Tragedy Strikes U.S. College Campus

by Condolences Mon Apr 16, 2007 20:24

This is hard for the families and survivors.

RIP

by Zachary Litwiller Mon Apr 16, 2007 20:25 zwlitwiller at gmail dot com

President Bush is to speak at 1615 EST today. Also, on the CNN website (cnn.com) you can view many video uploads, including one taken on a cellphone incredibly close to the actually shootings occurring by an I-Reporter. Also, the death toll is now up to 32.

by Deirdre Clancy - AWI (personal capacity) Mon Apr 16, 2007 22:31

Salon magazine reported the following response from the White House:
'"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said.'

There is an irony there on several counts. Firstly, that the initial response to the biggest institutional shooting in US history is to reiterate the regime's opposition to gun control. Secondly, that 'all laws must be upheld' - we know how much this regime cares about legality when it comes to massacring people.

by Zachary Litwiller Mon Apr 16, 2007 23:36

Latest death count = 33, including the gunman who is reported to have shot himself.

by iosaf mac d .:. Tue Apr 17, 2007 01:55

likewise no quality judgement to be ascribed to a massacre.

No-one can write this is the worst campus shooting in US history & be taken seriously can they? What do they mean? Are campus shootings judged on the number of victims who died, were wounded or the number of families affected, secondary to tertiary victims, right to the outer sheel of victim which I believe might be pictured as a vulnerable person on a sofa without cream for a cold-sore or satisfactory answers for the worst massacres daily seen the same TeeVee news.
Did the CNN copywriter think before writing? Is the gift of communication and craft of words so sullied that this becomes the worse - & the Amish may now leave the grotesque world we mostly watched with the sole purpose of making Michael Moore fat & stopping a Bush re-election? Is that too cynical? Did the omission of statistics and observances the casual mentioning of Dunblane or calls for x-ray machines at our school gates communicate to anyone who bothers tp read our comments : seem cynical???

I'm sorry. I just spend my days saying its all fucked - your and my civilisation and environment are fucked in every sense & as an anarchist at least I have the moral courage to say -
I'm sorry but you've no future.

of course it is Peace every victim from dead to that sofa rest in. Beyond in the famine, disease, poverty and war stricken worlds children carry arms and don't go to school but we won't give them bad examples because they can't afford our TV or our Internet nor can read our news.

All glory to their dreams & their cry of their souls.

it was 33 and 1. this shooter shot himself. 34 dead. That lot in CNN and the would be global complex are so fixated with multiples of "eleven" - has someone got them by the numerology?

by Zachary Litwiller Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:29

By saying that this is the worst shooting to occur in the US simply means that it is the most deadly, with the most victims. This is no way an attempt to say that these victims are any better or deserve more than other victims of other shootings. I am not making a judgment call on that status of the victims, merely that there are more victims in the atrocity than in other similar atrocities that have occurred. They are all tragic, equally, whether one person is killed or 33 (which is the actual death count reported by Virginia lawmakers, including the gunman).

by DM Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:36

Boredom?
Jealousy?
Mental Illness?
Religious fervour?
Academic Rejection?
Racism?
Violent Video Game & Movie Copycat-ism?
Freedom?

Just why did a young man go on a shooting rampage in Virginia on Monday morning, April 16th, 2007, on the university campus of Blacksburg Virginia, killing 33 people and injuring at least a dozen others?

Columbine - Lessons not learned
Lets recall for a moment the April 20th 1999 Columbine massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre) near Denver in Colorado, where teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 13 people and wounded 24 others before taking their own lives. One of the people blamed for this was musician Marliyn Manson. Manson refuted this blame-game by right-wingers during a VH1 interview reminding people that "he cancelled three concerts in memoriam of the tragedy". When asked what he would have said to the victims, he stated,
"I wouldn't have said anything...I would have listened to them, which no one else did".

State violence and Citizen Guidance
There is one important parallel I wish to emphasise here. During Michael Moore's film 'Bowling for Columbine' Manson asserted his awareness that NATO, mainly through the U.S., were engaged in unleashing severe airstrike atrocities in Serbia on that very same day of the school shootings, killing over a dozen completely innocent civilians. As Democracy Now (http://www.democracynow.org/index.pl?issue=19990420 ) reported
"NATO attacks overnight have killed or injured at least 12 people in Serbia's third-largest city. This comes just one day after NATO reluctantly admitted having hit a civilian convoy in Kosovo last week that killed over 70 Kosovar Albanians - NATO had previously said that its planes had accidentally hit a tractor with civilians that was part of a military convoy."
The query posed by the infamous musician was, who has more influence over U.S. society's attitude to violence - Bill Clinton, his gvt., army and war-supporting media or Marliyn Manson?

Yesterday, as the world's media focussed on the most recent tragic school atrocity in the U.S., the Afghan Human Rights Commission reported that 40 civilians were killed indiscriminately by U.S. Forces on March 4th in an area called Mhmand Dara, Afghanistan (http://www.asiantribune.com/index.php?q=node/5345 ). U.S. commander, Maj. Gen. Frank H. Kearney, who ordered the investigation on the civilian killings by Marines, accepted the findings. According to the report by the commission, US Marine Special Forces, who had just escaped an early-morning ambush by Taliban Insurgents in the area, retaliated by opening fire on nearby civilians, including pedestrians and as many as 15 passing cars, including those that had pulled to the side of the road to comply with orders.

No Justice, No Peace
My prediction is that we'll go fairly blue in the face if we hold our breath and await U.S. military personnel or their leaders to be brought to justice for this instance of retalitory murder. As retired U.S. military Sgt. Martin Smith wrote (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/atroci...s.htm) in an article originally published by Counterpunch last August,
"The process of dehumanization is central to military training."
In the U.S., as with many other societies, politicians and church leaders cheerlead the heroism of dehumanised drones in their military, regardless of the atrocities they commit, and never draw any conclusions as to how legimated murder in the name of the State may impact their civilians gung-ho attitude to using violent means in resolving their grudges against individuals or institutions they detest.

Premature Finger-Pointing
That all said, this is obviously a shocking tragedy for the students of Virginia Tech and the families of the victims, and the one who pulled the trigger, though dead, remains directly responsible for the deaths and injuries. Yet I still find it hard to accept that people are surprised such things happen in a country where there is little or no gun control, militarism and violence is glorified from street parades to FOX media reports and the theatre of war itself, to the popularity of pro-war video games and movies, etc. The factors of gun violence in the U.S. and elsewhere are many-fold, and until such time as a better picture is painted of the person who perpetrated the shootings, then it's best not to believe initial reports that 'he looked Asian'. We all remember the initial reports of 'he looked Arab' and 'he had wires hanging from his jacket' about the innocent Brazilian Jean Charles De Menenzes killed by cops in the London Tube when they wrongfully deemed him to be a suicide bomber.

by Iosaf watch Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:47

Zachary Litwiller: don't worry - we know what you meant. Iosaf's specialty is obfuscation and attributing meanings that people didn't actually give. The best approach is not to pay him any mind.

by iosaf Tue Apr 17, 2007 19:04

They did say "the worst shooting". I don't know how. Somehow sorting amish girls from amish boys and shooting them seems worse - the all came from one closed community which has the highest percentage of hereditary diseases and disabilities in the world. They also spoke a different language from the journalists the shooter knew before hand would fly their helicopters in.

I appreciate your shock. I expressed myself quite clearly & consistently & quite possibly spoke for many of us in the 3 comments I left. I even nodded to the legacy of Virginia Woolfe, her insanity -her predictions of an American society riven by violence. But at end those who must learn lessons from this are not be found in Europe or Asia. This is a solely US problem which remains one of the few symptoms of social decay they have not exported. Each and every site of a massacre - be it a school or campus holds extra resonance not for the primary victims who living there forget the significance of their address but for the final shell of victims I referred to in my comments. & it is from those final shells of victims that the perpetrators come. I haven't obfuscated anything. I didn't blame music, or games, or war, or parents or numerology or a wish to drag the media into an Amish village, a Colorado village, get the word Columbine (with its meanings) into global consciousness - or even splatter blood within a short drive of CIA world headquarters. I even said sorry for being an "anarchist html user". It's not your fault or mine Zach. These are symptoms. The recent double shooter massacre in the polytechnic in Montreal almost proved the rule that Canada with similar respect for the right to bear arms does not endure this type of violence. Likewise to the USA's southern border all mexicans still have the right to bear arms. They have not seen a campus or school shooting in their history by a mexican. OR if they did instead of being reported, globalised, and analysed as a "shooting" it was called what it really is - T-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-m.
It is my contention that "reality is broken" for many people who live in the USA - if you want to say they have a "terrorist problem" or a "problem with terrorism" - I'd agree. They do. Please don't think I was attacking you for what your wrote - what your wrote reflected perfectly the US commercially led reaction to this massacre last night. But it does not reflect the record as published in the European commercial press today. We're arguing numbers & symbols & how they can make us "over here" have a really bad day. Many Europeans don't start their history of terrorism with 911 anymore. In the state where I live they begin with three times eleven. Their immediate neighbours to the south have just seen more carnage committed in the same name. They are the outer shells of victims.

Have I made my point? I hope so.

by wisdom Tue Apr 17, 2007 19:17

Without national security numbers - no journalist at a night news desk knows now many victims were supplied - in the land that gave you Bloody Sunday you really ought have learnt that lesson.:.

Cho Seung Hui (Korean Born) 23 years of age : shot 32 people max : had a coldsore.

by - Tue Apr 17, 2007 19:20

there's a war on. you wouldn't understand & don't won't understand how it happens. So don't go blaming anyone or anything. ok? Zach was right. & was Iosaf. Yer man the Korean fits the bill perfectly.
Sure everyone saw it coming. Now think about which reality you can trust. Get your calenders sorted and do your activism. There's loads to do. You're not going to get far stopping terrorism. It's moved on from balaclavas.

by balaclava cop Tue Apr 17, 2007 19:56

His family back in Korea will be so ashamed - it's hardly the photo they wanted on their mantlepiece. He promised to by them a mantlepiece when they said goodbye to him.

The Irish Times oblivious to European trends of course reported 33 dead.

The Guardian in the UK reports :- "A 23-year-old South Korean student carried out at least 30 of the 32 Virginia Tech university murders, US authorities said today. The gunman was identified as 23-year-old Cho Seung-hui, an undergraduate student in his senior year as an English major at the university, in south-west Virginia state. Yesterday's massacre was the worst mass shooting in US history. A note believed to have been written by Cho was found in his dorm room that railed against "rich kids", "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus, the Chicago Tribune"

See? they've forgotten the disabled Amish girls too. We were all so discreet we forgot the family of the deaf and albino little girl shot in front of her sister but only in earshot of her brother. Yes- this is the "worst" because it is the "newest". OR is there some other reason? This man from far far away land carried out at least 30 of the 32 murders. Who got the other 2?

let's read the scraps some more after all this is reality we're reporting and shaping :-

He had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behaviour, a source told the paper, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women. Cho, who had residency status in the US, was living in Harper Residence Hall on the university campus. A 9mm handgun and .22 calibre handgun were recovered from Norris Hall, a campus engineering building in which 30 people died, authorities said. State, local and federal investigators spent the night collecting, processing and analysing evidence from Norris Hall. Ballistic tests on evidence seized from the building and West Ambler Johnston Residence Hall - where the first two shootings took place - were carried out at the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives lab. Procedural reasons have meant police have been reluctant to confirm that Cho was responsible for the first shootings, of a male and female student, as well as the killings at Norris Hall, but revealed that one of the two handguns had been used in both cases. At a press conference, university officials and police read out statements but refused to take questions. They have faced heavy criticism over the failure to block off the campus after the first shooting, cancel classes and alert students to the danger. The university is to be closed for the rest of the week. Earlier, Charles Steger, the Virginia Tech president, defended its handling of the situation amid suggestions security staff could have done more to prevent the Norris Hall shootings. "Our security people at Ambler Johnston Hall thought it looked like a murder suicide or lovers' quarrel, and consequently that events were confined to that place," he told ABC News.
"We closed down that dormitory immediately, closed off the road, surrounded it with security and began talking to witnesses."
Scott Hill, the CEO of two local hospitals treating 12 victims, said the condition of three patients had improved from critical to stable overnight. All 12 were now in a stable condition and had not required overnight surgery, he added.
A memorial service for the victims of the massacre will take place later today. The service will be attended by the US president, George Bush, and his wife, Laura.
The shootings began in West Ambler Johnston when two people were killed at around 7.15am. Some two hours later, Cho opened fire on students and staff at Norris Hall, killing 30 students and staff before turning the gun on himself. The victims were recovered from at least four second-floor classrooms and a stairwell in the building. Police discovered the killer's body among his victims in a classroom.

So there you have it. As you know most US academic institutions have similar internal architecture at least on the scale thing. So you can draw in your white chalk outlines & put that together with your telly pictures and then figure out the shooting positions on the stairwell. You don't have to go far for a few thoughts on the 9mm & a few contributors will happily tell you how much ammo the lad carried in his shooting clips. We've officials too. A privately owned hospital CEO is giving us updates, over 85,000 US students are mobilising cyberspace, and the US alcohol and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives lab is busy doing forensic tests. That's the federal body which grew out of the "untouchables" (you might have seen a movie). They preserved their independence from the FBI (from whom they were initially recruited) and have in the last years really got into the explosive analysis thing. They make a lot of money from cryptospectrum analysis which makes your flight to the USA safer if not cheaper. And both ABC and CNN (the most trusted of the global psychological complexes doing their best to keep us safe from the manipulation of Fox) are keeping us all "well informed" .

If there any Korean reading contributors in the readership perhaps they could keep an eye on South Korean media (north Korean media is a closed shop - they're our enemy at the moment ever since they drugged up Pierce Brosnan in his final 007 movie). Let us know how the death of this young student and the grief of his family are getting on. Fish us out a photo of him as a kid complete with his home address and then we'll go look at it on google earth.

This is the worst thing that has ever happened. Who, When, Why & Where will we see the next worst thing ever done? Will it be the USA? Utah? or will it be Europe? how about Australia? Japan?
Oh I've a headache. I've got to drill a hole in my brain and put cold-sore cream just behind broca's cortex.

by Alex Firenne Tue Apr 17, 2007 22:24

The worst school massacre in U.S history occurred in Michigan in 1927. Andrew Kehoe blew up the school in Bath Township, killing 45. Most of the victims were little children.

by korean whispers Tue Apr 17, 2007 23:16

Those who can read spanish can read at this article http://www.lavoz.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=63311
(nice id number) from the interior newspaper of Argentina how the blog attributed to the South Korean shooter student wasn't in fact his blog. There have been a few coincidences which might have misled many millions of people both in the state of VA and the country. As far as Ireland terror has struck as parents learn how an English student with a cold-sore and bad teeth wasn't the only individual of his very narrow profile to have attracted attention in the past weeks. There has been another person with almost exactly the same name (Wayne Chiang) in almost exactly the same place. With cyber mobilisations of student bodies in theUS react - cyber space seems more than ever to be a camp of battle for the truth.
The Argentinian newspaper includes amongst its other evidence of identity manipulation by both State and Private authorities in the last 24 hours a link to this blog http://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/ which is carrying a "clarification of hoax massacre warning".

Included amongst the dead were several prominent members of the international tech academic community as RTE reported http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0417/virginia.html .
The few Irish citizens at the site are safe - one confirmed an email had warned her to stay in her room.

Yes - this is one of the most interesting campus massacres in US history. Such a mixture of characters, such immediate presence of cyber, such odd reporting of the death figures, such insistence it is the worst. People who do this sort of thing in the USA generally behave in and come from pretty typical profile types. But it is impossible to predict who within those pretty typical profile types will actually do it. We'd have to open up these shooters and do hard scientific research work & found out how they work. The individual who hoaxed might come from the same profile - but this massacre has hopefully served to dissuade him of any attention being paid him in the future. It is time for these shooters to realise no-one is interested in their depraved cries for attention.

by Nasser El Sonbatty Wed Apr 18, 2007 19:38

I find it strangely ironic.
170 people die in car bombs in Baghdad with hundreds more maimed and injure and it gets 30 seconds on the news. Almost a passing comment.
These people die in heartland America and it gets hours of coverage. People who didn't even know them, people who wer not even there were crying and lamenting about how their lives were changed for ever.
And yet these same people are happy to stand behind their armed forces who kill, beat, imprision and committ human rights crimes in other countries.
I didn't see CNN or the BBC spending much time interviewing the people in Baghdad.
It seems American lives are worth more than Iraqi lives.

by to nasser Wed Apr 18, 2007 19:45

The 170 dead in iraq- you can go to the top of the page.
click publish.
write it add a link or image and publish it here.

am pretty sure that it would be welcome.

also if you go into indymedia.org- you will find international coverage
of various things that are not on mainstream media.

The site has links to all the international sites.

:-)

by THE CIA MK Ultra / Monarch Project Mind Control Program Wed Apr 18, 2007 23:31

Think something like this just happens. Think again. The most effective Assassin or Secret Agent in the World is an Assassin or Secret Agent who doesn't know he's an Assassin or Secret Agent. So why did the CIA go to all that trouble on Mind Control if wouldn't work. Answer because it does work, and like a Charm. The Patsy goes on a Rampage then does himself and the evidence dies and Story die with him. Meanwhile the frightened Sheep cry for more Protection for a Police Force and Government that is given more power. And of course this is all about power. When a Predator is cornered or Wounded that is when he is his most Dangerous. That's when he resorts to 9-11's, Train Bombings, or MK Ultra / Monarch Project Shootings near Schools. And while the Predator (George W Bush) weeps Crocodile Tears in front of the TV Cameras, he also siezes more Power, and the Public forgets about Iraq War Lies, Firings of US Attorneys, or any other Scandal. The TV Cameras of CNN NBC ABC CBS FOX then focus all their efforts on the Shooting and echo their chorus to ban Guns and call for more Police Power as well, in Step with George W Bush and Cabal. And the Amerikan Public to Frightened to challenge them get right in step to.

by Fred Johnston Thu Apr 19, 2007 02:49 sylfredcar at iolfree dot ie

Yes, I too was struck by the constant reporting on the students killed, tragically, in Virginia - and the casual (by comparison) reporting on the almost 200 killed today in Baghdad. One resists the view that a reason for this is a very old one; the Virginia victims were 'ours' (ie, it happened in the West) and the Baghdadi victims are 'theirs' (it happened in the Middle East, it happened to odd-mannered people, not like us at all - as George W. Bush famously remarked to camera after September 11th concerning the hijackers.) The notion of a them and us is very important to colonial thinking. Remember that the US forces flatly refused to even count Iraqi civilian dead: why, of course, should they? These are 'others,' non-American, un-American - the notion of race at the very heart of any colonial movement has been ignored, oddly, in the invasion of Iraq, that most obviously racist event, where even the indigenous dead don't count. The message, of course, is clear: one young person in the West is worth many times the value of one young person in the Middle East - especially if he or she is an Arab. This is racism, pure and simple, and has been a murmurring undercurrent to the US campaign in Iraq and Afghanistan since the outset.

by Seamus Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:42 twtone at lycos dot com

Well put Fred, I clicked on this thread to see if anyone would mention the near 200 dead in bombings in Iraq. I was shocked by the 10secs of coverage it got on the news as compared to almost half the bulliten used up for the virginia shooting. Its not like I dont have sympathy for those killed and injured in the US, but hey the injured will get top class (so long as they have insurance of course) care whereas the maimed and blinded in Iraq can just be forgotten and left to rot.

I almost feel worse for the bloodied survivors of the near daily bombings in Iraq then the dead, they are beyond help, but what help or care is there for the limbless, the blinded, the deafened, and the burned dying an angonising end or living in extreme pain for the remainder of their miserable lives?

Its heart rending if you think about it. The main villans Bush and Blair dont care and are more taken up with spending billions on weapons of death and killing, then helping the sick, injured and dying. Grotesque imperialist racism indeed.....may Blair and Bush rot and die screaming.
Seamus

by aerial shot Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:09

there is an aerial shot in the newspapers.
in the crowd there is a child in green shorts.

little boy of maybe 7-8 years old.

The market in Baghdad was a food market.

He is resolutelty turning his back to the horror.
Someone is standing beside him.
Turning their back to the horror.

what do you tell your kids when faced with western sponsored terror?
that the evil people who perpetuate crime Mr Blair- that his own people support
him and will not demand his impeachment?

Blair is a criminal.
He is Ceauceascu.
He has destroyed the EU/The UK and the UN.
we live next door.
Bertie does business with this evil man.

Now what do we tell our kids who see these images in the newspapers
on the way to school- that we turn our backs to evil to put bread on the table?

Stop the War.
Bush out.
Bertie out.
Blair out.

The Hague should be all over Blair but they too ignore his evil- it damns our
simplicity , or society to support this evil.

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:25

Thank God there are some wise and thinking people in this gig like Fred and Seamus. I think your statements reflect well how most sane Irish people feel at this moment. Over and above the deep sadness (and anger) one cannot help feeling for the loss of (young and not-so-young) lives, be it over in the States or in Iraq, there are a couple of things that jump at us:

(1) The international, and to a large extent Irish, media response to the two concurrent events was 10:1 coverage of the Virginia massacre with long league tables about how many were killed and where and when in similar type atrocities. The White House statement, immediately after the massacre, that yes it was terrible, but we are not going to compromise on the Constitutional Right to carry arms - no we won't....echoed by that fool Juliani in New York, got scant coverage. The issue of gun control got less space in the commentary than the fact that the killer's sister is working for the Pentagon, channelling funds, taxpayers' money, to US companies in Iraq!

(2) The words and the statement of this seriously disturbed individual, from a Korean origin maybe but in good and 'educated' American sounds, also have been pushed under the carpet...why should he feel that he has been "crucified by the system"? Why refer to plush cars and expensive drinks? And all the references to Christ and the cross and being impaled and bleeding? What kind of 'security' situation allows him to kill some people, then take a couple of hours off making videos and posting them to NBC and the like 'explaining himself' , then go onto another spree?

Will we ever get any answers? Doubt it. But the massacre of Iraqis and the parallel loss of lives of American and British and Italian and 'other 'Allied' young working class women and men will go on. Until when?

by Puzzled Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:33

I dont understand what Fred and Michael are on about. Those 200 people, innocent civilians, were slaughtered by the organisations that you refer to as the Iraqi Resistance. Why is it ok for these militias to massacre civilians? How are shoppers in a market supporting the US Marines?

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:55

Dear puzzled,

I will only answer for myself. Fred is very able to take care of his own views.
Your 'puzzlement' puzzles me puzzly. Nowhere in my message above, or any message before in Indymedia or elsewhere, will you encounter any direct or indirect support by me, or the iawm, for the killing of civilians. However, what puzzles me greatly, is (1) the fact that no organisation has as yet claimed this latest atrocity (2) no detail and no proof appeared of any organisation's involvement in the market slaughter while a few miles up the road the suicide bombing of the police roadblock has been claimed (3) why should straight facts puzzle you so?
However, what would be interesting to read from you is your analysis of the context within which these massacres take place. Is there any link between the Empire's invasion and occupation of Iraq and this madness? Looking forward to a straight forward answer to unpuzzle us all.

by World Weary Thu Apr 19, 2007 13:31

There is nothing profound about this horrific massacre.

The silly little geek shot Ms Emily Hirschiler, a sweet lively young girl who was enjoying college and dating boys and Ryan Clark, a mature fine young man who it appears attempted to stop him.
He then slaughtered 30 other fine young people - young ambitious people who were destined achieve academically, to do well in life, to raise families and leave the world a better place.

The late Mr Choo, could have done a lot of good in the world - instead of writing about murder and slaughter and then acting out his narcisstic fantasies - he could have dropped out of Virginia Tech if he hated - he could have made something of himself elsewhere made his hardworking parents proud.

But he didn't - he achieved fame for a few days in the national press and TV - maybe a Hollywood movie?

What about the students who emerge from universites and put their skills to go use - in medecine, science, politics, business - as inventers, researchers, doctors, technicians, engineers, care workers, lawyers, judges and other public servants?

Few of them seek fame - they seek to be productive human beings and to leave the world a better place when they leave it than when they came into it.

As for Mr Choo?

He is a nothing. Weeds will over his grave.

by anarcho panthers Thu Apr 19, 2007 13:49

which are compiled by editors in each city - you see that Chomsky & Zinn's Zmag interview which was published last night went immediately up on the Penn state site. Penn state of course is home to the Amish. The Amish don't do telly, internet, newspapers, war, tax, cars, electricity, drugs or guns. They don't even do obits. Obits and Gravestones caused their last big "schism" with different factions of "modernist lazy Amish" opting for sentimentality over simplicity. Many people in Ireland might have missed the panic and terror which has gone like a wildfire through US universities. This terror visited the Amish in a one room schoolhouse. Almost half of the kids in that one room were what we call "special needs". If the Amish talked to us we'd know how they're getting on. We know all big schools (high schools) have security and weapon control and the careers guidance officers in between talking to their hands - keep a close eye on sociopaths. The majority of whom can be weeded out of the high school system before graduation into the penitentiary system or at high school into the military. But some still get into university. In the western tradition we have afforded many of our most respected and brilliant minds a decent enough life complete with bed and board in our universities for a very long time. It wasn't surprising to see "our generation" in the USA thanks to VT day - forget the horror and terror of the Amish attack - and then forget all about Iraq, all about South America, all about Bush and all about anything. Some even forgot their politics - thinking them to be "sociopathic" or "misfit".

We know there is nothing wrong with anarchism. You're not a misfit or a loner to support or identify with anarchism. This troubled shooter (what were his troubles?) will be forgotten soon - but the effect he leaves on academia will not. In the last hours US chat-sites have rallied to their favourite academics asking are they safe? And you know - quite a few of our own favourite academics must have worried - are they safe?

The commercial media presents us stories - plays them out to saturation - creating a tale which is longer than its substance - and stretching wounds before they may heal ensuring the psychological scars are even more disfiguring. That at end is the work of the Global Psychological Complex - which ensures we only think of 125 states in less than 30 nation-states as being the "world".

I hope we've learnt our lesson - we heal - & we go on. We're not scared. Nor do we need to make radical social adjustments. Ending the right to bear arms for this - merely means some will continue to hold arms - and psycopaths will go back to knives. It is my opinion that the imc collectives of Penn, MA and some other reliable entities demonstrated they have learnt the lessons. But other communities in the USA did not. Almost half the imc's are playing the game of "terror hits universities" forgetting what they were so passionate about only 160 hours ago.
This will happen again. You know it will. At the same time another 200 people will die in Iraq.
Africa will produce enough history to fill a newspaper & not merit a sentance. Are we going to react the same way again? The same clichés? I hope not.

by World Weary Thu Apr 19, 2007 14:18

The terrorists in all four groups - Al-Qaeda, the Sunni militias,the Sunni militi and the Baath are all sick twisted minds just like Mr Choo - they all seek international recognition by mindless murder and slaughter of innocents.

Just like Saddam before them.

The Bin Ladens, Al-Zarqawis and Al-Sadrs of the Middle East are school yard bullies drawn large.

The majority of people through out the world want simply to live without fear and to better themselves and their countries.

Poverty and injustice cannot be solved by radicalised terrorists, fanatics and sociopathic ideologies of hatred like Islamic extremism, fascism and extremist socialism.

Where ever these forces emerge the US will oppose them.

Sick minds like Mr Choo try to escape their limitations by sick violence.

In the same way sick minds like Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Lade stirred up hatred.

by OiC Thu Apr 19, 2007 18:23

If not description of "terrorists" falling into only 4 categories like that of the last comment will be the sole lessons learnt. By now all those who wish to in the 125 states which pass for the "world" thanks to the Global Psychological Complex have seen the video the shooter found time to make.
We immediately see many hallmarks of the delusional having been taught to recognise and emulate them countless times by Hollywood and the US syndicate TV corporations. Of course he invoked Jesus Christ and claimed to have become him - Of course he blamed others and listed their crimes and debaucheries and excesses - all the typical language of an adolescent. But he was not an adolescent. We all know of course that adolescence extends now to near 25 years of age with its make-believe world - its psychotic breaks & delusional projections.
It is the opinion of this writer at least that we ought quickly cast an eye across our campuses and extended groups for any of these adolescent symptoms. That of course was the purpose of the "global day of satan news update" & the release of the short video. The resonance of this attack is such that its replication is very likely. At this very moment another kid is considering his valedictory dvd and symbolic number or type of victim(s). Those who are central to marginalised social groups with ambivalent attitudes to the role violence plays in US culture such as the far left, pagan groups, patriot movement & certain ethnic groups don't need to shop anyone to the shrinks or FBI - but for a few days the next time-bomb will most probably be ticking quite audibly.
We have a very long list of valued teachers & not a little hair on their head will be touched without an excessive and appropriate response. But within our very groups and organisations the next threat to civilised equilibrium might be found.

If we are honest - we admit we understand Terror a lot more than we ever pretend. We actually are pretty good at the when, what and why. We've all noticed its transcendent almost biorythmical quality. We have long absorbed the need for ritual which prefaces any act of mass murder or massacre and linked the patterns of such ritual to other cognitive parameters. But "who" is going to say next "you made me do this - this is your fault" is not nor can be made too clear. Nevertheless it would be good exercise for us to review psychological security on our campuses and research facilities. Our good teachers are not so easy to replace.

You only define Terror by the name it is ascribed to using on a website or a video. That's all
We don't use recognised codewords or balaclavas anymore. Listen for that ticking.

by Tearful Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:45

Blame society, blame materialism, blame the system etc etc etc. yada yada yada.

The truth is that the silly geek who went beserk in Virginia Tech is the one to blame.

His parents sacrificed so much to give him the opportunity he threw back in their faces with ingratitude.
A son can always find love and understanding in his parents but he never sought it.

His professors tried to help, to give him a chance.
They saw a bright kid in trouble but could not break into his hard shell.

Emily, the sweet fun loving girl who loved animals and wanted to be a vet, saw the nice side in him, because everyone has the potential to be beautiful, might have loved him even but Cho let the darkness in his soul scare her away.

Ryan Clark the first young man he murdered might have been trying to talk him down, to tell him people could help him if he only let them, that it didn't have to be this way.

The 75 year old Jewish Professor, a man who survived the horrors of the Nazi deathcamps, a man who could have help this poor lost young man was shot trying to save other from his madness.

The young people who died, so full of life, would have included him if he was willing to share himself with them rather than demanding their homage to his narcisstic ego.

There is so much love in the world, so much opportunities to love others, so many possibilities to live a life of love.

There is no glory in death just death.

Cho was ultimately a thief, he stole everything others had and everthing they were ever going to have.

We should all pray for everyone in world who suffers and those who are victims of hate.

We each should all make a sacrifice every day by doing a good deed, even a small act of kindness, to another person.

Forget our own troubles and heal the troubles of others.

by Someone Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:36

This was a tragedy in which the shooter is included. I feel sorry for him too. I am interested about his ‘rant’ of being bullied and of being fed up with ‘reach kids’ etc., I wish he had had an outlet that could have helped him rather than a sick society where he had the avenue of buying fire arms and going on a shooting rampant.

As bad as this tragedy is, it is a blessing the killer was not an Arab, a Black man or a Mexican.

“World Weary”, watch the weeds growing in your own mind and among your midst of “fine men and women”, that’s more important for you and us all than Mr Choo’s grave. Your words may unfortunately sell in your lobotomized US, but not here in Ireland. In fact, what the heck are you doing in Indymedia! You’re not even a ‘good’ cop, deserve your pay at least!

Nasser El Sonbatty points out the extensive media coverage of 32 deaths in the US gets, while 170 Iraqi deaths are just seconds in the news here. Mind you, there is one of the 32 victims who is getting very special extensive coverage, Zionists are making sure of that. Very telling and very worrying indeed. This hierarchy gives a good insight as to who is doing the cooking both in the Middle East and indeed in the US.

by Tearful Fri Apr 20, 2007 13:12

"As bad as this tragedy is, it is a blessing the killer was not an Arab, a Black man or a Mexican."

What difference does that make?

Whites, Arabs, Blacks, Mexican individuals with similar psychological profiles to Mr Cho have been responsible for mass shootings.

Why are you making this an issue of race for anyway?

Mr Cho was not part of any race or group or any other variable.
He was not part of any oppressed minority or excluded substrata.

He was a selfish whining jealous child who committed heinous crimes.

I am bewildered how you can feel sorry for him quite frankly.

by Psi Fri Apr 20, 2007 14:12

Virginian Tech Blackburg known as VT saw a massacre in which 2 separate shootings were attributed at first to different culprits. Unprecedented use of cyberspace saw the alledged shooter who died in the massacre accused of posting a warning (he did not) and then a videocall purportedly made by the shooter mid-massacre was aired to global audiences.

- it was not now they say made mid-massacre and as they apologise for the hurt and trauma admit it might have been a bad idea. Snuff movies are not entertainment - and ought be left to the experts - we are not to encourage amateur gunned up messiahs especially from ethnic minorities.

& so the network TV stations "apologize". Great. No worries there. Legitimate entertainment and global psychological complex agenda & practices, targets to be met.

Ok. that's that then. We are off the Red Alert now. Our teachers are safe. Our Korean misfits are not be molested anymore. Americans are not sophisticated enough to identify the psychopaths in their midst. Forget you saw the video. Forget the Kill Bill theme tune. We are not repeat We are not going to have a Race War.

by THE BUSH MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE / CIA MK ULTRA ASSASSINS Fri Apr 20, 2007 23:14

Think that people just get up out of bed one day and decide to do these things? Think again. Now it appears that there is a Surge of Copy Cats across Amerika. Right. This is a CIA Sponsored Scheme. You see King George the Worst is in alot of Trouble of most of his policies Foreign and Domestic and the Powers That be are pulling out all the stops on this. Observe how the so-called Liberal Left aka the Democraps are jumping into bed with Dubya. Observe the Coverage that this is getting and how Iraq and Iran have all but disappeared from the front pages. This is not the work of one man but the work of a group of men backing Bush. So the next time a Big Bang happens out of the Blue you'll know why.

by Peter Anderson Fri Apr 20, 2007 23:56

As an American the comment from the likes of Fred Johnson turn my stomach, only a person with an agenda against America could bring Iraq into the tragedy of Virginia.

by Fred Johnston Sat Apr 21, 2007 01:41 sylfredcar at iolfree dot ie

Even as I write news comes in of someone else going on a shooting spree, this time in NASA. Real peaceful country you've got there, buddy. I won't even attempt to refute your remarks; as I say, it is perfectly clear that the imperialist mind views all who are not like it as 'others' and therefore, by definition, of lesser importance. Perhaps, 'as an American,' you can tell us why the US military refused constantly to count the Iraqi civilian dead in the country they illegally invaded. As the news fills once again with headlined reports of all types about the Virginia tragedy, perhaps you can tell us how many Iraqis died today, and how often you saw it on your TV screen. Have you ever seen Iraq's grieving families interviewed? Would you describe their pain as a tragedy? No. That's my point. Their sorrow is unimportant, ignorable. They are 'other'. Far away. You do not know them. Your stomach is right to turn; your nation was founded on murder, dispossession, broken treaties with indigenous peoples - there's not a house in the US that isn't built on ground that once was walked upon by a native American. Violence, gun-law . . . . . . can you not see for yourself? Let your stomach turn at the thought of the raving lunatic you've elected as president.

by DVD collection & Viral treatments Sat Apr 21, 2007 08:33

of Shooters. It may be the Jim Carey 2007 movie "number 23" or it could be the Mark Wahlberg movie "shooter". We don't yet. Experts will look into it and spend the next 5 years watching snuff videos from as wide a possible selection of sources. Independent movie makers with a budget of 80-120 million per film will be included with Oscar winners.
This news ought lay at rest any niggling doubts that the Blackburg massacre was a bomb, Al Qaeda attack or result of mind control experimentation. Experts may be recruited from as far away as Ireland or Israel to help the homeland federal agencies isolate future shooters and offer them hands on editing facilities to cut down those hours of snuff footage. shoot a shorter shooting has been suggested as the slogan for preschool learners to highschool straigt A students this morning from global counter-psi war HQ. "keeping u safe from the spooks"

you don't need any more comments on this article. you haven't for a day. NASA gets done that's a new thread in sci-tech.

Blackburg VT its over now.
didn't work. bad reviews. no practical military covert application.

by Smekkleysa Sat Apr 21, 2007 18:36

Knock-knock
Who is there?
Cho Seung
Cho Seung wh?!
Bang

Bad taste? How many times will this text be reproduced? How many fetishised reproductions of Cho brandishing handguns have already been reproduced? Which newspaper has not used pictures of Cho for sensationalist, self-serving purposes? Which channel has not broadcast the video for ratings?

by archivist Thu Aug 20, 2009 20:49

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8211289.stm

by not the NRA Sun Aug 23, 2009 00:46

For general information: while Obama has done very little on the gun control issue he is being hammered on the issue by the gun lobby in the US. See the wild video at the link