Food Not Bombs in Galway under pressure - call for support

by Neasa Thu Aug 16, 2007 16:40

Congratulations to FNB on a job well done … and … if it helps at all, it DOES become easier to deal with these bureaucratic moments. I second Charles B's suggestion that you make use of your elected representatives.

To Michael Joyce - I think your comment about this CW 'only doing his job' is not only inane but unthinking. Think about Hannah Arendt's Post World War II investigation of Eichmann. Instead of confronting a monster, she found herself interviewing and researching a bureaucrat/technocrat and realised how banal 'evil' really is. Just people 'just doing their jobs.' My point is not that this warden is 'evil', but simply to ask you to think more about where, when and against whom he decides to deploy his CW 'authority'.

by Daf Wed Aug 15, 2007 14:08

Firstly it's unusual that a warden was out on a Sunday. However I know from my experience doing stalls and the experience of street vendors I know that the wardens are never usually out after six or seven. Stick with the revised time for future events and don't let the little Hitlers get to you. The Guards aren't going to be bothered following up on it anyway. Or you could start an organisation called bombs not food and see which one they would rather you did.

by irish activist in NZ Mon Aug 06, 2007 09:19

Similar situation happened in Christchurch New Zealand,
Maybe you could check this out for some advise,

http://indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/72360/index.php

by dunk Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:53

If the situation wosens why not ask for support by getting people out as individuals or groups, however officially or unofficially they want to organise, and from that get everyone giving out free food, organising OPEN picnics, till it gets to such a state of ridicoulness that the city council is forced to allow FNB to continue. Perhaps, if there is a chance of fines or whatever in meantime, then perhaps a little theatre of the opressed event on the streets might help communicate the situation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatre_of_the_Oppressed
http://www.theatreoftheoppressed.org/en/

best of luck

dunk

heres a little piece from the history of FNB, arrests, community support and dealing with unfriendly councils in San Fran, US:

In the late 1980s, a second chapter of Food Not Bombs was formed in San Francisco. This chapter soon encountered tension with the police and fought two "Soup Wars" with the city's mayors, Art Agnos and Frank Jordan. Agnos initiated the first confrontation by using riot police to shut down a Food Not Bombs serving. The group was persistent, however, and despite being arrested hundreds of times, managed to continue serving food on the street. Their use of the media's coverage of the altercation allowed them to gain community support.

from:
Food Not Bombs, From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_Not_Bombs

by Charles B. Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:08

In fairness, I would rather eat some fine vegan food from someone who was trying to put across the idea that we as a society should shower all and sundry with couscous and other epicurean delights rather than bombs, than someone looking to make a quick buck from lashing chips n' burgers out of a stinking chip van.
Just because one has a licence doesn't necessarily mean that they are less likely to give you an upset, now does it? Besides if anyone was to fall sick after having a day out in Galway, wouldn't it be more likely that it was the dodgy water and not the concientious peace/food/love vendor which was the cause??

by Moopheus Thu Jul 19, 2007 00:17

You seem somewhat naive neo! :)

You could take the red pill:

Go out on a stand sometime in galway, or for the "total perspective vortex", try a visit to rossport. It's a rude awakening if you are an idealist but you'll see how our so called democracy REALLY works.

or you could swallow the blue pill, vote fianna fail, and believe everything on rte and in the independent / daily mail like most of the rest of society :(

best of luck...M

by ri tarado - food not bombs galway Wed Jul 18, 2007 21:36 tropicalisto85 at yahoo dot com dot br

to michael joyce:
and if you go on a picnic, you need to get a licence for that too?
we're not giving away food, for we are not a charity. we're having a picnic with our old and new met friends. how about that. just sharing.

to everyone else:
thanks for your support and really worthy advices. so far we're going to get rid of the table and do it 'picnic' style - put down a blanket, throw few cushions around and here we go.
and, remember, this sunday it's 7pm.

thanks to all.

by Sources say Wed Jul 18, 2007 20:46

There is no law against giving away food. You do not need a permit from anyone to give away food.

There are laws about how we use our public spaces. These are mostly sensible - not causing an obstruction for example to other people wanting to use the street or footpath. I am sure you won't be doing that. Unless your food is so popular long queues form..... Public spaces belong to you as much as to anyone. You do not need to be licenced to use them within reasonable limits.

Your work is charitable in the best sense.

The Galway warden and his employer should think again.

by We the People Wed Jul 18, 2007 13:01

I just came accross this thread and would like to put my 1c in if I may.

It is a noble cause indeed and it must be abolished , according to the controllers.

Always carry a Camera , a Recorder , a Notebook and Pen and a copy of Bunreacht - to be displayed for 'them' to see. It does'ent matter if you believe in it or not , Use it as a Tool to safeguard yourself and your People, (check Articles40 - 44) Fundamental Rights.

If you continue to be 'mobile' you cannot be done for Loitering. Put wheels on the Table and if the mob arrives (for some reason with a Garda) , just keep moving your feet left to right.

As regards getting into the trap of ......asking for permission or a Licence. or whatever , No. You then enter 'their' Legal arena. Don't fall into that trap. You me and the rest of us i.e.the People , have a given right to do what we do for the benefit of others.

If this 'Lackey' approaches with questions or demands, photo/record him and write down EVERYTHING including time and date (most important). Let him see you doing this. Bad Attitiude Lackeys don't like being recorded in any way. When he realises that he is on the front line and not his Boss, he may simply.....dissapear, forever. Nobody wants to put their position or themselves on the line for a situation they do not understand and then cop on that the're being used.

Ask him ,on those or what Authority is he acting. Ask him for his Lackey I.D.
If he says it's the Law that you cannot do what you are doing, then ask him to get a Law officer to show you the Law. Ask him for his name and job description and his Boss's name.

GOLDEN RULE---------- Say nothing and keep saying it. You are not obliged to give him your name or any other information as long as you keep out of the 'arena.'

Keep mobile.

by N - Food Not Bombs Galway Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:34

This Sunday Food Not Bombs Galway will operate at the later time of 7pm due to the Arts Festival parade. We're asking local activists to come out and support us against pressure from a community warden's attempts to shut us down. So that's Lynch's Castle (AIB Bank) Shop St at 7pm this Sunday 22nd July.
A disgruntled community warden is trying to send Food Not Bombs packing from Galway's streets. See the original article for more details:
http://indymedia.ie/article/83461
(thanks to all who commented with their advice and support!)

While this guy may be only 'doing his job', we believe that to prevent the distribution of free food is ridiculous, and will be going ahead as usual, except for this Sunday's time change to 7pm. Please come and support if you can!

by N - Food Not Bombs Galway Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:25

We've had to change this Sunday's event to 7pm, as Shop St will be closed for the arts festival parade.

Thanks everybody for your helpful comments! We've had a novel idea to get around the table issue (though councillor Catherine Connolly told us that there's actually no law against it). Need to find out more about the legislation regarding food permits. There's practically no chance anyone could get sick from our food as it's all vegan and checked beforehand (not that that gets us out of any permit restrictions that might apply).

Hope to see some of ye on Sunday, we'll show this warden that FNB are no pushover.

by Ecotopian Wed Jul 18, 2007 09:22

Just for information when Ecotopia was held in Co. Clare in 2002 Clare County Council granted some sort of health certificate to the festival. They sent health inspectors to the camp kitchen on two or three occasions before the event started and eventually were satisfied with the hygiene standards there. One of the key points though was that vegan food was been given out which "goes off" much less quickly than meat or dairy products. The bitchin kitchin crew would know more.

by Michael Joyce Tue Jul 17, 2007 15:43

Under current health and safety regulations a licence is now required for anything to do with preparing and selling/giving away food, if one of the punters gets food poisioning they can sue the HSE who give out the licences. If you check all the people involved in selling food in any town in the Country they all have licences and are checked on a regular basis by HSE inspectors.

The warden is only doing his job and fair play to him for doing it, you may think your food is fine but you dont know if it could be infected by some bug.

by anon Tue Jul 17, 2007 14:11

I like Charles B thinking, the warden is not a food safety regulator afaik, wait to see if he actually gets a somebody from food safety to come down. It would be good to find evidence of other people marketing food on the streets. Your not going to be able to adhere to every food safety law that they can think of so you'll have to show you it doesn't apply to you while doing your best to be clean. (It would be educational to know what you are doing for others if that dosen't give them a list to get at you with.) Get yourself a circular table and don't stand behind it, turn your FNB self service sharing as its meant to be, allow passersby to serve themselves, if not doing so already, a vague difference but will change the appearance, How about spreading rug at the edge of one of the raised bits of the park. Highlight that the very type of food your serving and promoting, vegatarian etc is less prone to giving people problems.

by Charles B. Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:36

Community wardens are usually only authorised under a couple of pieces of specific legislation, namely the Litter Pollution Act 1997 and maybe the Waste Management Act 1996-2007. If they approach you again, ask them under what section of which Act FNB may be committing an offence, as you would like to know, and would like to ensure that you are not committing an offence. There are sections in the LP ACt which relate to the distribution of advertising material (relates to Bye-Laws which may be in place), and also to not taking adequate measures to prevent litter in the vicinity of a mobile outlet, but you should be able to counter this by ensuring that you have a bin there beside you as you stated.
As far as I can tell, you are doing absolutely nothing wrong. As for the threat in relation to serving food or smoking, he's bluffing, he hasn't been authorised under the appropriate legislation, or if he is, he's the 1st CW to have that authorisation. This is normally a role of the HSE Environmental Health Officers. If he keeps at it, then give one of your elected reps. a call. Mr. O'Brolochain may be willing to have a word in the ear of the CWs manager, to tell them to lay off. All contact numbers of the GCC councillors are available here:
http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/YourCouncil/Counci...bers/
FNB is a great idea and shouldn't allow itself to be bullied into submission, stand up and don't be afraid of them, unless they are very specific about what offence you are committing, they're just trying to scare you off. And don't think that contacting your local councillor is a cop out, thats what they are there for, and will probably be only too happy to make a couple of calls on your behalf.
Keep us posted anyway, and if there is any further assistance that I can provide, I will certainly try my utmost.
No Pasaran!

by Seán Ryan Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:47

Couple of ideas.

Read the legislation fully so that you understand how to evade it. For example: if the legislation states 'serving food,' 'preparing food.' etc. get whomsoever you are giving food to to stir the pot, they are then preparing food for themselves, which is most definitely not unlawful.

If the law cannot be 'gotten around,' learn all that you can about it. Is it a summary crime that you are being accused of? If not you are entitled to a jury trial, and there isn't a jury in the country that would convict you of this crime, provided that you can present your case to them. If you defend yourself, this should be very possible.

Food Not Bombs is a very noble cause, don't let the toe rags push you around. Answer no questions whatsoever, other than giving your name and address to a Garda if requested. As well as taking photos of anyone harassing you, record audio too. Always ask to examine the ID of anyone who bothers you and record pertinent details.

With regard to a table or a stall, it would be a good idea to avoid anything that can be labeled as a stall, for obvious reasons.

Best of luck and keep the faith.

by SoMuchForDemocracy Tue Jul 17, 2007 00:19

while doing an anti factory farming / shop ethically / animal welfare stand in galway. I was told that among other things, I was in contravention of the road traffic act and that people might hurt themselves on my table so I needed insurance. I engaged the officer, pointed out calmly and logically how difficult it would be for anyone but a completely drunk acrobat to damage themselves on the table in question. I asked him if he could give me an example of how this could happen .He had difficulty concocting a reasonable scenario. I then asked him about his views on what we were saying.
He eventually admitted that what we were doing was educational, he didn't think factory farming was a good thing and eventually let us continue for another hour or so. he wasn't really a bad guy but it was clear that he was under pressure to do his job on any nasty anti business anarchists he came across. I also asked him "off the record" if we were doing something a bit more business friendly, did he think our rather civilised and informative stand would really be all that much of a problem. Candidly he admitted "probably not".

As he was doing his job harassing me, lots of sandwich boards were clearly banging into peoples legs with their sharp corners left right and centre, but they were advertising businesses so nothing was said to them.

People pay no attention to seemingly harmless legislation which purports to protect people from street nuisances and food poisoning, but this is what it is really for. Harassing activists. Not sure what can be done about serving food. The EU wanted to kill off street markets as they take business away from the big supermarkets so they brought in all these daft food regulations and we all remember their sneaky attempt to take away market rights in all the towns across the country not too long ago. Also the draconian bye laws galway co. council narrowly failed to bring in a few years back. They are not far behind DCC in their hatred of public dissent in galway. I would suggest you become very familiar with food serving legislation before proceeding. Saturday market people may be able to help a bit. it helps if you buy something.

The fact is, with food, many more people are at risk if large scale operations fuck up than from a small operator does so. And they do fuck up no matter how many regulations they pretend they adhere to. Examples of large scale e-coli food contamination are not uncommon.

It's ironic that the council are giving you grief over food hygiene when the entire water supply has literally gone to shit under their watch.

It's all a big scam to squeeze out the little guy and discourage local produce markets which are bad for larger scale free market scumbag global economics

My 2c worth:
----------------
Be polite but don't answer any questions you don't want to. You don't actually have to give a warden any info. Try to push him onto the back foot by asking him questions (politely but assertively) instead. make sure to ask him exactly what part of what legislation you are in contravention of. Write it down. Ask him can he write down exactly what he is accusing you of doing wrong and sign it, and if you can you take his picture. Even if he says no, it's an indication that he does not feel he is acting honestly and will put his own face / name to his actions. you can also produce it in court.,

Best to say that it is a communal effort with nobody in charge. They like to single people out to send nasty letters to and pressure into giving up. I said it was a group effort with nobody in charge and pointed him to a website address. There was no identifying info on the website. He accepted this.

It's harder to bring charges against a group of folks with equal responsibility. Stick together. if a garda comes along then same thing but you have to give a name./address Be polite always even if you want to kill the bastards(hell, while you are discussing your crime, offer them a tasty free snack :). if they are dumb enough to accept, it weakens their food safety case somewhat!) Ask for name, badge number, take photos, round the corners of your stand (to show you made efforts to prevent any possible injury!) and put up a clear notice asking people nicely to return their plates when finished / Patrons eat at their own risk etc.

It all goes to prove you are a responsible citizen if things go further. there is a good guide to dealing with the gardai posted on indy.

you should ask about the procedure for holding a stand with the local gardai. You may be able to get prior permission from them which might make things easier. A polite visit to mill street (dress neat, shave, no dreds!) can get you further than being confrontational.

Best of luck. keep up the good work.

by Clare Mon Jul 16, 2007 23:08 Dublin

Hopefully someone else will give ye some proper concrete advice but this is my opinion.
Well I think the first thing is not to bother thinking that you will find some loophole in a law that is probably a bit bull shity to begin with.

Forget the politicians. Forget the food safety laws - you are giving away food for free so maybe they don't apply anyway.
Ignore the warden guy with his messed up views on what you "can" and "can't" do.

Big companies give away free soft drinks and different food things all around the country. Think about the advertising shit and free stuff given away that will end up on the streets during the arts festival, air show and race week. What you are doing creates about .001% of the rubbish that stuff makes. TJ and friends are afraid of your politics, they find sparkly, multi-national sponsored crap much less threatening. Remember they think they are in charge and don't want that position undermined.

+ Obviously you should do your best to avoid creating any litter.
+ You could use wraps or some sort of pancake/chapatti thing to serve food and that way the plate is eaten too (that will depend if you can get them cheaply or make them cos I know they can be pricey to buy).
+ Have one of you going around picking up the rubbish in the area regularly and when you are finished. Or if some people come regularly you could ask them to bring their own little lunch box or something to take the food?
+ Bring a big box of plates that people have to return when they are finished. You could also bring a basin and some (precious in Galway) water to wash and reuse the plates there and then.
+ Make burger/falafel types things that you give out in napkins (less waste?).
+ You could set up your stall in a shopping trolley that way if you get hassle you can just move on a bit (I know that is far from ideal

The gardai/warden types tend to thrive on bullying others and power tripping. The shit thing is they usually win as they have the entire system on their side. I'd be surprised if that system (politicians, permits from the council) will ever give you much support whatsoever. That warden sounds an absolute bully, threatening you all like that. The Simon community give out food (soup and sandwiches) in Galway I think and I'm sure they don't have that whole food safety certificate thing - you could talk to them?

Just keep up the good work on the streets giving away yummy food. Keep doing what you are doing and knowing that ye are right not the warden with too much time and not much sense.
Food not bombs is about an alternative way of living and thinking. I'm sorry to be negative but in opinion and experience trying to get official permits or letters from politicians is a waste of time. You are definitely correct to call for support the next day you are doing this, the more the merrier and the stronger you will all feel together. I hope you a big crowd as it is definitely deserved.

Fuck them all, lets just do it ourselves.
Solidarity from Dublin.