Thomas Ashe Commemoration

by Still Watchin Mon Sep 10, 2007 17:21

Another leading republican lining up with eirigi and this time a Belfast one!! Coming on the back of Bernie McAliskey speaking at their James Connolly commemoration earlier on in the year this is yet another example of how eirigi appear to becoming the focal point for those who still resist British rule in Ireland.

by Shane Sat Sep 15, 2007 17:47

Just got the éirígí newsletter in the door. They seem to be getting bigger not just a flash in the pan as some of my SF mates have said.Looking forward to the commeration and joining the party.

by Micky joe Mon Sep 17, 2007 16:01

Not just an alternative to SF but a serious alternative to the backward politics of RSF, the non existent politics of 32CSM, and the hopeless rut of the IRSP etc. Eirigi are a refreshing addition to political life here and offer socialist republicans a real home without the messers.

by Michael Donlon Mon Sep 17, 2007 18:28

Mickey Joe is right. RSF and the 32csm with all respect dont offer a republican/socialist alternative for republicans to Sinn Fein. Thats why éirígi are like a breath of fresh air. Good luck to them and lets hope something big and lasting builds out of this

by Patrick Henry Mon Sep 17, 2007 19:26

I agree with the previous two posts concerning the smaller Republican parties who are stuck in a rut not knowing what direction to take. Carrying on an embarrassing [ for them anyway] war will achieve nothing. Eirigi will hopefully drag Republicanism from the ditch in which it was abandoned by $inn Fein and drive it down the road to a Socialist Republic.
Good Luck Eirigi.

by Frank Mon Sep 17, 2007 21:20

Is Eirigi viewed as a safe option because of its detachment from physical force republicanism?

by Donnacha Mon Sep 17, 2007 23:12

Has Eirigi any political viewpoint on abortion?

by Celia S Tue Sep 18, 2007 07:33

I am really looking forward to this commemoration on Saturday. I was at their Connolly commemoration and came away energised. Looking forward greatly to hearing Bernard Fox speaking. Should be quite interesting

CS

by DeclanD Tue Sep 18, 2007 17:56

seen the posters for this in clondalkin and palmerstown eaelier on looks good. wish yis all the best lads. good to see the link with 81 there too.

Thomas Ashe gave everything in 1917
The lord mayor of Cork Mac Sweeney died his freedom to obtain
But never one of all our dead died more courageously
Than young Bobby Sands from Twinbrook, the people's own M.P

Poster

by (1913) Tue Sep 18, 2007 20:56

which bus from o' connell st. does anyone mind me askin, and to Glasnevin or Phibs?

by bus-stop Tue Sep 18, 2007 21:02

from Westmoreland Street- it then heads down to the civic offices, up capel street, constitution
Hill into Phibsboro and Glasnevin.

it no longer goes down O Connell Street.

by Butterknife Tue Sep 18, 2007 22:15

Remind me again what Eirigi has done to deserve all this phrase? Campaigns? Successes? Actions? As someone has already asked, are Eirigi the easy option for those disillusioned with the provos? No chance of the hassle from the Special Branch or the provos or the drug dealers or the anti socials. At least the Real’s and the Contro’s are considered a genuine threat by the state. It’s nice and safe in lefty land!

by kbranno Tue Sep 18, 2007 23:27

Did you ever stop to think that maybe Eirigi have seen that splinter "Republican" groups that engage in violence are onto a hiding to nothing. Though not agreeing with a lot of what Eirigi stand for I will applaud them for not becoming another 32csm, a movement which are irrelevant to all Irish working people and who will achieve nothing. Physical force Republicanism is dead, Eirigi can see that but instead of going along with Sinn Fein and all the sellouts that would entail they broke away and started a successful, relevant group which can offer something to the working class, unlike the RIRA,CIRA,32CSM etc etc.

by Sean Oglach Wed Sep 19, 2007 14:40

Wise up Butterknife, the Reals and the Contros are considered a real threat by no one except the owners of carpet warehouses. Sure the bloody cops are patrolling on bicycles. The way I see it if the Provos were infiltrated right at the top then this lot must be riddled with touts.
As someone who was used to carry out violent acts by those armchair generals who are now part of the State I am completely against the further use of violence to remove a border that is fading because of changing European politics.
We need an alternative to the Shinners who have proven their disloyalty to the common people and hopefully Eirigi will grow to be that alternative.

by Big Mac Wed Sep 19, 2007 15:34

I'm certain that people are not looking at the bigger picture here. What Sean Oglach is saying about the border fading because of changing European politics is reality and the person off the mark first is Bertie Ahern with his decision to move into the North Politically.
I've read a lot of nonsense in sites like Slugger about his reasoning but the fact is that he sees the emergence of a Federal Europe and he is simply preparing the groundwork for such a scenario. He is expanding his political territory in the meantime as he waits for both parts of Ireland to merge as a single state in a future Federal Europe.
After thrashing Sinn Fein in the South he believes that their leadership is weak politically and that the time is right to make inroads to their electoral base here. He knows that will take time but with the Shinners reduced to struggling for votes in 6 out of the 32 Counties that he will eventually be the voice of Nationalist Ireland as a whole.
As for Eigiri I can't see them being anymore a future treat to FF than the Shinners.

by Frank Wed Sep 19, 2007 17:11

The border has being going away since its creation and given current events its going to continue going away for some considerable time to come. FF are flying a kite here to test the winds and if there's enough of a unionist wind about it they'll retreat back to their patch of the island. FF are not a party to upset the status quo. That said any potential realignment of politics on the island should elicit a republican response and no doubt Eirigi along with other republican groups should be a part of that response.

by Andy Martin - 32 County Sovereignty Movement Wed Sep 19, 2007 17:51

I would like to take mickey joe up on a point he makes earlier regarding the 32CSM's 'non existent' politics. My question to him is what does he base this statement on. All the republican organisations are well aware of the initiatives that we have have undertaken in the last 2 years to try to realign republican separatist politics. Despite a quiet summer i fully expect republicans to re-engage in the unity initiative and i fully expect both eirigi and RSF to come on-board. While i wish eirigi the best they must realise that they are going to change very little on their own, something many of the other organisations learned a long time ago, unity is strength, there is more that unites than divides. Check out the policy documents in the following link.

by Patrick Henry Wed Sep 19, 2007 20:06

Andy do you believe that the way forward includes the use of violence and how do you expect to overhaul $inn Fein neither mind FF if you go off on Summer holidays instead of trying to move forward from what has been such a dismal election campaign?

Quite simply you are trying to catch up on a Porsche with a donkey and cart unless you get your act together.

I believe that you should have the courage to join Eirigi and leave the RIRA, INLA, IRSP and 32CSM to fade into history then you'll have a truly united front without the shackles of violence.

by T Russell Wed Sep 19, 2007 20:48

Just followed your link Andy and read about just how lucky the RUC / PSNI were way back in July when the RIRA nearly blew them up.
Do you honestly believe that an operation every couple of months will force the Brits out and the Unionists into a United Ireland when the PIRA couldn't after 30 years of bombing and killing daily?
Your 'WAR' is a joke but I realise that the potential is there in Eigiri to move the struggle on. Therefore abandon your futile violence, get your people out of jail and begin a meaningful struggle to claw back what SF have surrendered.

by Liam Mc Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:08

Andy

I think you are naive if you think RSF will come on board with the Republican Unity project. RSF view the 32CSM as sell outs and traitors also. When RSF was founded in 1986, the people that now are 32csm did not leave and in the eyes of RSF were traitors recognising Leinster House etc etc.

by Patrick Henry Thu Sep 20, 2007 13:51

Andy I'll take it from your silence in reference to my question that you cannot justify the continued use of meaningless violence by your armed wing?

As for Liam Mc who likes to call others traitors while his own party are hardly covering themselves in glory either in a military or political sense, wise up, blowing civilians up in Omagh doesnt make you a revolutionary army. In fact you are only a threat to your own people and the AOH would have more chance of freeing Ireland than all the Micro-Republicans combined.

Eirigi are some way from being able to challenge the $hinners but they've made a start and I for one am encouraged. As someone who was a Volunteer in the Provos I have seen the futility of violence and I believe that we need a leadership who will not be cowed by the State, British or Irish.

by Andy Martin - 32 County Sovereignty Movement Thu Sep 20, 2007 14:45

The 32CSM do not have an armed wing, their position on armed struggle is clear, it is entirely legitimate. Its legitimacy is not in question.
The group you call the RIRA will not call a ceasefire even if they do nothing for the next 10 years, and why should they?
I ask people to study the discussion/policy documents submitted to various groups yet not one poster appears to have even read them. As i have said, i believe a unity project offers us the best opportunities strategically at this time. The posters who have urged myself to 'have the courage ' to leave the 32's behind and join eirigi are missing the point, the 32csm are a pressure group not a politically party and their focus is on the issue of sovereignty. I see no reason to not allow dual membership. The 32csm are not a politically party, their analysis does not differ from eirigi's on the sovereignty issue. Eirigi will not allow others to join for fear they would 'swamp' their party.

by Patrick Henry Thu Sep 20, 2007 16:30

If as you say Andy that Armed struggle is legitimate then could you tell me what makes it legitimate? Do the Irish people want an armed struggle?
Is it legitimate because a small number of Republicans decide that they know best what the Irish people want?
Is it legitimate because the majority of Irish people voted for a Sinn Fein party, 90 years ago, a Sinn Fein party which accepted the treaty, split and killed each other then became FF and hanged IRA Volunteers?
I believed that nonsense for years because we were told it was the only way forward. Those who told us that then turned and told us after the deaths of many comrades that it was no longer legitimate.
Violence is not legitimate because a tiny number say it is.

by Patrick Henry Thu Sep 20, 2007 17:48

I'm not suggesting that the RIRA or the Continuity IRA call a ceasefire, I'm suggesting that they call a complete end to a futile campaign, which going by past experience may result in the deaths of innocents maybe even members of my own family.
What are your prisoners expected to do for the next ten years or more? Rot in jail while their families suffer on the outside and their children grow older, as they only see them on visits, while the RIRA might be doing nothing?

I have attempted to read your discussion/policy documents and found them long-winded and tedious. Perhaps you could give us a condensed version? Maybe you could tell us how you are to achieve your objectives without referring to said documents?

Andy, I've been there, on active service, nearly 9 years in jail, on the Blanket. I've met them all, those uncompromising Republicans who eventually compromised and now align themselves with those who cheered while the Hunger Strikers died. Who call for support of a Police force who colluded in the murder of our people.

I've known many in the higher ranks of the Republican Movement, but nowhere have I ever heard of Andy Martin who now tells me that Armed Struggle is legitimate.

What I ask again gives you the authority to make such a claim?

by Frank Thu Sep 20, 2007 18:36

The fact that what the Irish people want is subordinate to British interests argues the legitimacy of armed struggle. Whether to strategically employ it or not is an entirely different question. What is Eirigi's position on the subject?

by Andy Martin - 32 County Sovereignty Movement Thu Sep 20, 2007 18:57

Is armed struggle only legitimate if the majority want it? In that case armed struggle has never been justified in Ireland, not for many many years. I believe armed struggle is legitimate if not always tactically astute. Its legitimacy arises from the fact that Ireland is currently under occupation by Britain despite the fact that a majority wish it to be otherwise. Should Britain feel its occupation under threat it will respond with force of arms, should it feel its sovereign claim under threat then it will react like wise. Now i couldn't care less if you were chief of staff in the past and i am sorry that you have never heard of me. I am also sorry if you require a 'readers digest' version of our documents. You clearly believe that A/S is illegitimate, what makes it so? Is the GFA the will of the people? Who are you to tell others that A/S is illegitimate? regarding ceasefires etc, you obviously believe that those prisoners currently in gaol will be released if the RIRA/CIRA call an end to their 'futile' campaigns, why would this be so? Not even the prisoners believe this to be the case. I am sorry you have wasted so much of your life fighting in an illegitimate war however if others wish to do so i don't really see what you can do to stop it Incidentally i do not think eirigi believe armed struggle to be illegitimate.

by Patrick Henry Thu Sep 20, 2007 19:48

Yes a majority might want the British out of Ireland ,then again maybe as seems the case they couldn't care less. $inn Fein's results in the South proves that. Your own lack of success up here in the occupied North proves that the Republican / Nationalist people couldn't care less about your legitimate armed struggle, which might not be tactically astute.

Ask the ordinary person on the street what concerns them most and you'll hear them demand the removal from our streets of the scum who terrorise our communities. You'll hear about social issues and lack of jobs. What are you doing about that?

What do you hope to achieve? The removal of the border and Unity with an equally corrupt system in the South?
What, if the border were to disappear because of a Federated Europe in the future and the power over our lives and economy shifted from London to Brussels? Would you carry the legitimate armed struggle to Europe?

I am no $hinner and I realise that without the majority of the people you won't achieve nothing. In order to win their support you must pander to their needs and not your own opinion of what is good for them.

London is not good for them, neither is Stormont, Dublin nor Brussels rule, we must go to the people lead them, educate them and make them strong enough to stand up to those who exploit them.

by Andy Martin - 32 County Sovereignty Movement Thu Sep 20, 2007 20:30

I don't disagree with some of the points you make however because the majority of people don't give a fuck as long as their are relatively well off does that mean republicanism should disappear, are you a republican and if so what makes you one? Either the British sovereign claim is illegal or not, if it is then armed struggle is legitimate whether or not a majority support it. Do you think that taking armed actions against Drug Dealers is wrong? or people smugglers? or corrupt landlords? or Shell executives? Is it only armed actions aganist the British state or economy? Where should the Irish people derive their power from if not Dublin, Stormont, London or Bruxelles?

by michael Thu Sep 20, 2007 21:13

Seriously Andy I accept the legitimacy of armed struggle against the British but do you really believe that at this stage in time that tactically it serves any purpose?

by Conuil North Belfast - Sinn Fein Fri Sep 21, 2007 16:06 mairtinog1 at hotmail dot com Belfast

Just read UR bit on Bernard Fox addressing tomorrow's Ashe Commemoration @ Glasnevin.

Wee Bernard has loads of respect from around the country and thus, he'll do the Patriot Ashe justice in his words...

Fair play 2 Eirigi again for remembering a true son of Ireland....

by Andy Martin - 32CSM Fri Sep 21, 2007 18:10

With respect Michael, my views on the tactical benefits of armed struggle are irrelevant however if A/S is at the very least legitimate would it not be prudent to keep that option open even if rarely used?

by Michael Fri Sep 21, 2007 18:23

Andy said: "With respect Michael, my views on the tactical benefits of armed struggle are irrelevant however if A/S is at the very least legitimate would it not be prudent to keep that option open even if rarely used?"

No Andy I dont think your views on the tactical benefits of armed struggle are irrelevant. I am curious to know whether you think the current use of armed stuggle, limited as it is, is tactically beneficial to the Republican struggle at this time. I am not asking for anyone elses view, just your own.

by Andy Martin - 32CSM Fri Sep 21, 2007 18:35

I have noted in one of eirigi's leaflets that they believe a grass roots movement will take in other political organisations, individuals and groups etc. Why then have eirigi as of yet refused to work in a unified manner with other republican organisations that share their basic principles and the basic principles of republican socialism. In the near future further documents will be forwarded to eirigi from the 32CSM regarding a broader based platform for promoting republicanism, socialism, anti imperialism and defending our national sovereignty, i look forward to their considered response.

Again i will refer you to the two specific documents that have been forwarded to eirigi previously:
Republican Unity.
http://www.32csm.org/irishdem.htm
Preparing an Irish Democracy.
http://www.32csm.org/repun.htm

by Tomás Fri Sep 21, 2007 23:37

Patrick, I find it difficult to understand your position on A/S, especially as the six-counties are under military occupation. Every nation has a right to defend its borders when under foreign attack, however it so chooses, and in the absence of a nationalist government - individuals or groups not only have a right, but also have a responsibility to protect their national sovereignty.

A/S is a legitimate tactic for any nation, especially when confronted by a Empire that is raping the island's resources and enslaving the people through economic indenture.

Also it is not a question of whether it is tactically right to use A/S at present, it is a question of whether nationalists have the capacity to follow through with A/S and be successful.

If we compare the successes of Eirigi over the last year to any of the groups involved in A/S, then I think A/S has achieved more (even though it has achieved very little). The handing out of over 40,000 Proclamations, the organisation of a few commemorations, public meetings and the launch of a newsheet (while all noble endeavors) is in no way have challenged the status quo of either the Free State or the Occupied State. Even a ten year program would provide very little successes in the political arena, except things like Bin Charges might be dropped on the same day another stealth tax is pushed through Leinster House.

In comparison the few small A/S attacks on English rule in the occupied region and provided some form of active resistence against our enemy; and further it has kept a flame burning for future generations who may or may not be more successful.

by Andy Martin - 32CSM Fri Sep 21, 2007 23:49

Michael, i believe that since armed struggle is legitimate it would be prudent to keep that option open, if not always to employ it.

by A reminder Sat Sep 22, 2007 00:53

A reminder that the commemoration is tomorrow (Saturday 22nd) at 2:30pm, Hart's Corner, Glasnevin

by Tomás Sat Sep 22, 2007 01:13

Let me Carry your Cross for Ireland, Lord
by Thomas Ashe

Let me carry your Cross for Ireland, Lord
The hour of her trial draws near,
And the pangs and the pains of the sacrifice
May be borne by comrades dear.

But, Lord, take me from the offering throng,
There are many far less prepared,
Through anxious and all as they are to die
That Ireland may be spared.

Let me carry your Cross for Ireland, Lord
My cares in this world are few.
And few are the tears will for me fall
When I go on my way to You.

Spare. Oh! Spare to their loved ones dear
The brother and son and sire.
That the cause we love may never die
In the land of our Heart's desire!

Let me carry your Cross for Ireland, Lord!
Let me suffer the pain and shame
I bow my head to their rage and hate,
And I take on myself the blame.

Let them do with my body whate'er they will,
My spirit I offer to You.
That the faithful few who heard her call
May be spared to Roisin Dubh.

Let me carry your Cross for Ireland, Lord!
For Ireland weak with tears,
For the aged man of the clouded brow,
And the child of tender years;

For the empty homes of her golden plains;
For the hopes of her future, Too!
Let me carry your Cross for Ireland, Lord!
for the cause of Roisin Dubh.

by Michael Sat Sep 22, 2007 01:56

Andy said "Michael, i believe that since armed struggle is legitimate it would be prudent to keep that option open, if not always to employ it."

I quite agree with you Andy. However that wasnt what I asked you. Would you think that tactically there is no benefit at this period of time from armed struggle? Not at that some point in the future - but now?

by Andy Martin - 32CSM Sat Sep 22, 2007 09:53

I think armed struggle when beneficial should be at least countenanced, that could be next year or this evening, i don't have to make those decisions, therefore my personal opinion is of little consequence.

by Michael Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:46

Sorry Andy if you dont like me asking you. i am not having a slap at yo or anything. I am just curious as to what your view is on the tactical use of armed struggle at this time and how you think it benefits the republican struggle at this time.

I didnt claim that you had to make any such decisions, merely seeking your opinion, thats all your opinion. It is not insignificant or irrelevant.

If you dont want to voice your opinion then fair enough but I dont know what you are doing on an internet political forum if you dont want to express your opinion. It doesnt make much sense does it\?

by Andy Martin - 32CSM Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:03

Sorry Michael, i was under the impression that i did give my opinion at least twice? Do you want me to go through every single scenario and discuss its fors and againsts?

by Michael Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:39

Andy said: "Sorry Michael, i was under the impression that i did give my opinion at least twice? Do you want me to go through every single scenario and discuss its fors and againsts?"

No I dont Andy and I never asked you to. You must be mixing my post with someone elses.

You gave your opinion on some things alright Andy, but you didnt give your opinion on what I asked you - what benefit you believe armed struggle provides at this moment in time for the republican struggle - not what it may provide in the future or anything else or whether is legitimate or justified, but specifically what benefit it provides now currently at this moment.

If you think it is of benefit now then why not tell us how it benefits the struggle? If it is not of beneit why not tell us so? I support the right to use armed struggle, but I dont always believe it is right to do so. I dont believe it benefits republicanism at this time though it may be needed at some stage in the future again depending on circumstances.

by Andy Martin - 32CSM Sat Sep 22, 2007 14:00

Michael, at this moment in time i don't see that armed struggle is a factor, is it that you want armed groups to call a ceasefire? The level of armed struggle is so minimal as to not be an issue at present and i think that is deliberately so, if and when the IRA resume an armed campaign in earnest then you can ask me what my views are, my current view is that there is no armed struggle.

by Andy Sat Sep 22, 2007 14:21

Andy said "Michael, at this moment in time i don't see that armed struggle is a factor, is it that you want armed groups to call a ceasefire? The level of armed struggle is so minimal as to not be an issue at present and i think that is deliberately so, if and when the IRA resume an armed campaign in earnest then you can ask me what my views are, my current view is that there is no armed struggle."

No I am too bothered whether or not armed groups call a ceasefire to be honest. I have told you what I felt about armed struggle at present and was genuinely interested as to whether you or the 32csm actually saw any benefit in engaging in armed struggle at this period of time or whether the RIRA were carrying out attacks or attempted attacks such as the recent one in or around the Newry area just for the sake of it.

by Andy Martin - 32CSM Sat Sep 22, 2007 14:55

You'd have to ask the RIRA why they were carrying out attacks suffice to say they claimed they had tried to kill members of the RUC outside Newry at around the same time as Brown was here for his East/West council, Political timing i'm sure, over and above that i could't say.

by Patrick Henry Sat Sep 22, 2007 15:58

All this rhetoric about Armed Struggle has become tedious and repetitive. I wonder have any of those in favour of it ever actually been on active service or have they ever served time in prison? Have they ever listened to people they looked up to and respected and believed them when they said that Armed Struggle was legitimate and that the war would continue until Ireland was free? Then have they saw those self same people take their places in an institution they swore to destroy?

Armed struggle is a waste of lives and liberty and the losers have always been the people.

I don't quite remember the exact quote of James Connolly but he said more or less, "What good would it be if the Tricolour were flying over Dublin Castle if the people walking under it were no better off?"

I believe that to be the case.

by Andy Martin - 32CSM Sat Sep 22, 2007 17:57

Good man Patrick, thanks for your opinion, it is as valid as anyone elses.

by Tomás Sat Sep 22, 2007 21:02

Tomás Ashe

The Children of Éireann are listening again
To Death’s sullen, sad, sombre beat of the drum!
Oppression has seized on a man amongst men,
And an eloquent life’s stricken senseless and dumb,
While we, left behind, wait the life from you death that shall come!

In your fight to unfetter Humanity’s soul,
Your body was blazoned with scars,
To oppression you fearlessly tendered the toll,
Removing for progress the Bolts and the Bars,
With your hand to the Plough and your eyes on the stars.

On the cold seat of death now your body’s enthroned,
And your warm heart is silent and still,
For our life that is Death, your great life has atoned,
And we feel in our hearts a swift answering thrill,
To take up your work, all hard fallow nature to till.

Here hope and Endeavour with energy braid
Leaves of honour to garland the Dead,
Here Liberty rests with calm Courage arrayed,
By the side of the Kingly but now passive head,
Anointed with blood that this Hero has shed.

Huge Labour looks down on your battle-scarred face,
Ignoble and noble with sweat on his brow,
Unable to fathom this soul of his race,
Half-conscious that soon, when he springs from the Slough,
He shall understand then, if he can’t do it now!

To your soul, for awhile, we all murmur, Farewell!
And we take the Dear Gift that you gave,
For your great Life stamped out in the cold prison cell
Shall be potent our own slavish nature to save,
Tho’ your body we leave in the drear hidden gloom of the grave.

By: Seán Ó Cathasaigh

by Tomás Sat Sep 22, 2007 21:12

Tomás Ó Ághas

Another hero’s knell to toll,
Another prayer for a parted soul,
Another name on the patriot’s roll -
Brave Tomás Ashe;
Back with our tears!- ‘twas a soldiers fell,
Who laughed as he starved in his prison cell
At the thought of the troops he trounced so well -
Brave Tomás Ashe!

He held his life as light as dross,
He wrote that few would mourn his loss,
And for Ireland’s sake he asked the Cross,
Brave Tomás Ashe,
And the Lord received His servant’s prayer,
And chose, for him the rest to spare,
But gave him the heave Cross to bear,
Brave Tomás Ashe!

He carried the Cross till death drew night,
And little dreamed when he came to die
How he like a king in state should lie,
Brave Tomás Ashe,
While the flag of Dublin hung half-mast,
And tens of thousands of people passed,
In mourning files to look their last
On brave Tomás Ashe!

Few to mourn? Half Ireland’s here
To honour the fallen Volunteer,
And marching follow his soldier’s bier,
Brave Tomás Ashe,
And men in jail whom his death will save
Hear the measured tramp of his comrades brave
As they bear his corpse to its hero’s grave,
Brave Tomás Ashe!

They lay him low in his narrow bed,
They plant the Cross at the martyr’s head
They fire three volleys above the dead,
Brave Tomás Ashe -
God welcome you on the other side!
God comfort us that in Ireland bide!
God bless the cause for which you died,
Brave Tomás Ashe!

By: Elizabeth Healy

by Tomás Sat Sep 22, 2007 21:21

I gCuimhne Thomáis Ó Ághas

Do sceinn an faoileán go hard os Ceann Sibéal,
Múnla a sciathán mar aingeal ag snámh ins an aer,
Ag treabhadh an ísleáin, is ag gabhail do chúraimí an lae
Bhí ainm Thomáis Ághas sa chomhrá I bhfarradh Mac Dé.

Cé chreideann Fionn agus an Fhiann
Ná stair imchian Chúchulainn áigh?
Cad iad ach scáile as meisce mearaí na seanúdar?
Siúd thall an tigh inar rugadh Tomás Ághas.

Fuil dár bhfuil. Meon dár meon. Chuir sé áille nua sa chúntas,
Tháining dúthracht úr sa lá.
An cailín óg I mbéal a pósta móíde binneas a hamhrán
Is an ghrian bhuí ag luí san Iarthar is órga a maise ag dul fé scáth.

Shiúlaíos anuraidh bóithre agus bánta fhine Gall
Ar lorg a thásc, is ag labhairt le fuíoll aosta an áir.
Am naofa an Cháísc. Dúirt liom a gclann:
“Tá a dúchas inár gcuisle; linne a chroí, a ghrá agus a ghreann;
Tomás Ághas Ó Chinn Arid dearth air dlúth ár gcine
Agus beidh a chlú I mbéal ár gclainne luath is mall.”

Le Marie Johnson

by Eddie Mon Sep 24, 2007 17:55

I was dissapointed by such a poor turnout at this commemoration and more importantly, what poor speeches. It appeared to me that I was at a RSF meeting but with younger participants and no rosary.
If Eirigi were hoping to build on this commemoration, I am sure they were very dissapointed.
One other point of interest. The Eirigi speaker made reference to the fact that "no vanguard army or no vanguard party" could lead us to Irish unity. Until very recently, many of the same individuals, now in Eirigi were proclaiming SF as the only true party for Irish people and were parading around Dublin, chests puffed out, proclaiming the Adams would be our next President and Unity by 2016. Even the guest speaker, Mr Fox, toured the north rallying the troops to the GFA and the SF line on "upcoming" unity.
It is very hard for republicans, not of the SF persuasion, to overlook the fact that many present on saturday were actively involved in sending republicanism into the cul-de-sac we now find ourselves in.
Perhaps they have copped on to their errors, Hopefully they can begin to undo the mess that SF have made. Even small steps can lead somewhere.

by Eddie Mon Sep 24, 2007 19:32

I have read with interest the contributions from the 32's (Andy) and his reference to their documents. While the documented aspirations cannot be faltered, they are only that. Written aspirations. The 32's are equal to RSF in failing to involve themselves in any meaningful campaigns which would advance the needs of the working class. Any group appealing for Irish unity on a basis of unity first and then we'll look at the political issues will fail utterly. Even DeValeras Fianna Fail made some links with workers and small farmers.
The irrelevance of the 32's and RSF to the ordinary people of Ireland cannot be overstated. RSF wither further away every year, perched upon their high horse of "we are the true believers" while the 32's appear to be more interested in producing lengthy tomes about unity while disregarding the daily issues faced by the actual inhabitants of the Irish nation. There is no point uniting Ireland just as a geographical entity unless the overall outcome is justice and equality for all. We need more deeds and less documents. Actions speak louder than words. And finally, by actions/deeds, I mean political and not military.

by Frank Mon Sep 24, 2007 20:53

Whilst Eddie makes some prudent observations I think he minimises the basic content of the 32s documents which read refreshingly as a direction away from constant analysis to finding a working basis for agreement so that the deeds he calls for can be pursued. And lets face it, his qualification at the end betrays I believe a tendency to constant analysis as opposed to action. I maybe wrong.

by Frank Mon Sep 24, 2007 21:54

Can we have an Eirigi account of the Commemoration?

by Séamus Mon Sep 24, 2007 22:10

There's a bit on their site

by Ashe Speech Tue Sep 25, 2007 15:25

Here is a section of the speech from the éirígí chairperson Brian Leeson. Not sure if the rest of it is going to be put up later. I was at the commemoration and would disagree with Eddie on the turnout.

There was somewhere in the region of a hundred people at it - which isn't at all bad by the standards of left or republican events in Dublin. More interesting was who was in the crowd. Aside from those mentioned already I spotted Brendan McCionnaith from the Garvaghy Road and a number of ex-lifers from Belfast.

There was also a fairly high level presence from the secret (or not so secret) police. Virtually everyone had their names taken and photograph taken by them

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=TUq2dFkIoNI

by Andy Martin - 32 County Sovereignty Movement Tue Sep 25, 2007 16:00 sovereign_nation at 32csm dot org

A very good speech by Brian Leeson which encapsulates much of what republicans have been saying regarding the Belfast agreement since it was signed and indeed prior to its publication when we began opposing what we believed to be the inevitable outcome of negotiations. The task now for eirigi and the challenge will be how to break out of the situation that they are in. I believe that 100 odd people for a commemoration is a good start and indeed on many occasions in the past we would have been glad of 100 people at a commemoration. My point is this, the 32's, the IRSP and indeed RSF have all been where eirigi are now, have all stated the exact same things and have all had to develop strategies to move further. This has not always been sucessful and it is my belief that the unity initiative gives us all the best of every group. Being relatively new and youthful i think eirigi will believe that they can go it alone to an extent and that they can avoid the traps the rest of us have fallen into but i believe they will face all the same problems, as someone else has alluded to, the state will be all over them like a cheap suit which will in turn cause its own difficulties. The key issues for us are the key issues that all republican groups can agree on, the issue of sovereignty, denial of national self determination and the on-going occupation, these are the issues we can unite upon. 100 people at a commemoration is good, 500 is better. Unite on the issues then act upon them.

by RSF??? Tue Sep 25, 2007 16:24

Eddie,

Are you sure you were at the right commemoration? Just took a look at the link to the Brian Leeson speech. Don't see where you're coming from with the 'could have been RSF' stuff. While the core of it is a re-statement of the right of the self-determination what else would you expect at a Republican event??

References to universal equal rights and entitlements for all regardless of sexual orientation, nationality or ethnicity is all sound stuff but hardly the rhetoric of RSF!! and no mention of the legitmacy of the first dail etc.

Maybe closer to the irps analysis than RSF don't you think?

Anyway its worh a look although it doesn't seem to be the complete speech.

by Eddie Tue Sep 25, 2007 19:20

My comments about the turnout were based on the premise that Eirigi had gained substantial support over the past few months. Poor numbers at a commemoration mean nothing to me as I well remember small demos of only low double figures at many republican events throughout Ireland. However, I was informed by Eirigi members that they were recruiting substantial numbers of disaffected SF'ers and therefore I was surprised to see so few at a national rally.
The relevance of having "known" faces in the crowd is missed upon me. It would be equally important to have new faces unless your only interest was in name dropping.
My comments about RSF style commemoration were aimed at the repetitive speeches regarding aspirations without regard for the actual implimentation of said ideals. I refered to similar problems with 32's. Blank references to "organised labour" or "the voluntary sector" are only leftish sloganeering. Republicans must make links with ordinary people through campaigns of relevance to their lives. A reference to organised labour is as bad / sad as a RSF reference to Mary or Jesus.
I have already said that Eirigi's work cannot be a bad thing. At least they are trying but to progress they must avoid the pitfalls of the past ( and THEIR past) .

by Tomás Tue Sep 25, 2007 23:28

It is interesting that people in support of Eirigi keep knocking 32 and RSF. If we are to judge the 32 Commemoration (run also with IRSP & Republican Network) at Bodenstown during the summer (700 attended), then numerically 32 are in a far stronger position than Eirigi. This is also the case with RSF who also had a fairly successful commemoration at Bodenstown, as well as over 500 people attending their Hunger-Strike commemoration in Donegal.

While I have the greatest respect for people like Bernard Fox for his long service to the national cause, he is not leadership material, and having made the blunder of following the Provo leadership for the past ten years when most genuine Republicans were able to see through the deceit and lies of the Adams leadership, then why would people rush to join Eirigi today.

Also the attacks against armed struggle, without stating how they are going to tackle the military occupation of the six counties is hypocritical. Firstly it is reducing the sacrifice of Irish soldiers who have fought trying to attain our freedom and secondly it is a psychological campaign to weaken the back bone of the nationalist movement. Every nation has a right to defend itself militarily and every nation needs an army of soldiers to do this. Those involved in armed struggle even in its twilight campaign since 1994 must be commended and respected for their attempts to challenge foreign occupation. Republican POW's must also be supported, in the same way Irish nationalists supported the Fenian prisoners after their attempted Dynamite Campaign in England.

by Patrick Henry Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:45

Tomas how can you have an armed struggle without the support of the people? The overwhelming majority of Irish people don't want an armed struggle and that's a fact. We don't have British soldiers patrolling our streets and the reason being is that they are longer needed because $inn Fein are now part of the Puppet Government installed by the Brits and they are eager supporters of the judicial system and the repackaged Police force.
So who do you take your war to?

No one other than those who are supportive of $inn Fein and the abandonment of the struggle are reducing the sacrifice of the soldiers who sought to attain our freedom.

Those who have been involved in armed struggle since 1994 must stop and take a long look at what the have achieved since, especially as the only operation carried out by them which has grabbed world headlines has been the slaughter of innocent civilians in Omagh and even I suspect that there was some sort of British involvement in this atrocity as was in Dublin / Monaghan.
I fully support any Republican Prisoners still incarcerated but I say put an end to a meaningless campaign of violence and lets get them out and back to their families.

The people have enemies who are encouraged by the state because as long as they continue to thrive then the people have their minds pre-occupied by the activities of these scum which include Drug dealers and the thugs who terrorise our communities.
If you want to make a start in gaining the support of the people then rally behind them, get them on to the street to confront the scum and make THEIR lives intolerable.
Then you'll have taken the first step towards unity. The UNITY OF YOUR PEOPLE.

by Tomás Wed Sep 26, 2007 13:50

Henry, I have written several articles on the issue of MI5 and their involvement in the Drugs Trade in Ireland, especially with reference to Heroin which began to flood several working class areas in Dublin since the 1980's. The Drugs problem in Ireland goes far beyond the dealers on street corners throughout every small town in Ireland. To seriously tackle the drugs problem, you have to challenge both the Free State and the Occupied State, and most importantly English involvement in the Nation as a whole. This will mean exposing English involvement where possible in the Drugs trade and also tackling the Drugs problem head on, rather than hoping the Free State police force will tackle the problem for us.
...............................

I agree that RSF and 32 should be more activist based on the street, but it all comes down to numbers and also the level of harrassment individuals can take, when there is no other groups willing to back them up. For years both RSF and 32 members were isolated from the broader Republican movement with smear campaigns against men who have dedicated their lives to Ireland. I was at one commemoration in recent months where 40 people turned up, with 20 branchmen to harass them. If we are going to talk about Republican Unity then Eirigi should consider the recent proposals of 32, the IRSP's and Republican Network. While not perfect, they do give us the opportunity to discuss and build a more solid nationalist foundation where we can seriously challenge English and Imperial occupation.
................................................

While I agree there is little support at present for armed struggle in Ireland, Ireland does need an army that will defend the people when the moment arises. Most Eirigi members (to my knowledge) remained within the Provisional Movement when they set about to disarm the Nationalist people, while England simultaneously strengthened their military occupation in North, and Europe further encroached into Irish sovereignty, with the objective to establish a European Military and Police force to support their colonial project. Eirigi should come out and reject both the Good Friday Agreement and the disarming of the Nationalist people, which we saw through Provisional decommissioning.

While no one is going to ask them to become involved AS, they at least should be supportive or remain silent on the issue of Irish soldiers who do choose to fight English occupation. Tómas Ashe saw this and after years of dedicating his life to the IRB and in building the foundation stones for a national revolt, he helped formed the Irish Volunteers to challenge English occupation, the only way he knew would be successful.

by eirigi and the Good Friday Agreement Wed Sep 26, 2007 16:42

Re where eirigi stand on the Good Friday Agreement. Here is an extract from the eirigi paper 'Imperialism - Ireland and Britain.' The rest of the paper can be found on the eirigi website. Hope that anwers any questions on eirigi's view of the Good Friday Agreement.

"The most recent of such treaties, namely the Belfast and St Andrews Agreements, of 1998 and 2006 respectively, contain many of the features that have defined British treaties in Ireland for centuries. Three such features stand out most clearly.

• Firstly, central to both of these agreements is an absolute acceptance of the legitimacy of British rule in Ireland. The constitutional status of Britain’s occupation will not change until a majority of those within the occupied six counties so decide– in effect one sixth of the Irish people will hold a veto over the other five-sixths.

• Secondly Britain’s long history of nurturing false divisions in Ireland continues with power being allocated on the basis of a crude sectarian head-count designed to deepen and prolong false divisions along religious lines.

• Finally, as with all British treaties, there is the apparent potential for those who support Irish freedom to achieve a long-term victory if they are willing to support the status quo in the short-term. In this the British government is at its most devious. Britain has conceded enough to convince some who oppose British rule in Ireland that these latest treaties are substantially different to all previous treaties and therefore worthy of support. In this the British draw upon their not insubstantial experience in negotiations and hope to neutralise the demand for British withdrawal and Irish Freedom. Failing this the British hope to lay the seeds of division among those who would nominally desire Irish freedom but disagree upon how it may be achieved.

We in éirígí are convinced that these two most recent treaties are considerably more likely to solidify British rule in Ireland than they are to end it."

by Eddie Wed Sep 26, 2007 18:22

Tomas, MI5 are not "involved" in the drug trade in Ireland. To say this indicates how far away from reality you are. Everything that is wrong with Ireland cannot be blamed on the brits, no matter how much you wish. In fact, the Irps are more involved in drugs than any brits.

Eirigi, you say that the last two treaties have solidified british rule. Since 1994, SF have been part of this solidification process. 1998 was the GFA part of the process. Where the hell had your members been for those past 10-12 years. Where? They had been out promoting this SF strategy!! They had been out ridiculing other anti-GFA republicans!!

by Frank Wed Sep 26, 2007 20:58

Eddie where would you prefer Eirigi personnel to be, where they are or where they were? Some people view political developments through the prism of an ability to do something about it. I've no doubt that many within the provisional Movement looked upon developments in this way and actively tried to do something about it because they believed, justifiably, that that movement had the strength and resources to effect change. That its leadership acted contrary to this is not grounds to level indignancy at those who now choose to walk away from them. Inertia is not a base for criticism.