japanese Times.
If you are to speak for Tarawatch at least get your facts right.
I repeat it is lie to say that the press only talk to Salafia.
No wonder I'm frustrated, you could not see truth if it jumped up and bit you on the nose!
But you will, and you will sit back one day and wonder ... how could I defend him and call him an asset ... well ass it maybe ...

by Michael McGrath - Tarawatch Sun Jul 09, 2006 21:39 DruidEire at casblenet dot ie Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland. 086-3247628

So I am expelled already, Siobhain, behind my back by Diktat of Jackboot Salafia.

I would have thought you would have been democratic enough to at least call a Kangaroo Court of your 3 or 4 members in Ireland to expel me.

Until you do that, at least, and inform me by registered post of my expulsion, I continue by law to be a member.

And I now notify Tarawatch that I may indeed ask my solicitor to challenge Tarawatch about the validity of my membership in court, and also while he is at it, to sue you for ongoing and continuous defamation.

The Gardai, like your horse, are splitting their sides laughing at your antics.

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Sun Jul 09, 2006 21:36

Its nice to communicate to someone with constructive questions and real concerns, finally. I will answer your questions to the best of my ability, in consequtive order.

1. It is widely believed that the government is refusing to concede to the wishes of the people because FF associates have been buying land up in the know that they could sell it for huge profits. http://tarawatch.org/?cat=10
-It is also widely believed that the Government wanted to sacrifice Tara, which they knew would raise objections, so they could grease the passage the Strategic Infrastructure Bill, which takes away our rights to object

2. It has been true that the press have not been talking to anyone else, because nobody else has been doing anything much publicly for the last year and a half. Nobody has been organising protest, gigs, albums, or anything else. There have been inwardly focused committees that meet, but don't act. Nobody else has taken a case against the Government. However, at least three or four of these groups have been constsntly sending out press releases and the media honestly don't believe anyone has any credibility any more.

The purpose of the protest was not to get thousands of people to storm the Dail. It was organised in less than a week, on a weekday, during work hours, so as to provide an opportunity for politicians to speak out. And they did, which is what made it a success. The Green Party and Sinn Fein, in particular, made a very strong pledge of support, which othwise would not have been voiced. It is interesting that the Northern papers were happy to print them, while the southern ones stayed silent.

I have taken the role of Political Affairs Officer so I can also lobby and speak on these matters, on behalf of the group, which I have done in releases.

3. The people of Ireland have made their opinion clear. In 2005 there was a survey done by Red C Research whicvh showed 70% of Irish people want the M3 moved. http://www.hilloftara.info/downloads.html and this was advertised in conjunction with the court case. And that is what the Government wanted too. TaraWatch was specifally created three months ago so that somebody other than Vincent could speak and act for the people of Ireland, since the other main campaign group folded. We have also managed to get a large number of musicians like Paddy Casey, Kila, Camille O'Sullivan and so on to speak, through their music.

No Vincent, is an asset not a liability, as if were for his legal action the M3 would be under construction along side the excavations, which incedentally are being carried out by archeoglists who are on the NRA payroll.

by Muireann Ni Bhrolchain - Save Tara Sun Jul 09, 2006 21:30 muireann at savetara dot com

Not sure how interested people are in the reality of the situation. This is a section from the book I'm writing. If there is any interest, I'll post another section. I'd rather people didn't use this on their sites without crediting me, especially as this has happened to me a number of times before. Muireann

The Druids in Irish literature
By the time the Irish are writing about themselves the power of the druid appears to have waned but we only have access to the written sources and the actual historical events of the period are lost forever. The Christian monks, charged with writing down the literature, would have found the druid’s relationship with the pre-Christian religion abhorrent and they may have deliberately diminished their status. The hagiographical material, lives of the saints, shows that druids are the opponents of saints and by extension the new religion. They were probably the guardians of the old religion and therefore to be vilified by the Christian scribes but they also call Christ 'my druid' which says something of the way in which they were held in respect. Indeed, the saints do not always win against the druids. The earliest Irish texts on sin and penance warn against them and against pagans but not very often. One of them says:

If a cleric has given surety for a pagan in whatsoever amount, and it so happens - as well it might - that the pagan by some ruse defaults upon the cleric ...
A Christian who has committed murder, or committed adultery, or sworn before a druid as pagans do, shall do a year's penance for each of these crimes ...

The most famous druid in the Ulster Cycle and in early Irish literature in general is Cathbad and he appears in many of the stories in that cycle. As will be seen below he is the father of the king of Ulster, Conchobar, and he trains and fosters Cú Chulainn, the most famous martial hero of early Irish literature. He also advises him on taking arms and names him on the day that Cú Chulainn, as Setanta, killed the hound and is renamed as the hound of Cualu. Cathbad also appears in the saga Loinges mac nUislenn (The exile of the sons of Uisliu) and prophecies the fate of Deirdre, the girl whom Conchobar wants to marry but who elopes with the young warrior Naise. Cathbad says:

… a woman, fair, tall, long-haired,
concerning whom champions will contend,
concerning whom high kings will ask,
…
Her scarlet-red lips will be
About her pearly teeth –
Against whom high queens will be jealous,
Against her matchless, faultless form.

Mac Cana has published many works on the file and the enduring tradition and this will be referred to again when discussing the heated question of the pagan versus Christian elements of the literature.
A sixth century text, the First Synod of Saint Patrick, says that oaths were sworn in the druid’s presence. The Irish clergy condemn the druids and the law-texts equate them with the satirist and the brigand. One legal text describes three different types of feasts, a godly one, a human one and finally a fled demundae (feast of devils). Some of the people who might attend such a feast include sons of death (do macaib báis), the fool (drúth), satirists and poets who beg. Although little is known of their position, there are some indications that they were considered dangerous: an eighth century hymn asks God to protect the reciter from druids, blacksmiths and the spells of women. They are mentioned in connection with love potions, and described as reciting spells and satires while standing on one leg with one arm lifted up and with one eye closed. This is called corrguinecht (heron or crane killing). Incidentally, the god Lug and his Fomorian ancestors notably use the exact same stance. The Fomorians were reputedly one-eyed, one-legged and one-armed. One of their leaders, Balor, was killed by Lug with a shot from his catapult as he put out his one eye. Another law text, Bretha Nemed (The Judgements of Nemed), states that a druid can ensure victory for the weaker side in battle. The word corr also appears in the compound corrguine ‘sorcerer, magician’. The words sedguine and bóguine mean ‘deer-killer/hunter’ and ‘cow-killer’ respectively and corrguine would be expected to mean ‘crane-killer, heron-killer’. The killing of the bird could have been part of some ritual as happens when a cock is killed in voodoo cults elsewhere in the world. The Gaulish god Esus is sometimes depicted with crane-like birds.
The most sinister of their rituals was the glám dícenn (a type of extempore satire, black magic) and the texts describe the ability of the poet to bring about the death of a king who has offended him by sticking thorned sticks in a clay effigy while chanting satirical verse. It is said that the seven grades of poet should go to the top of a hill before sunrise with their backs to a whitethorn, the wind from the North, and a thorn from the whitethorn in each one’s hand and that they should chant the satire. They may also pierce a clay image of the person they wish to satirise with their whitethorn thorns.
The file survives the arrival of Chrisianity when the druid does not. Fili originally meant ‘seer’ and his area of responsibility was far-ranging in comparison with the modern day poet; he was capable of prophecy as well as acting as a chronicler, eulogist and satirist. The word survives as the Modern Irish word file and translated, for want of a better word, as poet. He was the early Irish equivalent of the Public Records Office, recording genealogy, history and saga as well as eulogy and story telling. He is the repository of senchas (traditional lore) including history, genealogy, place names etc. The poet had gained an extraordinary status in this society, the highest grade is that of ollam and he has the same status and honour price as the king and the bishop.

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Sun Jul 09, 2006 20:50

As you know you are not and never have been a member of TaraWatch. You are a self confessed Fianna
Fail supporter, and a personal friend of Berties.

That in itself shows your true intentions.

We have kept a record of your hate- filled, threatening Emails.

I believe that An Garda Siochana will be interested in seeing them, as would your FF friends as this puts them in an even worse light.

Thanks for exposing your true colours and the source of this failed effort to discredit Vincent and TaraWatch.

I dont think Bertie will be having that drink with you, afterall, as the old adage goes, WITH FRIENDS LIKE
YOU....

by andy Sun Jul 09, 2006 20:43

From what I've read, venom, and not accuarate information, is being furiously exchanged.

How can a demonstration, in Dublin, that draws only 15 people be considered, by any measure, a success? This seems to be either serious spin or serious delusion. Neither reflects well on Mr. Salafia or his group Tarawatch.

I have to wonder: does Tara really matter that little to the people of Ireland, or is there something more going on?

If someone can factually and straightforwardly explain:
1. Why the government is so bulldoggedly refusing to compromise the route of the M3? To me, the route seems an unnecessary and wholly ignorant option, and, as I understand it, there are others.

2. Is it really true that the media prefer to speak only to Mr. Salafia as he claims? Surely, if the issues mattered, they would speak to anyone with relevant information?

3. Do the people of Ireland genuinely understand what's at stake, or has the whole Tarawatch campaign consisted of this kind of defense of Salafia's personal efforts? If so, he seems a liability more than an asset.

by Michael McGrath - Tarawatch Sun Jul 09, 2006 20:03 DruidEire at cablenet dot ie Kennyswell, Kilkenny City, Ireland 086-3247628

I am a member of Tarawatch (but not for long, I suspect, as I expect Salafia to expel me out of spite) as Vincent continues to spread M3 supporter Liam Fay's concocted drivel about me, and about some mythical INSP that was supposed to have existed all of 36 years ago! (I was working in England at the time, from 1966 to 1975).

It is true that I am a lifelong supporter of Fianna Fail, that is my own choice. It is true that I happily met Bertie Ahern and had a drink with him. And, hopefully, I shall have the opportunity to have a drink with An Taoiseach again. What's wrong with that?

No, I am not an NRA Mole - that is an allegation from Vincent that I take very seriously indeed, and the rest of his allegations which insinuate that I am part of an "anonymous lynch mob" out to get him - talk about paranoia!

I was a great close personal friend of Michael Slavin, esteemed author of The Book of Tara, but I haven't met Michael Slavin in six years. To me Michael Slavin, Honorary Secretary of the Friends of Tara, is a gentleman and a scholar, and I admire him as such. The fact that he is an avid supporter of the M3 will not split me from my friend Michael Slavin. This is a democracy and we are all entitled to take our various stands - but I do regret that Michae Slavin is on the opposite side. Yet I will defend his right to his own opinion and his right to state that opinion. And it will not affect our friendship.

As regards the Druids, I resigned as (elected) Archdruid of Tara and Ireland last month, so as to make room for a Druidic Unity project dear to my heart. I am Caretaker until my successor is elected and takes the Chair of Tara on the Hill at Samhain, now less than four months away.

As a result of this the Chiefs of three Druid Orders are coming to a meeting in Unity and Peace to Kilkenny City here tomorrow. I do not accept Salafia's allegation that I am a liability to the Save Tara camapaign on foot of some ravings in his column by M3 leading supporter Liam Fay, bordering on the voyeuristic. I shall never allow the likes of Fay to force me out, nor Salafia either, though I expect him to expel me from Tarawatch as soon as he calls a meeting of the 3 or 4 members he has left. I shall not resign from Tarawatch as I feel I have as much right than Salafia to be there. Already I am blocked by Vincent from posting on hilloftara forum simpy because I criticised him there.

He is over here on indymedia now begging for support on his knees - that's the place to have Salafia who disgraced all Save Tara campaigners last Thursday with 15 people, including several of his own family and children, and a horse, It will take us a long time to recover from that P.R, catastrophe.

I regret the remarks that Vincent Salafia is making about me and the Druids.

And by the way, Vincent, the Brehon Laws are not Druidic, not the work of the Druids.

Now bite on that, Legal Eagle!

by Vincent Salafia - TaraWatch Sun Jul 09, 2006 18:54

I'd like to clarify the remarks I made above about druids, which were made after realising that many of the remarks were made by certain druids, who have been already associated with this campaign. They were made in reference to the Liam Fay article, not a as general condemnation. But as you must know, that article did great damage to the campaign, internally and externally. It cannot happen again. And that adjectives used are now used to describe anyone who wants to save Tara, thanks to Mr Fay.

I have nothing against Druids, in general. In fact, I have spent a good deal of time promoting the study of brehon law, with the Brehon Law Project, and interacting with druids in a respectful way, from time to time, in academic discussion. http://ua_tuathal.tripod.com/lawpref.htm My work is quoted in some druid resources. http://www.druidnetwork.org/ethical/articles/athelia_br....html

However, I personally do not practice the druid religion, and believe that religion is a personal matter, not to be imposed on others, and not to be used to denegrate others.

One druid in particular, Adge, was a great asset to the Save Tara Skryne Valley group. His name is Stephen Hobbs, and he wrote many letters to paper in his ordinary name (which he knew was more effective than Adge the druid) and sat in the shopping center in Navan many weekends and collected a lot of signatures. He is now missing for a number of months, and I genuinely fear for his safety.

My problem with certain druids at Tara is very particular. Firstly, Michael Mcgrath has been a huge liability, as nobody in the campaign ever even met him. He has recently been sending me strange mails and issuing false and libelous statements about my role in the campaign. Heis a Fianna Fail sympathiser and involved with the Friends of Tara. The leader of that group, Michael Slavin, gave an affidavit against me in the High Court, and he is focused on the commercial development of Tara, where he has an increasingly profitable bookshop as a result of our campaign.

An even more damaging character has been Con Connor, who was in my opinion the character that caused the implosion of the Save Tara Skryne Valley group. He formed http://www.druidschool.com - a web site largely off the back of the Tara mailing list, and advertised his classes on the list, for upwards of 1,000 to 2,000 euros. He never actually did one piece of real work, but performed his ceremonies, spat on Saint Patrick's statutue and berated the 'fluffy' druids who gathered for Midsummers, which used to be a bright, happy, family event. This year, it was dark, ominous and sinister. He has argued and split with everyone he meets, and continues to this day to attack the people doing the real campaign work. The post above concerning eduction is clearly his work, but he is has refrained from putting his name to it. Am I wrong Con?

For all those who wish to know the story of the campaign the best person to ask is Percy Jordan, former Chairman of the Save Tara Skryne Valley group. He is a local farmer and honourable man. He does not use the internet, but if you want to talk to him, I will give you his number offlist, with his permission.

This whole debate is exactly what is not needed, since there is not one bit of constructive debate taking place. It is more like an orchestrated lynchmob.

The reality is that TaraWatch is running a strong campaign, and will continue to do so, regardless of what garbage is posted here. Good people will meet every week and do hard work. Mostly it will be invisible and thankless. We are a team and will not be swayed by anonymous rants.

We are not stopping anyone else doing anything else. We are not attacking others as part of our campaign, except those who should be attacked, ie The NRA, Meath County Council, Dick Roche, and the Government parties. Why is nobody else doing that, aside from the occasional well-placed letter to the papers? It will take a lot more than that.

Druids, are a tiny minority of the Irish population. I acknowledge their special relationship to Tara, but they will never gain mass popular support, because the majority of Irish peole today do not understand them. Having a campaign led by druids is exactly what the Government would love to see.

I repeat, I left the campaign and the talking to others a long time ago, to undertake the lawsuit. Occasionally I have made public statements, but have to be careful. So I do not want to be chairman, primary spokesperson, run for office, or rule the campaign. The reason a group has formed is primarily to give the legal case support. It never had that in STSV. But with the vacum created by others, we have expanded to bring in broader political, artistic and academic support. When I speak I speak primarily about the legal issues involved, because I am trained to do that, with a Juris Doctor degree. I am also a political scientist, with a BA in that area, and have some input in that department, as do others.

The reality is that while the media attention has waned somewhat, I am still the only person they will talk to, because I am basically the only person doing anything publicly, other than sending letters to papers. Thankfully that is beginning to change, with groups like ours and savetaravalley.com, led by Heather, springing up now.

We are not here to fight with people, particularly those who say they want to save Tara. But I still have yet to see one positive suggestion coming from anyone on how to save Tara. The whole idea seems to be 'get Vincent'. It is pathetic, and typical of this country, which still often appears to contain a truly conquered people.

I don't want to spend any more time on this. I want to save my energy for actually trying to work with our group to save Tara. So, I consider this matter closed. See you at the meeting or at the next event.

by Equally frustrated Sun Jul 09, 2006 18:49

Interesting that other members are not answering. You are the only organisation here and as such have put yourselves in the firing line, first by giving a false impression of the numbers outside the Dail on Thursday and secondly by having a go at people like me who dare to criticise.
It is not my impression that there is noone else working for Tara, that is typical Salafia spin.
As for getting publicly involved or giving my name, not all of us have that luxury in that some jobs do not allow such activity and mine does not, so, no, I'll not be attending any meetings or identifying myself.
I will indeed contact all parties and see what they say on the issue.
It is not the impression that friends of mine got - that the door is open to anyone who is interested in Tara. Indeed, some have been attacked. Therefore, the accusations that are flying around about Salafia are far from ungrounded, untrue or insulting. And he is not just one of your organisation, he is at the centre of it, he set it up and runs the agenda.
Why has he got someone else answering for him anyway? What is he afraid of?
I've got friends who were involved in the Carrickmines disaster, what is the common denominator? There was mayhem there as well.
As I have said before, this campaign is dead, the road will go ahead and fingers will be pointed at a few

by Frustrated too, however... Sun Jul 09, 2006 03:56

I agree with comrades here that Salafia is a Political Jonah.

However, there may be a few worthwhile people in his campaign.

And sooner or later comrades here are going to have to face the bulldozers to halt profiteering from destructive development by corrupt Fianna Fail scumbags who stand to make millions in all the undesirable development that will inevitably follow upon the M3 at Tara.

Therefore I propose that any comrades here who are interested, and let's face it we are, offer political education and training to Vincent Salafia and his group in the hope of transforming them into real activists, I know, some hope, but isn't that what we are here for.

For the coming Battle of Tara is going to be a landmark battle against undesirable development profiteering in Ireland.

And as I hear that Kellogg Brown Inc, subsidiary of Haliburton ( U.S. Vice-President Dick Cheney), are in for the M3 contract to Iraqise Ireland, and to get the toll billions in perpetuity, I believe that we must intervene if this is the case.

Therefore I propose we go along to this Salafia meeting in Capel Street and put our terms to this 'great man', which would consist of an offer of practical political education and training etc, such as how to command the streets - these middle-class dears haven't an idea.

But don't get drawn in by Salafia and don't get tainted by his Jonah Touch.

And he must be made to understand that we lead the campaign and when the action comes he shall be a figurehead, no more than that.

Agreed?

by Siobhan Rice - TaraWatch Sun Jul 09, 2006 00:32

> Equally Frustrated wrote: "The politicans dont want to deal with TaraWatch".

If that is true why have The Greens, Sinn Fein, and the Labour Party all issued press releases supporting our cause? Why did the GP,SF, Tony Gregory and David Norris all show up at our recent protest to show their support?

He/She also wrote "No court case will stop it".

The only reason why the construction of the road has not gone ahead already is because the NRA are unable to sign a contract with their constructers because the issue is currantly before the courts. This is thanks to Vincent Salafia who has valiantly risked everything to fight the NRA and various government bodies on this issue.

He/She also asked "Why is there so much dissention?"

Ans: It is in my view, because venomous self serving people like yourself have spread poisonous lies throughout the whole campaign, in an effort to undermine us and fulfill their own agenda.

If you really cared about Tara, you would be slinging criticism at those who are trying to destroy it, not those who are actually protecting it.

I suggest that you are a coward and a self-serving liar, who is busily endevouring to thwart this campaign, from behind a wall of anonminity. Im even beginning to think that perhaps you are on the NRA's payroll. My name is Siobhan Rice and I am the Political Affairs officer of TaraWatch, and
proud to be so. May I be so bold as to ask your name?

by Equally frustrated Sat Jul 08, 2006 23:04

That was a quick turnabout. - so its back to dealing with the political parties is it? Tarawatch will never be a unifying force, the past of this campaign will always plague the present and the future. The politicians dont want to deal with Tarawatch.
The message is clear and simple - Carrickmines is forever tied to Tara because the same name is attached to the two campaigns.
It has served Tara very badly and has alienated a huge number of people.
I ask again - where did those people go? Why did they leave? Why is there so much dissention?
I think the answer is quite simple as well - and anyone here who has been watching will see why.
Interesting that Vincent left Taraskryne by his own words to separate the case from the group, but now he has another group, a completely new set of faces and names and off he goes re-inventing the wheel that was Taraskryne, collecting names, lobbying, protesting ... that all happened before ...
More of the same over and over.
Tarawatch as long as its Vincent will not be taken seriously.
This campaign is over. The public deems it over, many of those involved in the past deem it over, the government deems it over.
That road will go ahead and those involved will live to regret that they did not take certain actions that should have been taken.
Its too late now and no court case will stop it.
And where will Vincent turn his attention next?
Watch out campaigners and don't let him near your issue. Not if you want to succeed.

by Vincent - TaraWatch Sat Jul 08, 2006 15:59 legal at tarawatch dot org

It is indeed good to see debate here. I have actually been out of this campaign since early 2005, when I left Save Tara Skryne Valley group to go to court. That group ended up slplitting a year and a half later, over the contentious issue of whether to ask for a reroute or not. Since early 2005 there has been no group holding open meetings, planning protests, fundraising, lobbying, and engaging the public. Neither has there been one penny donated to legal costs which have run into the tens of thousands, in outlays alone. If it wasn't for the case, the road would be under construction, as we speak, according to the NRA. They say they cannot sign their PPP contract until it is through the courts.

TaraWatch was formed about 3 months ago to change that. We now have a committee, and meet regularly. We are planning gigs, protests, a lecture series ar the Royal Society of Antiquaries, an album, and so on. e are also active on the Net. Meaningful negotiations can now take place between the campaign group and the various parties because there is a direct connection between litigation and what is happening on the groud and in the Dail. It is called cohesion.

I do not run TaraWatch. We are a democratic group, and hopefully new members will come aboard. It is amazing how fights with me get publicised and fights between all the other people who have been campaigning have never been exposed. This campaign is not about me, but I was pushed to the fore because I was nominated and elected to the position of PRO in 2003 at a large public meeting in Meath.

You say Carrickmines has tainted Tara. Glen of the Downs could equally be said to have tainted Carrickmines. That's they way the Government spin works. But anyone who knows the real issues knows that Tara IS a continuation of Carrickmines, in legal terms, because the legislation being used to destroy Tara was invented to sort out Carrickmines, after the Government lost two Supreme Court cases. It is the same people doing the same things to the same stuff; our heritage. Yes, Tara is much more significant than Carrickines in terms of the site itself. But it's all about the same thing in the end. Our heriatage versus their bulldozers.

Whatever happened in the the past doesn't really matter. We still have a winnable campaign now. If you want to help you are truly welcome. If you want to sit back and complain, or try and re-open old wounds, go ahead, see what good it does. Please don't let this thread turn into the same thing that has plagued the campaign all along; the tendency for talk-shops to develop that attack the first person who actually stands up and proposes doing something.

Everybody, I repeat everybody, is welcome to join TaraWatch. They are also free to go elsewhere and work in their own way. But please try and do so constructively, because there is a lot of hard work to be done.

by Vincent - TaraWatch Sat Jul 08, 2006 13:44 pro at tarawatch dot org

PRESS RELEASE

TaraWatch

Saturday, 8 July 2006

‘TaraWatch Shelves Forming a Protest Party and Will Continue Talks With Mainstream Parties’

TaraWatch, the group campaigning to save the Tara archaeological complex, has made a decision shelve pland to join other protesting groups in setting up a political to run in the 2007 general election.

The idea of forming a new party was mooted at a TaraWatch protest outside Leinster House on Thursday by Vincent Salafia, who stated that TaraWatch was considering doing so, if the mainstream parties did not make Tara an election issue. However, he also stated that it was still preferable that the mainstream parties would take this issue clearly on board from the upcoming election.

The strong showing of support from the Green Party, Sinn Féin and the Labour Party, as well as Independent Oireachtas members, partly as a result of the protest, has negated the need for such a move.

Ciarán Cuffe TD of the Green Party said at the protest:

"Carving a motorway through the Tara landscape would be an act of sacrilege. The Green Party believes that safety improvements on the existing road would be a better option".

Shortly after the protest, Sinn Féin TD Seán Crowe issued a strongly word press release in which he stated:

"The Tara/Skryne valley is part of our heritage, part of our history and part of what we are and plans for its destruction are nothing less than Government sponsored vandalism.

"Sinn Féin will continue to oppose the routing of the M3 through the Tara/Skryne valley and will take that opposition down every avenue remaining open to us."

Yesterday evening TaraWatch received news the Labour Party MEP Proinsias de Rossa will meet the EU Petitions Committee on Monday 10th of July, and that Tara and the M3 motorway is on the agenda.

Also present at the protest were Tony Gregory TD and Senator David Norris, who have offered their full support.

TaraWatch Political Affairs Officer, Siobhan Rice said:

“We are delighted to see this clear showing of support and look forward to engaging the in meaningful, constructive discussions Opposition parties, including Fine Gael, over the summer. We hope to find a solution that can best to protect our heritage and deliver badly needed relief for the commuters of Meath.”

“Mr Salafia has indicated that he may be willing to withdraw his Supreme Court Appeal if the matter is handed over to consultants for an independent third party assessment, which could be performed in a few short months.

“While the option still remains open to form a party, we are optimistic that we can work with existing parties to find a solution.

ENDS

Contact:

Siobhan Rice – Political Affairs Officer 086-319-9833

Vincent Salafia – Legal Affairs Officer 087-132-3365

by Equally frustrated Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:36

This is the point, everyone is not welcome, there are not at least three if not four different organisations and no central point at all. There seems to be a lot of flapping around by no real action/campaign.
Ordinary people are put off by the connection with Carrickmines and rightly or wrongly, Tara is now seen as 'just another Carrickmines' and this is not the case.
People have been put off by the strong druid presence in the campaign as well, it has not caught the public imagination except for that march whenever that was.
The only useful way to mount a reasonable campaign now is to hit the politicians before the Election and a new political party with Vincent probably running somewhere is not the way to do this. It will deflect all attention from Tara as the press interest in the Dail protest showed. It concentrated on the possibility of a new party not on Tara.
Where are all the names and faces that were connected with this campaign in the past? None of the names used now have any history with this issue. Very strange ... why do people fall away from this group in particular? It does not happen in the same way with other groups/issues.
It is depressing and if this road goes ahead, fingers will be pointed and most of them in one direction ...

by Vincent - TaraWatch Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:04 legal at tarawatch dot org

Hi everyone,

Again, I'd like to thank all those who participated in last Thursday's protest at the Dail, and who are continuing to work very hard to rebuild the Tara campaign with TaraWatch. Over the last three years there have indeed been many ups and downs in the campaign, and it is good to see it coming back into the public domain, where it belongs.

There are a number of events planned, and ways of getting involved, that people should know about.

We hold weekly gigs at Dice Bar on Tuesdays, which are organised by Christine, our Public Relations Officer (events@tarawatch.org). Last week we had 'House of Cosy Cushions' who wer brilliant, and are playing tonight in Sugar Club. Well worth seeing. Every week these free gigs offer two bands and a good atmosphere for people to come together and have fun as well as get involved.

TaraWatch is meeting this Monday in the Capel Building, and is open to anyone who wants to join, in order to plan for our next big events. The first is a heavy metal gig in Voodoo on 29th July and then a celbration of Lughnasadh at Tara, by holding a walk from Skryne to Tara. It will actually begin at Rath Lugh, on the northern slope of Skryne. This is a big defensive fort to Tara, that is being cut off from Tara by the motorway. Lugh was the god of Tara, and so it is fitting to recognise the importance of the place at this time. The Sunday wlk will involve candles, arriving at Tara at sunset. it is not a druid ceremony. In fact, we hope to have representatives of the various ancient Irish familes, such as the O'Briens, and O'Neills, who will form a procession, perhaps themed 'The Return of the Earls'. Anyway, we'll finalise details of that on Monday, and then begin promoting it.

Here is the lineup of the gig on the 29th. The exciting part of the gig is that many archaeologists are members of these bands. More on that soon.

==

Craobh Crua & TaraWatch proudly present:

'A night of Metal and Mayhem to divert the M3 going through the Tara Valley'

Voodoo Lounge - Dublin Saturday 29th of July

featuring:

ABBADON INCARNATE
OLD SEXSON
WAYLANDER
SLAVE ZERO
WARPATH
ERA VULGARIS
NEMISIS

Doors open at 5. Gig ends at 12. Over 18s only. 7 euros

Slave Zero and Era Vulgaris are both promoing their new albums.

We're considering running a coach from the north if the numbers pick up.

POSTER AND FLYER DOWNLOAD:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hilloftara/files/Abbadon%...nate/

http://www.craobhcrua.org

==

As for the off-topic discussion taking place, there is indeed a need, as always, for constructive criticism. But there is also a need to just get on with it. If you want to come on board and do some real work there is a working committee and lots to be done. If you want to sit on the fence and sling mud anonymously, I don't think you really have a right to judge anyone who sticks up their head and goes to war.

We have a discussion list at

Fuull size poster available for printing from events@tarawatch.org

Flyer can be distributed

by Equally frustrated Fri Jul 07, 2006 19:06

I agree with most of the sentiments of the last commentator. As someone else who tried to get involved in this issue I found that anyone who was serious about it was sidelined and downright discouraged.
Tara is not well served by some of those at the helm of this supposed campaign. Eventually one gives up and goes away, indeed most of the best people have disappeared and have been very disillusioned.
As a political campaigner I've never seen anything like it.
If I were a conspiracy theorist (and I'm not either) I'd say there was an unwritten, understood agenda to scupper this campaign.
Its very disheartening.

by Frustrated Fri Jul 07, 2006 13:56

I have been involved at different stages in this campaign for over three years and I can honestly say it has been the most frustrating experience of my political life. Every effert to outline a programme of work, to bring on board experienced activists, devolop a coherant and workable platform, even establish a democratic and representative steering group has been undermined. If you were a conspiracy theorist (which I'm not) you would almost say that someone couldn't have planned this fiasco better.
I am very happy to see a debate emerging in Indymedia and I would ask those of you who would ordinarily have been active and supportive why you have stayed away. We need to be honest about this because stopping this road and the ancillary devolopment that will follow in its wake is an all or nothing game. It is an important campaign in and of itself but it is also a campaign that can capture the public imagination and put down a marker for the future in terms of heritage, enviroment and planning.
This should and can be an issue in the upcoming general election. Labour, the Greens and Sinn Fein are all on-board to varying degrees. What we need to do is make a review and re-route a deal-breaker in the horse-trading after the election.
If this is not to be we need to ensure that we do everything within our power to mobilise for direct action if and when the bulldozers go in.
I do not want to go into the various problems within the camapign(s) in detail but one of the main problems has been a lack of political experience, in my opinion the other has been a complete lack of accoubtability to a democratic group by the principal involved.
We can thank one man for bringing an important legal challange at no small expence to himself personally and financially. I deeply hope that the failure of a winnable campaign does not end up being being laid at the same door.
Please, lets get some debate going on this before it is too late.

by Tarawatch Member - Tarawatch Fri Jul 07, 2006 04:38

I am a woman who has served Vincent and Tarawatch from the start. Please see latest comments on our official website www.hilloftara-Tarawatch.

The true attendance this morning was 15 people, including kids - and a horse. And I had assurances from hunddreds of people that you would come and support us. Where were you all, where was the much-caunted Left?

Vincent admits it on our official website and is all cheery about it. He is always cheery about everything. If he was on the Titanic going down he would be cheery.

I felt so ashamed imagining Ahern and Roche and that corrupt little man Cullen looking out the windows of Leinster House and sneering at us and our pathetic show. Where were all the Warriors of the left?

I felt so empty so frustrated and so tired. I had hardly been to bed for a week.

The brutal fact is that the Irish people do not put Tara anywhere on their agenda.

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Thu Jul 06, 2006 19:26 events at tarawatch dot org

There are no definite plans for the party, and we are surpried it was presented as a 'vow'. It has been talked about, and was mentioned as a vague possibility, but we would rather see the parties stand up and take a position. That seems to be happening now, and so it probably won't come to that. We honestly don't want to have to go to all the time and expense that it would take either.

Quite confused about the Revolt Video comments. Were you there or not?

We do take on board the comments about self-publishing on Indy, and am sorry we didn't have a camera with us. A couple of toher people did though, so maybe we can get them sent to us.

by Siobhan - TaraWatch Thu Jul 06, 2006 19:18 events at tarawatch dot org

Sorry gang. Didn't see you there. Thaks for coming down. Look forward to the video.

Here's a press release that just hit the wire:

SINN FÉIN: Destruction of Tara nothing less than Government sponsored vandalism - Crowe

/noticias.info/ Sinn Féin TD Seán Crowe has expressed fears that the passing of the Strategic Infrastructue Bill this week will fast-track the destruction of the Tara Archaeological Complex. Speaking after attending a demonstration against the route of the M3 through Tara at Leinster House this morning Deputy Crowe said the Tara/Skryne valley is part of our heritage, part of our history and part of what we are and plans for its destruction are nothing less than Government sponsored vandalism.

Deputy Crowe said, "The Tara/Skryne valley is part of our heritage, part of our history and part of what we are and plans for its destruction are nothing less than Government sponsored vandalism.

"The case has been made time and again by those campaigning against the proposed route of the M3 that there are viable and realistic alternatives where both infrastructure and heritage can be accommodated. Sinn Féin is calling for the M3 to be constructed on that viable, alternative route.

"We are also calling for the Tara/Skryne to be developed as a sustainable tourist site. What people don't realize is that approximately 100,000 people visit the site annually at present. The financial prospects for the County, if the site is developed as a tourist attraction, are colossal and should not be overlooked.

"However, I fear that the passing of the Strategic Infrastructure Bill this week will fast-track the destruction of the Tara Archaeological Complex. This Bill was designed to limit scrutiny during the planning process for projects like the M3 and the Rossport pipeline and to facilitate the ramming through of unwanted infrastructure against the democratic wishes of communities.

"Sinn Féin will continue to oppose the routing of the M3 through the Tara/Skryne valley and will take that opposition down every avenue remaining open to us."

ENDS

http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=198...src=0

by John Thu Jul 06, 2006 19:05

Please don't do it. it's a waste of time, energy and money that would be better spent elsewhere

by IMC Ireland Thu Jul 06, 2006 16:27

"Indymedia didnt show up" - yes they did, you wrote a report on indymedia, therefore indymedia was there. If you have photos then upload them too - then an indy photographer will have been present. Indymedia isnt just the editors or regular contributors, its anyone who contributes a news piece to the wire at all.

(how many times must this be stressed... become the media yourself)