Callout from Rossport - Inform the public

by John Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:47

So, how come only 14 per cent of the people of Mayo support the protests?

So, how come 52 per cent of the people of Mayo want the project to go ahead 'as planned'?

These are the figures from the Prime Time poll last week.

Face facts. Your campaign is doomed. Another glorious defeat for left-wing agitators to rank
alongside the Glen of the Downs, Carrickmines Wall and the M3. We're now in the final
months of this campaign and it won't last beyond the May election. Consider the facts:

(a) The government parties are riding high in the polls and coasting to an easy victory next May.

(b) The main opposition party has an almost identical policy to the government on this issue.

(b) Left-wing parties opposed to this project are going nowhere in the polls.

(d) Parties supporting the project will get 70 per cent of the votes in the next election. That's
even after throwing in the Labour Party to your side, which is itself doubtful.

(e) Given your lack of support among the electorate, your only hope of success is to muster
enough people at protests, demos, blockades etc to physically stop the project going
ahead. But, you can't bring more than a couple of hundred to your protests. The Gardai
can easily contain them.

So, tough luck. But, its all over for you.

by sean - tnc Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:36

that survey was highly flawed and carried out by the independent which is owned and controlled by tony o'reilly who has shares in offshore gas exploration the independent tg4 polls tell the opposite - the people are against this farce in which ray burke and the rest of our fianna failed friends have got us into - is mise le meas?

by pay raise Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:39

John What shell office do you work out of?
You need a raise for all the hard work you've been doing on indymedia .
A key poll finding was the finding was clear. 44% of respondents
supported an off-shore processing option, 29% supported the Bellanaboy option
and 12% wanted the project abandoned.
Your facts are Shell facts we all know are shell facts the above is a real fact .

by Johnwatch Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:45

'So, how come only 14 per cent of the people of Mayo support the protests?'

Actually, according to the Prime Time poll, a majority, 53% of people want the protests to continue. The 14% figure refers to blockades. Only 32% of believe believed the protests should cease.

59% said they would do the exact same thing if it happened in their area.

43% believe that the campaign speaks for all, or a majority, of the community. 40% believe the campaign speaks for a minority. One is higher John. Guess which.

"So, how come 52 per cent of the people of Mayo want the project to go ahead 'as planned'?"

Because the question asked them if they would support it going ahead as planned if there was no other option. In which case, 52% said they would.

RTE didn't publish one question, which asked people what their preference was:
Off-short, as demanded by Shell to Sea: 44%
Bellanaboy, as proposed by Shell: 29%
Abandoned altogether: 12%

They admitted today they didn't publish it in the Irish Times.

"These are the figures from the Prime Time poll last week."

They are indeed. The spin you're putting on them though, that's yours.

by J Tue Nov 28, 2006 13:17

Is there any REAL difference between asking "Do you want the project to go ahead as planned?" (as reported in the Indo) and "If there was no other option, would you want the project to go ahead as planned?" (as actually asked to respondents.)

Well...is there a difference between asking "Would you eat live rats?" and "If there was no other food left on earth, would you eat live rats?"

by Etain - Shell to Sea Sligo Tue Nov 28, 2006 13:42

In response to John's comment that we havn't a hope of winning this campaign, think again John! We are WINNING. A monumental event took place yesterday when Statoil announced that they were considering withdrawing Norwegian involvement, a major blow for Shell!

This is wonderful news for the campaign and gives us all added hope that we will PUT SHELL OUT TO SEA

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK DEMONSTRATORS

by J Tue Nov 28, 2006 13:47

Do you have a link to that annoucement? Would be interested in reading it.

by guydebordisdead Tue Nov 28, 2006 13:59

"LOBBY YOUR LOCAL POLITICIANS, WRITE LETTERS, REGISTER TO VOTE;-)"

You might as well add "piss into the wind" to that list of useless and innefective tactics. If the people of Rossport were to wait for change to come from above they might just die waiting. That's the interesting thing about this struggle it has been successful because of the initiative of the locas and held back for the most part by parasitic TD's like Cowley.

by whostellingporkies Tue Nov 28, 2006 14:02

when Statoil announced that they were considering withdrawing Norwegian involvement

Bit of a difference between statoil and a poxy tiny union dont ya think?

by Etain - Shell To Sea Sligo Tue Nov 28, 2006 14:07

Hi J, Unfortunately I don't, but I would think that they will publish it soon. Havn't had the chance to check the local papers, but it was on last nights RTE news. Helga Rygvk and Terjl Nostad visited the demonstrators at Belanaboy and said that they were taking their concerns back to the Norwegian government.

by supp Tue Nov 28, 2006 15:18

Statoil says halting gas project 'not an option'

The Norwegian energy company Statoil says it is fully committed to the Corrib gas project, and halting work on the terminal is "not an option".

However, it says that failure by the original developer to communicate with residents in north Mayo was a significant "error" that has created "misunderstandings", and the situation is now "very difficult".

by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt League Tue Nov 28, 2006 15:26

Compliments to Dinny the Farmer on his piece of real writing - don't know if it was the writer's first visit to nth Mayo; if so it eloquently demonstrates what the local people have been saying for ages - once people come to visit the place and meet the people, Shell spin and Government propaganda are shown in all their worthliness.

Dinny is right, the people who continue to oppose Shell in nth Mayo are the bearers of consciousness, the other shower are the whores of (defunct) reason.

Please continue to spread the word to come to visit and witness - once you know the road the journey never seems as long again!

There's a long, long way to go in this saga; anybody who thinks it's over STILL doesn't know the place or the people.

by none Tue Nov 28, 2006 17:45

You don't decide how you are going to act by the results of an opinion poll.
you decide with your reason & conscience.

The facts in the Rossport story are clear enough, once you manage to wade through the PR and the bluff.

The struggle for the campaign is to reach people with those facts.
Then, the question is how to empower people to use those facts.
How to create change......there are obviously many many ways

I would remind people here, that, yes, indymedia allows free comments, but is it also an network for action, for linking actions & ideas.

so don't be distracted by the insults and the bluster that, among some posters seems to pass for comment.

Of course not everyone will agree with the tactics being employed: but if a campaign is to work, it must be unified. You may not agree with some of the focus of the campaign. if you don't you are free to act in any other way you want, just as long as you are clear that you don't act in the names of the other people involved.

People insult the Shell To Sea campaign, as being the work of the usual suspects, lefties, and hippies etc etc...It is clear from any contact with it that it is a very broad coalition....and the reason for this is that This Campaign crystalises many smaller issues that are affecting people's in Ireland today.

Environment, heritage, lack of proper planning & genuine consultation, development in the interests of people not just "the economy", issues of justice and democracy, the independence of the Irish State in the face of large corporate interests.....

It's success has the potential to change how things are done in this country, and get to a place where there is more democracy, fairer development, more respect for communities, and more principled government.

by chrissie Tue Nov 28, 2006 21:05

The North Mayo activists are fighting to save their homeland, environment, & their families' safety - best of luck to Shell to Sea; the campaign is growing! Were the proposed project safe & sustainable I'm sure that local people wd be in favour.

by shell to sea supporter Wed Nov 29, 2006 08:12

Look at all the lessons he learned from Shell to Sea about life in his homeland. Thank you for taking the time to spell it all out and for the trip you made as so many other honest and good people have done. Where the political system is failing, the people have to take responsibility for their homeland. If the Government cannot manage an election register what hope that it can manage other issues. How many people are off the register?What % of the population votes? That is really the proportionate strength of its mandate.
We have to make them do our will. Our anger must transtate into straight talking to them. And I hope to hear of a Shell to Sea Dingle very soon to follow the 3 new Shell to Seas in Mayo. Maybe we can all double and treble our groups allowing new leaders emerge and attach them to local placenames in addition to the strong and dedicated County groups.

by Etain - Shell To Sea Sligo Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:59

I would support Maura Harrington in urging everyone who can, to go down to Bellanaboy and see the situation for yourself and talk to the demonstrators ,if you can go on the protest, that would be wonderful, if not lend your support in other ways bring food, warm clothing etc etc

A message for those who want to rant and rave at the guards, YOUR NOT WELCOME, if you have a grievience or some other private battle to fight, go do it somewhere else, this is not the time and place.

When I was at the trailor, we gave two of the activists Kate and Andrew a lift back to camp, on our way back we witnessed two guarda vans heading in that direction, it made us wonder whether or not they were on their way to their headquaters near 'Bellanaboy or whether they were going down to camp, simply to cause trouble.

We heard stories of local guards intimidating the demonstrators, this is not acceptable behaviour and needs to be investigated thoroughly.

Best of luck to all those we met, Noel Harrington, Terence Conway, Mary , Tom Mc Hale etc etc

keep up the good work folks!

by maire Wed Nov 29, 2006 13:32

It is encouraging for so many reasons that Shell to Sea exists. With corporate spin clouding the realities of taking a gas pipe inshore for 7 miles with risks at every weld on this pipe from high pressure gas and the lack of real consultation with the stakeholders living close by. This is not just a local issue, it is a national issue.
Comparing Norway to Ireland is not on.Norway has much more stringent controls - Ireland has not yet ratifies the Aarhus convention, which may have protected the West from this pipe line.
To infer that Shell to Sea don't want the oil is criminal, it is the method of bringing it ashore that is the problem. Does anyone remember reading Ellenor Butler's old geography book in school - when went -" Ireland has no natural resourses" Well we certainly don't have any on the West coast we have given them away.

by curious Wed Nov 29, 2006 13:44

To infer that Shell to Sea don't want the oil is criminal, it is the method of bringing it ashore that is the problem

Why then did garavan state earlier in the campaign that they were against hydrocarbons being used at all?

that is a problem i hope you are addressing as it is losing you support when you have statements like for example that one and the socialists one which stated that the oil should not be used full stop!
Dont let your good cause get hijacked and ruined by extremists

I support the pipeline being built at sea, i do not however support this dont use the oil crap!!

I wish you well in your campaign and hope you increase your publicity through non-violent actions

by Mark C Wed Nov 29, 2006 18:57

Behave Like Shell...

Shell 1

Shell 2

by poster Wed Nov 29, 2006 20:15

should be easy to print

by reader Wed Nov 29, 2006 20:47

John:
(d) Parties supporting the project will get 70 per cent of the votes in the next election. That's
even after throwing in the Labour Party to your side, which is itself doubtful.

(e) Given your lack of support among the electorate, your only hope of success is to muster
enough people at protests, demos, blockades etc to physically stop the project going
ahead. But, you can't bring more than a couple of hundred to your protests. The Gardai
can easily contain them.

I know he's a troll and feeding them makes them big, dumb, and strong, but does anyone else not feel he has a bit of a point here? What's the bets FF & FG will win at least 4 out of the 5 seats in Mayo next time, and Dr Cowley's seat is probably fairly wobbly too?

Shannon at the height of the anti-war 'movement' (cough) was pulling down over a thousand people (even then that's still only 0.025% of the population, but its still 4 times what the largest crowd have been at Rossport).

I guess these are bigger, long-term questions about where the country - and direct action movements are going, but it pains me to say he's depressingly close to being right. At the time of 100,000 in the streets of Dublin for F15 (sorry to harp on about it, and no I'm not a trot in an antiwar guise), people were sure the Government would bend/break and stop the Shannon fuelstop. But it fizzled out, even despite the brief resurgence of interest after the CW5 trial - which ultimately materialised into nothing of note. Why? Because all the people who had been down in Shannon were over in Mayo... there wasnt enough people to run two direct actions at once... that's a fairly sobering and depressing scenario about how millions of people (yes, 4 million) just arent interested in it.

I'll cynically predict the same thing happening with Erris as happened with Shannon... if the breach of Irish neutrality and foreign troops taking a tea break on their way to an illegal war didnt get thousands of people worked up enough to maintain a continuous campaign of civil resistance against it and stop it happening, then the laying of a pipe across a few back gardens isnt going to do it either.

by a man Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:41

Troll John's questions are very pertinent and the feeling that this campaign is up against it is accurate.

Yet once you've grasped the facts and issues at stake, this is a much more winning and winnable campaign than Shannon.

Shannon came up directly against American Foreign policy, and from the outset was not coherehtly organised(ah the benefit of hindsight!)

Also, it was negative in its conception....the "ANTI war " "movement"

And certain groups seemed to get their ideological hands on some of the reins of the campaign....

Shell To Sea is all positives.
It is not against development, it is FOR better, fairer, ethical development
It is not against the goverment, it is FOR a government that will act in the interests of people.
Shell To Sea is of local origin
Shell To Sea is steered by local ordinary people, in conjunction with their supporters around the country, not by professional activists, although they too participate and give great energy to the actions.

Shell To Sea crystallises many of the small and not so small issues that are dogging communities around the countries and put into focus just how far this government and their friend in Fine Gael and the right wing of the Labour party are prepared lie down in front of the agendas of Corporate interest.

It puts into perspective the Agenda & Control of Independent Newspapers.
It put into perspective how far removed politicians are from a sense of the real national interest.

It also show the importance of having a free media, and should make us appreciate the democratic service provided by Indymedia.

For these reasons and more, Shell To Sea has the moral truthforce behind it that can carry it on to a new level over the coming months.

But don't sit on the fence and wonder about these things. Travel to Rossport and be convinced for yourself. and get involved in what ever way you can.

by jeff Thu Nov 30, 2006 20:57

I always felt this poll was flawed. It does not make sense as to why people would back a faceless corporation over rural peasants who are the victims of compulsory land purchases, and have to make do with a huge gas pipeline in their respective back gardens.

I remember some time back the Irish Times releasing a poll showing a certain number of people would support Sinn Fein in government. The Sindo had a big rant asking if we were mad as a people, and then concluding that the Irish Times must be responsible for some sort of spin. Of course, the Sindo is constantly accusing RTE, The Irish Times and others of secretly being a cabal of Maoists!

In fact, all the Sindo does is rant. Then, for a change, they pay some young graduate to write another rant about cabals of left wing extremists in the media.

Basically, they got it wrong about the invasion of Iraq, they pay people who appear on Your a Star to comment on politics and now they expect me to believe some poll of theirs.

The good news is that people aren't that dumb anymore. Which is why, everytime I go into the shop on Sunday to buy the paper late in the evening, all the papers are generally sold out, except for the Sindo, which is in abundance.

So now, Shell to Sea, keep really going this time, don't be deflated! :0D

by mayo Thu Nov 30, 2006 20:57

Dinny the farmer's piece is excelent, perfectly to the point, I'm gonna FWD it on to other people. Without the depressing Comments.. Disregarding the trolls and the just plain stupid, when readers of this website give out about 'extremists' who are against Shell (full stop) as somehow taking away from the power of the campaign, then they are as bad as the trolls. Look at the history of Shell. Look at their business practices. Look at their impact on the environments they occupy. Look at the FACT of critical global warming (made worse by continuing use of oil) and then say that someone who may be against Shell, or further oil 'expoloration' is an extremist. The extremist is the one who continues down a path they know is wrong.
Keep up the good work in Mayo

by Hugh Murphy - Sacked by my union ex Belfast Docker Thu Nov 30, 2006 21:46

While the Shell to Sea campaign has 'right' on its side - from a humanitarian, environmental and ecological point of view, why have I not heard a hue and cry about the 11peope killed when a pipeline exploded in East Java Province, Indonesia on 24 November?

The group which partly owned the gas company is controlled by the Indonesian chief welfare minister's family.

Hugh Murphy

by ex writer Thu Nov 30, 2006 23:38

Why dont you write an (original) article about it for Indymedia?

People wont know about things unless someone else tells them.

by indeed Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:37

The group which partly owned the gas company is controlled by the Indonesian chief welfare minister's family

Most on Indonesian businesses are controlled by the family of politicians,more so than most countries, a slight byproduct of Sueharto the glorious. If you tried to demonstrate in Indonesia you would most likely be shot or tortured

Which is why i cringe sometimes when i see so much whining here about how ***brutal** the gardai are

If you call getting a smack of a baton brutal and torture, what do you call getting electric shocks, hung up for hours on end or watching your wife/sister get raped in front of you

by Joe Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:04

An interesting set of ideas 'indeed'. One rather major flaw, no one has actuallly referred to 'getting a slap of a batton' as torture have they. You just made that up.

In fact the whole logic of your argument is that providing they are doing something worse to someone else somewhere you should count yourself lucky and not complain.

For sure Shell are up to much worse elsewhere but you know people in Rossport are actually aware of this. If you go down there you'll find a memorial to those Shell had hung in Nigeria across the road from the refinery site. If you go into Rossport itself you'll find a huge mural of Ken Saro-Wiwa on the end wall of a barn.

by Etain - Shell To Sea Sligo Mon Dec 04, 2006 14:57

To Indeed,

Point taken about the police in other countries being more violent, I would agree with you on that , having witnessed some dreadful events in other countries.,but are the events in Ballenaboy going to set a precedent for the Garda Siochana to behave violently at every peaceful demonstration,? Ever heard the phrase Non Violent Direct Action. Yesterday I caught the second half of a program, where a particular person stated that the government had announced that they had no control over the force in general, what sort of statement is that? No accountability? A very worrying development.