Beating the Bin Tax in the New Year

by Consumer Mon Jan 22, 2007 20:49

In Galway a private operator has come in and undercut the council service. They are offering a flat rate charge whereas the council (like Dublin) have a price per collection and a flat rate service charge regardless of use. How can DCC manage to operate a monopoly and charge a flat rate service to all living in their area of control?

by Consumer Wed Jan 24, 2007 14:34

.....is a good dose of competition.

by Jasper Wed Jan 24, 2007 14:47

"In Galway a private operator has come in and undercut the council service. They are offering a flat rate charge whereas the council (like Dublin) have a price per collection and a flat rate service charge regardless of use. How can DCC manage to operate a monopoly and charge a flat rate service to all living in their area of control?"

I'm not sure about the breakdown of the charrges in Galway but I know that in Dublin the flat rate is pretty low and then you pay per lift. The pay per lift charge is there to incentivise recycling. If you're just paying the a flat rate, where's the incentive to recycle? The more you recycle, the less lifts there are and thus you pay less.

by Consumer Thu Jan 25, 2007 00:21

The council being allowed to charge regardless of lifts gives all the indications of a monopolistic viewpoint. The fact that they can bill everybody in their council area a charge regardless of the amount of lifts strikes me as being a tad stalinist. Bring on competition.

by Jasper Thu Jan 25, 2007 08:51

"The council being allowed to charge regardless of lifts gives all the indications of a monopolistic viewpoint. The fact that they can bill everybody in their council area a charge regardless of the amount of lifts strikes me as being a tad stalinist. Bring on competition"

It would be but they havve basic costs to cover, hence the flat rate. It's actually quite low in Dublin especially compared to other counties. In my homeplace, it's run by a private operator who charges a flat rate of €300+.

In the Dublin City Council area, it's roughly €85 flat and then a fiver for every lift (for the 240 litre wheelie bin) and roughly €65 flat with €3 per lift for the 120 litre bin.

Since these charges came in, we've been able to change from a 240 litre black bin to a 120 litre black bin because we can recycle quite a bit in the green bin and through recycling centres. The black bin is left out every fortnight at worst. So even if its left out every fortnight, we're saving on what it used be. There's the incentive of recycling.

But the flat rate is needed to cover the basic waste management costs and at less than €100 a year, it's far from exorbitant.

by Hellfire Thu Jan 25, 2007 09:00

A €100 annually is exorbitant to some one who hasn’t got it.

The Bin Tax is a double tax, it is paid for already. What is so difficult about that to understand?

Oh by the way Jasper, I thought you lived in Rings end.

Give over ya mouthpiece.

by The Whopper Thu Jan 25, 2007 09:35

"But the flat rate is needed to cover the basic waste management costs and at less than €100 a year, it's far from exorbitant."

MacDonalds should be allowed to charge all food eaters in Dublin €100 a year regardless of whether they eat in MacDonalds at all.

by Jasper Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:05

Hellfire: I didn't say I lived in Ringsend.But I live just the far side of the East Link. More double taxation nonsense....how much do you think the tax revenue covers?

The Whopper: MacDonalds are a prvate businesss. The local authority has to cover the costs of managing the entire waste in it's jurisdiction. You're example is completely irrelevant.

by Caobhin Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:50

"..how much do you think the tax revenue covers?"

The FF/PD junta are constantly bragging about how much (of OUR) money they are going to bestow on us from record tax surpluses so you should be directing your shortfall query at them. The bin tax endgame has always been the privatisation of refuse collections, the tax is only relatively low in Dublin because of the resistance of the ABTC. In practice though DCC are learning the sharp practice of private operators very quickly though -witnessed by their effrontery in billing non-payers for lift charges on bins that are not emptied so non-payers of the double tax are also now being billed twice for the same rubbish.

by Hellfire Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:54

It amazes me that this blatanlty obvious double taxation is beyond the comprehension of FF/PD apologists.
Privatisation is the name of the game. Next up water.

by Jasper Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:59

Firstly, I'm no FF/PD apologist. They're there because of the incompetence oif the rest, and given some of the people that re in power, that's quite an indictment.

But I'd rather the tax revenue went on more pressing matters such as health. I'd rather pay bin charges and have a better health service. Everything has an opportunity cost.

Privatisation of waste collection isn't always the way to go but I'm sure we'll find out in due course.

Also, I can't see why people champion the cause of a private company because they undercut the flat rate of the local authority and where it doesn't matter how many times the bin is collected....where's the incentive to recycle?

Or is the bottom line all that ever matters?

by Council worker - DCC Fri Jan 26, 2007 08:02

A typical bin truck will cover 1,200 houses a day whether every house, half the houses or other fraction puts out a bin for collection.
The costs are the same if they collect 1,200 bins or 600 bins in terms of wages, fuel and other overheads.
The men are on " task and finish" so it's not unusual to see them finish a route by 10 a.m.
If I cut back on electricity consumption or phone calls I will still pay a recurring standing charge for the service to the utility provider yet there is no manual or physical intervention in getting the service to my house. The bin truck and crew must pass my door and complete the route regardless.
The local authorities do not want privatisation. The Waste Management Plan and the investment in the infrastructure have been predicated on the local authorities managing the waste into the future.
I have no axe to grind either way, this is just an observation.

by Joe Fri Jan 26, 2007 09:52

Local Authorities don't want privatisation! I would advise you to look out your window once every two weeks (soon to be weekly) and watch the low paid workers collet your paper and put it in a green truck. Wake up!

by SlaineMacRoth Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:14

Waste collection is a public good so throwing it out to the market will result in higher prices and a worse environmental record. The reason a public waste collection Act was initially put in place in the late nineteenth century -making local authorities collect waste - was on public hygiene and health grounds (although lets leave aside that, prior to lobbyin, it failed to include Ireland in the same act….).

We're seeing an increase in illegal dumping, pests (even worse with water privatisation in the UK*) and the private operators are waiting with bated breath at the prospect of being suppliers to the black-hole of incinerators.

This is why the Greens are opposed after initially being stung. Also, if we wish to incentives recycling first of all we implement the first of the 3 Rs i.e. we reduce. And what I mean by that is we reduce at source, and then reduce demand to reach the optimal societal and environmental level.
After that, if you want to see incentivisation - (and for the sake of argument )- then you can >Pay< per weight instead of charging per weight.

Eh.. except we'll never see that type of incentivisation as charging in a public utility such as waste collection is a precursor to privatisation.

It's a thin edge of a very fat wedge.

*

by Ringsend Anti-Bin tax Campaign Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:38

Panda Waste who also do CCTV, Drains etc are moving into the privatised domestic waste 'Market' in the Dun Laoghaire.
They've a pop up on their site saying that they are €105 cheaper than the Council.

That thin end of the wedge is getting thicker.

http://www.pandawaste.com/

by Barry M Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:06

Excellent post slain. Its all swings and roundabouts to these guys with one feeding the other.

Privatisation is on the way for waste collection. Local Authorities across the country are already using private operaters to that end. These operaters have a fully integrated cartel/monopoly set up(especially in areas where the council have halted collection) and are beggining to realise they can charge what they like.

I'm glad the Greens saw through this shame. Industrial waste and its shameful abuse of resources must be tackled first.