AECI: Too Little Too Late

by Ex AECI Member Tue Aug 12, 2008 16:35

As an existing member of AECI I have to agree with everything written in the article above. I will most definitenly not be renewing as a member next year. The fact remains that AECI were all set to sign up for the €1.05 rate increase and the first their members would have known about it was when the TEEU and EPACE (one and the same) used their bully boy tatics to enforce it throughout the Industry.I can not understand the thinking behind this obsession to bring in this so called Level Playing Field in our Industry. Its starting to look more and more like the big Electrical Contractors have an overall goal of putting all small electrical contractors out of business thereby leaving the whole market to their selves. Why cant all contractors as is the case with all other business in Ireland, set the rates in their own companys (Complying with Labour Laws) that make it possible to run their own business in a cost effictive manner.The High quality electricians should be paid well to reflect their skills and experiance and the lesser quality electricians (of which there are many) should be paid less. This will give all electricians an incentive to improve to achieve better pay.
Fair play to NECI at least they are making a stand and reflecting the real views of Electrical Contractors in Ireland.

Lets hope they can save the day.

by Concerned EX AECI Member - EX Association of Electrical Contractors Ireland Mon Aug 18, 2008 21:04

I am another member who will be getting out of AECI. It is just unbelievable how they have treated their own members. It seems they have fed their own members to the wolves of the Industry (EPACE) and in fact have recieved money from EPACE for shopping their own members. How could an association that was there to repersent Employers intresets ever agree with a situation where a Union has any role in policing Employers. Now the situation has been made worse by letting the TEEU take over epace. All EPACE inspectors are TEEU employees or Ex TEEU employees. Can you imagine the stink that the Teeu would kick up if an employers body was given the role of policing employes. The whole thing is a joke, a very sick one.To make the whole situation worse EPACE have a private deal with ECA and do not bother their members. Of course this cant be proved yet as EPACE have no accountability to anyone. The whole cosy cartel was badly shown up in the high court hearing of the 28th of July. As reported in Irish Electrical Review "On the public benches those from the TEEU, ECA and EPACE sat together " See www.ier.ie for full report

I dont know what is going to happen in the future but I hope AECI has no further role in reperesenting Irish Electrical Contractors.
Going on their Track Record they should disband as soon as possible.

Hugely Concerned Electrical Contractor

PS My Name and Address is withheld because AECI would shop me to EPACE

by DeadRight - Former AECI Wed Aug 20, 2008 03:21

I agree Completely. AECI have lost their way and have forgotten why they were formed. AECI is a cosy group of established contractors who have forgotten what it is like to run a small business, They DON'T want new members and they certainly DON'T want to see NECI or the SMALL contractor succeed.
NECI have achieved far more in the short time thay have been formed, than AECI or ECA have in a long time. Its time for change so lets help NECI help us and join their campaign. Sign and send in their authorisation form (you can get it on their website www.neci.ie) - I have !! TOGETHER We can beat this

Well done NECI and thanks

by Stradbrook Wed Aug 20, 2008 14:22

For the last two years I have sent numerous correspondence to everybody from the Taoiseach to the Department of Enterprise Trade and Employment, to the Data Protection Authority and the Competition Authority in order to highlight what I see as the misappropriation of employer and employee pension funds forwarded to the unregulated TEEU/EPACE Ltd (they are one and the same now) by the Construction Workers Pension Scheme.

The AECI involvement in EPACE Ltd in which they shopped their own members/competitors (I have proof) left any member of that now defunct organisation akin to a turkey voting for Christmas. It was only a matter of time before this got out, and spelt the death knell for the AECI. Many people tried, and failed to point this out to the AECI, but no one was listening. And it’s too late now.

See the thing is once you loose site of your customers/members and start operating in a way that is that is both detrimental, and down right dishonest to your members, you’re on a hiding to nothing. We as contractors understand that basic principal the AECI clearly did not.

I myself think the NECI should make it a priority, after the challenge to the REA, to seek the return of employer/employee funds that were and currently still are being sent by the Construction Workers Pension Scheme to EPACE Ltd and now run into hundreds of thousands of euro.

The term “Set up under the auspices of the National Joint Industrial Council for the Electrical Industry”. (Quoted on the EPACE Ltd site) is a far cry from setting up a private limited company, that is answerable to no one, is really a Jobs for the boys set up, which is funded by employer/employee pension contributions, and is in essence a quasi vigilante organisation. Is this really what “Under the Auspices” means???

The NECI, and the non aligned contractors are now highlighting all the issues and if we stick together, and keep knocking on doors, and exposing what is in my view corruption then we might see a more healthy Electrical Industry.

by Paul McIntyre Mon Sep 08, 2008 14:12

The real Agenda behind the REA that is in Force in the Electrical Contracting Industry is at last becoming clear.

This is the way it works.
A large contracting company who was one of the minority who brought in the agreement succeeds in their tender for a large contract. They know that it is impossible to complete the contract while complying with the terms of the agreement. The solution is to sub-contract all the labour to other smaller companies thereby distancing themselves from the terms of the Registered Employment Agreement.
As the contract proceeds the total exposure for not complying with the agreement is shifted to the sub-contractors. These sub-contractors most likely know little or nothing about the REA and do not release the situation they are putting themselves in.
Then the body blow, the sub-contractors get inspected by EPACE or TEEU (same thing) and end up in the Labour Court. As all Electrical Contractors know you can’t win in the Labour Court and the Union proceed make up a bill for back monies owed. What formula the use and how they arrive at a figure owed is an unknown science.

Then the master stroke, the Union write to the Large Contracting Company (I have a copy of a letter) and instruct them NOT to pay the sub-contractor any more moneys.

The sub-contractor is left with a large bill from the Labour Court and an unpaid balance from the Main Contractor.
The Union is left with a large amount of money for travel and pensions that the sub-contractors employees know nothing about.
The Main Contractor is left with a job finished for a fraction of what it would have cost him to supply the labour himself.

Two big Winners, One small Loser

I think the Electrical REA is about more than Electricians Wages.

I will UPDATE you as I receive further proof.

by Neil Steedman - Irish Electrical Review Wed Sep 17, 2008 13:58

As Features Editor of 'Irish Electrical Review' I found the above comments interesting. Your readers may wish to see my report for IER of the High Court hearing on Thursday 11th September 2008, which is now on our website at www.ier.ie (NB: copyright retained).

There are currently an estimated 4,500 electrical contractors in the Republic of Ireland, of which about 420 are currently represented by the AECI (circa 360) and ECA (60) and about 950 by the NAC (415) and NECI (535) - so there are about 3,130 contractors who are not represented by any organisation. The number of 'big boys' in the ECA is unlikely to change much. It will be interesting to see what efforts are made by the AECI, NAC and NECI to gain members from those 3,130 contractors - and how successful each of them will be.

by Rusty Thu Oct 16, 2008 18:03

I am at pains to understant how somebody who led the Pay Talks on behalf of Electrical Contractors for 2007 and who by the way signed the said agreement at the Labour Court, can now be so vocal in his condemnation of that same agreement. Is he not condemming himself. Surely, if somebody is responsible for signing the last agreement to date of the REA and is now completely against it, should be keeping their head below the parapit. If he is saying that Electrical Contractors have been let down so badly at the pay talks, he must accept a large portion of the blame. There are hundreds of genuine Electrical Contractors who have been paying their electricians the agreed pay rates and conditions and who now find it difficult to survive, because some Electrical Contractors are prepared to sell their trade down the tubes and let greedy developers get electrical work done for a fraction of the true cost. There is only one winner in this whole saga and that is not the Electrical Contractor or the Electrician who carries the responsibility of signing a Certificate that ties him into responsibility for that installation and nobody will care what it might cost him down the road if anything goes wrong.

by Stradbrook Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:02

Rusty

I am not sure who you are referring to in your post, but I assume it might be Denis Judge of the NECI, if it is I have the following thoughts on your post.

The NECI IS NOT DENIS JUDGE, it is by current calculation a group of over 1000 Electrical Contractors who are fed up to the teeth of the cosy cartel that is the current status and is in the form of the Registered Employment Agreement for the Electrical Industry, and those involved who make handsomely out of it.

Rusty can you answer me the following.

1.Why should the AECI and the ECA who represent less than 10% of the industry dictate to the other 90% of us.

2.Why do CWPS collect a levy and pass this onto a private limited company EPACE Ltd, with no statutory powers, no mandate and more importantly not required by the Registered Employment Agreement and who now are sitting on nearly a million euro of funds collected from employees and employers who are in the main not aware that this money was not going into their pension.

3.Why did the AECI get involved with a non statutory inspection process and then pass this information onto EPACE who then dragged these employers through the Labour Court.

4.Why did the expenses for the Trustees of the Construction Workers Pension Scheme, 5 of which are Trade Unionists go from €15,075.00 in 2006 to €171,162.00 in 2007?

5.Why did the Construction Workers Pension Scheme hand over €354,318.00 in 2007 of employer and employee pension funds to fund a 45 million redevelopment of Canal House. Check out the CWPS 2007 accounts on their web site.

I could go on Rusty but I know the answers to these questions, and all of the answers involve MONEY. There is money in all of this, but not for us Rusty, and unless you are in some way involved with any of the organisations involved in the cartel not for you either.

Rusty this is not about Electricians wages or standards or about keeping jobs, this is about Money for the boys who are in the AECI, ECA, TEEU, EPACE Ltd, CIF and CWPS and once again the little guy pays.

Maybe if it is Denis Judge who you refer to in your post, maybe he saw the corruption and understood exactly what was going on and got out, and I for one applaud him for it.