Dáil Debate:-Bertie 'Lost' his Moral Compass-again

by SF girl Tue Oct 03, 2006 19:46

"The Taoiseach was clearly wrong to accept the personal donation at the Manchester event when he was Minister for Finance. Most people believe that he was not personally corrupt, unlike many within his party at the time. However, only the most naïve believe that he was not aware of what went on in the brown envelope and blank cheque culture of the Fianna Fáil leadership and among many of its elected members. Of course it was not confined to Fianna Fáil. Fine Gael, as shown by the Tribunals, has shown that it too shared a similar culture.

"There is no suggestion that members of the current Fianna Fáil/PD cabinet have personally benefited from bribes or backhanders during their term of office. But there's an old saying about the British journalist that could be adapted to this Government:

"You cannot hope to bribe or twist, thank God, the British journalist

But seeing what the man will do, unbribed, there's no occasion to.

"During this Government's term of office property speculators and developers have benefited directly as never before from Government decisions. The Fianna Fáil tent at the Galway Races has become a symbol of power, greed and elitism in Ireland the way Dublin Castle and the Kildare Street Club once were. The gulf of inequality in our society has widened -- something that the new Tánaiste, the self-styled moral guardian of the Government, thinks is a good thing.

"If it was wrong for the then Minister for Finance to accept money gifts from wealthy business people in 1994 isn't it even more wrong for a Taoiseach and a Government, for the past decade, to surrender the housing policy of the State to speculators and unscrupulous developers who are fleecing families with the ever spiralling cost of houses.

"These are the same developers who successfully lobbied the Government to amend Part V of the Planning and Development Act so that they would not have to meet their legal obligation to provide 20% social and affordable housing in all developments. This Government has brought in a form of legalised bribery -- because it has allowed the developers to pay off the local authorities. What other lobby group could have turned around a key piece of legislation in the same way?

"That is just one of the many reasons why this Taoiseach, this Tánaiste and the rest of this Cabinet should be thrown out of Government. These are far bigger issues than the current controversy. If the Manchester payment was, in the words of the Irish Independent, morally wrong, are decisions which adversely affect the lives of hundreds of thousands of people not also morally wrong? Are they not also deserving of media attention and commentary?

"What about the massive tax breaks and the allocation of land at public hospital sites for the developers of private for-profit hospitals? This is in the context of a grossly inequitable health service where instead of the promised 3,000 beds, we have had a thousand trolley usages in the last five days.

"I might add that there are no marches on the street about the current controversy but people are taking to the streets demanding their healthcare rights as we saw recently in Monaghan and as we will see again on Saturday 21st October when we in Sinn Féin hold a healthcare rally in Dublin.

"In the last number of weeks we have seen the announcement of almost fourteen hundred job losses across this state in Limerick, Carlow, Cork, Waterford, Inchicore in Dublin and in my own home county of Monaghan. It is unlikely however, that many of them will have circles of wealthy friends ready to help them out in such a time of financial crisis.

"Today at Ballinaboy in Mayo, we saw another example of the natural consequences of the connection between Fianna Fáil and big business. Early this morning Gardaí were outsourced to Shell Oil to serve as their enforcers against local people who have maintained a round the clock vigil at the site in protest at attempts to force a dangerous and unsafe pipeline through their community.

"This morning two of them were injured while being dragged off the road at the behest of Shell. The people of Mayo stood up to evictions by rack-renting landlords during the Land War. They will stand up to Shell Oil as well. And what about the role of former Minister Ray Burke in the negotiation of the terms for oil and gas exploration, the most generous in the world to giant multinationals?

"Let there be no mistake about it, the people deserve an explanation from the Taoiseach about this series of payments, loans and gifts from wealthy businessmen. But the events of the last week should not distract us from this Government's long-standing political bankruptcy, and that is something that no whip-round will be able to remedy.

"All of these are valid reasons for the entire Fianna Fáil/PD Government to resign and for a General Election to be called. And the sooner the better."

by C murray Tue Oct 03, 2006 19:56

I was stopped and separated from a group of four people and asked if I had a notebook
- the security guard called me by name. He told me to submit my writing materials to the security at
the observation area because the public gallery was 'for observation only'.
This has never happened before, I always leave my bag, but walk quite openly with a notebook into the Dail.

The public are allowed to carrying writing materials into the Dail.
He also stood in front of me, so that I was left behind the group that I entered with.
I reported the incident to Finian Mc Grath.

I tried to re-join the group of TD guests-which I was (with a notebook) and could not
find them , I decided against the observation area as I did not want to leave notes
and addresses , phone-numbers in that area.

There was no security desk at AV.

Is it normal practice to pactively prevent a civilain and guest in the Dail from taking notes?

I am going back tomorrow to get his name and formally complain.

by pat c Tue Oct 03, 2006 20:01

there should be plenty of journalists around leinster house. give them the story. this is outrageous.

ask finian or some other TD to raise a PQ about it. Theres no way this guy was acting on his own. make sure you lodge a written complaint.

by DM Tue Oct 03, 2006 21:21

No one has ever been allowed to take notes in the observation gallery in the Dail. It's standard practice because there are offical minute takers (those two people at the end of the centre stand where the chair and his advisers sit) and to challlenge the dail archive minutes would cause alot of shit. Of course the practice is defunct now as all the dail proceedings are video taped and the minute takers only sit there for ceremony. At this stage it's only piontless tradition but if you've ever been to the dail or asked a TD you'll know that the Dail's full of that stuff and the Ushers and Captain of the gaurd cling on to it religously.

by Chris Murray Tue Oct 03, 2006 21:33

I have asked for permission to attend the Dail on numerous occassions.
I have covered the Sex laws, the NMA , gone as an observor.
I go in drop my bag and bring a shorthand notebook.
The usher brings you to a seat. you sit down take out the notebook.
he asks you to switch of the phone.
sometimes the gallery is as empty as the chamber.
I have never been stopped at the desk, asked if I am carrying a notebook.
told to put it away and submit writing materials to the desk.

I have complained to Finian Mc Grath , told him I was doing an indy thing
in the presence of two other people. Finian told me to ignore the guard and
continue on to the gallery.

This has never happened before.
I also attended the launches of Bills in the Dept of the Environment, where the P.A's
seated me, said of course indy was entitled to ask a question and facilitated in every
way. The only two places where access was restricted were at St Patricks Cathedral
and the NRA conference, where security threatened to eject us but were over-ridden by
the conference facilitators and we got a front row centre seat and an apology.

by Stand by Your Man Tue Oct 03, 2006 22:07

Just in: Tanaiste Mc Dowell , after consulting with his Parliamentary party will stand by
The Taoiseach. He feels that he accquitted himself well-so now we can all breathe
as Big Mac is propping the Parliament with his 4% share of the Vote.

Looks like a Job for FF, who allowed their leader to endow Mc Dowell with
this power.

Minister Mc Dowell has taken up the nine O Clock news headlines with his altruism.

by Roger Whittaker Tue Oct 03, 2006 23:04

Bertie Ahern seems to have got away with being corrupt and you are going on about whether you can or can't have notebooks and pens in the Dail! Incredible.........

by Progressive Democrat Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:41

"The Taoiseach , Bertie Ahern , has today accounted to Dail Eireann
in respect of certain disclosures concerning the accpetance by
him of certain monies in 1993 and 1994, which came to light
as a result of unlawful leaking(!) of information supplied to the
Mahon Tribunal"

(Snip)

"The simple remaining question in all of this is......

should Bertie remain Taoiseach. (yay or nay, Micheal)

" Our View on today's events is that Bertie Ahern is fit to continue
as Taoiseach." (yay-then)

(propped by the PD Party who have the moral upper-hand,
4% of the national vote and the wilted Bertie to make hay with)

The speech is of course on the PD website:
http://www.progressivedemocrats.ie/press_room/2057/

Last line is a killer :
"WE LOOK FORWARD TO PUTTING THESE EVENTS BEHIND US
AND COMPLETING OUR TERM OF OFFICE"

Even though the dogs on the street know that corruption
breeds corruption.

by Chris Murray - The Unmanageables Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:04

Feck- I had a five Euro bet that Mc Dowell would be gone by Tommorrow, making him the
shortest-serving Tanaiste in the history of the State.

Apparently the FF party do not mind crippling through till May with the moral compass
being provided by the worst Justice spokesperson in the history of the State, a
severly wounded Taoiseach (Cowen was in front of Mahon yesterday too), and a
supposedly give-away budget-

Wall, one of BB's(Bertie's Benefactors) has been outed as the man who helped with
Bertie's accomodations and a fellow-traveller in Manchester. We would have to
have an election if the CRH nexus was fully investigated, the one-off housing bill,
the crony corruption -right down to the Thornton Hall Scandal.

Thus FF don't mind the man with 4% of the National Vote propping them, the
budget Viagra will take away the pain- only thing is politics is about perception
and FF have handed the moral perogative to big Mac (that's damaging)

Unless, of course the 'transparent leaking' to the Irish Times Geraldine Kennedy
was done by a triad in FF who want to continue the programme for government,
the 23 bills (all possibly to be Guillotined by end of term) and quietly oust
Mr Ahern before May of next year. In this scenario Mc Dowell's negative
publicity , anti-citizen laws (Privacy/Defamation- Immigration/Residence/Protection)
which are deeply unpopular- can be pushed through by FF, until Mc Dowell
too becomes dispensible.

by C Murray Thu Oct 05, 2006 21:11

(Update)

Bertie attacks Mary, who stood aside after being 'asked' by the Present Tanaiste
(will he be the shortest serving Tanaiste in the History of the State?)

Big Mac had an axe to gring about her standing with Charlie Mc Greevy
and woods over the Church State indemnity deal: which Indemnified the
church to 1/10 of the state contribution- not value for money....

*Bertie claimed that Ms Harney was fully aware of the monies he received.*

Mac Dowell, as Attorney general , was 'kept out' of the indemnity deal
and Woods chaired the sex law debate in the absence of both the Taoiseach
and the CeannComhairle.

The PD's are continuity FF and the dirty little laws against press freedom
against freedom of expression are a vehicle for the FF 'ers that cannot bring
themselves to apply the laws (thats what the Tanaiste is for).

It's quite a cat-fight. (he should take it to the people-start in Rossport)

If Bertie goes down he's taking the ship.

by C Murray - The Unmanageables Fri Oct 06, 2006 18:50

Moansday.
Tearsday.
Wailsady.
Thumpsday.
Frightday.
Shatterday.
Shunday.

Latest.

Bertie will not bring down government.
Big Mac. Has work to do.

A female editor of the Irish Times
faces imprisonment.

by C Murray Tue Oct 10, 2006 17:23

Michael Mc Dowell had it in his back pocket.

They have agreed a deal (good for them)

The budget is coming and Northern Ireland won't sort it out with the two
Bush supporters on the political ropes.

No details of it yet, except that the rumour mill is claiming that the leak was 'internal'
(FF), maybe people are unhappy that Bertie seems to have handed both the moral perogative
to support a corrupt government to the worst Justice minister in the history of the state
(4% of the vote) and it may be the beginning of an internal pusch against Ahern.

However, with all that money to spend it'll be forgotten soon enough.

The uses of popcorn:- Celia is summoned before Mahon to show her acccounts
during the time of her relationship with Mr Ahern.

There is still the thorny issue of Geraldine Kennedy.
The allowance by the government of the flawed legislation at the heart of
Minister Mc Dowell's bills including Section 5 of the sex laws and the problems
with press freedom inherent in the Privacy and Defamation Bills.