29th Anniversary of Sandinista Revolution

by aunty trot Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:32

Some on the 'left' would grudginly acknowledge the positive contributions played by countries like the GDR in underdeveloped countries however most Trotskyists would airbrush this out as it does not conform with their worldview. They would never criticise as harshly certain right wing charities such as goal etc.

by CÓB Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:40

Nicaragua - The threat of a good example

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=9bqvLErbfKY

by Sceptic Wed Jul 23, 2008 14:34

The GDR was totally discredited by its repression, its STATSI, its collusion in developing intelligence services and tortures methods for the like of the Baathist regimes in Damascus and Baghdad and for the Mengistu regime in Addis. Usually the more repressive the regime the bigger the GDR embassy and the greater the collusion in repression. This was certainly true in Iraq. Finally when its own people lost their fear the GDR was done down by ridicule as much as by delegitimatisation. As for the FSLN in Nicaragua it was voted out of power in 1990 as soon as there was a free election and Ortega II is a much chastened and more moderate version of the first despite the odd sop in the direction of the old style soviet party line as with Honeker's widow being given a bauble.

Its pretty pathetic that some are now looking to the GDR as an example. You did not have to live there yourself. The people who did changed the State to join with the west as soon as they could. That says it all.

by proletarian Wed Jul 23, 2008 16:19

I visited the Eastern part of germany last year and I met a lot of workers who still vote communist and would just love the old GDR to return. While this is unlikely to happen soon never say never. Bear in mind that it was imposed on Nazi Germany in the first place by the Red army victory.

While travelling around I came across a lot of fascist graffiti and anger among the workers on issues such as Turkish and other immigration. This will greatly increase when the EU brings Turkey in. Once the fascists return to power the only realistic alternative will be Communism.

by redjade Wed Jul 23, 2008 16:35

Septic: 'As for the FSLN in Nicaragua it was voted out of power in 1990 as soon as there was a free election and Ortega'

Correction, there were free and fair elections in 1984, as well. The US recognised the 1990 election because its candidate and party happened to win that time.

by Sceptic Wed Jul 23, 2008 17:20

There is no danger of a fascist takeover in Germany despite the presence of fascist graffiti and gangs. This kind of baseless conjecture is pathetic. Besides there are ways of avoiding a fascist dictatorship besides having a communist dictatorship. They amount to the same thing in many respects especially the totalitarianism and repression of freedoms. Even if Turkey was admitted to the EU (a big if) it is unlikely there would be much migration to the economically poorer former GDR States. Having travelled in and out of the GDR while it was still there one always brought a large supply of basic toiletries and medicines for ones friends there from the west. Even very basic things were always in short supply. There was no shortage of socialist slogans on posters but the things people really wanted were not there. It was striking how a westerner could travel freely between the two Germany’s and the world at large while the people who lived in the east could not travel west unless they were in the upper echelons of the party or were of advanced age and economically useless.

It was not just the Reagan administration that queried the fairness of the 1984 election in Nicaragua. Independent bodies did too. In any case this does not detract from the outcome of the 1990 election which was universally accepted and was better invigilated.

by Alex Wed Jul 23, 2008 18:55

This is a joke right?
I grew up and lived in East Germany.
I found out my neighbours and many of my parents friends were employed to spy on them by the state.
The slightest dissent at work or even in your own home could land you in prison.
It was the REAL 1984.
Many people disappeared and were never seen again.
Thousands of people risked everything to cross the Wall and reach the freedom of the West.
East Germany built walls and barbed wire fences patrolled by armed guards and dogs and overlooked by machinegunners in watchtowers and laid minefields to keep its citizens in a glorious workers utopia of grey dispiriting misery
Your nostalgia for totalitarianism is truly laughable.

I can abide silly idiots wearing CCCP and Che t-shirts but this has to take the biscuit.

by Juergen Wed Jul 23, 2008 20:22

I also come from the GDR, in fact i am writing to you from East Berlin - where unemployments is over 20%, poverty is palpable on the streets, beggars on the underground and Sbahn; peoples searching thru bins for empty bottles to get the moneys on them; no wonder, Hartz IV means surviving on €380 per month. Then there are the 1 Euro jobs. In Brandenburg - north of Berlin - a survey of school students early this year showed that a majority had a positive attitude to the GDR, because of the attitude to the GDR that they have got from their parents. Chancellorin Merkel was very upset by this and has insisted the education ministry counteract this by classes on how bad the GDR was. Now, that is laughable.
Sure, the GDR made a lot of mistakes, the political leadership failed to trust the people, but it was also faced by huge economic challenges - there was no Marshall Plan. Nevertheless, there was a totally free health and education system, there was a sense of social solidarity amongst the people and with peoples in countries that faced economic and political oppressions. that is why, margot honecker and her late husdand Erich have been honored in Nicaragua and Namibia. the honeckers did not enrich themselves nor did the SED leadership.
The idea that everyone was spied on by the stasi is highly exagerrated - but do u think that we are not being spied on here in the united germany by the west equivalent, the BND? The dissident GDR author Christoph Hein has made the point on many occasions that if the GDR peoples were so much spied upon, how come an east german woman was able in the GDR to have five babies over a period of 10 years and to have killed them at birth and buried them in her flat. The stasi clearly werent doing their jobs well, or not? It is also interesting about Christoph Hein whose critical work was published in the GDR, how because he has been critical of a united Germany his works are simply not sold in shops in West Germany, it is only in East Germany that they are openly for sale. And this is an author whose work was shortlisted for the Impac preize.
The GDR was a first attempt at state socialism on german soil. Mistakes were made and we should learn from them. But the problem was for the GDR is that it did not have a revolution, the Red Army liberated the people from fascism.
lastly, i should say that peoples in europe should not worry so much about the so-called neo-nazis; it is the racist mentality that exists in the minds of the CDU and the SPD supporters here that is the problem. The racist hatred towards the Turkish peoples here is widespread, it would be wrong to think that racism is only an east german problem, it isn’t. and might i say the greens have devised the political template that allowed them to see german troops be involved in the first war since hitler, that was in Yugoslavia. There is also recent evidence that our secret police with Green leaders support assisted the USA in the lead up to the Iraq war, pinpointing strategic targets.
sorry for writing so much.

by kevin murphy Sat Jul 26, 2008 13:37

even throughout the Hitler period the kreuzberg area of Berlin remained a left wing stronghold exisiting in the most terrifying of circumstances . After the Berlin wall went up the area caught on the western side of it was basically cleansed of its inhabitants , the communtiy was largely broken up and resettled elsewhere . West Germany accomplishd what Hitler couldnt , although many of the same people seem to have remained in charge

facism today is steadily on the rise throughout germany and particularly in the east and despite the mistakes of the DDR its still fondly remembered by many workers and young people as they watch a fascist movement get ever stronger and ever more in control of the streets by adopting quite a bit of Ernst Roehms original tavern strategy

anyway this video is a light hearted look at some of the themes associated with this thread and the DDRs assistance to progressive struggles as well as the nostalgic affection many still have towards it in germany today

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=h2mDW4xw8T8