USS Mitscher sails into neutral Cobh

by AWI Ireland (Cork) Sun Nov 05, 2006 20:03

While there should be a good turnout of Cobh locals on Tuesday night, we would also encourage people from futher afield to turn up. Cobh has a regular train service from Kent station in Cork (€5.10 return). It takes about half an hour and with regards to Tuesday evening there will be trains at 5pm, 5.30pm, 6.00pm and 6.30pm. Return trains from Cobh to Cork are 8.30pm, 10pm and for the really determined, 11pm.

Cobh can als be reached by road via the R624 which branches off the Cork-Waterford road and by the Cross-River Car Ferry from Glenbrook to Carrigaloe which runs every few minutes up to midnight.

by Cork sea dog Sun Nov 05, 2006 23:52

Not really,compared to most of the US navy that is a small ship.Plus the Lee is so filthy with untreated sewage from cork city that the boom is not going to make any difference.It is an anti approach barrier.

by Mark Spits Mon Nov 06, 2006 01:57

Actually most of Cork city's sewage is treated at Carrigrennan before entering the River Lee.

by slimjim Mon Nov 06, 2006 03:41

A small ship by US Navy standards it may be, but it packs a punch:
Tomahawk and harpoon missiles,enough no doubt to vapourize Cobh if they so wished.Thank God the USA is a rational and peace loveing nation.

by Righteous Pragmatist Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:56

Why would the US want to vaporise Cork?
Are you got a screw loose?

by Cork Sea Dog Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:18

Well the plant isnt doing a very good job then.I doubt used condoms,sanitary towles and human facces constitute treated sewage.All to be observed from the banks of the "lovley Lee".maybe we should worry more about pollution ,than a ship from a friendly nation visiting for a couple of days.Also a tomahawk needs a nuke tip to "vaporise" anything.The rheortic here is unbeliveable sometimes.

by Charles B. Mon Nov 06, 2006 13:50

I think slimjim wasjust trying to give people an idea of the destructive potential that there is onboard that ship. It could cause severe damage if a Tomahawk was launched at Cobh, wouldn't it? What if they spotted Osama Bin Laden taking off out the Cork road on a Honda 90, do you think that they would launch a Tom or two just to make sure they got him. OK, so there would be some cililian casualities, or "collateral damage", and perhaps because most of the folk involved would be white and christian, then they would think twice before launching anyway. And I'd say a lot of things could be vapourised if they took a direct hit with a conventional warhead, vapourised meaning a rapid transition from a solid or liquid state to a gaseous one, non? I'd say at the point of impact the auld temperature would rise fairly high, but you're right in that a nuke would vapourise a whole lot more.
And if the US were to use the same rational they used for attacking Iraq (involved in Sept. 11), then wouldn't Cork be just as deserving as Iraq on this basis? I mean its called the rebel county, and using the fairly broad definition there is for terrorists these days, being called a rebel must be enough (just lucky I suppose that New York are in the Ulster championship. God only knows what Donald Rumsfeld would do if he heard the rebels hammered New York!
I think there may be a certain level of sarcasm involved here lads, and perhaps if you're not originally from Cork, or indeed Ireland, you mightn't just get it. At the end of the day, many in tis country would like to think that we are a neutral country, but this is a bit of a farce what with ships like this, and planes full of troops and munitions being given plenty of hospitality. Some people are pissed off at this situation, and rightly so.

by Cork Sea dog Mon Nov 06, 2006 20:42

in an infidel country whose main lifestyle is drinking alcohol and eating unclean swine????NAH!!If the drisheen didnt get him the murphys will.
Anyway, it is doubtful that they would fire off a few tomahawks at a moving target .Tomahawks are used at stationary targets,not moving ones. Kind of unusual for a destroyer to carry tomahawks as well,they are usually on AEGIS class cruisers or heavier cruiser ships or subs. Destroyers do not include missile launch in their job.They are sub hunters or escort vessels to cruisers or aircraft carriers.
Duno where you get the idea Ireland is a neutral country.We delude ourselves that we are.But even neutral countries recive warships from other countries.Called a courtsey visit.Methinks this is just another chance to make some noise at somthing US that is convient in distance to them.

by Dr. Zarkov Mon Nov 06, 2006 21:03

For starters the information regarding the presence of Tomahawk cruise missiles onboard USS Mitscher was not pulled from thin air. It comes from the ship's own official website. Tomahawks are on all ships of the Arleigh Burke class. This is the full spec from their website :-

General Characteristics, Arleigh Burke class

Builder: Bath Iron Works, Ingalls Shipbuilding.
SPY-1 Radar and Combat System Integrator: Lockheed Martin
Date Deployed: July 4, 1991 (USS Arleigh Burke)
Propulsion: Four General Electric LM 2500-30 gas turbines; two shafts, 100,000 total shaft horsepower.
Length: Flights I and II (DDG 51-78): 505 feet (153.92 meters)
Flight IIA (DDG 79-98): 509½ feet (155.29 meters).
Beam: 59 feet (18 meters).
Displacement: Hulls 51 through 71: 8,315 tons (8,448.04 metric tons) full load
Hulls 72 through 78: 8,400 tons (8,534.4 metric tons) full load
Hulls 79 and on: 9,200 tons (9,347.2 metric tons) full load.
Speed: in excess of 30 knots.
Crew: 23 officers, 300 enlisted.
Armament: Standard missile; Harpoon; Vertical Launch ASROC (VLA) missiles; Tomahawk®; six Mk-46 torpedoes (from two triple tube mounts); one 5
Aircraft: LAMPS III electronics installed on landing deck for coordinated DDG 51/helo ASW operations (DDG 51-78). Two SH-60 Seahawk LAMPS III helicopters (DDG 79-105

-----------------------

As regards Irish neutrality, let me quote Bertie Ahern when he was trying to sell the (second) Nice Treaty referendum, and I quote:----- "We have given constitutional guarantee to the issue of neutrality so next week a vote for Irish neutrality is a yes vote because we're now putting the neutrality wording into our own constitution."

by AWI member Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:22

Remarkable how people can think it's logical to question the sanity of those who oppose the mass slaughter of our fellow human beings!

The USS Mitscher is a part of the US war machine, which is currently at war in the Middle East - it is no different than the military allowed to troop through Shannon airport. Hence, anti-war activists will oppose its presence in an Irish port.

So, remember: picket tonight at 7pm on Deepwater Quay. Be there folks! All opponents of militarism and imperialism welcome.

by Anti-War Ireland Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:12

Tonight's protest in Cobh will take the form of a candle-light vigil in memory of the 655,000 people who have died in Iraq since the March 2003 invasion. Participants should bring candles.

AWI locally have been on local radio stations this morning highlighting the presence of this US warship and arguing against such 'visits'.

by John Quinn Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:19

The amount of hysteria here is unbelieveable. as is the amount of ignorance and misinformation.

Tomahawk missiles come in many forms. The version that the USS Mitscher carries are the anti-ship version. There are even several versions of this. It and the Harpoon missile (of which there are several types also) are radar guided. IF fired at Cork, they would either go ballistic (continue in a straight line until they ran out of fuel) or try to attack the nearest radar target...... which would likely be a nearby mountain, or large building etc. Seeing that the missiles have to travel a number of kilometres before they can arm, the damage would be minimal.

Now there is a Land attack version of the Tomahawk - guided by GPS or pre-programming (GPS is by far the more common version today). Again, it needs to travel a number of kilometres before it can arm - although you can dogleg these missiles....send it a couple of miles inland and then turn it around so it has adequate time to arm.

Finally, there is the nuclear version. These are not normally carried on board ships.... but can be. The USS Mitscher, depending on where it is going, may not have a full loadout. If on it's way to a warzone, it is likely laden down with land attack Tomahawks - there is not that many Iraqi Insurgent warships - If not, then it is likely that it is carrying 1/3 load, mostly SAMs for self protection but with a few other types of missiles thrown in for flexibility.

The big question is whether your protest will have more than the 2 guys who were there last time the USS The Sullivans was in Cork - Heavily outnumbered by wellwishers for the US sailors?

by Dr. Zarkov Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:29

John Quinn says the missiles would need to travel a number of kilometres before they arm. How many kilometres? Cobh is about 18km from Cork city in a straight line, would that be enough?

Anyway this is merely a diversion on his and other people's part. What's relevant is that this is a heavily armed warship and it's in Cork Harbour. AWI didn't suggest that the ship was there to threaten Cork. It's presence is objectionable because it belongs to an imperial power which is waging an ongoing war against the Iraqi and Afghan people and threatening other countries. The ship is designed for the purpose of killing and destruction.

Let the trolls with their feigned disbelief troll off now. The ship is there and its real. See you all tonight at the demo (trolls excepted).

by Brian's Mom Wed Nov 08, 2006 05:35

This is an interesting blog. I was in County Cork in 1990, helping to move the electronics company I worked for from Iowa, USA, to Cork, Ireland. I had dinner at a restaurant in Cobh one night. I stayed at the Fitzpatrick's Silver Springs Hotel. I kissed the Blarney Stone. I was so excited for my sailor son when he said he was going to Ireland so that he could see the beautiful places I had seen; he is now one of the sailors on the USS Mitscher in your harbor. As it is everyone's right in the USA to protest the war if they want, fair enough, protest, but please show respect to the military, they are all someone's son or daughter. We just want them home safe. Peace be with you County Cork.

by A Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:10

Advise your sailor son to jump ship and claim political assylum in Ireland from an illegal, immoral, unwinnable war.

by updater Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:17

Over 40 people - mostly locals - attended the Anti-War Ireland candle-light picket of the USS Mitscher last night. More details later.

by A10 Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:44

That will make him a deserter,and unable EVER to go back to the US.Plus to claim political asylum he has to prove under international law that he is in acute danger of his life,due to political belifs,ethnic minority,or religion.Not exactly somthing very common in the US.
God speed,and fair weather to the US navy,at least somone is willing to put their lives on the line,so we can sit here in comfort and critizise the evil US.

by Dr. Zarkov Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:11

A10 once again puts forward the mythical notion that all of us enjoy freedom because the US military polices the world and deals with the baddies. Look around you A10 - since Bush took power illegally six years ago the world has become a much more dangerous place. Look at the airports (and not just Shannon), you can't fly now without being frisked and passengers are in fear of a possible attacker. That is what Bush and his cronies have done to this world. They don't protect me or anyone else, they look after their own interests and are prepared to kill and maim in order to do so. Shock and awe. We don't need that kind of protection. Now the vast bulk of the American people have come to realise that fact too. Thank you America for giving Bush a bloody nose (metaphorically speaking of course, no real blood shed).

by USA Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:09

First off. That tour van of people was heading to the hospital to visit with sick children, not heading to a pub.

And you should ask the buisness owners in Cork and Cobh about how much of an influx of money they recieved from one small warship visiting.

God Bless The USA.

by USS Mitscher Family member Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:40

Last time I checked the United States of America was a democracy, one that hold regular elections. President Bush was ELECTED to office by the people of the USA. Maybe you could explain to me which part of that election was illegal. Secondly, the members of the military do not necessarily agree with every action of the current administration (whoever that may be at the time), they are people too and have their own opinions and beliefs. As military members, however, you do hold a fundamental belief that the USA is good and operates with the intention of spreading peace and stabilizing dangerous areas of the world.

The people that pulled into your port are good people. Many of them are interested in spending their time in port doing service projects (an officer onboard is designated specifically to organize these opportunities). Others are thrilled to be able to experience the life and culture of your country and its people. Please spend some time getting to know one or more of these fine young men and women, you may find they are just like your friends and family.

Finally, rest assured that there will be no offensive use of weapons by the USS Mitscher while in port in Ireland. I would be interested to know if that has ever happened in the 200+ years of Naval service. So lets get real...if you want to protest the war, by all means, protest the war. This ship poses no harm to you or your country...Protest our administration or our country, it would be more worthwhile.

by Righteous Pragmatist Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:52

These idiots are potheads,college drop outs, jobless wasters, Sinn Fein/IRA supporters, communists and tree huggers.

by Deirdre Clancy - AWI Thu Nov 09, 2006 15:30

'Righteous Pragmatist', you clearly haven't done your research into the anti-war movement. In fact, most people I know in the movement are none of the things you describe. Most work and have completed a decent education (be that at third level or through life experience). They come from a variety of different political persuasions. I've seen more people openly smoke pot in the course of one week's commuting on the top deck of the 78A bus than I've seen in the anti-war movement in the last several years.

Communists? Yes, there are those, but there are people from many political backgrounds involved in the anti-war movement. Most 'communists' in AWI are not supporters of a form of communism involving dictatorship (as in, China and the Soviet Union). They just people who believe in a fair distribution of resources. You know, decent things like not allowing people to starve while a small elite gets rich on the strength of their labour.

When people use tired old stereotypes, it's generally a sign they've lost an argument. Perhaps you should develop a hobby, RP, like maybe collecting Senator McCarthy memorabilia or something, and let the rest of us get on with the job of opposing an intervention that most of the world opposes. You're the lunatic fringe - not us.

by Cork person Thu Nov 09, 2006 15:39

"Last time I checked the United States of America was a democracy, one that hold regular elections. President Bush was ELECTED to office by the people of the USA."

Arguably, Bush just lost his mandate. However, mid-term elections aside, very few of the people who voted for Bush saw their vote as a vote for mass murder and military occupation. Moreover, mass murder and invasion of another country does not become acceptable simply because Bush got voted into office. Do you think he was made God or something! A case of he's elected, he can kill all around now and assert a mandate based on his election. Perverse logic.

"Maybe you could explain to me which part of that election was illegal."

This is an issue for US citizens but there are many question marks over Bush's first election. It's up to you to deal with that.

"Secondly, the members of the military do not necessarily agree with every action of the current administration (whoever that may be at the time), they are people too and have their own opinions and beliefs."

'We're just following orders, Ma'am.' Bang! The funny thing is, many former US troops have spoken out against this war and their numbers grow. In that sense you are completely right - these soldiers, by and large, are being used and abused by the Bush administration. The anti-war activists in Cobh, and elsewhere in Ireland, were very clear that the individual sailors and soldiers are not our enemy. In fact they may join our ranks once out of the military. Speed the day.

"As military members, however, you do hold a fundamental belief that the USA is good and operates with the intention of spreading peace and stabilizing dangerous areas of the world. "

Well, they may or may not. But exactly what business does the US have policing the planet? "Stabilizing dangerous areas of the world"? What? Like Iraq which they invaded, destabilised and destroyed? Has it completely escaped your notice that the US, historically, is responsible for a great deal of the destabilisation? You need to read up on your contemporary history.

"The people that pulled into your port are good people."

I'm sure many of them are - and some probably aren't. Like the rest of us.

"Many of them are interested in spending their time in port doing service projects (an officer onboard is designated specifically to organize these opportunities)."

They can do this somewhere else. We don't want US warships in our port as long as the Bush administration is engaged in war and occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not welcome.

"Others are thrilled to be able to experience the life and culture of your country and its people."

Come as tourists and you'll be more than welcome. Leave the weapons of war at home.

"Please spend some time getting to know one or more of these fine young men and women, you may find they are just like your friends and family. "

Oh do stop! We expect many of these people to be in the ranks of the anti-war movement at some stage. We don't dehumanise. Likewise, I suggest you think of the people of Iraq and Afghanistan in the same terms. The 655,000 people who've died since the invasion of 2003 were people just like those you know, just like people in your family. Spend some time with that and wonder how their bereaved families feel.

"Finally, rest assured that there will be no offensive use of weapons by the USS Mitscher while in port in Ireland. I would be interested to know if that has ever happened in the 200+ years of Naval service."

I don't think we could be clearer about this: THE PROTEST WAS OVER THE WAR IN IRAQ. Moreover, as a supposedly neutral country, we should not be a stopover and refuelling point for a military & navy actively enged in war. Not on. Not acceptable.

"So lets get real...if you want to protest the war, by all means, protest the war. This ship poses no harm to you or your country...Protest our administration or our country, it would be more worthwhile. "

Do it all the time. And this protest was part of that. Odd how you refuse to accept was this protest was actually about.

The US war machine is not welcome in Ireland, neither in Shannon nor in Cobh!

by Brian's Mom Fri Nov 10, 2006 09:29

I am happy that the protest was peaceful; I do hope you will get to meet some of the sailors on the ship. My son enlisted in the Navy in 2002, before 9/11. He was in Chicago going to school the day the World Trade Center, the Pentagon were attacked. It was an awful day. Not everyone in America supports the war in Iraq, but supporting our troops is very important. Their service is a huge sacrifice. I think most people in the United States are like people in the rest of the world, we just want our families to be safe and happy. It would be wonderful if we did not always point out our differences, but examine and celebrate the things we have in common. War is waged by old men, but fought by young men and now young women. My prayer is that they all have a safe passage and stay out of harm's way.

My great-grandparents came to the United States from Norway...I have never been to Norway, but I celebrated Scandinavian Days every year as I grew up. I have never been to Russia, but we celebrated May Day every year. I have never been to Mexico, but we celebrate Cinco de Mayo every year. I am not of Irish decent, but March 17 I wear green and every year after I turned 21 I drink green beer...I have been to Ireland, it is a beautiful country and I have fond memories of the friends I met. I was concerned to come to your country; you have some problems with blowing people up as well. There are good and bad people all over this globe we share.