Ruc Shoot Republican In Chest In Craigavon

by Sharon. - Individual. Tue Mar 09, 2010 23:22

Hi NicePunk !
Good to know that we can still talk . For now , anyway ?
The "wording of your replies" more than 'suggested' that you considered '...every Catholic to be a republican and every Protestant a Unionist ' - it is implicit in more than one of your posts that remain on this thread and is , as I stated , an erroneous position from which to base your argument.
You attempt to use a "quite old" survey to back-up your beliefs but you then admit "...however I do not believe we would find too many people willing to openly state that they go against the beliefs of their peers...." which suggests to me that you , yourself , are reluctant to read too much into that which you offered as 'proof' and you then state that you believe , in future surveys , people will indeed "feel comfortable" in going against the beliefs of their peers !
Were you by any chance distracted - by ,say, clutching at straws - when you put that paragraph together ;-) ?

"And I stand by my belief that positive discrimination in the PSNI is to the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland."
And I stand by my belief that the RUC/PSNI - regardless of composition - are not "to the benefit" of the (past , present or) future of this country - nor , indeed , would any British 'police force' be.
And , like yourself , I hope , I will continue to talk here until such time as one or other of us is shown a 'Section 31'-type red card again !
Thanks,
Sharon.

by NicePunk Tue Mar 09, 2010 19:11

Yeah I noticed a few replies disappeared from here.

And yes I agree that the wording of my replies suggest that I believe every Catholic is a republican and every Protestant is a Unionist. However I know this isn’t the case I myself do not fit that stereotype. However there is a hugely significant correlation between religious background and support for Unionist and Nationalist political parties. A survey carried out by the CAIN institute, Northern Ireland Social Attitudes Survey, showed that when asked about whether they were ‘Unionist’ ‘Nationalist’ or ‘Neither’ Protestants answered Unionist or Neither and Catholics answered Nationalist or neither.

I concede that the survey mentioned is now quite old but I believe it is reasonable expect that nowadays more people would be willing to state their political view and we would see a far fewer people in the neither group. This is owing to the progress made in Northern Ireland, however I do not believe we would find too many people willing to openly state that they go against the beliefs of their peers. I can’t find a more recent survey covering the same thing data but I hold out hope that the 2011 census will have a far higher rate of completion than in the past and that people will feel comfortable giving this information. (Not that I needed to point that out)

And I stand by my belief that positive discrimination in the PSNI is to the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland. And I also urge you not to feel put off by censorship please continue to share your thoughts.

by Sharon. - Individual. Tue Mar 09, 2010 18:22

Hi again , NicePunk !
I know you are not responsible , but my previous replies to your posts have , for some reason , been removed and, as such , I am reluctant to post too much of a reply to you now , in case , in doing so, I somehow offend , again, the Indymedia moderator responsible.
However , I do want to state that your whole train of thought in relation to this issue is based - erroneously - on a belief that a persons religion (Catholic, for instance) must mean that he/she has a specific political sympathy (nationalist/republican, in the instance used).
This is short-sighted of you , and is a belief which Wolfe Tone (perhaps the best known example of the fallacy of your theory ,amongst others) would disagree with !
Hope you get to read this before it disappears.
Thanks!
Sharon.

by NicePunk Tue Mar 09, 2010 15:45

First of all I do not dispute that half of the people in that area of west Belfast mentioned in the article feel that that things have got worse since the Good Friday agreement. However I do object to it being used paint a picture of life in Northern Ireland as a whole. Do you honestly believe that this is the case for everyone throughout Northern Ireland? Do you even believe that this is how all people from a Roman Catholic background feel? There is a long way to go of course, but just have a look at the Northern Ireland life and times survey and you can find out how the standard of living has improved in Northern Ireland since the Good Friday Agreement.

You seem extremely bitter about this whole matter and ready to jump at any chance to prevent a peaceful future so that you can continue to satisfy your resentful mindset. I cannot accept that Northern Ireland will never develop into a peaceful society... and why should I? Obviously there are many obstacles to overcome but acceptance of the past and a fresh and united outlook for the future is all that’s needed. And if you open your eyes you will see that most of Northern Ireland is moving on to a peaceful future with or without you.

I am very much interested hearing a more detailed opinion on why positive discrimination with the PSNI is such a bad idea? I honestly cannot understand your opinion on it with so little information.

by NicePunk Mon Mar 08, 2010 22:08

Jacqueline
Please try to look at the problems in Northern Ireland from all points of view.
I totally disagree with your statement that “Irish people should be ashamed of themselves”... for joining the PSNI. And I didn’t think I would need to point this out to anyone but what meant in by catholic and protestant in this context is people from a catholic or protestant background. The PSNI does not employ people based on being a Christian, just on their political beliefs i.e. Unionist or Nationalist, because of the political history of Northern Ireland.

In my opinion it is a courageous act for Catholics to stand up and enter the PSNI, these people have a clear sense of how the future should look (united Ireland or not) with a balanced police force that carries out its duties with the support of both sides.

Your claim that it is somehow a violation of human rights to use positive discrimination in employment is so ill thought out; its purpose is to improve equality and the rights of all the people of Northern Ireland. Furthermore you suggest bringing it to the European Courts... Do you not realise that it was in fact the European courts that helped to enforce this positive discrimination law?

I don’t know a lot about the history of the British intelligence in Northern Ireland but then again not many people do. There is a lot of speculation, rumours and propaganda. However I do accept that they have employed underhand tactics to prevent organisations like the IRA from carrying out their plans.

We all know about the history of the police in Northern Ireland so let us change that! Do Not encourage continued separation and sectarianism. I care not for police, military, or national borders. All I wish for is a peaceful future in which all people in Northern Ireland enjoy equal opportunities and are united as one.

by Jacqueline Fallon Mon Mar 08, 2010 20:38

I disagree that there has been ‘great achievement’ in Stormont - it is after all still governed and controlled by British imperialists - it is not independent of Britain. For instance, if Stormont politicians want to rent a luxury house, or pay for a collection of x-rated movies, or desire extra expenses to pay for a toy boy in the future, or other such dubious expenses, then they have to, unfortunately for them, go cap in hand to the British imperialists in Westminster and beg for it - they do not have the independence or resources to raise the funds themselves.

Also, with regard to policing powers, my understanding is that the main trouble with policing was always with political policing and the Special Branch/British intelligence agents in MI5/MI6 who have secretly killed so many, and have continuously played a deadly game with the lives of Irish people, deciding in London or in the well established military intelligence compound in Holywood, which Irish person lives and which Irish person dies - in order to preserve their professions as world renowned masterminds in death. The so-called ‘policing powers’ are a fraud, a mirage, and will not expel MI5 from the six counties - and MI5 is the real force commanding policing in the 6 counties - the PSNI are merely support and eyes and ears on the ground for them.

I am disgusted if there are people out there attacking ambulances and fire brigades - these are vital services for any community and should be protected at all times. The PSNI is a different ‘kettle of fish’, as it is not an ordinary police force, it is akin to the British military army and its tactics are quite similar. The PSNI’s role is to protect British imperialist establishment in the six counties of Ireland and to kill those who actively wish to smash it. Irish people should be ashamed of themselves for joining a British imperialist police force (“PSNI”) and to me it is an extremely unpatriotic act. When the country is united, only then will I support people joining an All Ireland police force - although I wish to God that we did not need to have police forces, as I can't stand them myself.

Speaking of God, I do not care how many Catholics or Protestants, Hindu or Muslim people join the PSNI - it should be nobody’s business what religion somebody is, that is a personal matter for them - no employer should have the right to ask about a person’s religion, that is unjust and discriminatory. I would advise people to take an action to the European Court against this intrusiveness and unnecessary discrimination when seeking employment. It just goes to show how fucked up everything is, that you think it is a good idea that there are Catholics joining the ungodly PSNI - don’t you see how ridiculous and blatantly sectarian that sounds? It sounds a truly awful employment policy to me, that you have to be a specific religion to obtain a job and worrying that you think it is so good. Anyway, no authentic Christian would join the PSNI, the work it carries out is unchristian - could you imagine Jesus Christ shooting anyone!!!

by NicePunk Mon Mar 08, 2010 18:18

In the area of craigavon that all this is going on there is a hardcore of so called IRA members who do not have the respect of the republican people of the immediate surrounding area or indeed the rest of northern ireland.

I live close to the area. Those involved in trying to bring northern ireland back to the dark days have turned their neighbourhood into a ghetto. Police, fire brigade and ambulances are called into the area with the intention of stoning them and causing a riot. The police are called in to investigate hoax bomb threats and burgalries and then attacked. Are you all forgetting the recent murder of Constable Stephen Carroll who was shot after going into craigavon to follow up on a call made by a resident. These people have made a normal life in the area impossible, imagine being a young teenager growing up there and the pressure to adopt the extreme views of these terrorists and thugs.

Northern Ireland has come a long way in recent years. I beg you all to stop supporting the acts of these people trying to bring us back to the way things were, that will benefit no one and make the lives of many people an unneccessary struggle.

Look at the facts at the moment. Sinn Fein and the SDLP enjoy great support and have been accepted into the political ring as equals. The PSNI is still undergoing changes in its makeup on the way to a 50% Catholic and 50% other religion quota. I think currently it is somewhere between 27%-30% catholic. This is a great achievement for equality and now that figure is set to continue rising because membership of the PSNI is not seen as a betrayal by most catholics in the current environment. Dont support the dissidents they are trying to make catholics feel bad for joining the PSNI and if they were to be successful then we would be back to the stone age again.

by Jacqueline Fallon Sun Mar 07, 2010 22:09

This shooting of a Republican protestor is appalling and should be condemned by all decent people. I do not understand why it was not on the news, and it's disturbing that so many acts of brutality against Republicans go unpublicised in the mainstream media.

Also, I find it worrying that an Irishman who protested publicly about MI5 harassment has ended up dead. It's a sign of a sick society when Irish people have been shot and murdered by the PSNI and MI5 and there is no public outcry.

There will never ever be peace in Ireland, whilst British imperialist intelligence agents are permitted to operate freely here, and those with so called 'political power' do absolutely nothing about it.

p.s. 'JayP' obviously agrees with the shooting of unarmed protestors - such a person is not worth communicating with.

by Sharon. - Individual. Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:59

Hi Jayp !
"the RUC havent been around for the last 10 years, its the PSNI."
Not so , according to those that 'pay the piper' (ie Westminster) -
"Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
Part I
Name of the police in Northern Ireland.— (1) The body of constables known as the Royal Ulster Constabulary shall continue in being as the Police Service of Northern Ireland (incorporating the Royal Ulster Constabulary).
(2) The body of constables referred to in subsection (1) shall be styled for operational purposes the “Police Service of Northern Ireland”.
(3) The body of constables known as the Royal Ulster Constabulary Reserve shall continue in being as the Police Service of Northern Ireland Reserve (incorporating the Royal Ulster Constabulary Reserve).
(4) The body of constables referred to in subsection (3) shall be styled for operational purposes “The Police Service of Northern Ireland Reserve”.
"The body of constables known as the Royal Ulster Constabulary shall continue in being....."
(From here - http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?activeTextDoc...54584)
Just because you haven't heard something "on the main news..." doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
Thanks anyway !
Sharon.

This British 'police force' doesn't exist , according to Jayp !

by Jayp Sun Mar 07, 2010 09:29

the RUC havent been around for the last 10 years, its the PSNI, glad to hear that the psni have a good aim also. Didnt hear it on the main news, load of shite. signs on with the interest it has generated on this site.