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Minutes of Indymedia Meeting (16th Sep 2006)

category dublin | indymedia ireland | news report author Monday September 18, 2006 20:28author by Anthony - Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group Report this post to the editors

Minutes of the first proper Indymedia meeting to take place since May 2005. This meeting formed the first (brain-storming) part of a proposal on the imc-ireland mailing list by a list subscriber to "have an organizing conference in September to deal with important outstanding issues surrounding the running of indymedia.".

The meeting began with each participant introducing themselves and stating their involvement in Indymedia. It was then pointed out by the chair that there was too much on the agenda for a two-hour meeting so a discussion began as to what the priorities for the meeting should be.

12:30 Wider Collective:

The current theoretical structure was outlined but it's not currently working as it was originally envisioned. Problems with the current structure were then identified and barriers to getting involved were noted on the flip chart:

  • Unclear decision making process
  • Not enough links between online community and real life community
  • Feeling that you have to be an editor to be involved
  • Not clear how to link editorial group to wider collective + individual groups to wider collective (editorial group ended up being the only aspect of Indymedia)
  • Not enough real world meetings / Reliance on virtual meeting space
  • Structures that exist and role of editors not clear to general public

After the problems had been identified, participants were asked to brainstorm with suggestions to solve the problems as outlined above. To ensure that the meeting remained a productive one, participants were asked not to criticise other suggestions but to focus on presenting their own. They were asked to begin their sentence with “One thing that we can do is ...”:

  • establish who has a vote in the wider collective - allowing proxy votes
  • put together an organising list for video and film-makers
  • develop an online resource for women
  • create extra categories to encourage different groups to use the site
  • print a small document to publicise the site to outreach to other groups
  • meet those people in the real world
  • create a separate out-reach mailing list
  • create a new list for abuse reports
  • make a clear decision that the current Indymedia collective is only web-site Indymedia
  • constitute this group meeting here as the Dublin Indymedia collective who makes decisions by consensus


13:00 Gender

For this section the participants of the meeting broke up into three groups each dealing with a question relating to the issues of gender and sexism:

1) What can be done to increase women's participation?
(As reported and minuted by James)

  • There are different types of participation, producing articles and cleaning the newswire work.
  • There should be positive discrimination for women aimed at involving more in both aspects. There is a perception that imc.ie is a closed shop and even if that isn't true, positive steps should be taken to ensure that it isn't.
  • It was suggested this could involve doing 3 or 4 workshops a year aimed at women who might be interested in using the site, for example members of community campaigns, feminist groups. These workshops would be aimed at encouraging women who aren't familiar with Indymedia to use it as a place to publish stories etc
  • Conduct 3 or 4 workshops per year for female users or female members of groups who use Indymedia. These workshops would be focussed on detailing how the site is administered: what the editors, techies, etc do, how to help out with that. How to become an editor and to offer practical assistance to women interested in this aspect of Indymedia.
  • More real world meetings would serve to put faces on names, and make Indymedia a more friendly environment as the lists can be too impersonal.
  • To take measures to facilitate the attendance of people who have kids at Indymedia meetings.
  • To have explicit list guidelines in order to ensure appropriate behaviour on the lists. Apart from explicit sexist or racist mails being prohibited, people should be sensitive to minorities on the lists. So, remarks which may be intended to be funny, can easily be interpreted as being smartarsey and thus contribute to an environment where women feel less than welcome. Everybody should be able to participate in discussions without fear of abuse, intimidation or snide remarks.
  • To reconsider the system whereby one editor can block anybody from becoming an editor. This could be abused in a rogue fashion, to prevent appropriate people from becoming editors on the grounds of sex, race, affiliation etc.

2) What is sexism and how is it experienced?
(As reported and minuted by R)

Sexism is when people are treated differently because of their sex/gender

In an indymedia context we felt that the perception of sexism is enough to convince people of a real sexism on behalf of the indymedia collective even when this is not the case. This perception is encountered in threads where people make agresssive accusations of sexism. This may turn some women away from becoming more involved as contributors or editors.

One person felt that indymedia.ie needs to be more proactive in dealing with the perception of sexism, by directly responding to accusations and encouraging women to get involved.

We felt that while the gender balance of the indymedia collective is obviously a problem, it is symptomatic of an activist community in which men are generally in the majority. Regular contributors to indymedia are predominantly male.

Perhaps women are deterred from becoming more involved in indymedia due to the assumption of gender roles, i.e. by assuming they wouldn't be abe to do any of the technical stuff necessary.

We were also concerned with tokenism, i.e. putting more women onto the editorial collective merely because they were women, without addressing the wider cultural and institutional problems.

Someone also remarked about the length of the procedure necessary for people to become editors, perhaps this needs to be made more transparent.

3) What Are The Barriers To Women In Indymedia?
(As reported and minuted by Ray)

  • Technical Skills
  • Time
  • Media Arts - Radio, TV, Web, can be technical in nature
  • Lack of Awareness
  • Activism - Women more active in creative arts, constructive real-world activities
  • Isolation / Minority - feeling of being in a minority
  • Not Real World Enough
  • Problem of Society - Gender Bias in society
  • Prioritisation of Women
  • What is Required to be an Editor?
  • Lack of Active Recruitment
  • Existence of Blocks in Society - Stopping people joining a 'club'
  • Lack of Gender Issues Covered
  • Lack of Separate Section for Women
  • Fear of Speaking Out


13:40 Email List

The last item on the agenda was the running of the email lists. As we were short of time, we went directly to suggestions for improving the working of the email lists. The following problems and suggestions came up.

  • Written Code of Conduct – Personalised comments should be proscribed
  • Good Netiquette should be adhered to
  • Introduce moderators who are not editors – recall and rotation of such
  • Use a web-based forum instead of email list
  • Have a list secretary – to keep track of proposals & decisions
  • Clear and Separate Procedure for Complaints
  •  Sensitivity should to women are in the minority
  • Separate Abuse Reports into Another List – Limit the Amount of such reports that can be made by any one individual
  • Positive Expression of Safe Space Guidelines
  • Lack of Understanding of Threading
  • Suggestion that people think through proposals clearly
  • Introduce user-friendly procedures
  • Specialist Lists for different activities
  • A volunteer should be designated to answer the
  • Reasons given in editorial notifications should not be abusive
  • Set up a separate list to discuss process


Finally, it was agreed that all proposals based on this brain-storming session would be discussed on the imc-ireland list. All formal proposals should be submitted to the imc-ireland list for consideration at the next meeting.

James volunteered to collate the agenda for the next meeting and if collating similar proposals would get the permission of the original proposers beforehand.

It was agreed that anyone making a proposal will have to physically present to present their proposal at the next meeting. If they are unable to attend themselves, they will have to organise a proxy to attend on their behalf.

It was then suggested that editors should discuss in the mean-time whether consensus or voting would be used for decision-making at the next meeting. Editors would have to agree on the standing orders before the meeting takes place regarding decisions running the site.

It was suggested that the Dublin collective should meet once a month as a separate entity.

It was agreed that minutes of this meeting will be posted to the Indymedia newswire. As the subject of the article includes how the site is run or could be run, commenting on editorial policy will be allowed but all other editorial guidelines will be enforced rather than having a repeat of the previous article on Indymedia where a lot of abuse was tolerated. It was also agreed that proposals for the next meeting could be discussed on the newswire report of this meeting.

It was agreed that the next real world meeting would take place on 7th October 2006.

 #   Title   Author   Date 
   The second working group on sexism     R.    Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:24 
   Reply     Woman    Tue Sep 19, 2006 13:02 
   Indymedia is still all about DIY     redjade    Tue Sep 19, 2006 13:24 
   Question of Woman     Q    Tue Sep 19, 2006 13:34 
   Q     pat c    Tue Sep 19, 2006 13:46 
   comments on the meeting and the minutes     republica    Tue Sep 19, 2006 13:52 
   Sexism and personal attacks     Stuart    Tue Sep 19, 2006 15:11 
   General wishes versus specific constructive ideas     Thinking    Tue Sep 19, 2006 15:34 
   clarification     tom eile    Tue Sep 19, 2006 16:48 
 10   Good Meeting     Miriam    Tue Sep 19, 2006 18:03 
 11   Are you going to make a proposal then?     James R    Tue Sep 19, 2006 18:03 
 12   Miriam     James R    Tue Sep 19, 2006 18:07 
 13   james r     pat c    Tue Sep 19, 2006 18:12 
 14   Minutes have been updated     Anthony    Tue Sep 19, 2006 19:28 
 15   Agenda formation     Chris Murray    Tue Sep 19, 2006 19:30 
 16   And wondering what on earth is going on     Looking On    Tue Sep 19, 2006 19:47 
 17   Ah me, James!     Miriam    Tue Sep 19, 2006 19:53 
 18   Not at all.     Chris Murray    Tue Sep 19, 2006 19:58 
 19   in spite of the spite - good to see people talk     redjade    Tue Sep 19, 2006 20:02 
 20   CHRIS     reader    Tue Sep 19, 2006 20:06 
 21   I don't make myself clear-apologies     Chris Murray    Tue Sep 19, 2006 20:10 
 22   Still Confused     Looking On    Tue Sep 19, 2006 20:11 
 23   Clickity Click     James R    Tue Sep 19, 2006 20:19 
 24   NWCI     Chris Murray    Tue Sep 19, 2006 20:20 
 25   General wishes versus specific constructive ideas     Stuart    Tue Sep 19, 2006 20:55 
 26   Proposals and discussion on the list     Terence    Tue Sep 19, 2006 21:00 
 27   Yes     Yes    Tue Sep 19, 2006 21:00 
 28   Ok     Chris Murray    Tue Sep 19, 2006 21:05 
 29   Yes, Complaints procedure     Stuart    Tue Sep 19, 2006 22:39 
 30   What is Indymedia?     seedot    Wed Sep 20, 2006 00:44 
 31   And Not Finding Much     Seeking Help    Wed Sep 20, 2006 01:32 
 32   In response to the previous comment by 'Seeking Help'     Paul Baynes    Wed Sep 20, 2006 01:50 
 33   And Finding Belief     Seeking Help    Wed Sep 20, 2006 01:57 
 34   In response to the previous comment by 'Seeking Help'     Paul Baynes    Wed Sep 20, 2006 02:13 
 35   some links - what is indymedia pt II     seedot    Wed Sep 20, 2006 02:18 
 36   And Finding a Lack of Understanding     Seeking Help    Wed Sep 20, 2006 02:25 
 37   Personal correspondence     seedot    Wed Sep 20, 2006 02:35 
 38   Deer Seedot     Seeking Help    Wed Sep 20, 2006 02:48 
 39   Girls on IndyMedia     Robyn    Wed Sep 20, 2006 05:08 
 40   seedot     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:02 
 41   Cork Meeting Proposal     Miriam    Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:56 
 42   Chekov & Mentally Ill     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:56 
 43   Pat C's agenda     @genda    Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:09 
 44   Jasus - Just been directed to this thread     D    Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:09 
 45   @genda (Which Editor?     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:16 
 46   pat c and sexism     ronan    Wed Sep 20, 2006 13:26 
 47   Procedures & Policies     Stuart    Wed Sep 20, 2006 13:56 
 48   Ronan in Denial     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:03 
 49   A few questions for Pat C?     The Truth    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:14 
 50   the truth     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:19 
 51   Clarification     Ronan    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:27 
 52   Answer the question Pat     The Truth    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:28 
 53   the truth     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:32 
 54   Proposals please not repetition     Terence    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:34 
 55   Pat C     The Truth    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:36 
 56   Terence     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:38 
 57   Institutional whatever     Andrew    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:40 
 58   Henchman?     The truth    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:42 
 59   the truth     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:46 
 60   Mentall ill     Andrew    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:47 
 61   andrew     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:49 
 62   Andrew     The Truth    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:50 
 63   Reply     Chris Murray    Wed Sep 20, 2006 14:50 
 64   a couple of points.     Padraic    Wed Sep 20, 2006 15:09 
 65   Reply     Andrew    Wed Sep 20, 2006 15:14 
 66   re: REPLY     redjade    Wed Sep 20, 2006 15:35 
 67   Andrew     The Truth is out there    Wed Sep 20, 2006 15:46 
 68   Rotatio     reader    Wed Sep 20, 2006 15:47 
 69   Response to some comments     Anthony    Wed Sep 20, 2006 15:47 
 70   reader     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:00 
 71   meh     seedot    Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:07 
 72   rotation     seedot    Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:15 
 73   More indymedia stuff on bookfair     Andrew    Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:25 
 74   Clarification     The Truth is out there    Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:34 
 75   seedot     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:38 
 76   what a waste of time     redjade    Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:44 
 77   final post for a while     seedot    Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:46 
 78   redjade     pat c    Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:48 
 79   dog with a bone - another pedantic post     seedot    Wed Sep 20, 2006 17:04 
 80   Padraic     Miriam    Wed Sep 20, 2006 17:30 
 81   the maths     Andrew    Wed Sep 20, 2006 17:36 
 82   The maths     stuart    Wed Sep 20, 2006 18:38 
 83   What?     what    Wed Sep 20, 2006 19:30 
 84   Strengten links with local groups     Dave D    Wed Sep 20, 2006 21:49 
 85   oy...     IMCista    Wed Sep 20, 2006 23:30 
 86   Enough already!     Astro    Thu Sep 21, 2006 00:38 
 87   Good words from all     seedot    Thu Sep 21, 2006 00:57 
 88   Divide & Rule     DI    Thu Sep 21, 2006 07:41 
 89   propose whatever you want     padraic    Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:35 
 90   IMC volunteers from outside Ireland     Chris Murray    Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:05 
 91   vague proposals     seedot    Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:07 
 92   Seedot/Pat     Miriam    Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:17 
 93   Miriam     pat c    Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:24 
 94   how many times...     mOuse    Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:43 
 95   mOuse     Miriam    Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:48 
 96   Three points     Paul Baynes    Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:52 
 97   Paul     pat c    Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:03 
 98   I think you miss my point Miriam     seedot    Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:29 
 99   Seedot     Miriam    Thu Sep 21, 2006 13:21 
 100   OK, I'll speak truth to power....     redjade    Thu Sep 21, 2006 16:07 
 101   A few comments     Deirdre Clancy    Thu Sep 21, 2006 16:07 
 102   1. Deirdre & 2. Institutional Sexism     pat c    Thu Sep 21, 2006 17:04 
 103   Virtual Slaps on the wrist.     James R    Thu Sep 21, 2006 17:27 
 104   User guide exists     reader    Thu Sep 21, 2006 17:44 
 105   Proposal: Add Document Wiki to Side bar     James R    Thu Sep 21, 2006 17:59 
 106   Thanks for your contribution Deirdre     sovietpop    Thu Sep 21, 2006 18:11 
 107   Deirdre/Seedot     Miriam    Thu Sep 21, 2006 18:12 
 108   Response to Pat C     Deirdre Clancy    Thu Sep 21, 2006 18:24 
 109   Are Iosaf, Miriam, PatC and ChrisM all the same person?     Malarkey    Thu Sep 21, 2006 18:26 
 110   Malarkey     pat c    Thu Sep 21, 2006 18:34 
 111   1 of indymedia.ie     padraic    Thu Sep 21, 2006 18:48 
 112   We are all one in love Pat     Malarkey    Thu Sep 21, 2006 19:20 
 113   Malarkey's Intimidation     Miriam    Thu Sep 21, 2006 19:57 
 114   "ushering in a new era for indymedia ireland"     iosaf .:. ipsiphi    Thu Sep 21, 2006 20:04 
 115   Miriam     Deirdre Clancy    Thu Sep 21, 2006 20:06 
 116   re "the chris & miriam & iosaf & pat C" grouping     iosaf    Thu Sep 21, 2006 20:59 
 117   Oasif you don't stir shit, you do for the sake of it     blaa    Thu Sep 21, 2006 21:05 
 118   i dont want to get into a debate here. let's take it to the general list.     io    Thu Sep 21, 2006 21:24 
 119   Deirdre     Miriam    Thu Sep 21, 2006 21:29 
 120   Poor Editors     writer    Thu Sep 21, 2006 22:30 
 121   Are we not being very limited     seedot    Fri Sep 22, 2006 00:06 
 122   Trying to mediate     Paul Baynes    Fri Sep 22, 2006 01:31 
 123   Addressing allegations of sexism     Robyn    Fri Sep 22, 2006 07:16 
 124   padraic     pat c    Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:54 
 125   Malarkey Indeed     pat c    Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:08 
 126   Deirdre     pat c    Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:31 
 127   "Condiments of the morning," said Eeyore gloomily     Stuart    Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:45 
 128   Paul B     Miriam    Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:33 
 129   Red tinted glasses     reader    Fri Sep 22, 2006 14:32 
 130   Gender, Communication, and Cyberspace     pat c    Fri Sep 22, 2006 14:48 
 131   Reader     Miriam    Fri Sep 22, 2006 22:24 
 132   balance     aoibheann    Sat Sep 23, 2006 00:00 
 133   Final Word     Deirdre Clancy    Sat Sep 23, 2006 00:16 
 134   Deirdre     Miriam    Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:58 
 135   Deirdre     pat c    Sat Sep 23, 2006 15:13 
 136   Stop the emails now... campaign.     Buried    Sat Sep 23, 2006 15:53 
 137   Perspectives     Frank    Sat Sep 23, 2006 16:18 
 138   This is untrue.     reader    Sat Sep 23, 2006 16:45 
 139   Here we go again (against my better judgment)     Deirdre Clancy    Sat Sep 23, 2006 22:52 
 140   Editors are not technical. Html is not technical. Email is not technical.     Record Keeper    Sat Sep 23, 2006 23:19 
 141   Editors are technical by their own insistence     Miriam    Sun Sep 24, 2006 07:03 
 142   IndyMedia Editor - role description     Robyn    Sun Sep 24, 2006 08:45 
 143   Please do use your better judgment Dee!!!     Miriam    Sun Sep 24, 2006 09:47 
 144   Redjade     Miriam    Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:46 
 145   a war of attrition by a few     redjade    Sun Sep 24, 2006 13:00 
 146   Something Practical     Frank    Sun Sep 24, 2006 17:02 
 147   Response     underneaththebridge    Sun Sep 24, 2006 17:18 
 148   Agree with Redjade     Deirdre Clancy    Sun Sep 24, 2006 18:23 
 149   Playing the ball     Frank    Mon Sep 25, 2006 01:32 
 150   To Frank     Curious    Mon Sep 25, 2006 02:37 
 151   Simple Simon     Paradox    Mon Sep 25, 2006 02:48 
 152   Paeadox     pat c    Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:12 
 153   Sexist allegations are ridiculous and divisive     Robyn    Mon Sep 25, 2006 19:46 
 154   Robyn     redbreast    Mon Sep 25, 2006 19:53 
 155   Robyn     pat c    Mon Sep 25, 2006 20:02 
 156   Paradox - 'Face it Miriam, you are a bitch'     Miriam    Mon Sep 25, 2006 20:34 
 157   Do you read anything     underneaththebrdige    Mon Sep 25, 2006 21:00 
 158   heres an answer, from my perspective     sock puppet (too intimidated by M to use my own name, sorry)    Mon Sep 25, 2006 23:00 
 159   To curious     Frank    Mon Sep 25, 2006 23:24 
 160   Quick point     Padraic - 1 of indymedia.ie editors    Tue Sep 26, 2006 00:08 
 161   Speaking Frankly     Curious    Tue Sep 26, 2006 01:11 
 162   I have written on several topics in addition to Tara     Robyn    Tue Sep 26, 2006 01:15 
 163   No worries Robyn     Ciaron    Tue Sep 26, 2006 01:46 
 164   A Suggestion     pat c    Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:50 
 165   Unmanageable (personal capacity)     Chris    Wed Oct 04, 2006 13:45 
 166   Equality Tribunal     pat c    Wed Oct 04, 2006 16:48 
 167   ??     MW    Wed Oct 04, 2006 18:06 
 168   MW     pat c    Wed Oct 04, 2006 18:09 
 169   The Elephant in the Room!     Fred Johnston    Mon Oct 23, 2006 21:02 
 170   mammoth     john smith    Mon Oct 23, 2006 22:00 
 171   'John Smith'     Fred Johnston    Mon Oct 23, 2006 23:06 
 172   Michael O'Leary - the Master of surprise!!!     Michrelle Clarke    Tue Oct 24, 2006 00:35 
 173   Michelle are you the same person as Chris Murray?     Interested    Tue Oct 24, 2006 01:12 
 174   Can I be in the golden circle?     c.    Tue Oct 24, 2006 01:22 
 175   Ghosts in the Machine.     PaddyK    Tue Oct 24, 2006 02:17 
 176   Response to 'Michelle'     Fred Johnston    Tue Oct 24, 2006 04:06 
 177   humour     john smith    Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:10 
 178   To John Smith     Fred Joihnston    Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:46 
 179   more than you can legally publish     deepthroat    Tue Oct 24, 2006 13:01 
 180   Go run your own site     Bored with Moaners    Tue Oct 24, 2006 15:01 
 181   Censorship     Fred Johnston    Sat Nov 25, 2006 15:13 
 182   Read the guidelines Fred     req    Sat Nov 25, 2006 17:41 


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