Ógra Shinn Fein demand an end to RUC/PSNI Harassment!

by Barra Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:58 Doire

This is one example, of which there are many to show that the 'PSNI' has not changed one bit from the days of the RUC. A leopard dosent change its spots

by Barry Tue Jan 17, 2006 13:21

In a few months time anyone criticising the PSNI will have the ogras jumping down their throats . And most likely reporting them to the cops as well .

The big meeting in Belfast on Saturday made it clear theyre signing up to the British police very shortly as Gerry Kelly pointed out . " Big decisions ahead" and all that . Any chance of a report on that meeting from the shinners ?

Doubt it very much .

by george Tue Jan 17, 2006 20:11

Ogra Sinn Fein/RUC/PIRA/Provisional Sinn Fein/PSNI all the same shortly.
So why complaint boys.
Just carry on and Administer Brit rule, admit you sold out and leave republicans get on with the fight.

by George Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:04

George says in his post, and i quote
"Ogra Sinn Fein/RUC/PIRA/Provisional Sinn Fein/PSNI all the same shortly.
So why complaint boys.
Just carry on and Administer Brit rule, admit you sold out and leave republicans get on with the fight."
i wonder george which fight is that. is that the one the requires people like yourself posting useless comments on to indymedia and other relevant websites, or does that require going out and doing what it takes to secure your objectives.
I would urge others not to leave republicans to get on woth the fight, it is too much for republicans. irish republicans need the support of everyone if we are to eradicate british imperialism from our country. whether that be throught the ballot box or ortherwise

by Rob Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:08

"whether that be throught the ballot box or ortherwise"

What exaclty do you mean by otherwise??

by ROOSTER Wed Jan 18, 2006 13:46

Both men were released after two hours following a protest in which 100 people blocked the main entrance to Omagh PSNI Barracks.


The only people being harassed is the PSNI personnel at the station, oh and the people of Omagh of course, but then their probably used to republican harassment.

by moderate observer Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:42

The ruc/psni are actually a bi-partisan police force. The only thing that has changed is the colour of the land rovers and different uniform. There are still many british securocrats operating within it who wan't to disrupt the process of devolution, needless to say that the north of ireland is still under british occupation.

by Observer Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:54

This business of British occupation is a joke. It suggests an invasion by zillions of Panzers and storm trooperts who impose their will on a reluctant local population, killing anybody who protests etc - ie a Nazi invasion of western europe. The truth of course is that we have nothing remotely comparable in the north of Ireland. In particular, the overwhelming majority of people want to remain part of Britain. whatever else you call this, it is absurd to talk crap about occupation.

by Barry Mon Jan 23, 2006 18:13

when a foreign government and army control part of someone elses country thats what it is .
When they need 1000s of troops , special laws , elite regiments such as SAS , Paras Marines etc surveillance watchtowers , helicopter gunships and concrete bomb shelters simply to maintain a presence in civilian areas that is an occupation by a foreign government .

Whatever images the word conjures in your mind is your own problem . Go to south armagh and yull see occupation for yourself ..

by rooster Tue Jan 24, 2006 03:37

when have the British Army ever used helicopter gunships in Northern Ireland???
Please tell us oh learned one??
What was the squadron or the type of helicopter used??
Or even where was it used????

by pat c Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:23

cant say what type, but copters with doorgunners were certainly used. after acouple of copters were shotdown, these always flew in formations of three to give covering fire.

by Barry Tue Jan 24, 2006 14:47

all their helicopters ,puma , wessex, lynx and even the chinook had door gunners . The only one that didnt was the gazelle simply because it was too small.

Pats right about them flying in formation too sometimes 5 at a time . Usually they were fitted with the 7.62 GPMG but for a period the wessex and Puma were fitted with.50 calibre Brownings mounted behind reinforced concrete blocks inside the chopper and manned by SAS gunners in an attempt to combat the attacks on helicopters from below .

One memorable attack in 92 resulted in a running battle between around 10 gunships and the people on the ground with helicopters in hot persuit spraying the roads with gunfire and RPGs being fired to keep them at bay

if you scroll down to the file entitled Irish Republican Army at this link it clearly shows the door gunners and formation flying over south armagh

http://upthera.net//IRM/IRM2.htm

by Barry Tue Jan 24, 2006 14:53

the file entitled " rifles of the IRA " at the bottom of the page shows 2 seperate attacks on choppers in my beloved south armagh as well as mortar attacks on the occupiers observation towers which they need to enforce military occupation upon us Irish citizens in our own country .

memorable days . sadly sold down the river

by nuisance Tue Jan 24, 2006 21:14

but some of the music on thems a bit naff

rooster , i think bazza has amply demonstrated his point . those videos without doubt depict a foreign military occupation

by rooster Tue Jan 24, 2006 23:13

Nearly every helicopter in military service has a machine gun, that in itself does not make it a "gunship"

"all their helicopters ,puma , wessex, and even the chinook had door gunners"

idiot!!!
these are types of transport helicopter!!!!
and flights of more than three helicopters have not been deployed for many years, and SAS gunners!!! Why SAS, please tell, what! did the helo have the letters SAS stencilled on the side.

Its time to put the Tom Clancy book down fellas and stop day dreaming.

ha ha ha

by rooster Tue Jan 24, 2006 23:30

"One memorable attack in 92 resulted in a running battle between around 10 gunships and the people on the ground with helicopters in hot persuit spraying the roads with gunfire and RPGs being fired to keep them at bay "




so, the guys on the ground were able to either out drive or out run the helos in the air, gotta hand it to those ira guys there fit blokes, don't think they'd pass a random drug test though!

So this Ford Mondeo with a couple of provos in the back managed to escape from the ten circling helicopter gunships (which were spraying the road with machine gun fire)

Tell me, was Harrison Ford around at the time cos it sounds like a Hollywood flick to me!

by rooster Tue Jan 24, 2006 23:49

A helicopter gunship is a military helicopter armed for attacking targets on the ground, using automatic cannon and machinegun fire, rockets, and precision guided missiles such as the Hellfire. Many attack helicopter are also capable of carrying air to air missiles, though mostly for the purposes of self defense. The Attack Helicopter has two main roles, first is to provide direct and accurate close air support for ground troops, it's second role is to destroy enemy armor behind enemy lines.

by Barry Wed Jan 25, 2006 01:19

" A helicopter gunship is a military helicopter armed for attacking targets on the ground "

The role of helicopters in south armagh (.."to provide direct and accurate close airsupport for ground troops" )without doubt fulfils the definition youve supplied .

However as the IRA did not posess tanks and armoured cars, "behind the lines " missions against armour with hellfire missiles werent altogether necessary . As they did not possess aircraft either ,air-to-air missiles are just a tad superfluous too .

You may care to read Toby Harndens book "bandit country" in which the British army are interviewed about the SAS fitting the wessex with 50 calibre Brownings as a trap for the IRA .

It also has a detailed account of the engagement to which i referred which involved more than just a "few provos in a mondeo" . Around 40 armed men to be precise armed with "Dushkas" and GPMGS (which would be a little difficult to fit in the boot of a ford mondeo Id imagine .) They were situated over a wide radius around crossmaglen army base in an attempt wipe out a number of choppers with heavy fire .

It occured quite near to were I lived at that time and I can assure you it was a ferocious engagement . The fire from the choppers was so heavy ditches at the side of the road simply disintegrated and collapsed .. It seems a high level informer was at work , with IRAs heavy gear jamming almost immediately as the attack was launched and squads of helicopters arriving almost immediately , almost resulting in the loss of the entire south armagh brigade .

Luckily that was averted by small arms and rpg rocket fire to disconcert the choppers ( they dont like rockets sailing upward at them), not to mention some pretty nifty driving from the fleeing rebels . Massive support in the local community coupled with their own experience and calm heads no doubt helped them effect their lucky escape too .

The bulk of the heavy gear had to be abandoned and was captured by the British . An almost disaster which would have been worse than loughall .

While Mr Harnden is not one of my favourite author his book covers the incident in some detail .

by rooster Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:28

The role of helicopters in south armagh (.."to provide direct and accurate close airsupport for ground troops" )without doubt fulfils the definition youve supplied .

-no it does not, these are transport helicopters fitted with machine guns which are used for self defence, if they were being used in the Close Air Support role then they would have been ambushing the IRA unit, you describe how it was the other way around, in other words the helicopter crews were defending themselves.

Barry, when you see the Apache fly over South Amagh you will know that we have deployed helicopter gunships.

by rooster Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:28

The role of helicopters in south armagh (.."to provide direct and accurate close airsupport for ground troops" )without doubt fulfils the definition youve supplied .

-no it does not, these are transport helicopters fitted with machine guns which are used for self defence, if they were being used in the Close Air Support role then they would have been ambushing the IRA unit, you describe how it was the other way around, in other words the helicopter crews were defending themselves.

Barry, when you see the Apache fly over South Amagh you will know that we have deployed helicopter gunships.

by rooster Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:42

They were situated over a wide radius around crossmaglen army base in an attempt wipe out a number of choppers with heavy fire .



this looks like a clear and blatant attempt at a shoot to kill policy being exercised by the IRA, I am both appalled and disgusted that this could have been allowed to happen, I think that Sin Feinn should be suspended from all decision making bodies in the north until a full independent public inquiry can find the truth of what happened.

by Barry Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:53

their apaches werent operational at that time therefore these were the only choppers they had for ground support which they certainly needed

and we fully expect to see the apache in our skies one of these days

by ROOSTER Fri Jan 27, 2006 23:32

so you admit that the IRA operation on that night carried offensive weapons that were meant to kill members of the security forces?
Wich is an admission of a shoot to kill policy!!!!!

by ned Sat Jan 28, 2006 04:38

of course the IRA had a shoot to kill policy

why else would they shoot at the invaders

by ede - ógra ná heíreann Sat Jan 28, 2006 15:16 eiresaoirse32 at yahoo dot com Monaghan 67657657

The IRA Only shot to eliminate the foreign brit terrorist threat on the Irish people,Many of the brit terrorists are still alive to tell the tale, and say how well there clothing and underground Bunker's where for hiding, and fair play to the Irish Soilders in Defending there Country, they say also , And as the Brit's were wondering why there country was occupying a little teddy Bear, they thought of there times shitting themself's in Ireland and hugging the teddy bear too.

by rehab Sat Jan 28, 2006 20:19

for a sinn fein spokesman you arent the most articulate plum on the bush , young man.

by rooster Sat Jan 28, 2006 22:42

what is he on about?

by Taff Mon Oct 02, 2006 19:14

World opinion and a lack of British Government resolve was the only reason the conflict went on as long as it did.

In particular if the British Security Forces would have been allowed to get on with the job and had no government interference whatsoever the campaign would have been over as quickly as it began.

Many soldiers were more afraid of 'The yellow Card' and rules of engagement ( what if I mistakingly shoot someone) than anything.

Many were frustrated especially lynx crews, for not being able to go over the border after the IRA. Warrenpoint , was an example of this.

The IRA were very organised I will give them that, they had to be. However, just like modern day Al Qaeda, it is relatively easy to plant a landmine and watch from 500 meters away and wait for some foot patrol to come along in the coming days or so and press the trigger. Many unsuspecting soldiers met their end this way. Brave act, I do not think so. However, on some occasions the IRA took risks and got up close, this takes more nerve. But in my opinion most of the actions they committed were cowardly- especially the corporals deaths.
What always used to amuse me was when the IRA went on about the Security Forces shoot to kill policy, of course the IRA never had this policy!!!!!!!!! The British at least took prisoners or certainly in the majority of cases. The IRA always took none.

The story about one IRA, ASU being compromised and they run into a farm house petrified, as the Paras surrounded them. The IRA telephoned the Police, (the ones they liked to kill of course)and local priests to save them. Why didn't they fight it out, they were armed, this happened on many occasions in Belfast too.

Can you imagine a Brit patrol in the same positon surrounded by IRA- game over. It makes me laugh.

by Snail Mon Oct 02, 2006 19:53

Hey the Sinn Feinners are about to join the policing board dont you know. Now if the Ogra get a slap on the ear from the cops they'll be able to complain to Martin or Gerry.