URGENT:Counter Demo to Anti-Choice Gathering Outside Four Courts

by Dorothy Gale - Choice Ireland Tue May 15, 2007 14:32 choiceireland at gmail dot com

"Well done to all involved in Alliance for Choice. It has shown itself to be an active, campaigning, and relevant group that did a great job last week (and did it in the real world). "

Just to clarify, the demos and pickets in support of Miss D (and of a Womans Right To Choose) were organised by Choice Ireland. They were supported by AFC and other Pro Choice groups.

choiceireland@gmail.com

by A. Williams Sun May 13, 2007 09:43

The anti-woman, backwards, anti-choice people on these boards seem to take their information from newspapers. Why? Cause they weren't there, and even they can see that Youth Defense disgraced their side of the argument at the demo.

Youth Defence are an embarrassment to the anti-choice religious reactionaries. Saying that, at least they form a relevant part of the debate, unlike the virtual anti-woman, anti-choice warriors who moan on and on and all online.

Youth Defence: Embarrasment.
Anti-Choice posters on indymedia: Irrelevant.

Both groups: Anti Woman, religious reactionaries.

Well done to all involved in Alliance for Choice. It has shown itself to be an active, campaigning, and relevant group that did a great job last week (and did it in the real world). Fair play.

by JOD Sun May 13, 2007 00:30

The newspapers reported the pro-choicers at the 4 courts as being PROTESTORS not as supporters.
Are all the newspapers wrong?

by L'OTHERS Sun May 13, 2007 00:18

Thanks for the clarification Dorothy. It's good to see people who have a factual basis to their arguments post on indymedia, rather than the hysterical and inarticulate ranting that we have come to expect from pro-life reactionaries like Elisa.

Well done to all who got involved in protecting MsD from the rightwing scum who turned up outside the four courts to attack her basic rights. I gather that, as always, pro-choice activists conducted themselves with the dignity and humility.

by Dorothy Gale - Choice Ireland Sat May 12, 2007 17:31

Miss D thanked Choice Ireland for supporting her at the Court and for collecting signatures in support of her. She accepted the petitions from CI members.

by Elisa O'Donovan Sat May 12, 2007 13:32

"well she definately didn't want the pro-lifers to be there, that's for sure!"

I think its pretty obvious from her interview with the Irish independent today that she wanted no one to be there,no placards,screaming people trying to get their agenda across. I think both pro choice and pro life did themselves no favours with their protests outside the courts over the last week and should be ashamed of themselves.Protesters on either side of the argument should have treated Miss D with a bit more care,consideration and sympathy and kept away rather than trying to push their own feeble agendas.
Miss D and her family If you ever read this, I would like to apologise on behalf of many pro life people throughout Ireland at the disgraceful images and demonstrations that were inflicted on you outside the courts this week.

by The Insider Fri May 11, 2007 19:29

....well she definately didn't want the pro-lifers to be there, that's for sure!

Don't be bitter about losing - there's more ahead so get used to it.

by blah Fri May 11, 2007 15:49

You didn't stop or achieve anything.

Terrible circumstances and no-one wins. A distraught mother is the result of this. The fact is no sides should've been outside the four courts during the week. Miss D certainly didn't ask the pro choice to be there.

It was like a scene from Fr Ted.

by Nell V Mary Fri May 11, 2007 14:49

Anyone see the t.v. yesterday, Nell Cafferty asked Mary H about this abortion issue

by The Insider Fri May 11, 2007 14:12

Not so much celebration - we have stopped the law being rolled back and established that the right to travel is absolute - as relief.

You're right, there is not much to celebrate from a pro-choice standpoint in this, the status quo is unacceptable, but what would be even more unacceptable would be the law saying that there are restrictions on the right to travel, and that Miss D could not go.

by Karla B Thu May 10, 2007 19:51

Just to the insider, I don't really understand why you're cheering, saying 'woo hoo' and 'you lose' to the opposition The fact of the matter is that everybody lost here, no great celebratory victory was gained for either side, and definitely not for the woman or her unborn. The law with regards to abortion remains exactly as it was two weeks ago,it is still as illegal as ever, and I suppose if anybody 'won' it is least of all the pro-choice lobby, who used this girls situation to try to challenge and change Irish law. All you have achieved is making yourself look strangely celebratory about death and trauma.

by wal Thu May 10, 2007 13:18

Well said Bradley.
I'm curious though - you say you support miss.d. -
can you tell us exactly how you support her? Is it some meaningless abstract support
or the support you would give a football team or has your support any practical and useful expression?

by listening Thu May 10, 2007 12:56

Interesting discussion on mid-west radio yesterday with women dealing with the traumatic
after-effects of abortion. It aired a side you rarely hear about. I've certainly never heard anything
like it on RTE.
Food for thought

by Dorothy Gale Thu May 10, 2007 12:30

Good pics.

The priest in th 3rd pic is the one who sprinkled us with holy water!

by bríd Thu May 10, 2007 12:27

pix from the four courts/miss d verdict

by Edwina (brazil) Thu May 10, 2007 12:21

I agree with you J. - respect please.

And to some of you that say you are pro-choice, why would you cheer at this? Reflect on your position please.

Yes, the decision yesterday finally allows Miss D do what she should have had the right to do. She can hopefully now begin to move on from the traumatic few weeks she must have experienced, and I hope she will be supported through what may be some difficult times ahead, and as J. suggests this will be the case.

While pro-choice people regularly point to the circumstances in which women's experience of terminating a pregnancy has been the best decision for them, they often do not discuss the difficulties women experience in making that decision, going through with it, and the impact on their thinking and lives after it has happened (due to the actual termination, but also due to many other social factors that have come together in their lives at that time). It is dangerous to disavow this reality that many women experience as it only leads to a forgetting of the importance of support (whether formal from the state or informal through networks of friends and loved ones).

Fortunatley the more reasoned and experienced pro-choice people do recognise this, as J.s comments above attest. They are just not always as loud as the reactionaries.

Many of the arguments presented on this site during the time Miss D's case has been before the courts have more often than not been little more than the ideological façade and reactionary taunts of two sides more interested in bolstering their own agendas (both pro and anti-choice/pro-life, yadayadayada, whatever you want to label yourself and your opponent as) than recognising that this is about a thinking and breathing human, in this case Miss D, and not about advancing the 'truth' of your ideology. While I do not know any anti-choice/pro-life people and how they think about Miss D's case in the privacy of their own lives (in public the organised faction outside the Four Courts and elsewhere have appeared inhumane and manipulative), thankfully I have met many pro-choice people that are far more reasoned about Miss Ds case in public (and highly supportive of the woman in their private activities) and pro-choice issues more broadly. They clearly understand that it is primarily about people and not bolstering an ideology, and so it is easier for me to move beyond the rhetoric of the reactionaries that have been posting their musings and rants here and realise that some of what is on Indymedia is not necessarily representative of pro-choice people.

I wish the more silent people the very best in their continuing intensity of engagement and I will continue to commit myself, in support of your engagement (and mine where it might assist), to an absolute insistence on well-reasoned support for people who find themselves in the position where terminating pregnancy is one of the few options left available to them, and changing the system to permit them to realise their rights.

That was a bit long-winded but I had to say it.

by J. Thu May 10, 2007 11:40

D is a young woman who knows what she is going through, who has been commended for
her dignity by Justice Mc Kenchie.

She has wonderful support and care from those who are friends.
It is time now to let her, an individual have some peace and quiet.
Suggestion to Gemma :- it is undignified to behave in such a manner. It is not
your womb and it is not your choice.

in fact it has nothing at all to do with you.
this is private.

It became public because of the refusal to acknowledge and discuss the problem.
that is all.

by The Insider Wed May 09, 2007 20:32

You lose, get over it.

Or better still, get used to it. There's only one way this fight is going, and it's not your way.

by Eva Wed May 09, 2007 16:50

"Woo hoo"

So that's how you greet the news that a baby is going to be killed. So it's not about being compassionate or Miss D at all - just about getting your own way.

At least the pro-lifers had the dignity to recognise how sad it is when a human life is ended.

by Dorothy Gale Wed May 09, 2007 16:24

"Great news.

Hope that deflates the fundies outside the 4 courts."

It certainly did. They withdrew dejectedly. All of the fight was gone from them.

Earlier they had sent 2 of their members to video and photograph Choice supporters. They were literally pushing their cameras into peoples faces. A gentle peace loving Choice supporter pushed a camera lens away and the "lifers" complained to a Garda and accused him of assaulting them!

The famous Brendan was along supporting the "lifer" demo. Brendan is a racist and supporter of Gerry McGeough. At a previous Choice demo Brendan threatened to beat up a frail young woman. Brendan is also a coward and isnt much good at dealing with people his own size.

A priest provided us with some entertainment when he sprinkled us with holy water as he headed home (to his children no doubt).

This was a victory for Miss D but the war continues, Irish Women still do not have access to Abortion in Ireland.

by elect Wed May 09, 2007 16:23

nice one

hopefully this should make the pro-lifers think more about who was fighting for the humane thing to be done here....do they still believe that letting a girl carry a baby for nine months and having it die in her arms shortly after birth is pro-life......pro-sadism and pro-mentality of the people who turned up outside the courts with their childen shouting obscenities at the pro-choicers, me thinks.......

by The Insider Wed May 09, 2007 15:02

Great news.

Hope that deflates the fundies outside the 4 courts.

by s Wed May 09, 2007 14:58

they are letting her go!

finally!

by . Wed May 09, 2007 14:20

Use your tech.
record.
know your rights.

don't give it back.
hold your ground.

do not get defensive or emotional and rely on your friends.
record everything.
mobile phones.
radio.
video.
retain all evidence.
take care.

by s Wed May 09, 2007 14:15

hearing bad things from down at the demo
apparently there's up to 100 of them waving their crazy placards around

they have also initiated scuffles, coming over to the protesters who support miss d's choice, en mass, pushing, and then screaming into cameras about the "violence" of the other side.

also cheering when passing motorists beep to support miss d, claiming public support is with them.
they are utterly wrong.

horrible insensitive fanatics

nasty business