Justice? Two years have passed and the Wheelock family still have no answers.

by SF Mon Jun 11, 2007 23:33

A few shots of some of the Sinn Féin activists among the crowd on Saturday. Mary Lou McDonald has pledged continued support for the campaign to secure a proper independent inquiry. In her speech she made the point that turning up at rallies and making speeches, while important, is not nearly enough.

Neither is simply sympathising with the family about their plight. As she put it "Tea and sympathy is not enough". So the party has made a firm undertaking to work at every level to support the Wheelock family and the community's fight for justice.

by JM Tue Jun 12, 2007 03:32 Rossport

Fair play to the Wheelock family and their neighbours, persisting with their dignified cause in the face of horrible facts and brutish ignorance by the State authorities.

With true hearts justice will be yours.

by anon Thu Jun 14, 2007 17:45

great pictures.. fair play to the protest its the only way to get things done in this country..
alot of people are interested in this case keep up the good work.

by maura Wed Jun 20, 2007 15:24

Last friday a man in tralee garda station in co.kerry died of injuries after be arrested for a seual assault,.
The man described as foreign national from poland, died on arrival at tralee hospital is unclear how he died of his injuries.
There are two serperate investigations on going, one from the garda ombudsman commision and the gardai own internal investigation.
Unlike the wheelock case on this occasion the cell was sealed of for techicnical examination, and the garda station closed down for a short time. And an investigation team moved in.
All protocols seem to have been followed.

IN the wheelock case on the 2nd of june 2005 at store st garda station.

The cell was immediately renovated immediately after the incident despite the legal team having a court order.

Terence wheelock was found at a different location of the station by emergency personel.

His family where driven to the wrong hospital losing an hour of there time.

custody records where intervered with.

his clothes where taken by the gardai and withheld, intil court directed otherwise

There was extensive injuries to his body.

there was also blood on his clothes.

the state patholigist never veiwed 35 photos epicting injuries

and the state forensic scientist never tested blood found on his clothes.

Terence Wheelock at Home

Terence wheelocks old Home in Summerhill D1

by peader Thu Jul 12, 2007 13:54

terence was a good friend, and neighbour, like other kids in the area he was often harrassed by local police for nothing other than standing around cracking jokes, or playing music.
like most youths in the area he came into contact at an early age with the gardai.
They seem to have a serious public relations problem with the kids in the nth innercity mostly, male youths, from the ages of twelve to twenty years, profiling this age group and gender has seriously undermined these kids confidence, the message coming from the local gardai is you are future criminals and we are on to you.... narrowminded i know, but this is the mentality that exists among ignorant gardai in that area.. this has to change.
The local policing forum, at killarney court (formerly joseph mansions) have aduty to protect the youth in the area whom they are supposed to represent, by standing up for there civil rights, hopefully they wake from there cushy chairs, and pay attention to what really goes on in the area, befor there is another terence wheelock.

by Update Fri Jul 13, 2007 15:54

Some of the blood found on Terence Wheelock's t-shirt was not his own .... rather this blood has been matched by experts to that of a relative .... now doesnt that put an interesting slant on things!! Maybe there should be an independant enquiry conducted a little closer to home!!???

Ref: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland...6.ece

by Aragon Fri Jul 13, 2007 18:57

Wheelock found to have died by suicide - a serious blow to his family:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfididgboj/

by Al Fri Jul 13, 2007 20:46

Well now much to ponder from today.

Blood on T-shirt? The very thing that has been going around, the proof that he was assaulted sure how else could it get there? Answer that AL!

Well for starters some of it wasnt his, perhaps the Wheelocks need to answer many questions before they start throwing accusations around. The first being, did they realise that a relatives blood could be told apart from the exact person??????

Secondly, all other blood marks completely consistant with the medical treatment he recieved from medical experts. But sure that was completely expected and as I said so so long ago.

But what of the other marks on his clothes? Disinfectant, oh how sinister those crafty Gardai are.

But lets not just look at that aspect, sure what about the bruising he received? Explain that one you corrupt murdering Gardai.

Well, again consistant with the medical treatement he recieved. Perhaps next time a doctor or EMT is dealing with someone they should be softer?

But Al, how does that explain the injuries on his hands? Surely thats not medical?

True, true lets look at what was said by Dr Cassidy. "Possible from an assault but not an assault on him"?????

What? Are you suggesting that Terrence beat someone up? That he was a criminal? No no no, Terrence was a Saint who had never been in a fight, never involved in an assault of any type until he went into the cell.

Well apparantly not, the coronors court has spoken. He commited suicide, he did it himself. No Gardai hurt him. No blood or bruising was caused by Gardai. In fact apart from medical intervention, all injuries were self caused either in the cell or beforehand. Not that I expect any supporters tp admit the truth, I expect we will see 3 things now. Blind hatred filled comments, false evidence either new or old used again despite being proven false or perfect silence.

It doesnt matter really, the simple facts have spoken. Case closed.

by Betty Fri Jul 13, 2007 20:59

I'd put the kleenex away and zip up for a while longer Al. I wouldn't imagine this is over yet. A 4-3 decision after the coroner directs them that it was suicide. Remember Donegal?

by Frank Hand Fri Jul 13, 2007 22:33

Aragon, the verdict isn't a blow for the family, they never expected much from the coroners court. The court served it’s purpose, it gave the case wide spread publicity.
Al, I bet you fucken’ wished what you said was true!!!!!!! You know well that this is only the start of the pressure on the murdering bastards. Word has it that each of the bastards involved is trying to blame the other. The pig Murphy didn’t look too confident on the stand did she? Just wait till she is called into a real court without a hand picked jury!

by noel Fri Jul 13, 2007 22:46 innercity

al. dont get your knickers in a knot....
its only the start of a long campaign for the truth of what those murdering idiots try to get away with.
what happened to day was a travesty of justice..
that verdict was railroaded, the jury reached a split deision
they where instructed by the coroner and garda picked jury to find a suicide verdict, on the basis that there was no proof to suggest that anybody was in the cell with terence.
fact three of the seven jury members did not believe it.
four where instructed to reach a verdict, it only the start.

by ermintrude Sat Jul 14, 2007 20:51

The inquiry has revealed that the pathologist discovered bloodstains from a close relation on Mr. Wheelock's clothing.

Now that the Garda have been cleared it is imperative that a homicide inquiry be instituted in order to ascertain what happened to Mr Wheelock prior to his been taken into custody.

I have no doubt that those who were so anxious to pin this thing on the Gardai will be just as anxious to get to the whole and entire truth as to who was really responsible for Mr Wheelock's injuries.

If there is a murderer out there on the loose the public welfare demands he or she be apprehended and tried.

by tony Sun Jul 15, 2007 13:48

yes a homicide did take place, and by no means where the gardai cleared, 3/4 after a hung jury ,
then directed by the coroner to find a death of suicide,
does not put the gardai in the clear, obviously for all to see there where serious concerns with in the jury.
compounded with the lack of expert independent witness's allowed to give evidence,
was simply a travesty.
To watch this family railroaded by red tape,
To watch gardai lie after lie.
when there storys dont add up its put down to mistakes or bad recollection, these people call themselves professionals.
it leaves alot to be disired in the coroners court which is dominated by gardai from day to day.
They also pick the jury.
i for one am appalled, the an engineers report (which some of is published in the sunday tribue today)
stating that it is his expert opinion that the photos produced by gardai depicting a ligature hanging from steel plated alarm panel flused with a concrete encased wall, was in his words.
A reconstruction. ie.. a fabrication, invented evidence,
he stated it would be near impossible to carry out such a feat in the timeframe put forward by the gardai.
what was seen at this inquest was a tissue of lies and fabrications by "the gaurdians of the peace"
Had the jury seen those independent reports by experts i am absolutely satisfied, that they would of reached a different conclusion.
And by the way to all these self appionted critics who absolutely know nothing about this case other than what they read from garda socalled "investigative journos" which are garda "proxy storys" by default.
There is vital evidence which was not admitted to the coroners court, or the jury
to suggest that it was impossible for terence wheelock to take his own life.
And any one to suggest the coroners court is independent, or "has the power to call witness's" it telling a misconceived falsehood.
This has clearly been seen in this tragic case and exposed the coroner cout for what it is another arm of the state, it is not independent.
my sincere sympathies to the family, and i have no doubt that true there endeavours they will get the truth and expose this whitewash for what it is.
its an absolute disgrace.

by logical solution Sun Jul 15, 2007 14:25

I have been following this thread and it seems obvious that some here don't believe this was suicide .
So why not take a civil case against the Gardai? if the evidence by independent experts is as convincing as has been stated here, the case would easily prove it wasn't suicide.

by tony Sun Jul 15, 2007 14:47

well has the family have publicly stated, this is the case, and which has widely been published they intend taking there case to the europeen convention on human rights,
But to wirte this lads life off after a railroaded discision in the coroners court with what now appears obvious with extremely limited parameters in relation to independent experts who contradict state expert findings, which by the way have histroy of been wrong in there conclusions ie..(brian murpghy).

by Observer Sun Jul 15, 2007 16:27

With respect to all those posting, would it be an idea to wait and see if the Garda Ombudsman decide to investigate and then await the outcome of their investigation.

The Coroner was not allowed in law to admit anything but the expert evidence offered by the state, ie, the state pathologist and forensic examiner, and therefore it should be no suprise as to the verdict.

Given the membership of the Ombudsman's Commission I would have no difficulty accepting their findings. I would encourage all those others posting here to have some restraint as NOBODY actually knows what happened on the day Terence died.

by not Mon Jul 16, 2007 17:09

AL why did the gardai run the Wheelocks out of their home, doesn't make em look good?

by jim Mon Jul 16, 2007 19:46

yes i would agree with what observer has said.
but i for one would also agree with some of the comments posted that the family where hard done by .

by lisa Mon Jul 23, 2007 14:17

al, does'nt know what she's talking about, this person ws caught telling lies in the past in relation to terence death.
and was one of the very first to get on the net about this case,
al is full of crap.
and has been exposed of what she is involved in terence arrest and cover up shame on you al,
what goes around comes around you will never have any luck, until this case is put to rest.

by justicia Mon Jul 23, 2007 15:26

People contributing to this discussion seem to be labouring under a misunderstanding as to the legal position of the Coroner.

The Coroner is not subject to the Gardai or the government. The Coroner is an independent officer whose responsibilities are to determine the cause of death and to make such recommendations arising from her finding as she may at her absolute discretion consider appropriate. The pathologist and any Gardai taking statements from persons whose evidence on the circumstances of a death are required, act on the instructions of the coroner and report to the coroner (Any investigations as to the possible commission of a crime, or to Garda behaviour, are entirely separate matters from the coroner's investigation)

Historically, Coroners are not in the least bit adverse to criticising the Gardai, their procedures, or the circumstances of the detention and custody of deceased persons.

Two facts are manifest. 1. There is a great responsibility on the shoulders of Gardai when exercising the powers the people have conferred on them to detain citizens. 2. Detained persons are often both vulnerable and difficult because of substances they may have taken, or because they may have sustained injuries prior to, or in the course of arrest.. The investigations which are now to ensue will have to address these matters, and also the circumstances which apparantly led to Mr. Wheelock sustaining serious injuries prior to the arrival of the Gardai. It is essential that if the Gardai or their proceedures have been found wanting that these defaults be addressed and the defaulters brought to account. Similarly, it is essential that if Mr. Wheelock was the victim of an assault prior to his coming into contact with the Gardai that night, the culprit (or culprits) must be brought to justice.

Justice is served by the truth, whether or not the truth is convenient to the Gardai on the one hand, or the supporters of the late Mr. Wheelock, on the other.

by joe Mon Jul 23, 2007 15:58

what aload of rubbish.... terence wheelock was not " assaulted prior to coming in to contact with the gardai" he was assaulted by gardai as witness by neighbours and one of his friends who gave evidence to the coroners court, he had a damaged hand due to the fact that he had been assaulted by the same arresting gaurd the week befor, which was logged in the matear hospital which jounalists have published in sunday newpapers.
secondly it was the middle of the day he was arrested12:20 pm.
so if your going to talk about this case at least be familar with the circumstance of mr wheelocks arrest and detention and the facts that have come befor the court.

by nihethea Tue Jul 24, 2007 00:05

The pathologist's report clearly indicates that Mr. Wheeloch had been involved in an earlier altercation. The inference of what is revealed in the pathologist's report needs to be invesyigated even though it may be highly unconfortable for the Wheelock family.

Justce is about uncovering the truth, not about getting a "result" which confirms your prejudices against the Gardai..

by Al Tue Jul 24, 2007 03:14

Blah blah blah, same old story.

Dont answer the questions that dont sit well but throw out bland accusations with no basis in reality. Sad really but thats the users here for you.

Now please lets look at reality, the Gardai dont pick coroner court jurers. the jurers were not told to find suicide, it was 1 of 3 findings they were allowed reach and another was misadventure which meant he was murdered. they chose suicide over murder as a finding.

As said above the coroner is nothing to do with the Gardai and has critisised the Gardai in the past.

4/3 close? yes but do we not live in a democracy? Does innocent until proven guilty not apply to Gardai? Are majority decisions by citizens of the state not acceptable?

Independent witnesses? Not allowed give evidence? Sorry but thats simple not true. The ones that werent was because there credentials were not recognised, you know people commonly called quacks.

But one thing that will be ignored, ignored and ignored just like I predicted, no one will come out and answer how blood got on the shirt AFTER it was removed. No one will answer how that bit of DNA came about. Oh no, thats not convenient for this witch hunt.

You all need to grow up and decide where you stand. Do you want truth? democracy and freedom of speech? Presumption of innocence? If you answer yes to any of those questions then you must accept the coroners findings.

Besides, the medical evidence is there, it clearly agrees with suicide. How does bruising on a fist from punching someone else support an allegation of murder by Gardai? It doesnt, this is all crap and lies being pushed by people that simple hate Gardai and will say and do anything to attack them.

Why did the Gardai push them out? they didnt, they left of their own free will. Sorry if Gardai patroling an area is bad for some families business but thats called policing and stopping criminals. Maybe the Gardai should ignore certain areas completely? Maybe the Gardai should only patrol Terenure and Blackrock???? Then you could accuse them of ignoring working class areas and only looking after the rich. Win win for the haters here.

Oh and Im a man not a woman. My name is Al as in Alan.

Now answer the questions,

HOW DID SOMEONE ELSES BLOOD GET ON THE T-SHIRT AFTER IT WAS REMOVED?

WHY DID THE WHEELOCKS POINT TO THIS BLOOD AS SOLID EVIDENCE AGAINST THE GARDAI WHEN THEY THEMSELVES PUT IT THERE?

by Donal Tue Jul 24, 2007 17:27

al...al..al..al
sure....... the gardai at store st garda station "eleive in the presumption of innocence" "THE FREEDOM OF SPEACH" ha ha thats a joke ... how donal corcoran doing "reclaim the streets" is exactly what the gardai did, i heard he got a promotion, rewarding the ugly.
well according to forensic experts from briton brought in at the time because the state had failed to carry out tests, stated that terence underwere where soaked through with blood from the anal area to his tracksuit bottoms that has not been explained amd which the jury did not hear,
because wait for it alan... the coroner in his own words " does not have the power to call independent experts the contradict the finding of state experts..
you are really trying hard to put your own warped spin on things..
you mention a spec of blood on mr wheelocks teeshirt but failed to mention enormous amount of blood that came from his back passage.
the spec of blood found onhis teeshirt could have genuine reasons like a relative shaving ruising on his knuckles well if somebody was striking you with a baton about the body you would have bruises on your hands knuckles too.. there called defencive injuries, and you neglected to mention the bruise all over his body..pluss the reports that are going to come befor the high court..
where independent witness's can be called and can contradict state witness's.
dont forget al half that jury didn't beleive the shite that garda witness's came out with.
if it had of been a genuine suicide those jurors would of had no problem coming back with a unaminous verdict they did not.. yes your rigth i do have some faith in democracy just not your idea of democracy, .. which if the garda had there way we be all wearing barcodes. sure the care about are civil rights. MY ARSE

by lisa Tue Jul 24, 2007 17:55

i thought AL stood for "always lying"

by bill Fri Jul 27, 2007 18:50

The Garda ombudsman has just declared that they are to launch there own inquiry in to the death of terence, they stated a number of reasons for this,
there paramount reason was in the public interest, the stated also that they will investigate if an member of the gaurds on duty that day contributed to his death in a neglegent,
the also waived the six month statue of limitations for all complaints to the ombudsman,
citing a special clause in there legislation, as in the public interest.
the ombusman commision will carry out there own investigation and have powers of arrest of members of the gardai found to have acted in a alleged criminal manner.
good luck to them.

by Al Sat Jul 28, 2007 14:32

Ah Donal, Donal, Donal. Making up evidence again are you?

The blood was all explained, not one expert including the UK guys stated any blood came from an anal injury thats just lies to make your case plausable and the Wheelocks to gain support for their 'get rish of Terrence campaign'. Curious as too how the doctors and medical staff missed such 'extensive damage' isnt it?

As for bruising, again all explained. Two reasons for it, medical treatment and punching someone or something.

Now as for that speck of blood, people often use other peoples T-shirts to shave after that person died in it do they? Sure I have some evidence in the stores in work, maybe I will bring it home to shave and considering the T-shirt has been exposed as a fraud thats obviously been tampered with just how is anything gained from it going to be usable evidence?

Well now the Ombudsman is on the case and I for one cant wait for them to laugh at all these lies that are being thrown around and expose your last sad efforts for what they are. Unfortunately we all know the likes of Donal wont accept the findings unless its in his favour and it wont be because the truth is truth.

by Donal Sat Jul 28, 2007 16:48

al.al al al...you really are fighting a lost cause.. EVERBODY knows what happened terence wheelock.
everybody knows that the gardai confiscated terence wheelocks clothes befor his family even got to the hospital.
nobody doctored evidence as you suggest in your rants on
a taxpayers computer .
Because It is common knowlege, and had been aired many times, in fact there where legal arguments at the inquest in relation to the confiscation and retenion of the clothes by chief investigater oliver hanley,
who i might add by his own admissions had them stored in a locker for 15 months at blackrock garda station.
common knowlege al... as you well know.
i might also add the clothes were confiscated with out the family permission.
Furthermore it is also a fact that they still have not got those clothes back
so now your saying the wheelock family doctored evidence to try stitch up the gaurds....aaaahhh al .
i mean come on. are you for real?
journalists who have along with local TDs seen these medical reports from independent forensic experts and have published this fact about the anal bleeding and the extensive blood on terence underwere, ie.irish times , tribune , indo, mail on sunday etc etc etc.
Now if they had not of seen these reports of a anal injury they would not of published this fact in the media, we all know the power of the gardai!!! scary.
It is a fact due to previous correspondence that AL you are a gaurd yourself at store st,
you have been on many times over the last two years, you even in one post said you were there when terence was arrested, now are you one of the gaurds who gave evidence? hmmm.....promoting ones self interest
i would also like to add and for you to carry this message to
Mary Murphy, Tadgh o'leary, steve (The judo expert) mulqueen, oliver"The wolf" Hanley, Sean campbell, liz Brosnan. That independent investigators are calling to there door and if there evidence in the witness box was anything to go by....there in deep trouble. They wont fall for bad recollection or "that was a mistake" explanations.
by the way heard from a source... Mulqueen and o'leary are not getting on . only a matter of time.
slan

by observer Sat Jul 28, 2007 19:46

doaah al you've already stated that the british "quacks" where not allowed give evidence.
now your saying " not one of these experts mentioned blood" well how could they when they were not allowed give evidence in the first place?
methimks you dont know what your talking about!
brits were not allowed to give evidence that is why the jury was not made aware of the blood.

by Teresa O' D Sun Jul 29, 2007 01:10

Well, Donal, "everybody knows" that you will say anything that supports your hatred towards the Guards. And "Everybody knows" that you are in denial about anything that conflicts with your prejudices.

"Everybody knows" is nothing but an expression of your own fact-lite, agenda-driven, assumptions.

In fact, not having been present at the Garda station or with Mr Whelock before he was taken into custody, you "know" exactly nothing.

The various inquiries are being held so that the EVIDENCE, medical and otherwise, can be evinced and tested so that we may discover as much of the truth surrounding Mr Wheelock's demise as is possible to discover.

In the light of the initial Coroner's inquest, the evidence, in the opinion of a majority of the jury, indicates that Mr Wheelock committed suicide. However, because in a free society a heavy responsibility lies on the police in the manner in which they exercise their powers to detain citizens, the issue of police behaviour and procedures are now being investigated by the Garda Ombudsman.

The physical evidence (as distinct from "everybody knows") also suggests that Mr Wheelock may have been the victim of a criminal assault before coming into Garda custody. This (and not the possibility that the Gardai caused the death of Mr. Wheelock) is what prompted a minority of the inquest jury to dissent from the suicide verdict. Presumably, they felt the evidence pointed to "misadventure" arising from an earlier assault. This issue now needs to be investigated, and if true, the culprits brought to justice, or if untrue, eliminated as a cause of Mr. Wheelock's death. The public interest demands nothing less.

by Donal Sun Jul 29, 2007 15:31

evidnce of an assault befor terence came in to custody"...
tereasa i beg to differ with your analysis of the inquest and your interpretation of the jurys decision, and i will outline my reasons why
in ordinary language to you,
which i might add does not stem from a hatred of the gaurds
but merely that facts that have come befor the inquest and the sworn evidence of several gaurds who gave evidence
i would also like to add that i have family in the gaurds
I ut it to you that over the course of the inquest .
several gardai took an oath and gave sworn evidence that when they stripped searched there subject mr wheelock,
they absolutey and categorically denied that there was any bruising on my wheelocks body what soever,.
so how can you say he was assaulted befor his arrest?
Furthermore a sgt healy who was there "asked mr wheelock why he did not wear boxer shorts instead of shorts "
Garda Sean Cambell also noticed "during his sworn evidence" what he thought what looked like little cannibas burns in tracksuit bottoms during the stripsearch,
a very observant fellow indeed.
yet he was absolutely sure there was NO BRUISING on terence wheelocks body, he also publicaly stated on public record that there was absolutely NO BLOOD on his clothing either
Do you deny this tereasa?
a garda liz brosnan who was on desk duty and in charge of the custody record never recorded any marks or bruises in to the custody record,
which is required "under the treatment of persons in custody act 1987"
IT is a absolutely ridiculas thing to say the gardai held the evidence so the could carry out forensic tests.
when it is also on public record the a forensic scientist from the pheonix park a dr john norton, was instructed not to the test the blood on mr wheelocks clothes, when asked to explain this by council for mr wheelock, he merely stted that he was instructed by cheif investigater oliver"The Wolf" hanley not to test the blood on the clothing,
This was the sole reason why council for the wheelock family brought inthere own indepednet forensic scientist. who carried out tests under the supervision of state scientist in the lab at the pheonix park.
The state then requested there finding s, extradordinary!
It was only after this embarrasment that the state themselves carried out tests.
after having the clothes for 16 months at there disposal.
also marie cassidy had failed to examine photos dipicting bruises of the body that where at her disposal. claiming it had benn an oversight.
it was only then that the state carried out thee own tests, after 16 months of the clothes been compromised.
Now tell me teresa or al .. am i telling lies?
Three of the jurors did not beleive the garda version of events, its that simple

The wheelock family outside the coroners court

by O'D Sun Jul 29, 2007 22:07

Donal,

The one thing we know is that the majority of jurors, having heard the evidence, did not believe the allegations that the Wheelock family and their supporters are making. They considered that the late Mr. Wheelock died by his own hand.

The reason or reasons for the minority dissenting to the verdict are not known. There are several possibilites including the implications of the pathologist's report as motivating this dissenting view.

I would certainly prefer the pathologist's report as a source of evidence to the Garda statements. However, both are infinitly more reliable than the unsubstantiated allegations of a group of politically-motivated campaigners who weren't even there.

Incicentally, I never acused you of lying. I have no notion whether or not you believe you are telling the truth. Nor does it particularly interest me. You are entitled to your opinions and suppositions. That is all they are - nothing more. Thankfully, the inquest and Ombudsman's inquiry will deal with evidence - not opinions and suppositions.

by Donal Mon Jul 30, 2007 17:24

o 'd

well that is a lot different from your orignal posts ,
where it was suggested that terence wheelock was assaulted befor he came in to custody,
this unsubtaniated thoery has no credence nor was it backed up by what garda witness's stated in there very vague evidence
you only have to look at the garda press release by superintendent kevin donaghue who stated soon after, "there have been allegations of extensive bruising on terence, the gardai see no reason for this nor were they noticed by emergency personal at the scene.
Now EVERBODY knows there was extensive bruising on terence body, also his hands which are very visible, why the gardai state there was no bruising?
i truly beleive what the family is saying because everything they have stated has proved correct,
They have stuck to the facts and it has served them well,
They can also back up what there saying with expert witness's which none of there reports where allowed to be shown at the inquest, the jury would have come back with a different verdict had they been allowed. As for the gaurds involved in this suspicious death,
every thing the gardai has come out with, well its clear who is lying here and who is politically motivated.0.d
by the way i dont vote and i am far from politically motivated , i want people to know the truth which i can back up.
and how the hell do you know what motivated the jury? where you on it?
you have just come out with a load of speculative nonsense which you can not back up.
people on this site have suggested terence was assaulted befor he came in to custody these are lies,
go look at the garda press release, they cant have it all there own way.

by tracey Fri Aug 03, 2007 18:09 traceytow at hotmail dot com nth innercity

The Garda ombudsman is taken on this case.
I would have to say if i where in the wheelock familys shoes,
i would not settle for this,
it is welcomed as people have pointed out.
They should not get away from there campaign for an indepedent inquiry and keep clearly focused, this is the only real stage where they will get down to the nitty gritty of getting the truth of what happened that day.
after all the ombudsman can not publish there findings.
Anything less would be a betrayal of there campaign.

by irene Sun Aug 05, 2007 20:42

lest not forget the wheelock family requested pictures of their son's body after seen extensive bruising
it was the family who exposed this.
with out their efforts this would not of come to light.
as we know now the gardai categorriaclly denied any knowlege of bruising or the existence of bruising.
There efforts are to be commended.
good look to them.

by observer Mon Aug 13, 2007 17:22

The wheelock family have recruited an independent engineer, Dublin-based J Desmond Kirwin Browne, to inspect the Garda cell where terence was allegedly discovered hanging with a cord from his tracksuit bottoms attached to a steel plated alarm panel.
Having gone to Store st Garda station and examined the cell and alarm panel his findings are deeply disturbing,
he had attempted to carry out the feat of getting a lace around a steel plate flushed to the wall and incased in concrete, with his hands with a much thinner ligature, but was unable to do so.
He then requested the actual lace and attempted to recreate what is alleged to have taken place again he was unsuccessfull.
He concluded that it was highly unlikely that such a situation had taken place because of the allignment of screws behind the panel,
he also noted that there was were on the screwheads of the panel suggesting it had been opened on a previous ocassion with a tool.
An examination of the photgraps of the actual ligature dangling from the alarm panel and shown at the inquest as evidence.
He referred to these photos that in his considered opinion the photos showed no tension on the ligature,
revealing it was highly probrable that these photograps were in fact a reconstruction.
His evidence was not allowed to be heard at the inquest as with other independent reports.
This is due to the coroners jurisdiction on indepedent experts that differ from the states version of events.
This startling report throws new suspicion on the events of that day, considering the time frame put forward by gardai in there custody records, it would be claimed that after a period of sleep terence wheelock woke on and in the nest few minutes bored threw concrete with his hands managed to secured a lace around a vandal proof alarm panel and determinely attempted to take his own life out of the blue.
it seems highly unlikely.

by Al Mon Aug 13, 2007 22:25

No Donal your not telling Porkie Pies but you are neglecting many other facts about this case, twisting the evidence and asking questions that have simple answers.

You say the Gardai did not record bruising on the body, well Donal you see that bruising happened AFTER Terrence was placed in the cell.

You say that the Wheelocks had to get their own forensic expert to test the clothing but ignore the findings. If you have a shirt with blood stains on it and the medical experts can testify that its from their medical intervention then why test it? What would it, or should I say did it prove?

You say that the state requested the findings, naturally they did as the Wheelocks falsely used those findings to smear the Gardai and make allegations. Do you support suppressing evidence or non disclosure? Is it not part of our jusitce system that accusations be followed by evidence and the defendent the right to this evidence?

You say that they Gardai did not note any blood on the clothing. Well maybe thats because it originated from two sources all of which were AFTER Terrence was in custody. Terrence in the hospital and a 'blood relative'. Lets go back to this relative later.

Are you suggesting that the Gardai should have been able to see into the future and noted this in the records?

You mention an assault before being arrested, well lets remember that Marie Cassidy suggested that this could have been from an assault by terrence not on terrence. lets remember that. It seems obvious that the suggestion was that Terrence hit someone else.

4 out of 7 jurers reached a verdict of suicide. 3 did not. There reasons for this are their own but the majority of independent jurers recorded this.

Now lets look at the facts

A, All the bruising on Terrences body has been recorded as medical intervention. Independent medical experts have stated this.

B, The one bruise on Terrences hand is unclear granted but the expert opinion is a previous injury. Regardless of where and how the expert states that it did not happen while in Garda custody.

C, The blood on the clothing has been explained as medical intervention except one clear blood stain which is next.

D, The remaining blood stain is not Terrences, now this leads to only a few reasonable possibilities but two simple facts. Fact 1 is that it is not as a result of Terrences time in custody and fact 2 is that it was added after the clothing was returned.

E, Various other stains on the clothing were disinfectent. Pure and simple, no harmful items and evidence of basically no value to either side.

F, The ambulance crew states that they found Terrence outside the cell. Many ask why outside but that should be obvious to even a simple mind. The cell is small and narrow. Terrence was basically at the door. He was taken out to the main corrider (some 3 to 4 feet) for medical attention. Even someone with a basic knowledge of first aid would know that you treat people in a clear space.

G, The ambulance crew state that on their arrival they observed Gardai treating Terrence using CPR.

H, The medical experts all agree that the bruising on the neck is consistant with handing not from strangulation by another person. Medical experts can tell the difference.

Now this is all recorded fact, you may not like that but its all coming from non-Garda independent experts. The Wheelocks have 1 witness who was in another cell and couldnt see anything that was happening. He is not independent nor an expert. He was arrested with Terrence, has a criminal record and was Terrences friend. I should not need to point out that he is clearly biased.

Now we go onto these experts the Wheelocks have used. The one thats been tested in the courts to date has shown that The Wheelocks tampered with the evidence. Please dont argue this, its obvious.

The new experts, that we heard of little before the coroner court, are now being used to cast a shadow over the incident however lets remember that the forensic evidence was also used in this way by the Wheelocks. It would now appear after their failed attempt they are using the same tactic with a different set of 'supposed evidence.

At this moment in time there is no verified evidence against theGardai, only the words of a famiy that have already tampered with evidence in order to reach a false finding. Now lets be clear and honest about this. The Wheelocks placed blood on the T-Shirt. There objective was to have a forensic expert reach a finding that this blood was not medical intervention. They were unfortunate in that they didnt realise that DNA and blood samples can be pinpointed beyond a family but to an actual person.

Now having looked at the simple facts and ignored blind accusations allow me to ask queastions.

A, If there is no unanswered blood or bruising what evidence is there that the Gardai assaulted Terrence?

B, If the medical evidence states hanging and not strangulation then why believe he was murdered by the Gardai?

C, Why and how did another persons blood get on the T-shirt after Terrences death?

D, Why did this person, who owns this blood, not tell the forensic scientist about this blood?

E, Why have the Wheelocks not released the relatives name or how the blood got there?

F, How long after the incident did the 'independent witness' examine the cell?

G, How can we verify this new evidence? Has it been tested or verified? Has it been released to the public?

I could go on Donal. There are a number of issues I have about your comments above, one being that you know Gardai but regardless these are the facts. There is little or no evidence supporting the Wheelocks. They have allegations only with no evidence supporting it. On the other hand we do know that rather than protect their sons clothing they tampered with it. Now this too me suggests they want revenge and/or compensation more than justice. I cannot prove this but unlike the Wheelocks and some here it seems, I require more than an accusation to find someone guilty.

Simple put, all the proven evidence supports suicide and the Ombudsman will also find this because its the truth. Sadly I see people are already planning to ignore this 3rd investigation.

by linda Mon Aug 13, 2007 23:10

your comments are outlandish and outrageous regarding the wheelock family
who as you put it "want to stitch up the gaurds" for money.
are you for real you have stated your a garda at store st you have a cheek to youse this outlet to smear a young mans family for your own and your colleages agenda.
it is absolutely ridiculas to suggested the family fabricated evidence in the way of adding blood to his clothes.
it was aired at the inquest that a detective seized terence wheelock clothes and have retained them ever since, in fact they are still in there possesion. The family where not even in the hospitlal when they where seized having been sent to the wrong hospital.
ambulance crew?
one ambulance man gave evidnece his evidence was vague because he was the driver and was not hands on himself.
do you honstly think your mates would put up with such a senario.
and your piping on about indepedent experts giving evidence is completely false and a down right lie.
it has been stated publicly in countless media outlets that this was not the case on account of the coroners jurisdiction on such matters.
it was the gardai who with held evidence the wheelock family had to go to court to gain access to forensic testing of there relatives own clothes, due to the relentless objections of a senior detective . the tests where granted when it was revealed at the coroners court that the state had failed to carry out simple tests.
as for the extensive injuries to this young man body, if thats "medical intervention" as you suggest, you must really be having a sick laugh.
you have your agenda which is very easy for everyone to see.
you are close to this case,
which from this assumption i can only draw the conclusion that you have a vested interest in smearing terence wheelocks family
it is obvious you want to tell lies and it is not even worth engaging you at this piont,
how can one argue the piont with a blatant liar.
The ombudsman is not a third public inquiry its an internal investigation by foreign police men whos findings cannot be made public.
a full indepedent public inquiry will address the issues you have raised.
is this not in the interest of the public and the gardai, if there is no wrong doing brings this on.
This is all the wheelock family are asking for no more no less.
i say they are entitled to one its obvious something is very wrong here.

by jill Fri Oct 05, 2007 17:50

some very serious issues need to be adressed in the wheelock case , up the ombudsman can get to the bottom of this, with the wall of silence that exists with in the gardai.
good look to the family of the deceased.

by Franko Sat Oct 27, 2007 16:34

Did Wheelock have any previous convictions or any criminal record?

by G Sat Oct 27, 2007 20:12

I don't understand the relevance of your question Franko. Are you suggesting that if he had previous convictions or a 'criminal record' that it's ok for the cops to kill him.

by teaman4 Sat Oct 27, 2007 22:00

The answer to each question is:

1. Yes, he had lots of criminal convictions.

2. No, the "cops" didn't kill him.

The sources of this information are the "Pulse" and the finding of the inquest jury.

by Response Tue Oct 30, 2007 14:20

G ... why are you getting upset when someone asks the question around TW's criminal record? It seems that some people on this board are only content to answer/discuss the questions that would attempt to implicate the Gardaì. There was a considerible record there ... just like some of the other members of the family!!!

by paul Mon Nov 12, 2007 14:18

considerable record?
it seems fairly obvious if some one had access to the pulse system on this site
they are obviously cops
who probrably have a vested interest in this case
remember al is ip address was traced to store st garda station,
this is a smear on the family
a public inquiry in to the death of terence wheelock is the only way to find out what happened terence wheelock in to the tragic and suspicous events of that day.
the inquest was the first if its kind to have a split jury in a "suicide" in the history of the state,

following from this the garda ombudsman launched a major investigation with team of polce officers from a round the world to investigate the circumstances of his death
in its first ever "public interest" case this is at present on going.
the inquest and the garda evidence was vague and did not answer any of the familys many question and inconsistencies in the garda;s version of events.
the jury was split 4/3 very unsuall and made a number of recommendations on the treatment of suspects and recommended that all garda stations be fitted with cctv in the cells and corrriders.
these recommedations have yet to be carried out.

by G Mon Nov 12, 2007 20:45

'Response' - I'm not in the least bit upset. I will however repeat - what relevance does Franko's question have. Unless of course you're implying that it's ok for the cops to kill someone if they have a 'criminal record'. When 'teaman4' was checking the Pulse system, he might also have checked the penalties for each of the convictions - which one exactly has the death penalty as punishment?

by Anthony - indymedia.ie tech group Mon Nov 12, 2007 22:30

remember al is ip address was traced to store st garda station

Al's IP address was not traced back to Store St. garda station. The IP address monitor is only turned on in cases of serious abuse of this site which didn't apply to Al whose posts kept to the editorial guidelines (for the most part). Al was always up-front about his occupation and place of work in his posts on indymedia.ie

by nel Mon Nov 19, 2007 14:21

"al has always been upfront about his occupation"
that may be so, with regards to the injuries inflicted on terence wheelock
he has not been so up front.
going as far as to say that there where no injuries on him when he was taken to hospital
stating that he was in store st when young wheelock was taken in.
even claiming that the family planted evidence and al
is a well document liar on his posts
and is clearly using this site to smear and cloudy the waters in this case
the reason to protect his pals in store st.
al has always been upfront ha ha

by foxey - hardwicke..street Sat Dec 29, 2007 23:35

al dosent seem to care about the facts in this case at all or the fact terence wheelock was murdered he is just hell bent on protecting his friends or work mates or whatever he wants to call them bottom line i think your a mad grass no supergrass charls bowden probably never had a patch on you i wonder what they let you away with for your valubale information drugs let you off with certain charges maybe kiddy fiddiling so much faith in the garda i know what they do to people in their custody i was subjected to beatings and left close to death first hand but u wouldent know anything about that would you snitch how do you sleep at night you twat go on squeaky

by rory Sun Dec 30, 2007 15:51

i understand you frustration foxey, i know that the fellas in store st , fitzgibbon st and all the other police station that they regularly dish out beating and break the law.
name calling is not the way further .
i agree thqt something sinister happened the late terence wheelock and i respect his familys efforts to seek the truth from this machine called the system.
but your comments are not helpful
respectfully.
these people who where involved in this younsters death will reap what they have sown.

by Laurence O' Toole Fri Jan 04, 2008 17:33

It's understandable that gardai confiscate his clothes if the clothes are evidence in an alleged murder. They can't hand back the clothes to be further contaminated.

Why don't the wheelocks hire a solicitor and take out a civil case against the gardai, and then have the clothes independently examined??? Or is this not covered by free legal aid?

Also,"Dr Maureen Smith from the Forensic Science Laboratory told the court she was unable to generate a DNA profile from the tissue sample she was given from the post mortem. Using blood samples, she determined that blood found on Mr Wheelock's t-shirt was not his blood, but most likely that of a close relative, a matter she said that would normally be further investigated ".
Who is the family member and how did the blood get there???

It's well known that the people from that part of Dublin have an inherent hatred for the gardai. I also believe that on the day in question Terence was arrested for stealing a car and he had two outstanding bench warrants.

None of the accusations made against the gardai in this thread have been backed up or referenced by the people making the accusations. More than likely it's made up heresay while sitting at the bar in Noctors Pub on a Thursday morning.

Have a look at the wikipedia page for Terence Wheelock.

by Al Sat Jan 05, 2008 04:01

Wow, I havent posted since August but yet your still all interested in me. Im honoured. Either you love me or I have hit a nerve.

Also many thanks to Anthony of Indymedia who once again has to step in and point out a blatant fabrication made by a user of the site. I hope the user who made a deliberate false statement has the good manners to keep quiet now that the admin itself has slapped their wrist. Also as pointed out my job and station are no secret and never have been so what difference it would make if I was using a PC in Store Street I dont know.

As for Wheelock, well I have said my piece a dozen times now, clearly people have decided to believe me, not believe me or make their own minds up while some here just spout the same rubbish over and over. Im tired answering it and besides, it seems others also feel the need to ask the same questions I have so you can refuse to answer them for a while.

So anyway, keep ranting and raving, keep being blind but Im going to sit back and relax because the Ombudsman is investigating now so its in their hands and all the posts in the world wont change their outcome which I am confident will exonerate the Gardai and show the latest set of lies to be just that.

Now Im off to look up the definition of 'independent' and see if Doctors in A&E, a forensic scientist, pathologist and fireman are in fact secret Gardai or 'independent'. Who knows maybe theres a secret handshake I dont know about either.

Good night,
Al

by Jim Davis Sun Jan 06, 2008 19:53

Does anyone have an idea of the timeline on the ombudsman's inquest?

by geraldo Mon Jan 07, 2008 15:40

al give it arrest you've been posting treads on this site since terence wheelock was in a coma you told blatant lies then .
like there was no bruising which turned out to be false.
you were there from the get go you are a ban garda in store st and your identity is known.
you have the cheek to get on this forum having attended the inquest of mr wheelock.
you have a vested interest in this case and you opinions though you are entitled to them should be taking with a pinch of salt.
by the way where you at the royal dublin hotel in november ?