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Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10The centre at Ballyogan is hardly " tokenistic". Neither is the doorstep green bin collection.
I've been listening for the last 6 years about how the bin collection is going to be privatised yet there are more employees directly involved in Waste Management now than there were in 2001 when the charge was introduced in the city. The rest of the article is the usual crap.
This is exactly what the Councils wanted from the start. Salami tactics. Go for non-collection on the slow. Pick one area. Defeat it. Then move to next area. The opportunity was in Autumn 2003. Fingal was attacked. Some activists were left wanting when this happened. Some wanted to limit solidarity action. Some wanted only areas affected by non-collection to oppose it. It's great to have meetings in DLR. But the ability for solidarity action was fundementally undermined after Autumn 2003.
Reply to: Recycling
The centre at Ballyogan is tokenistic because it is the only decent one in the whole Sandyford, Dundrum, Ballinteer, Churchtown, Stepaside, Ballyboden area where you can recycle a number of additional materials like plastic wrap, heavy cardboard, engine oil, plastic bottles and other stuff. None of this is taken by the Green Bin service nor at the usual bottle & can bank locations.
There must be at least 20k or more people living in that area. To get there most people would need to drive. They are hardly going to take the bus. One has to consider that not everyone has a car (especially OAPs) and many people are busy working. Are we expected to spend our free time on Saturdays driving there? A real recycling infrastucture would have all those facilties easily accessible to everyone regardless of their circumstances. Indeed that is supposed to be what the Green Bin is for, except what you can put in it is very limited.
Over 18 years ago I stayed in a relatively small town in Germany and that small town had far better recycling facilities than anywhere in Ireland today! Back then, the Germans had bottle banks and the likes everywhere, but they also had paper banks on every 3rd or 4th street. Likewise all the supermarkets were operating return-deposit systems on every glass bottle and a further deposit if you returned the empty crate (of beer). So 18 years later we are still light years behind the Germans.
BTW, the Ballyogan centre should also have recycling for light bulks and florescent tubes. The white powder in the tube contains mecury oxide as far as I know making it extremely toxic. They should also collect old electronic equipment most of which contains toxic heavy metals used in the resistors, capacitor, diodes, PCB boards and other elements. There is no facility anywhere that I am aware of that recycles used batteries. There must be billions of these around. Again these are quite toxic.
Nobody argues that the council did not use salami tactics. Regarding your point about waiting or not waiting for solidarity, much of that post bin tax campagin analysis has been discussed many times both here on Indymedia and by other activists groups and political parties. I also agree the high point of the various campaigns was a few years ago.
I don't think we should always view campaigns as won or lost. In this particular case, it is protracted and drawn out. Things can still happen. People can stop paying even if they had up to now. In the tag areas, people can try and recycle and compost as much as possible so as to reduce the market value of the waste collection service and so cause disruption and crisis for the operators. There is no reason why people in those areas can not launch campaigns to bring back the excessive packaging to the supermarkets on the very reasonable grounds that it is costing them money to dispose of it.
Ultimately what we want is a sustainable society that reduces the amount of waste as much as possible and recycles whatever remains. Doing this ourselves despite the bounds and limitations setup by the state can allow us to defeat them by that means.
What they want is to keep the volumes of waste up in the long run otherwise there really is no need for a waste service and if it is too small it will not be profitable. And this is why the incinerator issue is so important, because once it is there thats where all the recycleable paper, cardboard, plastic and wood will go and it is the means to take away our ability to shrink their profitable market.
Good on you Terence, your points make a lot of sense. "River District Basin Boards" are I am told the basis under which an EU directive will be transposed into Irish law circa 2008-2009. This, I am again told will set in place the framework for implementing domestic water charges. The "Chamber of Ireland" last week called for all households in the country to be fitted with water meters to prepare for domestic charges.
The setting up of RDBBs is meant to be in place by the end of this year and requires widespread community consultation beforehand. The Govt, surprise, surprise, are keeping all this close to their chest, Dick Roche vehemently denies that water charges will be implemented, of course after next election twill be a different story. This information, if it is accurate and I strongly suspect it is should be getting rolled up the flagpole, I am sure a lot of punters will be concerned at more gross iniquitious taxes in the pipeline. No pun intended. MB.
O.K. Terence, tell us where all these recycling facilities can be placed. The city lost the green waste centre in Raheny and has every proposed bottle bank and bring centre thwarted by NIMBY's.
There is no legal power to charge for domestic water but hey, let's not let that get in the way of the conspiracy theorists.
As for the notion that the proposed incinerator is going to receive all recycling material, God help us, I suppose council officials were on the grassy knoll in '63.
At the height of the Bin Tax campagin in 2003 the City Manager said that when this was dealth with, they would be bringing in Water Charges next. As far as I remember this was reported on RTE and also appeared in some of the local free newspapers.
Re: Recycling -where can they be placed? How about in the Green Bins and how about adding plastic bottle recycling banks beside all the glass ones. I saw plastic bottle recycling facilties at most bottle banks in France the last time I was there. And the French are supposed to be pretty low in the recycling leagues. Besides one of the biggest plastic bottle recycling plants called Wellman International actually has a factory here in Ireland up near Cavan / Meath border. They have to import their plastic from Europe, yet somehow our government, councils and Green Bin crowd never seemed to have heard of them.
And as regards they have no legal power .... and the law in general, governments and States happily and regularly disregard the law and then change it in their favour, the so called Protection of the Environment Bill, 2003, being a case in point. Another is where under law the councils had a duty to collect your domestic waste, but not any more.
Your attempt to stick the label of conspiracy theorist on this discussion is amusing. Are you denying that there are plans for an incinerator or what? Or is it that you don't believe that they will put paper, cardboard, plastic and wood in it? If they don't put that stuff in then what will they put in? Building rubble perhaps? Organic waste which would contain alot of water and would therefore mean you would have to add fuel (like oil or gas) to the incinerator to burn it. Or maybe they are going to burn electrical goods or even glass. They will have a hard time doing that.
So I think it is pretty obvious then that they are going to burn the flammable material -in other words the stuff which we can recycle.
But just in case you doubt they are even planning the incinerator, even though there have been several motions about it in the Dublin City Council where the councillors rejected it numerous times, but they were over-ruled by the unelected and undemocratic city manager and all of this was widely reported in the press, here's some links to various reports on the incinerator, despite the fact that I have already included some in the main news report above.
SF slams €10m spending on PR for Ringsend incinerator
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/06/19/story263986.html
Contractor for proposed Ringsend incinerator
http://www.dublin.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=1310
McDowell must clarify his position on Ringsend incinerator says Gormley
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/mcdowell_m...rmley
Govt will reclassify incinerators to pretend that waste doesn't exist
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/govt_will_...exist
City Council block Poolbeg Incinerator
http://www.progressivedemocrats.ie/council_news/9/
New City Manager must respect democracy - Doolan
http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/14599
Sorry, I was away being sick at the thought of Daithi Doolan from Sinn Fein asking that the new City Manager respect democracy ( or anyone from SF/PIRA for that matter).
If domestic water charges are to be introduced it can only come about by an act of the Oireachtas. That's where the debate will be. Go out and get elected Terence and you can influence the decision. Or you can huff and puff from the sidelines which probably suits you best.
I'm looking forward to the thermal treatment plant in Ringsend, should be a nice addition to our city.
Bemused, you have finally shown your true agenda. At the top you pretend to be concerned about recycling, then you seem to doubt the existence of the incinerator or at least recycleable material could be burnt it it. Your technique all along has been to belittle and sneer at the arguments, none of which you may any attempt to address directly or in any sort of coherent manner.
I have no intention of going out and getting elected, because from what I can see representative democracy doesn't work very well. The so called representatives are hamstrung at many turns, but in the case of the political parties, one of the most undemocratic instruments must be the Party Whip which is regularly used for bringing in legislation that neither the public or TDs want.
And in the alleged democratic city council, all the elected councillors were over-ruled by an unelected city manager. Additionally the so called Protection of the Environment Bill 2003, took all power with regard to waste policy away from the councillors. So I don't know what you are going on about by saying get elected and influence the decision.
and your rubbish
cinderella