Demonstration Against the Anglo Bailouts

by Gan Ainm Wed Sep 29, 2010 13:48

Funny how a capitalist can breach the gates of Leinster house, while SWP leader Kieran Allen protected them from the left!
Strange days indeed!

by Economist Wed Sep 29, 2010 14:21

"The €35 Billion we gave Anglo Irish Bank is enough to employ everyone on the Live Register for 3 years on 33,000 a year. "

And you would meanwhile be saving billions on the social welfare bill while stimulating the local economy into life

Just shows you how their solution is the worst of all options. Even worse than just giving it away to the unemployed.

Austerity measures just mean the people who spend all their income in the local economy won't have any money and so more businesses will go to the wall and more people will become unemployed. and the gains minus the losses will be a lot less. Diminishing returns but highly destructive to the economy and the community.

I always wondered why we didn't just open an office in every capital and give loans to viable small business from that 35 billion whilst letting the bondholder gamblers and banks just fuck off. They took a gamble and expected they might fail. Needless to say some shenanigans likely went down behind closed doors. There is no other rational explanation for this insane course of action

Hypothetically:
If I was a sociopath bondholder, I'd chance my arm by calling in a government / banker guy. Then id say "I stand to lose this much". I'll give YOU 25% if you make the taxpayer pay instead ok. It's just good business.

And you actually expect FF guys to refuse that sort of money?? Why are we all so surprised at this?

by Tara Tara Tara Wed Sep 29, 2010 15:46

Full support for the Dáil Truck Driver!

by níl aon ainm agam Wed Sep 29, 2010 18:17

Today was a day for the protests of tens of thousands, indeed millions across Europe. The actions of the truck driver totally distracted from the thousands on the ICTU march and other protests. While this bloke may be voicing his anger against Anglo Irish, he's also giving the establishment a tool to hit protesters with. It now allows Gardaí to beef up security. I have very little sympathy with him to be honest.

PS - not sure why Michael Gallagher is having a go at Socialist Party and calling them 'messers'. Indymedia can do without reporters grinding their own axes in the form of a 'report'.

by Stocks Wed Sep 29, 2010 18:51

The gardai don't need any excuses to beef up security whenever they like to protect our lords and masters and their corporate / banking cronies. Look at rossport. They were beating up peaceful protestors for ages no problem. This guy actually had the courage to make a brave,creative and strong non violent direct action. I say we support him. He has probably inspired others to get out and protest. More than the unions have I reckon.
As for the sellout union leaders, they didn't exactly break their asses to get people out today. There were over 80,000 out in belgium and it's not nearly as bad as here. They have been cosying up at the trough with FF for far too long and its hard to tell whose interests they are serving anymore. We the people have to get out on the streets and do it ourselves. we can't rely on the unions.

Lets get 100,000 people out there next time and march on the dail with a pile of eggs, toilet rolls and rotten fruit and give them a real fright. They have gotten away with robbing us blind long enough. Thats the least they deserve. We should bring back the stocks. And I'm not talking investments here!!

35 billion euro for anglo. Thats 7-8 years of austerity measures for every man woman and child in the country just to save investments of a bunch of rich speculators who can't believe how stupid we all are.

And,as someone else mentioned, 35 billion would also employ everyone on the live register for several years at a salary of 33,000 euro each. Thats how much they have stolen from us. And we will really feel it in our public services very soon, just as harney has taken away our public hospital services and replaced them with a dysfunctional profit driven american model. Y'know, the one in michael moore's "sicko". The one that doesn't work at all for poor people.

by Gumshoe Wed Sep 29, 2010 19:09

Is he out yet?

by Conor. M Wed Sep 29, 2010 19:35

''Join the Socialist Party for Workers and Messers Today.''

The 'Socialist Party for Workers and Messers' are actually different. Nothing to do with the SP .

And I dont know what your complaing about. This whole ICTU demo was a sham, the WSM actually done a good report (well, good... you know what I mean)

by níl aon ainm agam Wed Sep 29, 2010 23:24

Why would anyone join a 'organisation' that self styles itself as messers. Try to actually build support from the workers and unemployed and you'd realise how mad that actually is.

I don't have much sympathy with this truck protester. He distracts from a protest called by union and community groups. Today was small compared to other countries. But it was a step ahead from the RTW protests that had only 200-300 on them max. It was the act of a desperate man that I can understand but do not support at all. It's the mass working class that need to be mobilised. that will change society and bring down the government. No driving in Dáil gates.

by Michael Gallagher Thu Sep 30, 2010 05:27

I just realised that the "Socialist Party for Workers and Messers" is spam.

Obviously it's by one of the messers. I had copied it from Facebook, but left out the links (luckily enough).

I should get more rest and then maybe I will spot these idiots posts.

Pics 6-10. The man on the left was arrested on the protests against Balir's book signing, he appears in the district court later today. http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/sep2010/12._bb_img_0538.jpg

by MG Thu Sep 30, 2010 05:42

I can understand why the truck driver did this and I wouldn't condemn him for it, but I don't think it did distract from the demos...even when RTE do put out/report the news of demos etc, it's never the full story and always off balance.

I'm glad that the driver didn't commit suicide, like so many people recently. Including twenty nine taxi drivers, disillusioned young people
and everyday workers who were under enormous stress as a result of this governments disastrous policies.

http://facebook.com/home.php?#!/profile.php?id=1019818043

by Gan Ainm Thu Sep 30, 2010 09:38

Well done on your analysis, your comments are being discussed in my workplace, a big shift for a conservative setting.

by our country messed up due to Thu Sep 30, 2010 19:02

fair play to him,i hear he is going to be out on bail,it is such a pity the likes of him was arrested,when he had a non violent protest,that simply made a point,he had the backbone to do what had to be done,confront the real criminal fraudsters,i have paid over 10,000 in tax of this year,and where does my money go,like other peoples money??on the banksters and their junkets,not to mention the FAS junkets in waterford,the top bank officials were not even brought to court over their mismanagement of funds,some of them even lined their pockets,they knew well what was coming but feigned ignorance in the face of it all,which shows,how stupid the forbes list dublin 4 crowd think we are.

Where are Fianna Fail on the issue of agriculture,The EU bribed Fianna Fail to stop growing crop,what about all the meat hides,where are they going,are they being used??

Fianna Fail have no backbone,and do NOT know when to stand up for our countries interests!

They are all in it together..

by whoaretherealcriminals Thu Sep 30, 2010 19:10

ministers were supposed to be meeting today after the 3 month holiday and i wonder what exactly got done on that day...?
We have overpaid consultants in the HSE who only work 2 day weeks,you never see them in a hospital at 2 ' o clock in the morning to give their VALUED OPINION.

by the recession continues Thu Sep 30, 2010 19:18

a lot of the top brass in AIB,got away with ruining our country too,where are the recriminations for them,they even got shifted from there to some of the other banks,while others got a hefty pension out of the whole thing,i suppose if their all corrupt,they have to be kind to each other,thats the way it works in the HSE too!

And what about FAS,and all that dead money,it doesn't rejuvenate the economy,there is no payout back to TAX REVENUE as a result.

Why not cut FAS loose,that would be a good start and maybe inject it elsewhere..

I heard some idiots on the radio today and some D4 enthusiast,in their whiney D4 voices,talking about how the recession was not as bad as the 80's or the 60's..Technology and communications may have helped in these disasterous times,but this is actually the worst debt our country has ever seen..

I know everybody has an opinion on this,but seriously what the hell are they doing..

by HSEharney Thu Sep 30, 2010 19:24

our government gave rehab care 54 million and the head of rehab care angela kearns,who gets funding elsewhere,REFUSED to state how much she was earning,why did the government pay an NGO (non government organisation),54 million,and they haven't given much back in PRSI either,as they have FAS FREE LABOUR THERE,that is hardly an investment,with this type of mispending,it is no wonder we are in trouble..

by same ol..same ol..d4 crowd.. Thu Sep 30, 2010 19:26

The Dail needs to change,we cannot blindly follow the british model anymore,look at our laws even,nobody in government has really changed anything for the better they are still working on the same old system..

by TAX Thu Sep 30, 2010 19:47

The situation is now..We are borrowing to pay for the current politicans and bankers wages for the next couple of years,while we are supposed to take the hit for what we did not create,we didnt take the bribe,and we didnt turn the other cheek,we didnt look the other way while these corporate monsters were shortchanging our farmers at every step,where is our export..

by Michael Gallagher Thu Sep 30, 2010 20:15

There is a common denominator to all of the above valid points. Ask yourselves what can you do to assist in the fight for change?

I'm off to that meeting in the Teacher's Club, very late already.

Thanks for looking at the essay and your contributions, more pics from this album and others on my Facebook profile.

http://en-gb.facebook.com/people/Michael-Gallagher/1019...18043

Pics © Michael Gallagher 2010.

by liars and crooks Thu Sep 30, 2010 23:03

RTE never told us what was coming they are all the same,media and politics in ireland is the same thing,you think these people don't network,im sure you could say,well if they knew they would print the story,thing is some of these media got involved in the dodgy investments in the celtic boom years also..

by Get Real Fri Oct 01, 2010 00:19

We are just paving the way for FG AND LABOUR-We don't know how to organise elections on the left they are laughing at us.

by our point to protest our right.. Fri Oct 01, 2010 00:25

Regardless of who we are allegedly ''paving the way for'',we should go out and protest with the point of not taking tax hikes and pay cuts,the working class and the unemployed even are taking the hit for the big wigs who sold us all out ,by accepting bribes,just look at the ombudsman who did the stress test for the banks before the collapse saying everything was fine after being wined and dined by FF.

Mobilise the working class they should go out in force on a non work day like a saturday or sunday,maybe wear a hat and shades if their afraid of being snapped up by the irish times or the governments other media wing ..RTE.

by bribes Fri Oct 01, 2010 00:28

This recession is worse than the 80's,and even the 60's,we were sold out by our government,they were accepting bribes by anybody who wanted to influence the way this country was going for their own gain.

We should excercise our right to protest,while we still have this right,who knows what FAST one they are trying to pull under our very noses..

The only work they get done in the DAIL is to suit themselves..Roll on the FAS junkets

by westillhavedemocracy Fri Oct 01, 2010 01:32

ok so one could ask the question why bother voting them out,or even protesting,well heres why,because if we don't vote them out,we are not getting OUR message across to the NEXT political leaders we vote in,that they should tread carefully..as when the four year term ends we could kick you out next..at least we have democracy and not a dynasty or a situation like the tribes in libya,with their leader being in power for over 40 years..

by FF Fri Oct 01, 2010 01:42

By december 2010,in the budget a little birdy told me,there will be water charges to the tune of 500 euros per year for the average household,and meters installed in homes who do not already have them..
Water water everywhere,water water we cannot share...............................................................................

The big wigs still got the golden handshake after all the financial troubles they put on our shoulders,and we are taking the cuts,and price tax hikes on our food,and other services we may need week to week.

Tax will be increased on most products that we consume,we are at the mercy of the banks and supermarkets,if we had to fend for ourselves,it would be too expensive right now,as they want to ensure we are dependant on them..SHOULD THAT WORRY US ALL

Complacency and being silently compliant,is indeed our worst enemy,don't think your lucky to have your job,because you are not.

I went to the banks before the recession,with my new business plan,who i was told was flawed but could plug a gap in the market very easily,as there were some people in east europe already doing this.

But i was turned away,even though i had all my homework done correctly.

The people in government now,as it stands,have no clue,i will tell you why,most of them do not even have qualifications,they do not even know the basics of business studies,mathematics or introductory economics or even irish law.

by FF failing you.. Fri Oct 01, 2010 01:44

''By december 2010,in the budget a little birdy told me,there will be water charges to the tune of 500 euros per year for the average household,and meters installed in homes who do not already have them..
Water water everywhere,water water we cannot share...............................................................................''

Maybe some families in D4 may find this slightly irksome and a little annoying and sooooooooooo 2006,but to the rest of us it is a pretty big f*** deal..

by chilren_of_lir Fri Oct 01, 2010 02:16

An interesting debate here on Tonight with Vincent Browne

http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentb...27577

by Economist Fri Oct 01, 2010 09:24

35 billion euro= Standard & Poors estimate of Anglo bailout

34 billion euro= FF final estimate

455,000 = current massaged live register figure

35 billion / 455,000 = 76,923

76,923 / 3 = 25,641

So it would actually be 25,641 per year for everyone on the live register for a period of 3 years

This drops to 24,908 per year if you take the government figure as opposed to S&P's. Still very comfortable compared to the dole

If instead you just gave each and every one that lump sum of 76,923 provided they didn't sign on for another ten years you would be better off and so would they. Many would set up local businesses and lots of that money would circulate in the local economy unlike the bailout which wings its way into foreign bank accounts, never to be seen again.

by Michael Gallagher Fri Oct 01, 2010 22:35

David Begg and Jack O'Connor were elected by workers as representatives for workers concerns. They quote James Connolly and Jim Larkin often, but, their actions -siding with the government and bosses- and in-actions -not calling for a general strike- makes both of them liars and hypocrites.

Begg and O'Connor et al are messengers for Social Democrat's, not Socialists. Therefore they should stop taking Connolly and Larkin's name in vain. They should also resign or be made to step down. Socialism is what SIPTU and most workers unions were founded from, genuine Socialism, by genuine Socialists, and Socialism is the legacy Larkin and Connolly et al left us. Genuine Socialists are only bearers of that Socialist message, we have no right to corrupt that message.

Anyone that calls themselves a genuine Socialist, has a duty to try maintain and keep that legacy alive, and enact, when and where
necessary and possible, ALL that is required under that Socialist banner, the banner of Revolutionary Socialism, the real McCoy.

All workers in all trade unions need to look at their 'leaders' and representatives (from the shop floor to the top floor) and ask this question: In who's interests are you serving and more concerned with, the bosses or the workers?

Roll on the Revolution.

Pics: © Mchael Gallagher 2010

by MG Fri Oct 01, 2010 22:44

.

© Michael Gallagher 2007

by MG Fri Oct 01, 2010 23:18

.

Pics © Michael Gallagher

by Sceptic . - None whatsoever Sat Oct 02, 2010 00:26

This situation could affect you or i some sunny day , think about it .

by tired marcher Sat Oct 02, 2010 18:01

if is typical of irish lefties to attack someone who is showing them up and doing something effective. All they want is not to rock the boat and to keep having their silly marches that hardly anyone turnes up to. What was on the last effort 1500 at best. We need more truckers who are not afraid of some action and less hot air and silly marches going nowhere.

by Pseudonym Sally Sun Oct 03, 2010 00:08

'it is typical of the lefties to attack someone who is showing them up'
- tired marcher

'typical of irish lefties to attack someone who is showing them up and doing something effective. All they want is not to rock the boat and to keep having their silly marches that hardly anyone turnes up to'

I can see your point, but its not fair to slop everyone with the same brush. Also, I don't think its fair to presume that anyone on the left in Ireland doesn't want to rock the boat. Thats the point. And even the small marches, yeah, sometimes it seems pathetically pointless - but they still happened. And someone, somewhere at least went to the effort of organising that protest. Which is rather more than the absolute vast majority of Irish citizens ever do, politically speaking.

When individuals materialise their anger and sympathy towards a radically different community and world, they act. They have, and they will again. It all depends on your own actions and feelings.

Just attacking a broad range of (presumably) Dublin socialist groups and 'tying the rest in' is not cool. Not cool at all.

~Let the banks burn~

by theflylife Sun Oct 03, 2010 14:40

Why did we bail the banks out,when the ripped us all off..The government were happy to get the backhanders off them banksters,so i guess they had to help each other out,if they didn't there would be more unseen scandals coming to the fore about now,journalism in ireland still hasnt dug out the most courrupt of all..our local county councillors.
Our irish politicians were the laughing stock of the world,they were treating themselves to extras their country could not afford,while other dignitaries could afford their expenses,our leaders were borrowing out of our tax,they had a lot of expenses they did not deserve as they did not burn the midnight oil for it,now did they..Just look at our country now,they got ripped off,and bribed at every corner,there even laughed about on T.V stations around the world..

by bribe merchants not politicians Sun Oct 03, 2010 14:46

They took eu bribes,at the expense of killing our farming industry and other export industrys,while semi state agencys like fas,were popping up and draining the government funds.

They were giving to non grass roots businesses like rehab care to the tune of 54 million per one year,while discouraging our grass roots businesses,our export industry suffered.

They never stood up to the EU in our name,and they took the bribe..They never encouraged grass roots businesses(would be entrepreneurs like you and i),instead they let the corporate bullies take over,while they then F* off to places like india,when it wasn't so sweet for them..They never put pressure on the banks to encourage and support our local businesses,do you know how difficult it is to get a business loan..

The only people who get bailed out are the very people who ruined us financially,the banks.

Our industry cannot grow like bill stated,as everything is too expensive,we need to be brave and need to lower our prices of everything that way people will come to ireland and people will buy from ireland and we will be able to compete.

by Michael Gallagher Sun Oct 03, 2010 19:17

People in Ireland should continue thinking, talking and spreading the word and the mood for taking our country back from the sharks, leeches and bloodsuckers that have ruined us. The worst has yet to come, IT'S TIME TO RISE UP!!!!

A quote from an eleven year old boy when his father asked him "...and son, what are you going to write on your placard for the protest?"

His son replied, "I'm only eleven and I'm already broke!"

The quote of the century!

The father was live on Joe Duffy, Friday October 1st.

It's on one of the podcast from 1st Oct on this link

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_liveline.xml

James Larkin - Revolutionary Socialist - Keep the Red Flag Flying - Pic: ©Left

James Connolly - Revolutionary Socialist - With the Starry Plough - Pic: ©Left

by f*** those ffers Mon Oct 04, 2010 02:16

I have paid more than my fare share into my pension, and it is being taken away from me this year,i am going to take legal action over this,as the contract i previously entered into over forty years ago,did not clarify certain circumstances,therefore i will be going forward with a couple of collegues,there is no way i am letting this pension go,i am entitled to it.

Do not let the governments let you take the hit stand up and fight!

by imsickofwhining Mon Oct 04, 2010 16:25

Our dying culture along with all this corruption is the problem,first we had the churches,then the banks and our government,things need to change,people who run for politics must not have vested interests(eg running the banks,or owning some key properties in dublins capital),our dublins elite,who have other business interests are in politics,this needs to stop!

by children_of_lir Thu Oct 07, 2010 05:45

First of all, am I right in thinking that in September 2008, Taoiseach Brian Cowen and Finance Minister Brian Lenihan met with the respective Chairmen as well as executives from the Bank of Ireland and AIB Bank, and these bankers had already been informed about the Anglo Irish Bank's insolvency? And, it was at this meeting with Cowen and Lenihan, that the banks' chairmen and executives proposed the introduction of a bank guarantee scheme?

I would like to know what exactly were Cowen and Lenihan told by the bankers about Anglo Irish Bank? There has to be a written record of this September 2008 meeting.

Cowen and Lenihan subsequently introduced in the Dail the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill -- the bank guarantee scheme. The Credit Institution (Financial Support) Act 2008 was passed in mid-October 2008.

Again, am I right in thinking that during the debate on the Bill in 2008, the Dáil was not informed that the Anglo Irish Bank was insolvent?

It's worthy of note that Cowen was Finance Minister up until May 2008 when Lenihan succeeded him.

In my opinion, it's no excuse that Taoiseach Brian Cowen TD or Finance Minister Brian Lenihan TD were totally clueless about Anglo Irish Bank's insolvency when they pushed through the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill (bank guarantee scheme) in the Dail in 2008, perhaps effectively gagging a fair and robust debate on this issue.

Cowen promised in 2008 that the bank guarantee scheme would have no ramifications for the taxpayer, however, two years later it has become a full-blown bailout of the banks.

I find it quite arrogant that Cowen must think that I just fell off a turnip truck and will believe any story he tells me to divert from the country's economic woes. Don't the Irish people deserve to know the truth.

After all, the buck ultimately stops with both Cowen and Lenihan for the country's governance.