Jord Samoleski of Propagandhi on parecon, veganism and the politics of punk rock

by Tech1.0 Sat Feb 10, 2007 16:00

.... explains The Future/Parecon, on Youtube.

Michael Albert on Parecon - part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ar6QN7jcNM

Michael Albert on Parecon - part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaKrJJBfPCg

Michael Albert on Parecon - part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve9pmnCcCNQ

"A great many activists and concerned people ask, quite rightly, what alternative form of social organization can be imagined that might overcome the grave flaws -- often real crimes -- of contemporary society in more far-reaching ways than short-term reform. Parecon is the most serious effort I know to provide a very detailed possible answer to some of these questions, crucial ones, based on serious thought and careful analysis."

--Noam Chomsky

by Feelgoood Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:05

Im a dead serious fan of punk music and have been for years,i believe a lot in what bands like Propagandhi,Pennywise,Rise Against etc are singing about such as animal cruelty,war,George W,Society being fucked and cruel etc and yet when i go to a gig some little shithead will come up to me and say what am i doing here im not a punk because i look like your everyday regular joe soap.Just because you dress like a punk and a have a so-called "punk" attitude doesnt mean jack shit,you look at Propagandhi for example they look like a bunch of average guys and yet they can be called one of the true fighting punk bands of modern times because of what they sing about and do to show they believe in what they are singing about like what was said up above about all the fans giving themselves a pat on the back about the anti-war demo and yet fuck all of them were there?
I try my best to let the music i listen to open my eyes to wrong doing and so on and then try to correct these things in whatever way i can in my life or try to open others peoples eyes to these problems which punk music is about.
I suppose what im trying to say is there is a lot of so called punks out there who are just in it for the in thing at the moment which is punk.i know there is a lot of people out there who dress punk and believe in the punk music and ive nothing against them by the way.

Punk has become a fashion statement and not a belief and practice i suppose is what im saying,just wondering does anyone agree with me?

by Himself Fri Jan 26, 2007 23:53

Is there something more artistically genuine in the music of Rovics that merits you telling people in UCD to stick to muzak if they decline to listen to him? It's rather high horsed that you think people not actually enjoying a Rovics show but prefering the more diverse and well, experimental acts at a fundraiser is a sign of "parochalism, monoculture and smalltown siege mentality of Dublin" - which in purely musical terms is not something the place could be accused of, but thats for another day. What I'm objecting to here is the idea that radical politics should automatically be infered from say punk, as one above poster suggests, or in the case of folk in the form of Rovics as a torch carrier. Just because somebody has good politics, does not mean they make good music - as anyone who was at the MC Lynx gig can attest. And just because a group of people do not like a form of political music that is being doled out, certainly does not imply the alternative they give themselves is muzak.

by Ciaron Fri Jan 26, 2007 22:27

Response to "Yer man"...your maths just don't add up.

Response to "himself"...the impressive vibe at the gig in London the other night was appreciation and respect across a number of styles, ages, ethnicities and subcultures.

Might have more to do with the multiculturalism and size of London in contrast to the parochalism, monoculture and smalltown siege mentality of Dublin.

Atilla and Blue Kings content was self aware of the road we've travelled since the advent of Punk. I don't know if the London scene produced any knights of the British realm....Dublin produced two!

Your comments are the usual confusion between being contrary and rebellious which is rampant here.
As is the inability to shut the fuck up when people from beyond the bog come to perform, Maybe UCD should stick to muzac,

by Yer Man Fri Jan 26, 2007 21:26

The desire for some to see Rovics as the troubador of the "Peace Movement" comes from them thinking that they're living in a replay of (what they inaccurately know about) the '60's.

Kerry (or H.Clinton, B.Obama,) == Robert F. Kennedy
David Rovics == Bob Dylan
etc.

All as false as it was then except that people burnt recruiting offices in the 60s and 70s.

by Himself Fri Jan 26, 2007 20:38

Rovics methoughts being pretty sceptical in relation to the present generation ability to grasp the torch and surpised they would be present to here an acoustic anarcho.

The obsession with Rovics among some of those on the left really is rather tiring at this stage. Sure - the guy does great work using his talents for fundraisers, but personally I can't abide by his music and not many can. This is not a comment on the man himself or on the ability of the present generation to 'grasp the torch.' I saw him play a fundraiser in UCD years ago to a hopelessly disinterested crowd. He turned around and asked the crowd to be quite and listen to him because he had travelled so far for the gig. That really doesn't do much to gain sympathy with an audience overwhelmingly there to see bands like Estel, Kidd Blunt and acts like Herv. All of these acts have played left wing fundraisers since then and are musically worthwhile listening without coming across like some left wing minstrel cariciture. Do you know that episode of the Simpson's where Homer leads a benefits strike and Lisa bangs away on the guitar? Thats what Rovics reminds me of. Some people seize on Rovics as the music maker of "the movement" and that is about as silly as those from outside the movement who thought George Monbiot spoke for "us." Attaching politics inherantly to a particular cultural form, as W outlines, can quickly lead to recuperation and a surface level radicalism that really means feck all. I'd prefer to think of political music in terms of little matches being flicked all over the gaff instead of some true torch being passed on.

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker Fri Jan 26, 2007 19:47

Spent the last month in London Town and last Monday got down to the Purple Turtle, near Euston, to catch David Rovics. Rovics did a benefit for us /Pit Stop Ploughshares during our last trial in Dublin and is back in February hosted by Anti-War Ireland. Got into the venue punctually at 7, good crowd already - young punctual punks. The first band up were from Alabama, and looked like it, one guy was playing a single piece of rope as a bass! The crowd kept building, a very young demographic for Rovics methoughts being pretty sceptical in relation to the present generation ability to grasp the torch and surpised they would be present to here an acoustic anarcho.

Rovics broke his guitar during his first song. Punk poet Atilla the Stocbroker
http://www.attilathestockbroker.com/#bio
jumped up and kept the crowd busy why one of the guys from the King Blues fetched his guitar for Rovics.

Rovics http://www.davidrovics.com/ is great, puts his politics before his career angry, funny, urgent and the man has melody. While we awaited our third trial last July I emailed his website and asked him to dedicate his song "Who Would Jesus Bomb" while he was touring to the Pit Stops on trial, he emailed back and offered to come to Dub to do a benefit. Chatting to him afterwards he had just been in DC with a lot of old CW friends of mine getting busted occupying the Federal Court, had been down at the School of the Americas this past November and more recently with squatters iin Denmark. It's a gift to have an artist moving around the grassroots bringing stories of hope and struggle with humour.

Then the King Blues came on and it started to make sense where this demographic of punctual, polite punks who were enjoying the variety of entertainment had come from. The King Blues http://www.myspace.com/thekingblues are the most politically engaged young band I've come across for a while.
They kept thanking late forty soemething Atilla form Hove and David for carrying the torch. Great insightful songs with an awareness of where they have come from and where we're all going together. Great night

by l'Anarcie pour UK Wed Jan 24, 2007 00:26

There is no such thing as a 'political punk'. You are confusing them with people who may like punk music and have adopted a type of punk dress to distinguish themselves from the main stream.

Punks are apolitical and anarchists.

by w. Tue Jan 23, 2007 23:52

"Incidentally, I was at this gig and the previous one five years ago. They were pretty amazing and the crowd good natured and fun. They sung along to all the songs, the significance and relevance of which I am certain was not lost on them."

I remember at the gig 5 years ago they dedicated a song to "everyone who was at the anti-war protest today" at which point all their fans went apeshit patting themselves on the back. I had been at the demo earlier that day taking pictures and there were only 3-4 other people there who had actually been on the demo. Later they dedicated a song to "carlo giuliani" and someone thought he was the mayor of new-york. While some punks may be political, or like to think of themselves that way, there are lots more who are just posturing or using an image of revolution to sell their band.

by Pungrokker Tue Jan 23, 2007 15:32

'"Bush is fucking evil," said Nick Harmer, bassist for Death Cab For Cutie. "The economy is for shit, and we're stuck in this unjust war that he lied about to get us to agree to. Me and the other guys in the band wanted to do something real to get him out of office. We were like, 'We gotta do a concert.'" '

Thanks for putting up the podcast too!

by punk rocker Tue Jan 23, 2007 14:55

"Jord is certainly unique for a punk he is articulate and polite with a great knowledge of politics."

I take exception to this characterisation. He is certainly not "unique".

Of all the modern musical genres, punk has been associated with political activism from the outset. In fact, the term "punk", to many people, supercedes the mere musical definition. Rather, it is an "attitude" of non-conformism and belief in freedom of expression - of many forms, not restricted to gender, veganism, political war-mongering etc.

Incidentally, I was at this gig and the previous one five years ago. They were pretty amazing and the crowd good natured and fun. They sung along to all the songs, the significance and relevance of which I am certain was not lost on them.

by potemkin city kid Mon Jan 22, 2007 21:03

The podcast is a bit noisey at the start though.