Cobh gives USS Mitscher a night to remember

by anon Mon Nov 20, 2006 22:53

Came across these photos here, its an old conventional sub on permanent loan from the USA

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77172414@N00/sets/72157594380505291/
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_zeeleeuw1.htm

by Nick - None Wed Nov 15, 2006 00:49

Paul - sorry about the lack of paragraphs!

Anti-war: yes, unfortunately, even though I read through it twice before finally sending it, I somehow missed the 'Keith' bit, I don't even know where that name came from (!) My apologies to John. As for the misnomer re. IAWM v. AWI, you'll have to forgive me for getting confused. I do try and get it right, but there seem to be so many anti-war groups and splinter groups that sometimes it's like trying to keep track of different protestant sects ;-}
I'm still trying to work out what exactly is the difference between them, forgive my ignorance, I'm sure there must be some difference but I guess we're all focused on ending the illegal war in Iraq, making the Shannon stopover an issue and promoting an end to warfare?

John Jeffries: saw your reply in the Echo this evening, very good.

by John Jefferies - AWI Cork Tue Nov 14, 2006 18:36

My reply to Cathal MacCarthy's article is in tonight's Evening Echo, page 14.

by AWI activist Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:57

Nick,

Anti-War Ireland (AWI) in Cork, who organised the picket, have already written an article in response to McCarthy's diatribe and it's due for publication today.

A couple of problems with your response. Anti-War Ireland organised the demo not the IAWM. The chief organiser was JOHN Jefferies of Cobh AWI not KEITH.

The journo in question, Cathal McCarthy, is a right-wing plonker who devoted a column the previous week to a personalised attack on Rosanna Flynn of Residents Against Racism.

by Paul Tue Nov 14, 2006 03:51

Jaysus lad, ever hear of the Enter Button?,

its like trying to read the magnacartainonefellswoop, us old tymers need alittle paragraph to read at a time.

by Nick - None Tue Nov 14, 2006 00:43

So the goalposts shift.... first of all it was 'no way there were 40 people there' and then it was 'ok, so there was 40 people there, but what can you hope to achieve?' and so on ad nauseum.

Cathal MacCarthy, a journalist for the Evening Echo wrote an article where he outlined his irritation at 'unelected pressure groups' caiming to speak on behalf of other people. Since his article has much in common with the comments posted by John Quinn for example, I'll reproduce my reply to Cathal below. Though I was not at Cobh, I have been to Shannon to protest the same issues. I hope my reply below will answer some of the questions and points made about 'unelected voices' etc.,

"Cathal MacCarthy (Evening Echo 10-11-06) manages both to misrepresent and misunderstand the protest by the Irish Anti War Movement regarding the visit by USS Mitscher to Cobh. As I understand it, Keith Jeffries was speaking on behalf of the IAWM and like-minded citizens. As such he is entitled to do so, just as Cathal is entitled to go down to Cobh with a big ‘welcome’ sign should he wish. Yes, Mr.Jeffries is unelected and Cathal deeply resents such people having any voice at all. Nonetheless, the unelected Cathal is not above inviting consensus from his readership by phrases such as ‘I doubt you have a problem with that – I know I don’t’. But let’s look at the issue of unelected representatives further. Which member of the electorate does Cathal suppose handed a mandate to any of our politicians to accept bribes from builders, or build an incinerator in Ringaskiddy? In the latter example, over 20,000 people from the area signed a petition signalling their resistance to the incinerator, but their elected representatives have completely ignored their voice. There is a clear conclusion to be drawn here: our elected representatives sometimes ‘go rogue’ acting as though once elected, they have no further responsibility to their electorate and have carte blanche to follow what policies they please. In short democracy has failed. It is precisely for this reason that lobby and pressure groups, so despised by Cathal, have sprung up. The greater the failure of democracy, the more of these groups we are likely to see. The degree to which they are representative will depend on the amount of support they can accrue. What are political parties themselves after all, if not associations of like-minded individuals that began life as pressure groups? Cathal has his soapbox, perhaps he can permit the IAWM theirs. Not wishing to appear too totalitarian, he generously concedes that tolerance even for the ‘silly fatuous speech’ by the likes of Mr.Jeffries is the price we have to pay for a civilised and free society. By asking rhetorically ‘which country has enshrined free speech in its constitution?’ he attempts to cleverly suggest that Mr.Jeffries is misguidedly protesting the very system that guarantees his freedom to do so. Cathal may have missed it all, but a lot has changed since the ink dried on the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution back in 1789. In his so-called war on terror, George Bush has done his best to roll back the very freedoms extolled by Cathal. The Patriot Act, the tearing up of the Habeus Corpus, recent legislation to make it an offence for US citizens abroad to criticise the White House regime while the US is ‘at war’ have all helped turn the American dream into the American nightmare. Then there are the so-called ‘Free Speech Zones’ – enclosed places where those opposed to Bush can make their opinion known under the watchful eye of the police and away from the gaze of the public: in a country where everywhere is supposed to be an area of free speech. Finally there is the issue over which the IAWM are protesting: the US is spearheading an illegal war in Iraq – a war with no UN mandate. Surely Cathal can understand the issue here, given his insistence on mandates. This war has left between 30,000 (Iraq Body Count) and 650,000 (Lancet) Iraqi dead. The US has also operated a series of prison and torture camps scattered around the world, as well as outsourcing torture to countries with poor human rights records – of which Shannon airport is a cog in the machine. Perhaps Cathal, in his unconditional welcome of the US military might care to clarify where he stands on these issues. The US military is a key component of this system and by protesting their presence, the IAWM are doing what the Irish government should be doing: underlining our neutrality and adherence to the principles of the UN. True, not all US soldiers wish to be part of this system and some of them, such as Joshua Casteel, have become conscientious objectors. The IAWM has nothing against individual US soldiers but must protest their presence as a whole. Nor is the IAWM anti-American. US tourists will always be welcome here. Far from being the ‘eccentric busybodies’ Cathal would like to portray them, a large number of US citizens are of the same mind as the IAWM. For this reason they gave overwhelming endorsement to Democrat candidates in recent days. Cathal might like to reflect on all of this before condemning ‘unelected pressure groups’ out of hand"

by John Quinn Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:35

No, We're not Pro-War, just anti-Idiot.

And still noone has any photos that show more than 3 protesters and a placard.

Trolls

In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, most often in the form of posting inflammatory, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate messages.

You call people Pro-War, Trolls, Liers, Braindead etc. Less of the insults, ok? Just because you can't prodce proof to back up your claims of 40 protestors.

by AWI activist Thu Nov 09, 2006 22:16

A10, why don't you give a sense of the pro-Bush, pro-war lobby in Ireland by organising a march in favour of US warplanes at Shannon and US warships in Cobh? Ye know, a march for all those who quietly support the facilitation of the US war machine in Ireland. Go on! You can do it! I mean, there's yourself...and at least two other regular trolls on this site. And, shure who knows, the US embassy might send a couple of staff members along.

We wait with bated breath.

by A10 Thu Nov 09, 2006 21:58

pics as you like,John.I belive you that you had 40 people there. But it is 40 people ,where ever they come from.did these 40 people storm the doom bringing US warship,force the crew to set sail this morning?Did the 40 people do much other than yell anti US slogans,have a candle light sing song or anything else to actually drive the ship away? In a country of 3.5 million what is 40 people,or 500 anti American protestors.You are going on like you personally led a commando raid on this ship and took it over[a night to remember indeed].maybe leaving out the rehortic aside would give these protests some creditability.All in all,if you were noticed at all by the US crew it would be amazing.
Yeah,I belive you were FOURTY people.Not four hundred or four thousand

Dont delude yourselves that you repersent the "silent majority" of Irish people.You dont.All these groups have NO mandate from the Irish people to damage,protest speak out or otherwise harass a friendly powers forces paying a courtsey visit or passing thru a airport with an agreement that has been there since the 60s.300 people at Shannon,40 at Cobh.Sorry,we the Irish people are not intrested.

by John Jefferies Thu Nov 09, 2006 17:09 086-3004573

For once and for all the reason there are no pics is that my camera and I presume others were simply not up to the job. I took photos on Tuesday night but they were not good enough to put online and I'm only putting two samples up now to prove the point (not that I have to prove anything to trolls who are about as much use to the world as a spatula in a coalmine).

I have the names of 26 people who were there on Tuesday, 19 of those were from Cobh. I have no intention of putting those names online without permission but I can share them with any responsible person who may genuinely in doubt as to the turnout. The others names I don't know but they were certainly there.

As for the photos from last July when the troll says there were only three present it was because that photographer took the photograph deliberately from behind the main group of protesters - in fact the back of one well known activist's head is in that shot and not included in the trolls estimate of 3.

So where are your photos A10? You seem to have a great camera that can reduce crowd sizes. What's wrong with your pics? too many people in them?

Why I didn't publish photos

Don't bother counting, it's only a section of the crowd

by John Jefferies - Anti-War Ireland Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:33 Cobh, County Cork

The guided missile destroyer USS Mitscher has just left Cobh and is making its way out of Cork Harbour right now.

At 9.00am exactly the Mitscher sounded a single blast of her siren and slipped out of her berth at Deepwater Quay. Seconds later the bells of St. Colman's Cathedral chimed the hour followed by a short rendition of "Joy to the World" on its 49-bell carrillion, one of the largest in Europe.

It is a beautiful morning in Cobh with a slight red tinge in the sky and an earlier mist has now lifted.

Guided out by the tugs Breedbank and Gerry O'Sullivan and trailed by two Irish Naval Service inflatables she passed my window around 9.10am on her way allowing me to get a few quick snaps of her welcome departure. She is currently passing the small headland known as Dognose just north of Roches Point from which she will emerge into the open sea in a few minutes.

Earlier she had to wait for a flotilla of Japanese fishing boats on their way to Cork City to pass.

Thanks again to all those who participated in last Tuesday nights most successful vigil to protest the presence of this war machine.

USS Mitscher passing Cork Harbour buoy No.20

Red sky in the morning, sailors take warning

Irish naval outriders protect the US warship

by Cork anti-war Wed Nov 08, 2006 18:33

Yeah, John Quinn, it's similar insofar as we still have trolls like you continuing to peddle piss-weak disinformation. Let's not revisit the USS The Sullivans picket because your lies about the numbers then were just too laughable to be taken seriously. Do you know for instance that only one person lives in China? Uh? What? Yeah, seriously, I saw a picture of a Chinese guy standing on the Great Wall yesterday and he was alone! Ergo, one person lives in China.

Short version John, take your braindead trolling to another site.

The picket on the USS The Sullivans was called overnight at short notice, hence about a dozen or so were there. Good turnout at very short notice. Last night was a real improvement. More than 40 people - mostly locals - picketted the USS Mitscher and made their presence felt. Good picket, good demo.

A counter-demonstration, led by John Quinn, meanwhile managed to mobilise 400 people in a strong show of support for the war...oh wait, that never happened! Opps, sorry about that. There were actually no pro-war demonstrators, no John Quinn, just annoyed local people showing their opposition to the presence of a US killing machine in their port.

Great demo and Irish anti-war activists will continue to mobilise against visits by these imperialist warships.

by John Quinn Wed Nov 08, 2006 18:01

Is this similiar to the old thread about the USS The Sullivans? The claims of large numbers of protesters soon were rubbished by a pic showing the truth - 2 guys and a sign.

The large number were actually well wishers.

by Cork anti-war Wed Nov 08, 2006 14:58

Pat, I'm sure you have. Be fair though and answer the question. Why don't you end posible confusion by calling yourselves the Cork branch of the IAWM. The 'Cork Alliance Against War' is misleading because you definitely aren't an 'alliance' and comprise nothing more than a couple of Cork SWP members and one other. No disrespect is meant to you and your other SWP comrades because you do good work. However, your CAAW name confuses people who had experience of the larger and much more successful Cork Anti-War Campaign (CAWC) which organised all the big marches in Cork in 2003 and 2004. The CAWC people are all in the Cork branch of AWI and have nothing to do with 'CAAW'.

I have no problem with your group - more power to anybody opposing the war. But you consist of a couple of people - all bar one (maybe two) are in the local SWP - and have no connection to the former CAWC. I think you should get involved in AWI - and you would be welcomed! - but, if not, at least stop confusing people. You are the Cork IAWM and you should drop this grandiose 'alliance' thing.

by Bat - Cork anti war Wed Nov 08, 2006 14:31

Yes Congrats to organisers and great to see everyone working together. As an aside, I've attended many excellent events organised by Cork Alliance Against War in the last few months, demos, gigs, public meetings and film showings, and would like to wish them, along with all others, the best of luck and great success in the future. Keep up the good work

by Pat OSullivan. - Cork Alliance Against War Wed Nov 08, 2006 14:26

Thanks for reminding me :-)
Cork Alliance Against War is meeting in the Spailpin tonight (Wed) at 7 PM.

by Cork anti-war Wed Nov 08, 2006 13:46

A very good and lively protest.

On a less harmonious note, Pat what is this 'Cork Alliance Against War'? It's just a couple of Cork city SWP and one (maybe two) other people. Why aren't you in the Cork branch of Anti-War Ireland with everybody else? Your numbers hardly justify a separate group - I mean to simplify things why don't you just call yourselves the Cork branch of the IAWM, which is what you are? That would be the honest thing to do. All the former CAWC people are in AWI.

by Pat OSullivan. - Cork Alliance Against War Wed Nov 08, 2006 13:25

Very heartening to see a good turnout, especially the local people from Cobh.

The atmosphere was very good, aided by the excellent choice of music from John Jefferies!
As dignitaries made their way out of the quay in chauffered driven cars, they were met with chants of "shame" as the protestors expressed their anger by holding placards showing the reality of the killing machine that was docked in our supposedly "neutral" harbour.

Given the nature of the ships history, that it was used in the initial invasion of Iraq, this was clearly a weapon of mass destruction, which higlighted the importance of the protest.

The display of gombeenism by the local politicians has been disgraceful, and in particular Michael Ahern of the Labour Party should be taken to task for his hosting of a civic reception for the ships captain at tax payers expense.
I believe that some of the marines visited children at the local hospital - at whose invitation it is not clear - but what a sickening hypocrisy this was, given the number of children casualties amongst the estimated 650,000 deaths in Iraq.

All in all, a well organised protest, well done to the organisers, especially John Jefferies, and also Mike, Steve and Andrea who also did excellent work during the weekend by joining in in a symbolic protest on Sunday.