Labour in West in serious trouble

by Jan OR Sat Aug 04, 2007 19:39

Keavney expressed reservations over the current leadership of the party !!! Is that an understatement.

Tim Mulcahy the leading vote catcher in South Sligo resigned over a year ago.

Then Garret McDaid the party spokesperson for South Leitrim left and joined the Greens. He was General Election candidate for the Greens.

Then Gabrial McSharry and the entire North Leitrim organisation resigned and are now community-independent.

Councillor Catherine Connolly from Galway City then resigned and stood as an independent in the election getting a respectable vote and saving her deposit.

The former Sligo Councillor Brian Scanlon resigned and joined the Greens just before the election. With a shoestring budget, 50 posters and a tiny number of canvassers he almost beat Rabbittes candidate the ex blueshirt Jim mcGarry. (McGarry spent in excess of 15,000 Euro on his campaign and despite receiving the total support of SIPTU, with John McCarrick the Sligo SIPTU secretary as his Director of Elections, McGarry lost his deposit)

The party standard bearer and former Sligo-Letirm TD Declan Bree also resigned from the party before the general election.

Following on that the Sligo East Ward branch of the party and the North Sligo branch voted to disolve leaving only three branches remaining in the constituency.

Now Cllr Colm Keavney, the only Labour representative on Galway County Council is gone.

Who is left? McGarry the former blueshirt in Sligo. Cllr John Mee the pro-Shell councillor in Mayo and Tom Costello, Billy Cameron and Colette Connolly in Galway City (I hear that Connolly is semi detached from the party having supported her sisters campaign in the General Election).

The current leadership and their so called development officers have made a dogs dinner of the organisation in the West. Meltdown is an apt description.

by Hurler on Ditch - definitely no party Sun Aug 05, 2007 04:25

Historically since the end of the 1920s we've had a two-party parliamentary system, with intermittent Labour + socially based small groupings forming, getting elected and using their balance of numbers to cobble fragile coalitions or - as in recent decades since the formation of the now terminal PDs - using their small numbers to keep FF in government. In the 1930-1948 parliamentary period FF was de facto but never nominally the left-of-centre governing party (supporting massive public authority housing development, marginally improved welfare spending, support for small and medium farming) versus the even more socially conservative big-farmer/city professionals-supported FG. De Valera took his popular economic ideas from papal encyclicals and from instinctive national protection ideology. Labour, because it had opted out of electoral politics in the 1918/1921 period of national crisis, came to be seen as dubious on the national question, and farmers and small town bourgeoisie saw it as dubious on economics. [Today middle Ireland would view Labour as dubious on the general question of social culture.] Labour since the 1960s has made successful strides to attract intellectuals and other worldwise professionals into its steering ranks, while losing the influential involvement of trades unionists and other sectors of manual working class. (Significantly, ITGWU leaders like the late Michael Mullen felt at ease when dealing with top FF leaders - ref. Mullen's brokering role in the deal between Tony Gregory and Charlie Haughey.) FF has taken bits and pieces from the social conscience of post-WWII christian democracy (although never calling itself christian democratic), while FG of the Declan Costello time during the 1960s baulked at the suggestion that it call itself the social democratic party. For cultural reasons Labour, which embraced social democracy in the 1960s, never became a mass party and failed "to break the mould" (PD Dessie O'Malley's phrase) and upset the FF-FG parliamentary apple table. Groupuscule parties like Clann na Tamhluin, NPDs (Noel Browne), and currently the soft-left Greens may come and go. Our social and intellectual national culture does not show signs of significantly thinking outside that political box. And hello anarchist readers - sorry you still feel left out of the game.

by Lampoon Mon Aug 06, 2007 14:02

This McGarry bashing is getting old and redundant. After the Greens did the biggest political con-job on the electorate in recent history, Brian Scanlon's vote will return to his paltry showing in the last locals.
The Greens have sold out on most of the core issues they campaigned on. Brian Scanlon is now in a party that supports the use of Shannon by the US military and supports co-location, bin charges, water charges, the destruction of Tara and the fiasco that is Corrib.
The latent Green vote which even Donald Duck would mopped up had he ran, wont be there for Scanlon after this. A rather short-lived political comeback this farce of a Green candidate will turn out to be I'm sure.

Bree spat his dummy out of the pram after he got hoodwinked by the party locally and lost his 'standard bearing' position (which had been in steady decline for a decade) to 'wee' jimmy.

Connolly did the same. Had both Bree and Connelly been given the ticket they would still be in the Labour Party. Nobody west of the Shannon doubts that for one second. This exposes all the political principled hogwash coming from Bree as the opportunist rubbish it is. He is very bitter at having his political career curtailed and any chance of a Dail seat (however slim) effectively ended.

Keavney didn't leave over any political ideology he may have had with the party either.
He left for opportunist reasons as well. He may well end up in F Fail. Not much of a loss for Labour in that respect now is it.

Gabriel McSharry again left for personal reasons which have no bearing on the Labour party politically or its leadership despite was 'handlebars' Bree will have you believe.

Mulcahy (who actually approached McGarry to join Labour because of his popular vote within his ward) is no loss either.

There is no story here other the fantasist notions of a failing political dinosaur that the Labour Party will collapse without him. Odd though that the party numbers have actually risen in the town now he's gone

Labour had a bad election nationally not just the west but they are hardly in meltdown. That honour belongs to the PDs and most likely the greens in the next election as F Fails mudguard

5 councillors resigning is hardly front page news considering its roughly 1% of the councillors Labour has anyway. Move on nothing to see here. : )

by MichaelPatten Mon Aug 06, 2007 15:57

Who is this guy lampoon? Is he really a labour party member or is he just having us on

Defending a former blueshirt like McGarry and suggesting that all is well with the Labour Party in the West.

He says that party numbers have risen!

I dont know what he´s smoking but its clearly pretty good stuff.

Labour in the West is well and truely f....ed with Rabbitte and co.

It looks like lampoon will be last to get off the titanic.

by Lampoon Mon Aug 06, 2007 16:35

Ah Michael, will ye catch yerself on.

I wasn't exactly singing McGarrys praises was I. I seen him as a necessary evil to get rid of Bree.
Labour in the long run will be better off with the opportunists jumping ship.
No meltdown though, East or West of the Shannon but Bree was always one for exaggerating.

Oh and Michael, check the Labour register for Sligo. I think you'll find the membership has indeed risen since Bree left.

Get the facts and stop listening to bitter has-beens.

I wont be adding anymore to this nonsense baseless thread any more, nobodies interested, nobody cares.

by JJ Glas Tue Aug 07, 2007 09:04

Lampoon is very touchy when his friend Jimmy mcGarry is criticised. According to Lampoon, Keavney, Connolly, Bree, McSharry, Mulcahy, McDaid etc, are all out of step.

Is it not the case that Brian Scanlon is hated by the McGarry camp because he humiliated McGarry in the general election. He is particularly hated because he highlighted the fact that McGarry had voted for bin charges, for privatisation and in support of the US in Iraq.

Scanlon also embarrased the local SIPTU Secretary John McCarrick when he highlighted the fact in the local media that McGarry had signed in for a Council meeting during a Strike by Council workers, when Scanlon, Bree and others were participating in the workers picket outside the Council offices
McCarrick was hell bent on having his friend McGarry as the Labour candidate and he was livid when Scanlon exposed the scabbing incident.

Since Scanlon joined the Greens he has taken a principled position and had no hesitation in ctiticising the deal with FF both in the national media and the local media.

by Lampoon Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:06

This is getting ridiculous, nobodies touchy. It would just suit Bree and co to think that people would be touchy about it. Like I said I never sang McGarry's praises so where you're getting the idea that I'd be touchy about you criticising him is anyones guess. One things for sure it is not accurate and clearly demonstrates your inability to read posts.

As for Scanlon, will you don't make me laugh.

The Greens treachery is clear for all to see. They are in Government. Brains Scanlon is in a party that is in government and agreed a programme for Government that includes support for Shannon, co-location and the destruction of Tara.
Those are facts. Flinging sh!t at McGarry wont change that. If Scanlon was really principled he'd leave the greens, but he wont will he. It represents his best chance at getting a council seat so principles be damned.

You guys are fooling no-one if you think all this guff and bluster has anything at all to do with principle.

Here are the facts.

The Greens sold out. Do you deny that?
By remaining in the Greens, Scanlon is a party to that sell out. Do you deny that?
Bree and Connolly would still be in the Labour party had they been given the nomination in the GE. Do you deny that?
Keavney left over a dispute regarding a Regional Directors position. He would still be in Labour had he been given the job. Do you deny that?

Only in the vivid imaginations of some very bitter has-beens does 5 cllrs resigning (3 of which where clearly and undeniably opportunistic/careerists moves) constitute a meltdown within Labour. Do you deny that?

Labour membership in Sligo has increased since Bree left. Do you deny that?

No opinion piece, journalist column or MMS article anywhere in the country has even hinted at the slightest possibility that Labour are in Crisis, Meltdown or anything else Bree and his dwindling band of sycophants would have you believe.

Labour had a poor Election no-ones doubts or denies that. But the reasons for the poor showing are well known within the party and have absolutely nothing to do with a few disgruntled careerists. I knew Bree had a jumped up opinion of himself, but this is ridiculous.

by aristotle Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:59

The decline of Labour has nothing to do with personalities and everything to do with the changing face of Irish society.

The decline of Labour in the West (and almost everywhere else in Ireland) is due to increased prosperity in the West (and everywhere else). The days of socialist policies and the confiscatory taxation which financed them (and consequential mass-unemployment) are thankfully past. The vast majority are now in productive employment. Working people in real jobs see Labour's tax-and-spend policies as a threat to their well-being. The only people who still support labour as a group are our over-paid public "servants" who see Labour's statist policies as protecting their overpaid sinecures, unique job-security, and gold-plated pensions (paid for by taxing people who have none of these perks).

And sure, we want a better health-service, but people have copped on to the reality that throwing more and more tax-euros at doctors and nurses is not going to improve the national health. France, the nation with the best health-service in the world manages with half the nurses per-capita, and doctors who manage on considerably lower "compensation" for their input. Needless to say, the well-paid medical professions are over-represented in the ranks of Labour's elected representatives, party officials, and supporters.

And what of the vestigial underclass who live outside the mainsteam economy? Most don't vote anyway, and those that do probably don't vote Labour but split their votes among the hodge-podge of fringe parties.

by JJ Glas Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:37

Lampoon talks about the Greens treachery - can you believe that a McGarry supporter would talk about treachery.

Brian Scanlon has take a principled position since the first day he joined the Greens - just as he did during his years in the Labour Party. He has joined others on the left of the party and opposed and spoken out against the Green deal with FF. That is a matter of public record.

During his years in the Labour Party Scanlon was never afraid to speak out on and take action on issues he felt were important.

Everyone remembers the stance he took during the strike at the County Council. When McGarry and other councillors signed in for the Council meeting it was Scanlon and only a few others who refused to pass the picket.

When the SIPTU Secretary John McCarrick was encouraging the Labour Party to accept McGarry into membership he omitted to tell head office about the scabbing issue.

When the matter was eventually raised at a meeting of the Labour Executive after McGarry had joined the party, Jack O´Connor said that the matter had been fully investigated and that the allegation that mcGarry had scabbed was incorrect.

What OConnor failed to tell the Executive was that the so called investigation was carried out by McGarry´s buddy John McCarrick (who had actually introduced mcGarry to the Labour partry)

O Connor also failed to inform the Executive that the comprehensive investigation consisted of only one person being interviewed by McCarrick.

None of the other striking workers were interviewed. The Labour councillors who joined the strikers on the picket line were not interviewed. The other councillors who supported the strikers were not interviewed. The council staff who were trade unionists and who were present on the day were not interviewed. The local journalists who witnessed the event (and who reported on the event) and who are trade unionists were not interviewed.

The so called comprehensive investigation was nothing but a whitewash.

Having brought his buddy McGarry into the party hand having agreed to be his Director of Elections John McCarrick obviously would not have wanted a genuine investigation to be carried out.

He and the other honchoes in the Labour party in Sligo now have the audacity to criticise Brian Scanlon and to talk about treachery.

The fact is that Scanon is well on the way to taking a seat at the next local election while the McCarrick/McGarry rump of the Labour party that remains in sligo continue to wallow in their own bitterness.

by Lampoon Thu Aug 09, 2007 14:42

Once again JJ glass attacks McGarry thinking it in someway addresses the issues raised. He also thinks I am in someway a McGarry supporter despite that fact that this will be the second time I will have corrected that assumption. I don't support mcGarry, I am losing faith in the Labour as well. I am simply opposed to opportunistic Bullshitters like Bree and Scanlon trying to score political points where they don't deserve any.

In his rush to attack mcgarry he assumes anyone who criticises Bree and Scanlon must be McGarry supporters. What a lazy, half-assed arrogant assumption to make.

Not to mention completely avoiding the questions asked (which is a well renowned Bree tactic) by spouting out mantra that has no bearing on reality and is completely in the realm of wishful thinking.

His appraisal of Scanlon is also in the clouds. Any examination of Scanlons vote will clearly show that his personal vote in Sligo is the same as it was in the local elections (just over 250). That is a matter of record. Take into account that this number is across all the wards and that number drops again when you examine the vote he received from the ward he will be running in.

It is absolute rubbish to claim he in on course for a seat on the council when these facts are considered along with the treacherous behaviour of the Greens nationally. it is naivety in the extreme to think that while Scanlon remains in the greens he will not suffer as a result of their sell out.

JJ keeps banging on about a picket line being crossed as if that some how vindicates his off the wall analysis. He uses words like humiliation and meltdown as if they where dripping from the lips of the people on the street. Nonsense, it is the well known rhetoric of a by-passed political dinosaur who still thinks he has his finger on the pulse of Socialist politics despite having never worked a day in his life and comes from a background of privilegde. The hypocrisy is breath-taking.

As for scanlon and his principles, again with the humour. Had he a shred of principle he would have left the greens the second they signed the deal with the devil.

He didn't, that is clear for all to see, it is clear to all why he didn't leave the greens and it is clear his principles match his opportunism.

Actions speak louder than words, all we get from Scanlon and Bree are bitter words and a few talk shops. No action. They are the exact same as McGarry with one important difference, McGarry doesn't pretend to be anything other than what he is.

Bree can pretend to be principled all he wants. He can try and claim he left Labour over the political direction the Party is going. He can spout this garbage all he likes. We all know why Bree left labour, he left because the Party locally didn't ratify him for the GE. If they did, Bree would be still in Labour.

Bree avoids all the questions I asked in my last post. That is all he is capable of. Just like the time he got heckled in Abbey street. He was embarrassed into silence because people are waking up to his hot air nomenclature. He speaks like a socialist but acts like a middle class elitist.

Bree is a member of the political chattering middle class and is far removed the people he claims to represent (I wonder when was the last time he put his hand in his pocket to help some one out).

Scanlon does whatever Bree tells him to do.

That is all there is to see here folks. The game is up for these two charlatans.

by ned green Thu Aug 09, 2007 20:24

Labour under Rabbitte is not only in trouble in the west,its in terminal decline nationally.Its only a matter of time before he does a Michael O Leary and deserts to the Blueshirts more than likely bringing with him the vast majority of the parliamentry party.Maybe then a true broad based socialist party will emerge to challenge the pro EU Superstate neo-con establishment,who run this State to satisify Big Business, Foreign Multinationals and the Banking Elite at the expense of ordinary workers.

by ned green Thu Aug 09, 2007 20:24

Labour under Rabbitte is not only in trouble in the west,its in terminal decline nationally.Its only a matter of time before he does a Michael O Leary and deserts to the Blueshirts more than likely bringing with him the vast majority of the parliamentry party.Maybe then a true broad based socialist party will emerge to challenge the pro EU Superstate neo-con establishment,who run this State to satisify Big Business, Foreign Multinationals and the Banking Elite at the expense of ordinary workers.

by Lampoon Thu Aug 09, 2007 22:13

And now in jumps Ned Green with both feet, sigh..

More attacks on Labour huh? More ridiculous assertions that Labour is on the verge of collapse. All this despite not one single shred of evidence or even a link to what must surely be a national story.

Not one journalist in the country sees labours present difficulties in anywhere near the terminal light that Ned see it. It’s more wishful thinking.

The funny thing is that even with the latter day post-departure attacks on Labour, it still remains a certainty that Bree would still be in Labour had he received the GE nomination. As would Connolly in Galway etc etc. We can all see a pattern here and anyone with a brain-cell can see what it is.

This begs the question, does Bree/connolly actually see the Labour party in the same nefarious way as Ned but got comfy with the rich electoral coffers Labour provided. Does Bree think that the party is full of blueshirts? Why would he have remained in such a party for so long if that’s how he truly see's it? Rabbittes been the Leader for years, why all the argy bargy now?

Brees fooling no-one only those who want to be fooled or too stupid to see the obvious hypocrisy in all this.

But alas even Ned can’t read posts. Even he thinks I am an apologist for Labour.
But for the third wearisome time I’ll reiterate that I'm not.

The Labour Party has problems which have more to do with election pacts and the prominence and militarily competent electoral machine of Fianna fail. Historically Labour where not a force west of the Shannon. A handful of opportunists jumping ship won’t swing that reality one way or the other.

Is Ned Green a member of the Green party? Is he happy with his owns parties ACTUAL capitulation to big business and becoming Fianna Fails bitch?
Is he trying to deflect attention away from his owns parties treachery? It seems so.

And for all the talk about blueshirts (as if that in some way is still the emotionally charged euphemism it used to be) Bree seems happy to support that other big right-wing party by voting for a Fianna fail mayor in Sligo in return for the deputy mayors chain. The principled socialist? My arse.

Ned talks abuot the establishment. Bree’s been part of it for a long long time.

by Jason B Dwyer Sat Aug 11, 2007 13:03

Lampoons criticism of Brian Scanlon reflects the views of the McGarry/McCarrick group of Labour Party members remaining in Sligo.

The fact is that Brian Scanlon has always taken a principled position on matters concerning the people of Sligo. Look at his record down the years. He has as good a record as any socialist in the country.

McGarry and McCarrick will never forgive Scanlon for humiliating them during the general election.

Its not too long ago when Scanlon, the Sinn Fein councillors and the labour councillors were campaigning against the privatisation of the Refuse Services in Sligo. What was McGarry and his colleague John McCarrick doing then?

While McGarry was voting for the privatisation of the refuse service, McCarrick in his capacity as SIPTU Branch Secretary refused to organise the union to oppose the privatisation. Not a squeak was heard from the union when Sligo´s refuse service was privatised! Don't rock the boat or annoy the establishment is McCarrick´s motto.

Brian Scanlon has more principle in his little toe than McGarry or McCarrick could ever have.

McGarry/McCarrick etc laughed at Scanlon when he announced that he would be contesting the general election. The laugh was on the other side of their faces on the day of the count.

Scanlon will take a seat at the next local elections whether McGarry/McCarrick like it or not.

by Lampoon Sat Aug 11, 2007 18:15

Here he is again, trying to make the assertion that if you are critical of Bree or Scanlon then you must be a supporter of McGarry. Absolute nonsense.

Whether it reflects the views of the McGarry/McCarrick group (as you call it) is irrelevant. The fact remains Bree and Scanlon are opportunists and the evidence has been spelled out here clear as day for all to see and believe me they do.

It is Bree's contention that he is some how beyond reproach, that his record is one of purist principle. He is away with the fairies if thats how he reads it. Anyone can look at his record to see he sold out both in the Dáil and as a councillor (sorry...ahem deputy mayor).

Bree thinks that only a vested few will view this thread and therefore he rattles on with rhetoric about principle despite his actions which are on the record proving otherwise. Again he is mistaken. Brees shenanigans on Indymedia are becoming more well known and becoming more preposterous considering his position. All he does is use threads like this to fling mud at McGarry from anonymity and make accusations he cant prove nor would have the guts to do so publicly.

There are many many more people other than McGarry who dislike Bree both within Labour and without and for good reason. Equally there are many many people other than Bree who dislike McGarry and for good reason as well. What is annoying a lot of people though is Bree's adolescent behaviour and downright dishonest cowardice in all this.

As for Scanlon, he is nothing but a joke, played on the electorate of a constituency that didn’t even know who he was. They just voted Green because they had the chance to do so for the first time ever. Many of those have been burned by the Greens interim betrayal of the principles they pegged their election on. When these principled people also find out what a muppet Scanlon is you can rest assured they wont be giving him a tick anytime soon. (in any case, they cant, they don't live in the ward that Scanlon will be running in- something Bree time and again curiously overlooks when hes spewing his baseless shite)

Bree claims Scanlon has principles. Well what is he still doing in the Greens? Anyone with a shred of principle would have left the Greens after they bolstered F Fail and gave their programme for Government a Green seal of approval. Scanlon is a sell out who is in a Party that supports privatisation, water charges, bin charges, co-location, the use of Shannon by US imperialists and the destruction of Tara. They have even tried their hand at gerrymandering in the past fortnight which only highlights their F Fail lite credentials.

Scanlons personal vote did not increase. He is not on course for a seat on the council, not with those numbers. That is a matter of fact.

Try harder Declan. This guff is for the birds.

by Rebel Joe Sun Aug 12, 2007 18:14

Mighty stuff on this thread

I note that this chap Lampoon says he is losing faith in Labour. Does this mean he will soon follow Keavney, Bree, McDaid, Connolly, Mulcahy, McSharry and Scanlon in resigning from the Labour Party?

Will the last one out of Labour please turn off the light.

by Lampoon Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:08

Losing faith in Labour from my perspective does not equate into a nationwide meltdown which is exactly the type of absolute rubbish Bree is claiming.

Again all the issues raised about Bree and the questions asked are thoroughly avoided by picking up on an irrelevant point that Bree thinks in some way validates all the tripe hes been saying.

Like I keep saying, Labour have problems. That fact is hardly a secret. They have some thinking to do but I'm sure they will do what they think is best. A big plus was getting rid of Bree,

My differences with Labour do not equate into a meltdown of the Party. This thread was started in a puerile attempt to suggest that Labour was on the verge of collapse. It is an absolute fantasy peddled by Bree under some megalomaniac illusion that the party cannot survive without him.

Still no links, no proof, no quotation or referral to any article, column or opinion piece in any of the media organs by any journalist to substantiate the claim that Labour is on the verge of meltdown.

When asked for proof all we get is nit-picking and quips.

"Mighty stuff" indeed.