Left election slate formed?

by Speedy - fast track Thu May 01, 2008 21:03

Jez mark.. your fast with that brilliant analysis.....any comment on their role in selling out the 1913 lock out...any more pearls of anti swp wisdom?

by Mark Costello Thu May 01, 2008 16:31

The swp stole all her campaign team and brought them to Dun Laoire to canvass for RBB. They took over her A and E campaign and totally desertered her with no help. Carmel did a lot for us in Bray over the years only to be fooled by the SWP. Shame on the swp.

by Dub Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:49

Elections for socialists is not about just covering loads of constituencies. It's about building campaigns and assisting campaigns in local areas. That cannot be done seriously if people, leaflets, canvassing, etc. is very low because campaigners are spread around loads of seats. I think the SP and ISN are right to concentrate on few seats (or seat in ISN case!) and actually build real support and get a better quality campaign. SWP have not learned from this. They are still running in too many areas deluding themselves that they are "catching a mood". Any serious left organisation, at this stage in the class struggle, will concentrate on building serious roots in working class areas. Something the SWP have not done (except maybe RBB & Smith).

by norbit - cop on Thu Mar 15, 2007 03:07

since when is it all about winning elections the more ground socialists can cover the better,
buliding grass roots campaigns within there areas is the real goal!

by Fyodor Thu Mar 15, 2007 01:22

This most definitely was a cock up. In its essence it was a good idea despite all the surreptitious allegations that it was an SWP front to amalgamate left leaning figures under an umbrella of tacit unity. (The notion that it was designed to bounce Bree into a coalition is an extraordinarily clumsy conclusion considering he is by no means the biggest card in the pack- actually very very far from it)

The SWP has a lot to answer for in terms of its less than integral approach to garnering support in the past. Its inclusion as a broad consenting voice to an anti-mainstream voice should not be considered as a general seal of approval or a seal of credibility. They have a long way to go before that could be considered the case.

The main problem in retrospect will be the damage limitations employed by the actual heavy weights named in this alliance, namely Healy and Collins.

Any association by proxy with the SWP and indeed the WP will require a level of explanation to their base that may not be forthcoming and surely will prove reticent in the event that the alliance reveals itself to be an aspirational stunt.

All things considered, this leak is tantamount to careerist manipulation and a clear attempt at discrediting all those involved preemptively. Brilliantly executed by self-defeatist narcissists

by Unity supporter Wed Mar 14, 2007 14:39

Declan Bree is not going to stand. If the premature release of the slate was intended to bounce him, then it's bounced him out rather than in. If it was a genuine cock-up, then it's another example of incompetence on the left that contributes to us not being taken seriously.

Apparently Gino Kenny has been added as a People Before Profit candidate now. Was this discussed with the other groups putting together the slate, or is any SWP candidate fair game?

The net result is that Healy and Collins are now isolated in an SWP slate. (Catherine Connolly - a recent convert to anti-coalitionism, if at all - is neither here nor there, frankly.) Their only salvation now is to get while the getting is good. They should say publicly, in the next week or so, that they won't be participating in this slate. They can, and should call for as much co-operation as possible in the elections between genuine credible left candidates. That would include not standing against each other in the same constituency, of course. It would also include candidates who didn't like the look of this slate before now.

The Divided United Left Slate is dead. Long live genuine left co-operation!

by red - . Mon Mar 12, 2007 23:55

the sp and lp and sf have been campaigning since october november, posters are printed etc, we are more than half way into the campaign. any slate would have had to have been organised months ago?

by Burgess Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:45

I agree, have heard else where that it was not agreed at any rate and that the arguments for its cohesiveness where a little on the tenuous side. There would have been broad agreement on some issues and damn right hostility on others. Not a solid bed rock for any alliance in anyone’s book. I have heard several opinions that cite the SWP as instigators and the biggest benefactors of such an alliance which I would tend to agree with.

Joan Collins is a good candidate in DSC and is in with a decent chance of a good turn-out. Brid Smith is running in the same constituency though. Surely this is at odds with the idea of an alliance? Brid has been at the fore front of the bin tax campaign in Ballyfermot and is respected locally, but I don’t think she would have the numbers of Collins (1000+ last time out at the locals). In that regard it would be logical for Brid to step aside. Will that happen?

Healy will almost certainly be returned in Tipp and at the moment is the one who lends real substance to the alliance and would be considered the big draw for the SWP.

Bree won’t get elected. I don’t think he is even running. Connolly is very much on the fringe in nearly all recent polls in Galway and has largely been dismissed as a contender in Galway West.

The Workers Party are the Workers Party and the less said about them the better.

All in all, without the SP or the ISN involved they cannot even call themselves a true left alliance.

It’s a shame because politics in this country badly need it. But there are still way to many differences to overcome to give it the stability in would need to give the MS parties a run for their money

by Danny Cricket Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:28

I readily concede, Cricketer, that this isn't the most fascinating subject in the world. The electoral outings of groups like the SWP or the Workers Party don't register on most people's radar. Even Healy and the three councillors, figures with a bit more significance, aren't exactly household names outside of their own constituencies. Heat magazine isn't exactly pounding on their doors for exclusive interviews.

On the small scale of Ireland's left though, this is of some interest. If it wasn't there wouldn't be 66 responses already. Members of some of the groups involved wouldn't have gone onto the editorial list trying to get the article removed either if nobody cared. There aren't so many people on the left that an anouncement of a possible electoral alliance between two of its larger grouplets, a TD and a few councillors would hold no interest for us.

In fact, Cricketer, it looks to me like your response is less than honest. It isn't that you find the idea of a slate boring beyond comprehension. It's that you find the leaking of this information into the public domain embarrassing.

Factributor puts forward a plausible reason, arguing that there is no slate, that there are however negotations for a slate and that this coming to premature public attention endangers the possibility of a slate being agreed. The problem is that this has now come to wider attention. It's on this site. It's also on politics.ie, a site frequented by numerous Labour Party activists. The cat can't be jammed back in the bag, so you might as well be honest with us.

by Dub Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:25

It cannot be said there is no slate due to this thread! Yes, it was leaked. Yes, it was still an internal document. But the reason for no slate is likely to be due to political differences. Bree, Collins, Connolly, Healy, SWP, WP may all be on the left, but all disagree on many things. For example doing coalition deals/arrangements. Not to mention workers' wage, accountability, political demands. So, the reason for any failure of the slate is political, it's not because of it being leaked. I don't agree with some on this thread, SWP and others are fully entitled to request it be taken down (although this was never going to happen due to Indymedia rules.) I don't think it's some kind of cover-up if a person does not want sensitive documents online!

by Factributor Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:04

Simple fact: there is no slate. What happened was a number of discussions between the groups and individuals mentioned (with the SP, WCA, ISN excluded). These discussions dragged on inconclusively until recently. Then a well known Dublin far-left trade unionist mistakenly sent the draft document/statement to Andy Newman of the Socialist Unity Network (England) who put it on the SUN website as a statement and back it came to indymedia as an established fact.

Meanwhile everyone involved panicked since there was no done deal, especially the SWP, who want this more than any other group (hence Dave Lordans frantic efforts to have the story pulled off indymedia) . Now Healy, Bree, Connolly and the WP are having second thoughts because they really had doubts to begin with about associating publicly with the SWP. No slate now and possibly no slate for this election. Another fine mess!

by Cricketer Mon Mar 12, 2007 18:28

I think its all gone "ominously quiet" because the topic is boring and no one is really interested in it. Or maybe they have all gone out into the real world to engage with human beings. Its an interesting experience. you should try it.

by Danny Cricket Mon Mar 12, 2007 14:18

It's all gone ominously quiet.

To fill in details a bit, Marxism 2007 was on last weekend. About 140 there and not much of great interest despite a higher caliber of invited speakers this year. The SWP honchos were gung ho for the electoral slate. They weren't talking any details, but they were practically frothing at the possibility.

Any chance someone will answer some of Pancho's questions?

by Dub Sun Mar 11, 2007 15:36

In PRSTV the number of candidates a party/slate/pact runs is very important. If the vote can be 'managed' well then a party can pick up transfers from others and generally increase their vote over a number of counts. However in the Collins/Smith case there is no chance of 2 seats. Not even an outside chance of 2 seats. What will happen is not the attraction of transfers to a Collins/Smith pact but a loss of votes. There will be 2 seperate campaign teams. Both teams will be double leafletting and double canvassing. When the votes do come in, Smith will not be in the count long enough to attract many transfers. When she is elimated a significant number of transfers will be leaked to candidates other than Collins. If left unity was genuine from the SWP they would stand aside and allow a sitting Councillor who has an outside chance of a seat be the single candidate with a (larger) united campaign team. this proposed pact really shows up the crocodile tears the SWP shed over their "left unity". Anyway the SWP will not really be demanding many common committments such as anti-coalitionism (which Bree and Connolly would oppose).

by Sancho Panzer Sun Mar 11, 2007 15:12

No reasonable strategist would run both Collins and Smith as a way of optimising the vote. It would be much more sensible to have Smith (who received a third of Collins' vote in the locals) endorse and canvass heavily for Collins.

The two are running for relatively simple reasons, and I strongly doubt if it is related to personal ambition on Smith's part. Collins has an outside chance of a seat. Fighting for that seat is central to her political project. Smith on the other hand may be a no-hoper in terms of winning a seat, but she is one of only two vaguely credible candidates the SWP can muster. To be blunt, the SWP need to stand Smith. They've been working away in Ballyfermot for some years now, work which they would be throwing away if they dropped her candidacy. Further they already have a credibility problem in electoral discussions with other left forces. Without Smith all they bring to the table is the possibility of a respectable vote in Dun Laoghaire and as many embarrassing drubbings as they can muster candidates elsewhere.

So the circumstances are straightforward. The SWP have to stand Smith regardless of its impact on the left generally. The idea of a transfer pact is a way of limiting the damage from this inevitablity rather than some tactical masterstroke.

It is also worth noting as someone does above, that the Workers Party have a recent history of standing in this area too. It is one thing to ask them to stand aside for a candidate who might have an outside shot of a seat. It is quite another to ask them to stand aside when other components of the same supposed slate won't do so. This though might not be relevant as we don't yet have particularly convincing evidence that the Workers Party are seriously considering this kind of joint election slate.

Which brings me to my wider questions: What are the chances of this slate going ahead? Are the likes of Bree or the Workers Party involved? Why does there seem to be no mention at all of the Socialist Party or for that matter of the Irish Socialist Network, which is standing a candidate and which was itself talking about left alliances recently? Is this an attempt to sew up a deal behind the backs of these forces and then to "bounce" them into accepting a slate and a political platform which they took no part in drafting?

There are members of the SWP and CIL reading this thread. There are Workers Party members and people connected to Bree knocking around Indymedia. Yet the only responses those of us interested in this project get are demands that the whole thread be taken down. Why not try engaging with this discussion?

by Unity supporter Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:19

Having several candidates with a transfer pact is fine if you have a big potential vote - as in the way SF managed their vote in W Belfast, etc. If there's a chance of 2 quotas, or nearly 2, then you try running 2 candidates to pick them up. But there is a small vote for socialists in this constituency (or any other, let's face it), and that vote needs to be concentrated on one candidate if it's to be maximised.

If we had a proper left unity slate - and I wish to God we did - then one of these candidates would step aside, or contest another constituency, for the sake of unity. As Collins has won a Corporation seat there, it would be logical for Smith to go elsewhere. However, if people are too busy jealously guarding ther own political bailiwicks, then left unity is not the name of the game.

If there's nothing wrong with having 2 candidates in one constituency, why is Joan Collins the only person on this slate whose name is not followed by the constituency she's standing in? I can only assume because the media would immediately raise the farcical situation (and I'm sorry, but it is farcical) of 'united' candidates standing against each other.

by Roger Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:08

There's likely to be a couple of WP candidates in that constituency as well. That will make four candidates in that alliance. Farce indeed!

by Another better informed unity supporter Fri Mar 09, 2007 22:33

Collins and Smith have a votring pact. One is strong in one end of the constituency and has no base in the other, the reverse is true of the other candidate. Whoever is eliminated first is going to transfer heavily to the remaining one. They are perfectly good terms and have amicably agreed this arrangement. That's what building real unity is about rather than your maliciously pretending they are running against each other. I wonder what your real agenda is!!!

by Unity supporter Fri Mar 09, 2007 19:56

Firstly, I agree we should get away from Bree and McManus, and back to the slate itself.

Although this is fairly well hidden in the press release, what is being announced here is not a united slate. Two of the candidates (Collins and Smith) are standing AGAINST each other in the same constituency, Dublin South Central. (That's why no constituency name follows Collins's name, I presume.)

Left unity at the election would be a great step forward. But the people on this list - even those who have actually agreed to go on it - can't even agree a united candidate for one constituency! Left unity, how are ya! What will they say to left-wing voters there: vote for left unity, but we can't make up our minds which united candidate you should give your Number 1 to?

It pains me to say it, but the whole thing has the air of farce about it.

by Reality Check Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:00

Intentionally missing the point Ray?

The Connolly Forum has been dismissed as a "toothless talkshop".
Bree's "high brow internationalist 'safe' struggles" already described as a source of annoyance for ordinary people with bread and butter issues.

On the ground in Sligo I would admit Sean is a tireless worker for his constituents the difference is he doesn't trumpet himself as the ultimate champion of the working class in the same manner as Bree does. This is why Brees city base has deserted him and transfered in droves to Sinn Fein.

Anti-Establishment BTW does not include Mayorships or membership of Mainstream Political Parties like Labour and Sinn Fein.

In any case, the question was, how does their VOTING RECORD square with Socialism? That is what really counts. People like Collins, Healy and Smith are in my view real socialists in that they went out on the march on REAL isssues that effect ordinary working class people.

Bree and MacManus are the most Left-wing Cllrs on Sligo Council, that is plain for anyone to see. But they are not Socialists.

Everyone knows this.

by Ray Fri Mar 09, 2007 09:27

It's been a few years since I lived in Sligo but I from the time I was there listening to both SF Cllrs including arthur Gibbons, Sean McManus and his son and Declan Bree over the years on local radio or in the the local press I can tell you that their tone and outlook was consistently socialist, the sort of language you only hear from Joe higgins these days.

I had a quick look on indymedia of events in Sligo over the past year, Take a look at these links from indymedia and I know SF have had similar events with equally large local turnouts. If these arn't socialists who is?

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75735

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75600

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75189

by Reality Check Fri Mar 09, 2007 09:04

I'm sorry Ray but I cant let your post go unchallenged.

Neither Bree nor MacManus are Socialists. Just read the thread again and read what has been written about these two then square their records with Socialism.

Leftys contribution alone amply demonstrates this

"For the record,Seans sold his socialist soul when he went into partnership with Fianna Fail to get him self elected Mayor of Sligo for the first time.Together with his Sinn Fein collegues he abstained and allowed service charges to be introduced in Sligo for the first time.The following year he supported their increase by over 30%"

P Mc Cabe wrote this of Bree

"This guy voted for water charges in Dublin, right-wing taoisigh (twice), was IN GOVERNMENT with FG and FF, voted for tax amnesties for the rich and is STILL in an electoral pact with FF something he spent years attacking SF about. He is STILL in Labour."

I agree those on the left (an in this case very much just left of centre) should not be attacking each other but dishonest drivel just makes for humuorous reading Ray. In light of this I dont think anyone will take your sycophantic rant seriously unless they have a very warped sense of anti-establishment Socialism.

by Mike Thu Mar 08, 2007 22:25

Fair play to all involved, secterian politics aside, if Labour can form coalition with FG why can't those on the lft form a platform?

We've been divided for too long. It's worth an attempt

If the SP, SF and other INDs could be brought on board, the LP could be outflanked.

by Ray Thu Mar 08, 2007 22:02

Bree's and McManus vote combined wouldn't get a seat in Sligo and that's a shame. It's three seater now.... Both are steady left wing public reps, it would be hard to identify many public reps around the country that are more to the left. both in their 50's and were involved in politics since the 1960s, Bree has been a Cllr. for nearly 35 yrs and McManus 9yrs. Both would be traditionally described as anti-establisment, both historically millitant, one a republican the other a communist/republican, sure Bree was locked up in MountJoy in the 1990's for protesting against extradition.

It seems that they've had their day and their organisation are running out of steam, if you can't sustain a Dail seat in a constituency and achieve that level of achivement supporters and voters get fustrated.

If SF and Cllr, Bree's supporters in Sligo could join in this new left alliance hopefully it coud lead to a plantform for the next locals that could deliver positive results for the left in sligo. Both organisation have a lot of experience and networks throughout te constituency wich would be lost ofr good if both were to dissapear from politics. Leaving teh northwest to FF & FG. Bree was the first socialist elected to the Dail for Sligo/Leitrim, second in Connacht, we don't want to wait another 70yrs again?

by Clare G Thu Mar 08, 2007 21:55

How did this descend into a squabble between Sean MacManus and Declan Bree?

Sinn Fein aren't even involved with the New Left Alliance.

As is stands and has been posted, this is a discussion document. Cllr Bree may not have even agreed to participate. In fact judging by what his supporters are saying here he is not even running in the General Election so his involvement would be in an advisory capacity only.

But on that note Cllr MacManus' track record should not be up for scrutiny in this regard. It is outside any considerations this amalgamation will be discussing.

by Lefty Thu Mar 08, 2007 20:32

I could care less wheather Bree runs or not.My earlier post stated that Sean McManus has little chance of winning a seat even if Bree doesent run.Bree has no chance and knows it,thats why he will not run.For the record,Seans sold his socialist soul when he went into partnership with Fianna Fail to get him self elected Mayor of Sligo for the first time.Together with his Sinn Fein collegues he abstained and allowed service charges to be introduced in Sligo for the first time.The following year he supported their increase by over 30%.Why dont you ask him and get your facts right before wasting peoples time with your ill informed,unresearched clap trap.He also choose to welcome Mayor Bloomberg to Sligo and turned his back on the Anti war movements protest in Ballymote.He was more interested in keeping Bloomberg sweet after all hes marching in the St.Paddys Day Parade in New York....You cant go pissing off Bloomberg when you have all that fundraising to do!!Thats a fact too.Sean McManus is a hypocrite like most of the politicians in this country.His record speaks for itself!!Go and ask him....

by P Mc Cabe Thu Mar 08, 2007 18:47

Sean has much more of a chance than Bree at getting in. He is by far the more popular candidate in Sligo City and even with the change to the boundary will poll well amongst loyal voters in North Leitrim local issues aside.

Sinn Fein pulled 5 out of the bag in West Belfast, if Bree stands aside they can get Sligo/North Leitrim. Especially as they will be bolstered by their electoral success in the north.

Anyone who thinks that bree should run because Sean hasn't a chance is missing the point and playing into Brees ego.

Bree should stand down, not make outrageous allegations that Sinn Fein supported service charges in Sligo.

by Lefty Thu Mar 08, 2007 18:16

Sean McManus and Sinn Fein have little or no chance of winning a seat whether Bree runs or not.Their vote at local elections has been more or less static for the last two local elections and their appeal in this constituency has taken a dive since they supported waste privatisation and increased service charges in Sligo town.The antics of councillor Colreavy in supporting developers and ripping off the people of Manorhamilton in the the car park debacle wont help their chances in North Leitrim either.They need new blood and some new faces if their going to make any progress in Sligo/North Leitrim.Sean and Chris should consider their positions after this election.Its time to pass the baton on.

by P Mc Cabe Thu Mar 08, 2007 17:48

I trust Declan Bree will do the principled thing now and not stand for the General Election and bite the bullet until next time around. This will maximise Sean McManus' chance of a seat and will give the region a left-wing voice in the Dail.

In the meantime maybe this Left Slate could work with SF on the innumerate issues that they would have common ground on. It could then present a genuine alternative to FF/FG for Government to the people of Ireland and one with much more credibility.

Posters on this thread have already predicted Bree will not stand to avoid humiliation at the poll. I hope he would do it as a matter of conscience as well.

by Marlboro man Thu Mar 08, 2007 17:27

Your good friend must have an incredibly dedicated soul to turn away from a campaign cause she dislikes the chair.

Editors note: abuse removed. Please respect the editorial guidelines

by bitumen Thu Mar 08, 2007 16:43

I can attest to that. A good friend of mine wouldn't have anything to do with the campaign tp free the rossport five simply because RBB chaired the public meeting she attended (in his usual self congratulatory way) when they were jailed.

by Marlboro man Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:35

But do we just give up?

I've heard the accusation of electoral opportunism here and elsewhere and that well may be the case. And as bad a taste as that leaves in my mouth there are some people on this alliance really worth voting for, Collins and Healy to name two.
I have always argued for an alliance of the left from TD's to single issue independents.

Perhaps it’s too late for this election. Perhaps there is a generation of embedded politicians and activists AND opportunists who need to go and clear the way for fresh thinking. But this stagnancy will never be addressed by constantly drumming up what divides the left rather than what unites us.
There are members of the WP for example who don’t know who Harris is (sound of me spitting) There are members of the SWP who have not read Marx (not saying that’s a good thing) etc etc.

The big worry here is the distinct absence of the SP. People like Joe have real resonance with the people and would be of enormous help to this. It’s people like RBB that turn people off on a large scale.

Editors note: abuse removed. Please respect the editorial guidelines

by JP Blue Man Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:06

"......but if these guys stick to their guns, and earn the respest of the working class then they could seriously contend as a real alternative."

See there in lies the problem. Just as one swallow doesn't make a summer nor does one electoral pact signify a real alternative. It's easy to come around a couple of headline points but what work is being done to extend solidarity after the election. Has Bree changed? Have the SWP changed? Does Connolly see this as an opportunity to increase her profile and thus garner a few more votes. And as for the WP sticking to their guns well that doesn't deserve further comment.
This all strikes me as just being electoral opportunism.

by Marlboro man Thu Mar 08, 2007 09:43

This is getting nowhere. there is no point in the left attacking each other as this plays right into the hands of the right.

The whole idea is to promote a New Left Alliance not just a collection of names with the same old gripes.

I have problems with some of the people involved not to mention the SWP, but if these guys stick to their guns, and earn the respest of the working class then they could seriously contend as a real alternative. Its seems some people are intent on keeping the old riffs alive and destroying this initiative before its begun.

by P Mc Cabe Thu Mar 08, 2007 09:33

Next you'll be calling for his beatification. And you’re now saying SF are doing nothing about S2S? Deary me, how long are those blinkers.

The Connolly forum is a toothless talk shop. Brees days of militant activism are well behind him. Bree doesn’t have a gang, his support in Sligo is wore thin, its about time he realised that. Maybe that’s really why he’s not running?

Sligo should be a hot bed for the left, opportunists like bree have presided over the its demise and for all his so-called 'activism' has achieved fuck all.

Whiles hes sitting in the Silver Swan with his handful of muppets writing letters of support to Chavez and Castro he ignores the real issues on the ground and on his door step. Where 'The Former Mayor' (I love that one) should be making a difference.

This guy voted for water charges in Dublin, right-wing taoisigh (twice), was IN GOVERNMENT with FG and FF, voted for tax amnesties for the rich and is STILL in an electoral pact with FF something he spent years attacking SF about. He is STILL in Labour.

Sinn Fein have taken his base because people on the ground in Sligo know not to trust him and that he is full of hot air. The are fed up with his high brow internationalist 'safe' struggles while he abandoned the working class who elected him. What’s left of his dwindling support are even copping on that the sun doesn’t shine out of his arse. He hasn't the numbers he used to which makes for feeble and ineffective 'activism' in any case which probably explains why he’s not on the march week in week out IN Sligo.

I'm afraid Declan is living on former glories

by John Thu Mar 08, 2007 07:59

I havn't seen much SF activism in Sligo, any environmental, anti-war, rossport events have been organised by the LP or Bree's new Connolly group. SF refused to boycott and picket the visit of NY Mayor Bloomberg last year when Bree and the IPSC did all the running. Cllr. Bree and his connoly gang seem to be in Rossport/Erris every second week, havn't heard of an SF members from Sligo giving them support.

by Pat Thu Mar 08, 2007 00:34

"I'd like to see RBB elected coz he's gotta be better than a green or Labour Party type, but he wouldn't be a Joe Higgins if elected."

If you're in the constituency where Rich Boy is standing then you have the chance to vote for a genuine socialist (one who isn't afrad to talk about it - in fact it has been known to be hard to shut him up about it!) : http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80204

by P Mc Cabe Thu Mar 08, 2007 00:01

"Most left wing activism in the constituency now centers around the Connolly Forum, a splinter group of ex-labour members and Bree supporters......"

Are Sinn Fein no longer Left wing Ray? I’m sure Sean would have something to say about that.

It’s this type of narcissist self-promoting yodeling that puts me off Bree. You're idea of principled Leftism is not universal it would seem, I don’t consider electoral pacts with FF very principled. Nor did he very nearly get elected in 97, he was punished for selling out those same bloody principles as a TD. Anybody who knows anything about the politics of the region knows this.

This Bree/McGarry feud is starting to taint the facts.

by anon Wed Mar 07, 2007 23:47

Seamus Healy is involved with Joan Collins in the Campaign for an Independent Left. He has NO connection with PbP.

by Ex files Wed Mar 07, 2007 23:44

McKenna is ex-lab and Healy is independant and involved with the Workers' and Unemployed Action Group.
Both are involved with PBP so its an easy mistake to make.

by Ray Wed Mar 07, 2007 23:42

I really doubt if cllr. declan bree will run, the constitunency has been reduced to a 3 seater which means there is little chance of a small party gaining a seat. Although if he did run as an independant he could pick up some of Marian Harkins MEP/TD votes, however the fact that she didn't run gives an idea how hard it would be for anybody outside FF & FG to get elected.

Bree's hardline/principled & anti-development stance in Sligo has ruinied his support in middle class areas, he was very unlucky not to get relected in '97, after that defeat FF, SF and Harkin strenghened their support in Sligo Town, the base of Bree's support.

He should have left the Labour Party when the ex FG Councillor was recruited by Pat Rabbitte and esspecially when labour HQ tried to throw him out for his support of Traveller housing in sligo.

Why has he remained while other prominant Labour members have left? Three local election candidates and a former Councillor, as well as the entire party in Co. Leitrim and much of the membership in Bree's hearthland have deserted!

Most left wing activism in the constituency now centers around the Connolly Forum, a splinter group of ex-labour members and Bree supporters......

http://www.indymedia.ie/openwire?search_text=connolly+forum

by David - LY Wed Mar 07, 2007 23:32

Didn't realise that Carmel McKenna and Seamus Healy were SWP members. Are you sure of this?

The slate is a very interesting development, particularly after many previous failed attempts to get something similar going. However, it's a great shame that this was leaked, and I fail to see how so doing is in the SWP's interest, which is why the leak must come from elsewhere.

The likely result of the leak is that it will put enormous pressure on the others mentioned above to agree a position before they've had the opportunity to discuss this fully with their own supporters ... with the result that the entire project could fail. There are plenty of reasons to criticise the SWP or indeed any other political organisation in the country. But to try and jeopardise the beginnings of a left alliance is truly petty. Hopefully the proposed slate members can rise above this nonsense and continue working on their project. All the better if they can convince the Socialist Party to get involved.

by anon Wed Mar 07, 2007 23:23

Is Carmel McKenna now a member of the SWP?

That means that all four PbP candidates are SWP members.

by people before politics - No Bullshit alliance Wed Mar 07, 2007 22:55

This New Left Alliance has been called for by the SWP and is nothing new.

http://www.swp.ie/html/newleft.htm

It stemmed from the PBP Alliance (which is heavily represented by SWP people) and was to be modeled on Similar alliances on Mainland Europe and the RESPECT movement in Britain.

The list of individuals involved in this New Lwft Alliance are very easy to link in that Seamus Healy TD Brid Smith Richard Boyd Barrett and Carmel McKenna are all members of the SWP.

Cllr Joan Collins and Cllr Catherine Connolly where guest peakers at The People Before Profit Alliance/Davitt League public conference on Friday November 24th and Saturday November 25th in Dublin.

http://people-before-profit.org/ThePeopleBeforeProfitAllianceconference.doc

Chief amongst the aims of this conference was the creation of alternatives to establishment political parties with a plenary session solely dedicated to People Before Profit: Time for a new left alternative
Cllr Declan Bree is closely associated to Connolly as she is his sister-in-law.
The only anomaly is the association of the WP.
SWP would need them more than the other way round.

In any event, leak or no leak, this comes as no surprise to anyone with their ear to the ground and paying attention.

by John Wed Mar 07, 2007 22:11

I remember hearing before christmas a number of left wing groups being contacted by the the people before profit to try and form a platform for the next GE. There was an alternative left conference on the issue which included the above and members of the rossport five and labour youth.

It is mearly a wish list, i'm sure the teh public reps and groups mentioned above are aware of the motive behind this leek.

by Reality Check Wed Mar 07, 2007 21:28

"The timing of the announcement is irrelevant. Seriously who will it impact on?"

Well Bree for one. It is well known he is due to announce as an independant in the coming GE.
The publicity of the announcement of a Left Alliance in which he is a part of has now been diluted. How an Ex-commie can get on a platform with the SWP and especially the WP shows how desperate the man is. His sell out of his core beliefs is now complete. Possibly fuelled by the realisation that with all Brees personal attacks on McGarry locally it would destroy Bree if he where to poll less than Wee Jimmy.

Taking the fanfare out of this announcement and having it trickle out into the public arena will not have the desired effect of creating a wave of publicity that would could have boosted his figures.

Off the back of this I would be very surprised if Declan Bree where to run now. He has no ace up his sleeve and a poor showing in the GE would finish him.

by anon Wed Mar 07, 2007 21:27

could also be a cute way of strong-arming people into an alliance that they were only vaguely considering. Make it public so that those named are forced to publicly explain/defend their non-involvement, thus making it more likely that rather than have to "defend" their lack of engagement they just say "to heck with it, I'll sign up."

by John Lennon - Beatles Wed Mar 07, 2007 21:18

(For those of you who were asleep in Latin class, "cui bono?" means "who benefits?")

Who benefits from this statement being leaked here, there and everywhere? Bree hasn't made up his mind yet. The Workers Party obviously haven't had any input into the thing. Seamus Healy has never hidden the fact that he hates the SWP.

However... if I was in the SWP... and I wanted a broad slate to make my party's candidates look more impressive... and other potential members of that slate were negative or unsure or dragging their heels... how could I get things moving? Accidentally on purpose leak the draft statement! Or make sure it gets to some people without the health warning that it was to be kept under wraps. Better still, apologise when it happens, and make a ludicrous demand that Indymedia put the cat back into the bag...

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but does anyone have a better explanation? You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

by Marlboro man Wed Mar 07, 2007 20:06

Collins and Healy are solid principled socialists and have proved it with their tireless work on the ground in Tipp and Ballyfermot. I could however see them being swallowed by the SWP though especially if it tries to take over this alliance (which is by no means unreasonable to assume)

I have read Connollys rupture with Labour and would be dubious of her credentials. She seems to tack her colours to the most favourable mast and a female friend of mine in galway is horrified by her gender card politics.

Bree was a TD and lost touch with his base I believe. I have read some threads here about him and the ferocity of his attacks on those who disagree with him is disturbing. Certainly doesnt endear me to him, but he might just be very passionate in his beliefs.

The SWP and the WP for that matter are not parties I would easily lend support to and where will the Socialism come from?. Far too much baggage and genuine hatred exists on the ground for these two to work together in a constructive way. A lot of egos in this mix, a lot of miles in and rigid dogma to boot. As much separates this lot as unites them. Perhaps too much distractionary effort will be required to glue them together at the detriment of any genuine inroads into tackilng the injustices of our society

by Dub Wed Mar 07, 2007 19:43

I would probably judge each on a case by case basis. I would not go near Bree and Connolly or Workers Party as they have done rotten deals with right wing parties in the past. I'd vote for the others realising that SWP/Collins/Healy are no Joe Higgins or Clare Dalys but better than the rotten crew that usually paint themselves as lefties.

by anon Wed Mar 07, 2007 19:27

Boyd Barrett was on Vincent Browne last night and was less than inspiring. Gas and water socialism is what James Connolly used to call the sort of stuff he was on about - except there was no mention of socialism other than when Browne raised it. Not very promising. I'd like to see RBB elected coz he's gotta be better than a green or Labour Party type, but he wouldn't be a Joe Higgins if elected.

by Marlboro man Wed Mar 07, 2007 19:23

There is absolutely no point in attacking Indymedia for this. This is news, extremely interesting news and sure to generate huge debate amongst the left. It would be a dereliction of gross magnitude for Indymedia not cover this. There is a thread over on P.ie already where the merits of this undertaking are being discussed at length.

The individuals involved are being discussed, the wisdom of the move in the first place, its possible impact on the political scene, the reaction of the centre and right, the implications for SF and the SP.

Most startling is the SWP and SP working together and Trots and Stalinists in the same camp. Some have doomed this to failure others have called some involved opportunists others deluded.

The timing of the announcement is irrelevant. Seriously who will it impact on? Not to mention it was posted in Indy UK as well.

This deserves the attention of everyone on the left, supporters and dissenters. It might just inject an urgency into left wing politics that have been thus far sadly lacking.

by Dub Wed Mar 07, 2007 19:10

What they demand is very important. Will there be mention of socialism? What campaigns will they be calling for? What is this slate's alternative to Health crisis, Traffic Crisis, and Planning Crisis? This is what I am interested in. I think that the non-inclusion of the ISN and SP indicates that they will not be calling for nationalisation or anything in the direction of socialism. From what I can see this Slate looks very tired. I mean this in the sense that the people involved are either in SWP or WP or are has-beens from other parties. The Workers' Party are a pale shadow of their former selves. The only half decent people are Collins and Healy. Bree was a former pro-FG pro-FF TD in the 1990s. Will he be doing coalition deals if elected? Connolly is a disgruntled Labour type who has done coalition deals on local authorities. What is this slate's position on coalition/deals? While some will be opposed to it, will it be a pre-condition for inclusion in this slate? No mention of Catherine Murphy, Joe Higgins or Clare Daly who all have a reasonable chance of being TDs in the 30th Dáil.

by DM Wed Mar 07, 2007 18:34

Look at the constituencies
Wicklow
Dublin South Central
Dublin South East
Dun Laoghaire!!!!!!!!!!
Galway West
These are all batlle ground constituencies, there's really just not enough room in these places for these people. This is going to be a tough election and these candidates won't make it.

by Indo Wed Mar 07, 2007 17:01

Why was it sent to the Trade Unionist? Why did he think it was a press release?
I would suggest that Brendan Young and anon-'democrat' should not come on here crying foul. Instead they should use their energies in finding out which person/group fucked up, the behind the scenes wheeling and dealings. Once it went on the Socialist Unity blog it was likely to end up on Indymedia and then irishpolitics.ie. The crying over spilt milk only makes your 'project' look amateurish.

by R. Isible Wed Mar 07, 2007 16:34

The information is already out there. The main take away point for most people now will be the attempt of the SWP to cover this up.

by Chekov - 1 of indymedia.ie Wed Mar 07, 2007 16:23

"the least you could do is respect the attempts of those trying to create some positive developments and take it down but your own internal bitterness is blinding you"

We don't suppress information on behalf of any particular political project or organisation, no matter what we think about it. Your accusation of bitterness illustrates a poor understanding of what we're about. If it was about anarchists, republicans or anybody else, our attitude would be exactly the same. There are no precedents of us suppressing newsworthy information in pursuit of a political goal - I challenge you to contradict this.

What's more, once something like this is leaked on the internet, there's really no way of recalling it - it was up on politics.ie almost as soon as it came out and I'm sure it's being discussed elsewhere. In such an environment, attempts to suppress it are counter-productive as they simply feed the conspiracy theorists.

by UTS Wed Mar 07, 2007 16:18

The WP have a small base in Waterford with two councillors and that is why the SWP no doubt want them in on this. Although knowing the WP they probably won't join an alliance with the SWP/SP/ etc!

by 80/20 Wed Mar 07, 2007 16:02

The peer review of the comments clears up quite coherently any doubt that people might have about the status of the document, so no one would believe that it's a press release.

Why should the document be removed? Would any other publication remove a document like this if it was leaked to them?

by anon - democratic Wed Mar 07, 2007 15:54

Indymedia are a disgrace. It has been clearly stated that this statement was not supposed to be released and you have been asked to take it down. The fact that you have left it up shows you really dont care about attempts to build left unity and would prefer to see it fall apart before it begins.
the least you could do is respect the attempts of those trying to create some positive developments and take it down but your own internal bitterness is blinding you
Shame on you

by Pushkin Wed Mar 07, 2007 13:04

"If anybody has already downloaded copies, can they please refrain from further public circulation - which can only serve to disrupt the project."

If the initiative is open and democrative then I fail to see how publicity could harm it in any way. But if its a backroom deal being negotiated by LEADERS then it certainly should be outed.

Either the CIL stand for open Democratic Socialism or it doesn't. I expect no better from the SWP/PBPA or WP, but I thought the CIL were different.

by andy newman - socialist unity blog Wed Mar 07, 2007 08:32

Comrades

I wish to apologise for publishing what I believed to be a press release from the Independent Irish left, on the Socialist Unity Blog, whereas it was in fact a draft document in circulation that had not been agreed by all the parties involved.

This document had been sent to me in good faith by an Irish trade unionist who also believed it was a press release. I understand that he has made his identity known to the Independent Irish Left, however in the journalistic tradition of protecting my sources I cannot comment further on that aspect of this issue.

I understand that the statement I published included details of some individuals who may not yet have formally agreed to sign up to the Independent Irish left, and therefore the premature publication may cause some embarassment and even comromise the project. That was certainly never my intenion, which had been quite the opposite to publicise what I regard as good practice on the left of working together.

Regretably, my action in taking the statement down may be too late, because it has now been reproduced on Indymedia Ireland. However I hope that not too much mischief will be made.

Finally thank you to the Irish comrades who promptly brought the error to my attention, and I am pleased that they have started from the correct assumption that I was acting in good faith.

I wish the Independent Left Alliance, and all socialists in Ireland the greatest success.

by Brendan Young - CIL Wed Mar 07, 2007 01:01 youngbren at eircom dot net

This is to confirm that the draft press release and the draft platform document for a proposed Independent Left Alliance are, as Leak Spotter-Left Unity has said, discussion documents that have yet to be agreed by the parties involved. I do not know how they have come into the public domain. I also request that they be taken down. If anybody has already downloaded copies, can they please refrain from further public circulation - which can only serve to disrupt the project.

by 80/20 Wed Mar 07, 2007 00:42

I think the question mark in the title indicates that it is a speculative piece, perhaps the result of a leak.

No other publication would censor a story like this, just because it hadn't been passed by the SWP politburo.

by Sceptic Tue Mar 06, 2007 23:26

The mystery can be solved simply by one of the above mentioned groups either confirming it or denying it.

by Guesser Tue Mar 06, 2007 22:51

I doubt somehow that it is d) because it is hardly likely that Andy Newman a Socialist Unity candidate in Swindon would just pull this out of the air.

by anon Tue Mar 06, 2007 22:46

It's either (a) a legit press release; (b) a pre-emptively released statement; (c) a leak prior to a statement being formalised; or (d) an incredibly detailed hoax (go to the socialistunity blog for the full thing). My guess is that it's box (b) and that somebody was so excited that they just couldn't hold it in.

by Ken Tue Mar 06, 2007 22:34

I don't see any source for this story?

by analyser Tue Mar 06, 2007 22:22

I don't think you could convince the anti-republican SWP to share an electoral platform with Sinn Féin. They might like to give the impression that they are connected in some way (Bríd Smith still sends folks to Aengus Ó Snodaigh's constituency office for advice and help with medical cards, housing etc), to gain transfers from some voters.

As far as party headquarters in London is concerned though, the PBP Alliance is supposed provide a left-wing alternative to the Shinners. Remember one of the reasons People Before Profits was set up was to stymie SF growth. They even posted their anti-Sinn Féin agenda on indymedia.ie back in 2005 (and then hurriedly asked for it to be removed).

On the other hand, SF weren't born yesterday. No serious politician in their right mind would get involved in any sort of broad front with characters the like of Smith or Rory Hearne.

The Greens are a law and order party (some call them Ogra Fine Gael) who get very nervous around real lefties. They hope that Enda and Pat do well so they'll be called in to make up the numbers, so they'd hardly want to get involved with this stuff.

As for the shadowy cult-like Socialist Party, they hate the Swippers more than is healthy, so it seems highly unlikely that they would want to share a lift, let alone a political platform.

by Ann Smith Tue Mar 06, 2007 21:48

Are the Socialist party, SF or the greens going to be involved in this? Have they been aasked or will they be asked? What is the common criteria for candidates to abide by to run on this slate?

by leak spotter - left unity Tue Mar 06, 2007 21:42

This isn't a press release. It's a draft document currently in circulation among the interested parties for discussion and had has not been agreed. It has been leaked either inadvertently or maliciously and should be removed.

by Galway Tue Mar 06, 2007 21:01

I wonder how committed Connolly is to this venture. She was more than happy to remain in Labour if she had to get the nomination for the GE. She only left ina huff because she didnt get that nomination. Is that the sort of person the left needs? Smacks a bit of opportunism and careerism. Some other good ones there though - especially Seamus Healy - Top man

by Mondo Bizarro Tue Mar 06, 2007 20:40

The two interesting names are those of Catherine Connolly and Declan Bree, if this report is accurate. They, along with the Workers Party, would be the new faces in the lineup.

by Frankie Roberts Tue Mar 06, 2007 20:36

Has Bree announced his candidacy? He hadn't up to now.

by anon Tue Mar 06, 2007 20:31

...but it won't increase the vote of a single one of these candidates. By the by, has People Before Profit taken a democratic national decision in favour of this?