Chavez loses Referendum

by Pat - none Tue Dec 11, 2007 22:29 none none

Sorry barry, I just dont have faith in revolutionary leaders anymore.
George Orwell's Animal Farm keeps replaying over and over and over.
Young people might have faith, we all did in our younger years, but the older ye get the more you realise that everything is just a crock of shit.
In time, Hugo will follow in the footsteps of all the other profiteers.

by Barry - 32 csm Tue Dec 04, 2007 23:08

so he never intended carrying through any of his promises , twas all a bluff ? Only concerned with himself . Failed revolution , by 2% of a ballot .
His freindship with Iran too pat , dont forget that !!
whatever you do .

by pat - none Tue Dec 04, 2007 13:03 none none

Hugo was going along at a nice pace, he was gathering thrust and respect. Then he made a bollox of it by trying to change the constitution so he could stay on as presedent for ever and ever and ever. He brought the finger of suspicion on himself. At that point his own future welfare was his main concern. If he intended carring through all the promises he made about improving the welfare of odinary people, then they would have no problem electing time after time. When he suggested changing the constitution so he could remain on as elpresedent, he lost my trust. It appears to be the early stages of another failed revolution. The signs are all there, just read them.

by Barry - 32 csm Mon Dec 03, 2007 23:30

theyve explained their position pretty succinctly , much more succinctly than iosaf as usual , as they have in numerous contra statements . It also appears they regard any Venezuelan political group who challenges their attacks on the Bolivarian revolution as artificial entities as opposed to people who disagree with them and their actions . Like them Iosaf is being dishonest . These people are utterly opposed to the Bolivarian revolution , as ideologically entrenched against it as the militarist right , Stalin Gonzales , the bourgeouisie , catholic Bishops and the CIA . Por ahora , all have found common cause and secured a victory by the narrowest of margins .
pats on the back all round are called for .

by iosaf Mon Dec 03, 2007 21:54

There are estimated to be 27,483,200 Venezuelans by the Venezuelan government statistics office forecast based on the 2001 census of whom an estimated 511,784 people are "indiginous" http://www.ine.gov.ve/

Since the end of the 20th century and the rise of Chavez to power, they have enjoyed one of the most impressively succesful literacy programs in the world. Yesterday 16,109,664 of them were entitled to vote including Venezuelans in foreign states ( a right not afforded any Irish citizen).

Total votes cast : 9,002,439 or 55.89%
of which 8,883,746 or 54,58% were validated meaning 118.693 or 1,31% were invalid, spoilt or blank.
Abstention stood at 7,107,225 - 44.11% which is not unusually high for Venezuela. A previous trip by the nation to the polls saw abstention of approx. 65% blamed on voter fatigue rather than the CIA because the government liked the result of that bit of 35% electorate doing democracy. & god help any lefty who compared such figures to the likes of the UK's council elections or the narcostate of Colombia. It was just a coincidence that they all registered the same amount of voter fatigue back then. Obviously things are better now with over 55% of Venezuelans voting. It's not Russia, and it's not England.

The referendum posed two blocks of reforms.

Block A was put together by Hugo Chavez & printed up in a dinky little blue book form by the lucky firm who placed the right tenders & knew the right people. These proposed reforms to Articles: 11, 16, 18, 64, 67, 70, 87, 90, 98, 100, 103, 112, 113, 115, 136, 141, 152, 153, 156, 157, 158, 167, 168, 184, 185, 225, 230, 236, 251, 252, 272, 299, 300, 301, 302, 303, 305, 307, 318, 320, 321, 328, 329, 341, 342, 348.

It was rejected by the slim majority of the enfranchised who voted in the following percentages & numbers :-
4.230.699 votes Si! meaning 49,29% & 4,504,354 votes No! meaning 50,70%

Block B was put together by the Venezuelan Congress & proposed reforms to Articles : : 21, 71, 72, 73, 74, 82, 109, 163, 164, 173, 176, 191, 264, 265, 266, 279, 289, 293, 295, 296, 337, 338, 339.

It was rejected by the slim majority of the enfranchised who voted in the following percentages & numbers :-
4,335,136 votes or 48,94% Si!
4,522,332 votes or 51,05% No!

both blocks may be read in their original versions at this site
http://www.cne.gov.ve/elecciones/referendo_constitucion...a.pdf

There is ongoing analysis & comments of what happened, what could have happened, what might happen next from every hue of political opinion & prejudice - But obviously the website http:www.venezuela.indymedia.org is to be mentioned, even if some readers on that (spanish language) site are complaining that the referendum hasn't or didn't generate enough attention. Frankly I reckon there are other things to think about now. Complete results may be read here
http://www.cne.gov.ve/noticiaDetallada.php?id=4348

Hugo Chavez strikes a prayerful pose after voting in the referendum which confirms he may not stay legally in office after 2013

by gurgle, ribbid, hmmmmmm Mon Dec 03, 2007 21:00

Jayzhus. I concur it's a "win-win" : up to a point. & I really hope Hugo brings down the rhetoric a few grades - he could knock about half an hour of each speech too. & whittle down the enemies of the people list. You know - just keep it to the CIA. & perhaps just maybe - tal vez he could get himself a new Mrs Chavez like we told him too ages ago, & not threaten to cut all ties with Spain and its businesses (where most Venezuelan migrants & overseas voters are) on the night before a referendum in the same gurgling rant as he brings everyone through the teeth sucking, jaw gnawing gum gnashing, eyes up to pretty heaven in utter desperation @ the we the people & the I your leader ..,

Ah.
Oh.
but of course ye don't get that - do you?
It's all just the bolivarian revolution versus the CIA for you lot. Well we on the anarchosindicalist left, are on the side of the bolivarian revolution. Don't forget that. I congratulate Hugo on being prevented by the people of Venezuela from being anymore of a Caudillo.

..... Now back to work.

by Timmytheman Mon Dec 03, 2007 18:15

Heed well Senor Cozens chilling rant.

It is the sort of nonsense that could have emanated at anytime from the elites withinf the Khymer Rouge or the aparatchics of one of the KGB funded insurgencies that caused so much grief accross the third world before the unlamented demise of the USSR.

Cozens doesn't much like the verdict of the people of Venezuela expressed in a free election. He firstly implies that the Venezuelans were too stupid to vote the "correct" way. Then he suggests several hackneyed ways in which the result of the vote might be subverted, Sorry Senor Cozens, we have seen it all before in Eastern Europe where the people were delivered from righ-wing fascism to left wing fascism by exactly the tactics urged in this article.

The reality is that the referendum result was a great victory for the Venezuelan people. The election of Chavez was also a great victory for the people. This is a win win scenario for the people and we should all rejoyce. The people have given a mandate for reform AND for limited fovernment. They have told Chavez that they support reform but not dictatorship and that the people and not Chavez are the ultimate determinants of their own future.

Three cheers for the evolution of a maturing democracy.

by pat c Mon Dec 03, 2007 13:43

Heres an account from someone who is based in Caracas. It was posted to the RedQsuare2 list and afaiaa it is not online elsewhere.

From a trade unionist who works with the International Hands Off Venezuela Campaign:

what happened?

I don’t think that I have ever felt so physically and mentally exhausted. Physically, because I sleep on a mattress on the floor of the living room and the comrades in the flat went to bed an hour ago. They had been up until 6.30am playing music and writing articles on the computer trying to analyse the results of the referendum, so sleep was constantly interrupted. Emotionally, because today I leave Caracas for Quito in Ecuador and the past 28 days here have been an emotional roller-coaster ending up in a massive crash.

What happened? When we started the blog, the signs were that the results were going to be close. The opposition was mobilising and was making inroads into areas of support, workers and people of colour, that they had never had before. Some ultra left trade union leaders like Chirinos were also calling for a No vote and therefore sowing confusion amongst some sections of workers. The pro Chavez campaign was music, songs, red flags and the handing out glossy material as if that was all to the campaign. It was devoid of content that explained. I have said all of this in previous blogs.

And then came the euphoria of the pro Chavez rally and we got carried away with the show of strength on the streets. I predicted an even greater winning margin for Chavez yet the reality on the day was that the opposition forces mobilised and Chavez’s support fell by more than 3 million compared to the presidential elections of a year ago. I should have taken more notice of the words of one of the leaders of the 23 de Enero barrio, a man called Carlos, when he said that people will turn out for the presidential elections but not for constitutional reform matters. In other words they will turn out when Chavez’s position is at stake.

As the delay from in the announcement of the results by the National Electoral Council went on into the early hours of the morning we knew that something serious was going on. Chavez had promised to resign if the proposals were rejected. Was he preparing his resignation speech?

When he did appear and spoke of the willingness of people to engage in democratic voting systems, we knew that he had lost and that the proposals for constitutional change would be shelved, POR AHORA, for now. Yet he did not resign. He still has another 5 years as president and although the changes to the constitution would have taken the revolution forward ON PAPER, the fact is that at the moment the process of the revolution is deepening on the streets, in the barrios and in the workplaces.

This will be a setback for Chavez’s supporters. And Chavez himself will now come under terrific pressure from some of is own so-called supporters in the state bureaucracy who will advocate a slowing down of the changes and an accommodation, a reconciliation with the opposition. But how in a relatively backward capitalist country like Venezuela, where the bourgeoisie is tied by a thousand threads to the interests of multinational conglomerates and imperialism and is therefore incapable of taking Venezuelan society forward, can you have a reconciliation between the forces of capital and the forces of labour? SUCH A RECONCILIATION WOULD BE AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL THE REFORMS THAT HAVE BEEN CARRIED OUT AS THE BOURGEOISIE SEEKS TO RECOVER ITS DOMINANCE IN THIS COUNTRY.

Will Chavez be able to resist these pressures? If he relies only on the state bureaucracy, no. If he now mobilises the ranks of the Socialist Party and encourages the setting up of councils in the workplaces, on the land, in the universities and barrios, and brings these councils together at local, regional and national level as alternative organs of power, then he will have a solid social and political base to carry through reforms not on paper but with the living forces of the working class, the peasantry, the marginalised sectors and the students.

We have always said that constitutions are bits of paper that reflect the balance of forces at any given moment. The real battle will be between living people outside the realms of assemblies and parliaments. Yes, the result is a setback, but only that. It is not a defeat. Many battles have been won by the Bolivarian Revolution in this war, this battle was lost. The war however continues, and has to continue, because capitalism can offer nothing to the people of Venezuela and Latin America.

A starting point in the counter attack must be the war on economic sabotage, the withholding of products from supermarkets by capitalist firms. If people have the food that they need, the basis of support can be rebuilt. The next point of attack must be to take on the state bureaucracy to weed out those who are deliberately sabotaging the pace of existing reforms and to attack head on the corruption that exists. These two measures alone IN DEEDS will do far more to reactivate the basis of Chavez’s support than ALL THE WORDS that have been spoken about the need to move towards socialism.

Darrall Cozens
Caracas
December 3rd 2007
8.15am

by Miriam Mon Dec 03, 2007 13:20

http://gamle.indymedia.no/newswire/display/21125/index.php

by Barry - 32 csm Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:42

It appears that the opposition vote hasnt risen , simply that many in the traditional chavista constituency didnt turn out . Hard line Left wing student leader Stalin Gonzales and his Bandera Rojas aligned themselves with the fascists , the catholic church and the CIA in the campaign against these radical reforms . The anarchists played their part by urging people not to turn out and support the dictator . The middle class careerists and beuraucrats that had jumped aboard the chavez bandwagon and who stood to lose everything had these reforms been passed played their part and can now continue in their campaign to stall and disrupt participatory democracy and continue with their clientelism and bourgeouis corruption .
Effectivly it was the backwardness of the various leftists sects , extremist and bourgeouis alike who seem to have been pivotal alongside the CIA in ensuring the revolutionary reforms were not passed by the slimmest of margins .

by Juan Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:14

The winds of history blow inevitably toward a pure socialist society - people must be lifted out of their false consciousness.
Chavez must take control of the masses to redirect them in the correct path which they have been led away from by traitors, plotters and imperialists.

by pat c Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:19

Well there were plenty of dirty tricks arranged by the US Embassy & the CIA. Glad you accept that Venezuela is a Democracy though.

by Pat - none Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:09 none none

Thats democracy, will he except it ?, or blame dirty tricks.....mmmmmmmmm