Hare coursing in DEEP DEEP TROUBLE!!

by watch the link Fri Jan 14, 2011 19:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTi2k6nfJSo

by Concerned Fri Jan 14, 2011 23:45

Hope it goes really well and the ICC lose big time. It's astonishing that hare coursing still continues anywhere in the world. It does'nt bode well for Irish society when events like this are allowed.

by Des - None Sat Jan 15, 2011 18:10

Good to hear such a disgusting practice may be stopped. How anyone can enjoy watching animals being torn apart is beyond me!

by Friend of the Irish Hare Sat Jan 15, 2011 18:42

Could this be the beginning of the end of live hare coursing in Ireland?
The Commercial Court in Dublin will on Tuesday decide how big a bill for damages will be awarded against the Irish Coursing Club. The bill could be massive...and could sink not just the ICC but the squalid practise of live hare coursing itself.
The ICC will learn on Tuesday just how big a bill for damages it faces after losing its breach of contract case involving a property developer (Greenband Investments). The club will have to fork out millions of Euro, and it's already in deep financial trouble. At the very least it will probably have to sell off Powerstown Park, in Clonmel venue for the annual three-day festival of cruelty (this year's event is due to be held shortly), among other parts of its property portfolio.

All who admire and cherish the Irish Hare, and its role as part of Ireland's multi-faceted wildlife heritage, will welcome the demise of the ICC, if that is the outcome on Tuesday and I hope that anyone who objects to the cruelty of hare coursing will join the peaceful protest outside the Dail (1 pm to 2 pm) that will coincide with the case in the Commercial Court. The demo is being organised to remind TDS that any bailout of the ICC would be offensive to all who care about the welfare of animals and the conservation status of the Irish Hare. It may seem unlike that Fianna Fail would want to bail out the ICC, but I'd put nothing past that shower.

The Greens should make sure this doesn't happen and Environment Minister John Gormley should now REVOKE the hare netting license he so freely issued in August after all the breaches of the license that have been brought to his attention by animal welfare groups. He has nothing to lose. Now is his change to take on hare coursing the way he took on the stag hunters last year.

I notice that coursing fans are in a panic over the way things are developing, as these comments on the Greyhound Knowledge Forum clearly illustrate:

www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=9¬e=670821&z=fFHU1Z

by Green Party member Sat Jan 15, 2011 18:46

Hopefully this will help the unfortunate hare and maybe embolden John Gormley. There's nothing to stop him from withdrawing the license he grants to allow the netting of hares. He's seen the long list of breaches of the hare catching license. Now's his chance to pull the plug on hare coursing!

by Mike Novack Tue Jan 18, 2011 13:01

What IS "hare coursing"?

The reason that I am confused is that IF somebody enjoyed watching dogs chase, catch, and rip apart hares I can't see that a "club" would be necessary for the purpose. So you must be describing some organized "event" (I can't call it a sport) where captive hares are released in front of dogs -- am I right?

But let's get one thing straight. If I took a dog to a field where hares were naturally present and if I did not keep the dog on lead or otherwise command the dog "NO!" the dog would most certainly take off after any hare seen or scented and if the dog were fast enough, catch it. That's the sort of critter a dog is, a predator evolved to chase and run down prey. I am not "setting the dog after the hares" but allowing the dog to express it's own natures and desires. When I prevent the dog from chasing prey I am acting against those natures and desires.

I can see legislating against this organized "sport" (if it's what I think it is). But legislating against dogs chasing hares?

by Driver. Tue Jan 18, 2011 13:18

I have driven 120 miles from Cork to Galway every week for 13 years.

I was never once stopped by a policeman.
I could have been drunk on every journey.
(A sign of a free and pretty much crime-free country I know.)

Who will police the Hare Coursers?

by Harry O'Hare Wed Jan 19, 2011 01:47

Yes this is indeed good news for the hare and for the animals rights movement , it's good news for jobs in Clonmel. and good news for south-east Tipperary as a whole. Well done to Geeenband Investments .

The dynamic property company Greenband has been at the forefront of developing rundown park and scrubland areas in the Clonmel district for over two decades . The company’s development at Showground Centre Clonmel lying adjacent to the property formerly run by the Hare Coursing Club created up to 300 jobs in the retail sector when it opened in 2009 . Showgrounds is an 11,000 sq.m.centre with 32 retail units and 360 car park spaces , and was the only shopping centre to be opened in 2009 in the whole of Ireland .

But as with the hare things certainly haven't all been easy for Greenlands . As well as this costly dispute with the Hare Coursing Club , the company has recently found itself at loggerheads with the bureaucrats at An Bord Pleanala , who lodged complaints against an extension to Showgrounds which could have provided up to 260 jobs for Clonmel. Among its “reasons” for refusing permission for the vibrant new shopping centre extension , An Bord Pleanala stated that the proposed development would undermine the “historic” town centre of Clonmel !

The quality of freedom that we associate with the hare could surely symbolize the spirit of free enterprise An Taoiseach Brian Cowen referred to when he performed the official opening of The Showgrounds Shopping Centre in October 2009 . In his speech Mr Cowen praised the “can-do” attitude of Irish entrepreneurs paying particular tribute to the “initiative and drive of the Centre's developer, Paul O’Brien of Greenband Investments “.

While it's probably true to say that the animal rights activist and the Irish property developer may not have always seen eye to eye in the past , this victory for the hares of Tipperary should surely be cause for joint celebration. Perhaps with such good will generated this could mark the start to a closer collaboration in the future . Congratulations all round .

by Jack Rabbitte Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:55

Greenband Investments' decision to sue the ICC to compel it to complete the sale of that rarely used boreen has indeed proven to be serendipitous - both for commerce and for the hare . Without that small laneway the whole Euro 31m retail development – and with it up to 500 jobs -would have been in jeopardy. At the same time the ICC has been dealt a blow from which it will hopefully never recover.

by Mike Novack Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:30

Sorry, but now I really don't understand. I had no idea that your idea of a better situation for the hares was instead of being hunted by dogs to have their habitat turned into a parking lot!

I know you can't really put yourself in the place of a different sort of animal, our minds are each adapted to our niche in the universe. But here you could at least try to make an effort. Try to imagine asking a hare "which is better or worse for you?".

If you imagine what I have been saying is pro "hare coursing" then you simply don't understand. Apparently we "environmentals" and you "animal rights" folks inhabit different universes of thought.

by Harry O'Hare Wed Jan 19, 2011 13:00

Come on now Mike , don’t give us all that " pave paradise and put up a parking lot.blather." This is a matter of principle. The hare coursers have finally been put in their place .
Sometimes it becomes necessary to destroy the hares habitat in order to save it from the supporters of hare coursing.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Jan 19, 2011 14:10

'..necessary to destroy the hare's habitat in order to save it....'

Why did I not think of it earlier...

...now all I have to do is destroy the planet to get rid of the warmongers. Brilliant.

Brilliantly hare-brained?And I consider coursing primitive, so imagine how impressed your target audience must be.

by O'Hare Wed Jan 19, 2011 14:54

I'm only kidding - satire and all that . That's what they said in the Vietnam war . "We sometimes have to destroy a village in order to save it. "

by Anti hare coursing Mon Jan 31, 2011 20:42

The case involving the Irish Coursing Club and a property developer that sued is nearing its end...it's been ongoing in the Commercial Court for the past fortnight. Some fascinating commentary on the case on "Greyhound Nuts" internet forum...good for a laugh if nothing else...

Re: Any word from legal eagles?
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2011, 09:45:59 AM » Quote

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This doesn't just affect the ICC. ALL greyhound people will have to dig them out, with hiked registration & naming fees etc... The Sporting Press will increase in price. WE ALL will have to pay the price for incompetent leadership, the same as we all have to pay for our incompetent Government. It will pee more people off with the game and they will end up leaving, as so many are leaving the Country.

Tom Brett
Administrator
Exceptional Nutter

Re: Any word from legal eagles?
« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2011, 10:30:22 AM » Quote

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At least integrity will be upheld by the ICC........unfortunately our Government dont know the meaning of the word.
Would we all take it a bit better if the people responsible for destroying this Country had to face the Courts......I would be happier and I suspect others would be as well if we knew this would not be allowed to happen again.......................the ICC's actions I believe no matter the outcome are correct and right.......some times you have to do the right thing even if it will cost you.

THE WOO
Baby Nutter

Re: Any word from legal eagles?
« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2011, 18:52:17 PM » Quote

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How can two wrongs make a right? In my opinion the present exec. found themselves in a situation where a binding contract had been entered into by the previous secretary, (rightly or wrongly, I'm not in a position to judge, only the executive have the information upon which to form an opinion).
In my view, the primary consideration of the present executive is, and should have been the protection of the ICC going forward.
Did they serve the best interests of coursing by refusing to complete the contract? Was it in the best interest of coursing to gamble on winning the high court case? Is it in the best interests of coursing to burden the members with the massive costs (legal and damages) which ensues from a breach of contract of this magnitude? To risk losing powerstown park to fund this course of action?
I don't think so, I cannot see the integrity in fighting a case that cannot be won, it takes integrity to do the right thing, and the right thing in this situation was to protect whatever assets remained in the ICC, and to protect the members.
In my opinion if they wished to challenge the way the ICC was run by the previous secretary and executive, and if they have evidence of wrongdoing they are correct to do so, they should have utilized the law of the land. This high court case was not the way to do it.

Tom Brett
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Re: Any word from legal eagles?
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2011, 19:04:44 PM » Quote

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The decision was unamious...it only became unwinnable after the judge issued hs findings....
Was that judge on the board of HRI?

________________________________________
I thought I was Green, how wrong can you be?
I have reconciled my predicament with the belief that the Hunting Community are truely Green!

THE WOO
Baby Nutter

Re: Any word from legal eagles?
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2011, 21:35:47 PM » Quote

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It was unwinnable from the start, the evidence adduced in court supports this contention, and supports the findings of the judge whose judgment was well reasoned and strong on detail.
Whether Justice Clarke is on the board of HRI is irrelevant, he declared his position at the outset and the ICC legal team were satisfied for him to hear the case. It is disingenuous, in my opinion, to raise this issue now.
At any rate, no High Court Judge would put his character into question in such a public manner, in such a high profile case, and to what end....?
The evidence speaks for itself, mistakes have been made on both sides, is it not time to stop this blinkered view of past and present executives and move on..... nobody is perfect.

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DANDEMAN
Teenage Nutter

Re: Any word from legal eagles?
« Reply #65 on: Today at 01:35:30 » Quote

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Big words indeed my learned friend Woo,there wont be too many on here who can understand that shite or scutter as it is known in Touhy.I drive a digger at night and milk a few cows by day.If I read that post out to an auld shorthorn I have here she woukd kick me into the next parish.Stick with the english(much as it grieves me)language on here Old Chappie or we will be up all night rootin through the dictionary

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Re: Any word from legal eagles?
« Reply #66 on: Today at 08:27:01 » Quote

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Quote from: THE WOO on January 30, 2011, 21:35:47 PM
It was unwinnable from the start, the evidence adduced in court supports this contention, and supports the findings of the judge whose judgment was well reasoned and strong on detail.
Whether Justice Clarke is on the board of HRI is irrelevant, he declared his position at the outset and the ICC legal team were satisfied for him to hear the case. It is disingenuous, in my opinion, to raise this issue now.
At any rate, no High Court Judge would put his character into question in such a public manner, in such a high profile case, and to what end....?
The evidence speaks for itself, mistakes have been made on both sides, is it not time to stop this blinkered view of past and present executives and move on..... nobody is perfect.

So are you saying the ICC were badly advised by their legal team?
Why would a judge sit in a case where there is a chance of a conflict of interest?

Would it be extremely rare for a judge not to exclude himself from a case where he knows some of the people involved?

by Saboteurs for national coursing meet tomorrow Tue Feb 01, 2011 19:46

Hunt saboteurs will attend the national coursing meeting on day three of the cruelty festival. We will monitor the cruelty and, where appropriate, take any action we deem necessary to advance the cause of protecting the hares.

by The Shadow Tue Feb 01, 2011 21:01

Include torturing hares with snares and taking bogous pictures with "student Filmakers" who hail from outside Ireland ????
Looking forward to seeing and filming and keeping a very close eye on ye tomrrow

by Anti bloodsports Wed Feb 02, 2011 18:38

Who tortures hares? Hare coursing clubs and those who snare them or feed them live to greyhounds in blooding sessions. Attempts to discredit anti-coursing campaigners with claims that we "rig" the cruelty of hare coursing are without foundation. Coursing clubs have terrorised many thousands of hares for sick fun. They have a lot to answer for.

by The Shadow Thu Feb 03, 2011 20:54

Attempts to discredit anti-coursing campaigners with claims that we "rig" the cruelty of hare coursing are without foundation.

You dont have to be discredited ,you already are discredited.Going by the plaver you all made with your doctored video of last year.
The Gardai investigated it,no evidence,nor could the various anti fieldsport groups involved produce at any garda station the two student film makers to make an offical statement.

You should really think your stunts through more.
BTW got some lovely footage of the few fammilar faces down at the meet today,and even had a chat with a few of ye.Weather was horrible wasnt it??

by Anti-bloodsports Thu Feb 03, 2011 22:04

There's massive evidence of cruelty in hare coursing...unless of course it was "antis" (i.e. people opposed to it) that "rigged" all those maulings and injuries and deaths of hares at coursing meetings down the years, and that fed all those LIVE hares, cats and rabbits to greyhounds in blooding sessions!

As conspiracy theories go, the idea that "antis" rigged cruelty to a hare to blacken the nice coursing folk is pretty off the wall. No need to blacken those chaps...they do it every time they take hares, traps them, and used them as bait...terrorising the innocent creatures for "fun".

The hare in the video taken last year by two Swedish students was most probably a victim of "blooding", a very common and integral part of hare coursing as we know so well.

It was antis who reported that incident to Gardai in the first instance, and allegations by desperate coursing officials seeking to evade bad press that opponents of coursing "rigged" the hare's ordeal were found to be without any basis whatsover. That was a sad and silly attempt by coursing top brass to cover up for their cruelty.

by The Shadow Fri Feb 04, 2011 14:03

There's massive evidence of cruelty in hare coursing...unless of course it was "antis" (i.e. people opposed to it) that "rigged" all those maulings and injuries and deaths of hares at coursing meetings down the years, and that fed all those LIVE hares, cats and rabbits to greyhounds in blooding sessions!

A strawman arguement for start. And a facetious oner at that..Proof please of deaths of hares since the 1980s since dogs have been muzzled at anti fieldsporters demands too.

As conspiracy theories go, the idea that "antis" rigged cruelty to a hare to blacken the nice coursing folk is pretty off the wall. No need to blacken those chaps...they do it every time they take hares, traps them, and used them as bait...terrorising the innocent creatures for "fun".

Another strawman statement that isnt even worth replying to.Evading the point by trying to point to general evidence .

The hare in the video taken last year by two Swedish students was most probably a victim of "blooding", a very common and integral part of hare coursing as we know so well.

Well Anyti bloodsports ,did anyone demand an autopsy of the animal??funny your anti crowd missed out on that one??Not to mind it would be even obvious to anyone that a blooded hare would be mauled ,bitten and not flopping around with its head on the ground..
Trying to lightly dismiss this doesnt do your arguement any good at all.

It was antis who reported that incident to Gardai in the first instance, and allegations by desperate coursing officials seeking to evade bad press that opponents of coursing "rigged" the hare's ordeal were found to be without any basis whatsover. That was a sad and silly attempt by coursing top brass to cover up for their cruelty.

Just as much that the Gardai found no evidence of creulty or Swedish students willing to return to the juristiction to give sworn testimony to the facts of the video. If this is true why are these "swedish students" unwilling to come back and give supportive statements?After all if they have done nothing wrong ,they have nothing to fear.Ryanair is still flying to Stockholm??
All in all it is a cynical attempt of the anti bloodsport agenda to try and use an animal by scarificing it themselves with an illegal act.After all causes need maryters and according to them it would be killed anyway.So whats it matter??
they really need to study up on propaganda alot more.

by Sport Hater. Sun Feb 06, 2011 17:41

A symbol of the nonsense which befell our country is Hare Coursing and the Bertie Bowl.

Sports and Circuses wiped out our attention to the coming storm

"Commit Suicide" Bertie said to those who warned him that Ireland was driving off a cliff.

And Bertie still longs for his "Bertie Bowl."
.

by The cruel truth about hare coursing Sun Feb 06, 2011 21:01

In fact, the cruelty of hare coursing is extremely well documented and proven, whicxh is why all the Australian staes, one by one, abolished the sick practise followed by Scotland, then England and Wales, and most recently, Northern Ireland.

Aside from maulings by muzzled dogs, the role of stress myopathy in hares deaths AFTER coursing is another reason why it should be banned. Once a hare is confined in a small box, and in unnatural captivity, and terrorised for fun by the coursing "sposrtsmen", it is never the same again.

It's crazy that the Irish Hare, under threat from agriculture and urganisation etc, can legally be abused by gangs of thugs for kicks. If you type in hare coursing in Google News, you'll find many items on police cracking down on these sickos in other parts of the World. But here in the Republic it's still legal and protected by a band of cute hoor politicians...

The frenzied attempts by the pro-cruelty lobby to accuse the "antis" of rigging the incident filmed by the Swedish camera crew fell flat last year...Powerstown Park is clearly identifiable in the video (the same park that may soon have to be sold if the ICC goes under), and other features too make it clear that it was filmed during the coursing event last year. The massive security at the venue make it impossible for anyone to have just come along and somehow set up a hare there and torture to make the coursing people look bad. The fact that they resort to such black propagand to distract from their own PROVEN cruelty to animals says something about their credibility on the issue.

by The Shadow Tue Feb 08, 2011 20:48

Abit too early my anti friends..

the decision by the Northern Ireland Assembly not to give full protection to the Irish hare. An amendment tabled by the Alliance Party to give full statutory protection to the Irish hare was opposed during the further consideration stage of the Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill at Stormont on Monday 7 February 2011. 19 MLAs voted for the amendment and 56 against.

This amendment was not tabled in the best interests of the Irish hare population; it merely sought to end the traditional activities of beagling and hunting with hounds in Northern Ireland.

The Chairman of the Environment Committee, Cathal Boylan MLA, conveyed to the assembled members that this issue had been discussed at length within the Committee and it was their recommendation to maintain the status quo and not provide statutory protection. Speaking as MLA for his constituency, Mr Boylan also said we must protect these rural sports and activities.

The Minister for the Environment, Edwin Poots MLA, reiterated his reasons for not supporting this amendment stating that ecological evidence indicates that the main factors limiting the Irish hare population are the availability and quality of suitable habitat. Activities such as hunting have a negligible impact on the overall population.

Mr Francie Molloy MLA said during the debate that as anyone who lives in a rural area will know, the hunting of hares by hounds has been going on for centuries; it is a country pastime as much as anything.

An amendment tabled by Mr Molloy to allow two licensed coursing events in Northern Ireland per year fell by 33 to 53 votes. The Minister for the Environment stated he maintained that hare coursing was not primarily a conservation-related issue. It was his belief that the decision taken by the Assembly at Consideration Stage to ban hare coursing was taken on social and ethical grounds and based on the premise that such a sport is no longer appropriate in the twenty-first century. He further stated that those amendments would be a fundamental reversal of the Assembly's decision to ban hare coursing altogether.

by JM Scully Wed Feb 09, 2011 20:45

Interesting info from "Shadow"...but it's a ban on beagling, harriers etc that has been stalled in NI...hare coursing has already been banned. Down here, the campaign continues. I don't object so much to hunting or shooting as to hare coursing, which is just plain sadism.

I used to be a coursing fan but what I saw of the cruelty disgusted me and I', proud to say that in my native Co Galway theres only one coursing club left. It's dying out, thanks be to God!