Fas scheme workers abused in the social economy

by Friend of FAS workers - Workers Rights Commission Sun Dec 07, 2008 00:38

There is no respect for the FAS worker from those in charge of the CE schemes.

When 4 or 5 young girls on a CE scheme are in the same office as their male Supervisor who has S & M porn in the filing cabinet and FAS Head Office in Waterford even confirm same in a letter but leave it up to the Sponsors in the Church who has the scheme to deal with the problem and they do nothing but leave the man in his job for another 2 years it undermines the FAS CE staff there who had to continue working in the same room as him.

More info at link below.

by FAS Schemes Mon Dec 08, 2008 00:05

The importance is in getting general recognition of the situation that FAS scheme workers were placed in through being situated in organisations that often viewed and treated these employees as second class. While this lead to bad treatment of individuals throughout the country in many organisations, for many years, this has not been recognised. The importance is in giving these individuals the opportunity to come forward and speak out against the organisations and FAS for failing for years to respond to the matter.

While each case is important in its own right, it is important first to establish if the structure of these schemes lead to a consensus in these organisations of a less worth employee.... Which might have precipitated a culture that allowed frustration to be taken out on what was already a consensually agreed a devalued individual.

The point being do you ensure recognition that suffering took place generally in relation to FAS scheme workers, in the hope that a formal apology may some day be forthcoming.

Are do you simply walk away in realisation of the futility of coming up against a goverment organisation and organisations that originally to a large extent condoned the behaviour in the fist place.

by John Tue Dec 09, 2008 18:18

I'm not sure if this is the same thing but when I was 16 and on a course it was decided that I should be transfered to a different course and work for fas (for free) while i waited. That took over a month, 9 till 5.

by FAS Supervisor Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:49 dromcollogher at gmail dot com

I am extremely sorry to hear that any Participants are being badly treated on FAS Projects. However, personally, I try and ensure that all participant on the CE Project are treated with respect and my main priority is their welfare.

Regrettably, the Participants' undermine society's attitude to their work by not wanting to be identified with FÁS. In reality they should be proud of the fact they are FÁS Workers, as in the Project I am involved in, they are vital element in running the Organisation.

by rioella Fri Dec 19, 2008 01:51

I was CE Supervisor for a year on a project in finlgas, and on many previous Projects over the years. And I thoroughly enjoyed my work in community employment, I firmly believe CE gives a lot back to communities, with the work that is done by the Participants and the training gained by the Participants gives them a purpose and Goals and in many cases employment.

But I have to honestly say that I have experienced first hand abuse verbal abuse and in one case physical abuse at the hands of some Participants, but I am aware as a Fully qulaified CE Supervisor that many participants on these Projects come with Personal Baggage. I always accepted this, and I felt I always handled situations with Empathy and respect.

But what I have found over the years is that the Committees most definately abuse there powers, and usually the CE Supervisor is the one that is manipulated by them and not shown the support they deserve. Fás has always backed off when things got tough, for example, when it comes to health and safety in the workplace, Protection of the supervisor and staff. The fact is Participants and Supervisors will never be fully supported and backed up by Fás, they will always sneak behind their Rules and Regulations and leave the Committees to solve any problems embarrassing or serious.

There for I have resigned myself to been unemployed and have decided to emigrate, this country has nothing to offer and I have tried and tried. The people at the top in Ireland with always be manipulators and never give credit to those who have put there heart and sole into these Community Projects.

In a nutshell I dont think these CE Schemes have a Future.

by Phelim M. Fri Dec 19, 2008 03:20

I share the disillusionment of others at recent revelations about spendthrift expenditure by the top brass at FÁS and some of their political groupies. It's a far cry from my previous image of the organisation as something set up to combat poverty and help the unemployed to increase their employability by learning new practical skills. I am shattered to read that several Dublin CE scheme workers had bad experiences with their supervisors re. conditions of employment. I say this because I had a few useful experiences some years back when living unemployed in another part of Ireland. For me the part-time employment and the couple of training courses I was sent on did a lot to keep my spirits up. I didn't get fulltime employment as a result, mainly because I live in a shadow area with few economic development chances, but I learned how to spend my time creatively. I hope they sort out the priorities of the organisation and bring it back to concentrating on its establishing principles.

At the beginning FÁS was rightly criticised for funding several local schemes that entailed cleaning up derelict graveyards with dilapidated, mainly protestant, church buildings. The weeds and ivy took over again after a short time. There were wall building schemes reminiscent of "Famine Follies " funded by Britain in the 19th century, which led to the cynical expression The Great Wall of FÁS. The brass at HQ took on these criticisms and as time went on funded work schemes that were intended to have long term community development functions, such as rehabilitating old buildings as community and training service centres.

As we go deeply into recession I urge that the government helps FÁS to expand the CE schemes and related work creation programmes in city and country areas. Work routine is better than drink debilitation and suicide.

by Ex CE scheme worker who worked in HONEST scheme (a rarety) Fri Dec 19, 2008 17:45

Like the Banks all of these schemes need a complete clearing out of Sponsors, Supervisors and Staff who are only involved for their own paydays, abuse of power, manipulation of choosing friends for fat salary jobs etc.

Also having actual FAS staff on voluntary Committees so they get 'insider information' and maybe special treatment if their scheme runs into problems.

It all stinks to high heaven.

Check out this link for more info

by Phelim M Mon Dec 22, 2008 05:41

While agreeing that particular FÁS Community Employment schemes need to be examined, possibly by participation of actual FÁS staff on local programme committees, (would there be enough staff available for this, or could the FÁS persons drop in on periodic committee meetings on a rotational basis?) I don't want to see this thread ending too quickly or being diverted by those who have enemies other than the spendthrift upper echelons of the organisation.

At this time of financial collapse nationwide and worldwide the dole queues are getting bigger by the week. There is great need for job creation as well as new skills training to help people look for new kinds of employment. In city and country there is growing need for local social employment schemes, and FÁS has years of practical experience in this field. Groups of the unemployed need to meet locally and conduct brains trusts that will come up with suggestions for appropriate schemes that could be supported financially and administratively by FÁS. And local councillors and TDs need to be lobbied about enhanced government funding for work creation everywhere. I'd like other former participants in CE schemes who have been on various training courses to share their experiences and suggestions here while the thread is live.

by Past FAS CE scheme worker Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:18

When you hear of Sponsors not wanting to dismiss FAS Supervisors for having PORN in the workplace because IT WOULD ROCK THE FINANCIAL boat and the scheme may not roll over again next year it is an abuse of power.

FAS seem to be overloaded with manpower in the ranks so why when something serious like this happens did they leave it to the Sponsor to deal with as he saw fit. The girls on the scheme still had to work in the same small room as this man for a further 2 years AND HE REMAINED A FAS SUPERVISOR!!!

Would you like your twenty something daughter to be stuck in a room with a flirty old man of 65 and she in early 20's as most of the girls on the particular FAS scheme were? Where was the FAS concern for these girls?

Because the Sponsor was a Priest did they leave it up to him to do the right thing but of course he did not - he was thinking maybe the cash cow will end if he did the right thing.

All the talk that went on in the scheme at that time was EXPANDING outside the actual Church premises and SUPPLYING staff to other places around Bray and Enniskerry that needed CE staff. They are STILL doing it to this day.l For each BODY comes some extra profit or commission for the Church (it was almost like being a pimp thinking of the money not the girls or men on the scheme).

Worse still the eventual Supervisor who replaced the man with the porn although a female was NOT vetted by FAS Office in charge of the scheme as being suitable qualification wise for a managerial job of that status supervising staff on several schemes around the area and keeping financial and bookeeping records etc. They have informed us from Waterford Office in charge of East Coast schemes that they were NOT invited to sit in on the interviews!!!! She was a part time sports teacher and supermarket shop employee prior to her new big managerial job BUT SHE IS A PERSONAL FRIEND OF THE PARISH PRIEST. JOBS FOR THE GIRLS!!! (Helps too when your husband is a retired Sargeant).

It looks like she also MANAGES the Parish Centre which is a conflict of interests according to the previous Supervisor who said he was NOT meant to double job and he was there to run the FAS scheme and not be responsible for the Parish Centre but he did BOTH and of course that meant healthy personal expenses.

Sponsor abused rules by using FAS CE girls for 7 months to do the job of a full time permanent employee when she was unfairly dismissed which meant once there was a bum in her seat the full time person was not required to come back. This was not staff training for the girls dumped into her job and FAS said so and eventually made the Parish Priest take their staff out of the job but he abused his power and the FAS scheme in the meantime.

With all the blatant misdemeanours why is the scheme left at the Church????????

There are 3 other Churches and Parishes in the town that could do a better job of managing this scheme why is it not transferred? Of course the Parish Priest now in charge as Sponsor knows the FAS ropes having dealt with other FAS schemes in the past in inner city Dublin and at a charity house in Wexford so he has the 'connections and the power' which says it all.

by Norm Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:11

Typically these schemes have been run in charities with tight budgets and are just interested in managers who get the job done. In the past this has been done by individuals with little or no pepole skills. I am aware that there are good people in all areas of these schemes and I don't wish to offend them in any way. The important thing to remember is that these schemes are designed to give skills and experience to individuals to enable them to get full time long term careers. This typically has been ignored by the organisations that have taken them on. These skill and learned experiences need to be valid and specific as they can be to the needs of the individual. Any individual/s working in a relativly issolated area with any manager who is not themselves being suppervised, is in an at risk position. It is simply an unhealthy practice.

In charities where you might be doing care work where a manager is also taking you for supervission of your welfare, which can lead to a conflic of interests. The standard in any good organisation is one of cross care, where your supervission comes from someone outside your immediate work area.

Things in the past have lead to suffering some of which I personaly experienced and at the time was desmissed.

I personnaly know that FAS to a large extent new individuals were being mistreated and did nothing for years.

My point is not to debate the issue which for me and others that I have spoken to is a given. But simply do we get or are we entitled to and explanation and a simple appology would go a long way.....

Recognition and a simple appology would be health and an indication and acknowledgement that change is a desired route for FAS and the organisations that have had a high rate of staff turnover on these schemes...

by Previous FAS CE worker Tue Dec 23, 2008 17:20

It is right as mentioned earlier that those on CE programmes are meant to be gaining new skills to help them get a full time job.

However that is forgotten when as a Church you just want free staff to do the donkey work and have the Government pay them to do the work so it does not eat into the Church PROFITS.

There is always one girl on the CE scheme whose main duty is to wash out and clean the toilets, make teas in the Coffee dock and wash up and clean there.

As either a single or young mum she would already have those basic skills from living at home and she is certainly not gaining new skills being a general dogsbody on this CE scheme doing the work that nobody else would touch.

Some of the males on the staff are sent out to pick up rubbish in the Church grounds, fill the bins or to warn off parishioners who may decide to park in an area that the Parish Priest has decided nobody is going to park in any more. Doubt these men who are capable of much more are learning anything by doing this basic work which saves the Church paying somone else to do as the Government are funding these mens salaries.

The Parish Priest is always preaching about THE DIGNITY OF THE PERSON but to offer such work on CE schemes when basically you are just getting free staff to do so is an abuse of the scheme as the Government intended and is just supplying slave labour free to the Church while the Supervisor and Sponsors get big fat cat payments.

Something is very rotten in the Church on the hill running this FAS scheme.

by FAS Schemes Tue Dec 23, 2008 20:46

I understand that the work is often general labouring and this is often a lower skill then the individuals often already have. But to get back to the original point I was making. I am more concerned not so much with the type of work as such but am more concerned with how the priest generally treats these individuals. Does he talk down to them does he have respect and dignity fior them.

I personally don't mind the work I do, just don't harass me while I'm doing it and treat me as an equal.

I was insulted shouted at threatened and intimidated following work on one of these schemes.

The FAS workers in this organisation were not only not regarded as equal to the full time social workers, but it was openly tolerated that they could be spoken down to insulted, and any suggestion that something be done dismissed.

I was treated disgracefully and in many ways criminally...

My biggest fault was that I was quiet, polite and different, the other fault I had was I knew what was going on was wrong. The other FAS workers just accepted what they got, I guess they felt helpless, or they just somehow got used to it.

It is these people I am most interested in helping.

In my experience it was a culture of individuals that had at various times headed up different sections of the organisation and effectively were answerable to no one.

More than anything I found the experience disturbing, constantly being asked to give account of myself or actions while never having any answers to my questions returned.

To have your job description constantly expanded to fit the changing needs of the organisation. To be asked to do the work of others in another section while the full time staff sat and drank tea.

The one resounding characteristics that all these people had is that without the support of each other and the organisation that stood behind them, THEY WERE ALL COWARDS>>.

by FAS survivor Wed Dec 24, 2008 04:43

Did you ever ask other CE scheme workers to make a formal complaint about these matters? I'd say such things should formally be brought to the attention to the high-ups at national headquarters.

by Michael - Human League Wed Dec 24, 2008 08:41

......Why would any member of Fas Schemes bother their arse 'reporting' their well founded fears when Fas is rotten from the core ?
Fas is a little club for a lot of people, a means to an end for more who are trying to leapfrog into respectability there by sharing experience of past
working methods with others not so fortunate .

When the hot shots can get away with almost anything flying in the face of reason. then reporting one or more for what a 'probable whistleblower 'may
find unacceptable behaviour then the knives come out ,not for the reported .but for the reporter ,

The system is rotten when the genuine are surpressed . Come to think of it have we forgotten the 'recent turmoil 'within Fas ?
............Of course we have............

by Kevin T. Walsh - Social Justice and Ethics Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:10

Michael

A well written article but I for one and my friend Jack Russell, for two have not forgotten the millions of euros of waste of the now exposed Monkey's who are in charge of FAS.

You couldn't write the script in a Hollywood comedy - even the Goonies would find it hard to measure up to Roddy Doyle's comments to a Dail Special Committee. 'Personally, he told them I don't like flying'. Greg Craig was on sick leave for over 9 months - according to an Irish Independent Journalist, he was raking in the expenses yet he wasn't at work. O Michael my Russell has just reminded me - don't forget the two parties in the Shelbourne and the Westin - it cost the taxpayer approx. Euros30,000. I would love to know the conversation over desert - was it spaceships or hairdo's or maybe how to get the golf handicap down.

I wonder who will lead FAS in the year 2009. I dont think Sponge Bob Square Pants would be the man but I hear a rumour that Bertie could be the man to clean up the mess seeing that he is a legend on Ethics, Accountability Transparency, afternoon speeches, new book deal, and now I ask have we all forgotten the Mahon Tribunal - it made 102 barristers millionaires and we only jailed two people. O my God Michael.....Russell is on his back howling with laughter.....I wonder why?

Keep writing. Merry Christmas and Keep safe

K.T. Walsh

by Michael - Human League Wed Dec 24, 2008 14:41

.....And Merry Christmas to you K.T.
Perhaps while out and about 'they 'might have been talking about Keeping the Handicapped Down ?
Signs are positive at least with our new hero, the Minister FOR Children who has to be admired for going the extra mile with his No Holds Barred
Approach to 'ethics' which Michelle and Your Good self keep hammering home week in week out to your army of pupils on Indymedia and not to
ever forget the Good Lady From Bray who is still battling away under terrible pressure against the stench of corruption mixing with the Sea Air Of My
Home Town of yesteryear .
Gone are the days when the micro tape recorder was shoved under Nice One Cyril and his Tales of the unexpected whilst sipping in the company of
Kings And Queens in Ze Shelbourne Hotel , A Tale Which brought Both He And O'Flaherty to the attention of the media and into the public domain.
And yes the Tribe Funerals have got to go down like the Titanic went down unless same are resurrected as the Titanic was . Where Are You Today
Neil Jordan when you could dispence with the sriptwriterzz and just let the camera's roll on what really is going on in our once proud city of Dublin ?

by Victim of FAS Sun Jan 11, 2009 19:29

When you write to the powers that be with genuine complaints about the running of a FAS scheme what other options have you when they ignore the complaints?

It seems to me that if they decide to ignore the complaint you have no other means of having an audit taken of the particular scheme.

You can write to Dublin head office, the local office in the town in charge of the scheme and also the office in charge of the region that the CE scheme is situated in but you never even get a courtesy reply from any of these three offices.

What does it take to have anything done? Why are these dodgy schemes allowed to continue for years when there are obvious abuses of the system.

Is it again the Church State link where they work together no matter what and FAS don't want to know because the scheme is being run by a local Church?

by Bernadette Wed Feb 18, 2009 01:36

Very interesting to see Prime Time tonight and their programme on FAS abuses, wasting of money and how CE schemes are run, (or not run for that matter) on Church premises.

They turned up a lot of very interesting facts on a FAS CE Scheme whose sponsors was the Catholic Church and Parish Priest in Castlebar.

Seems over a period of 5 years the Church had got over €4 million Euro because their scheme was looked on favourably for funding because their business plan had included MEALS ON WHEELS SERVICES.

The story went on that the Church and Parish Centre for years had been drawing down money for the CE Scheme and did not stick to the Business Plan nor were they checked out and one man interviewed who was told by the Parish Priest to stop his investigations because they would cause trouble for the Parish admitted that not one meal had been prepared by FAS CE staff belong to the Church and just one FAS worker had worked part time in the kitchen. The fact was Meals on Wheels had been done by Social Services in the town during the years FAS would have understood the Church were doing it.

RTE also uncovered that the Church broke the rules as those involved in the CE programme are NOT allowed to take fees for running training courses themselves for the CE workers but they could see their names and payments for same.

A Priest there could not answer questions about the CE scheme and referred them to Sr. Mary Theresa but when they contacted this Nun she said the FAS scheme was not her responsibility so she could not answer any questions.

The bottom line was that the FAS CE scheme was OPEN TO ABUSE and it happens in Church run programmes like Castlebar.

RTE were able to show letters from the Church to FAS and vice versa.

It is maybe about time that this Prime Time programme followed up another Church scheme who may be using the same TRICK in their business plan of the MEALS ON WHEELS in order to get favourable funding because they have 3 or 4 staff working in a voluntary service here in Bray for meals on wheels but the Church is NOT providing meals on wheels OR distributing them.

From enquiries made the girls employed there just fill an industrial washing machine to do the washing up, do likewise with the potato peeling machine, count the number of containers going out for the dinners, take the frozen vegetables out of the freezer and sometimes keep an eye on the food that is cooking. In other words it is purely very basic domestic work. It is not rocket science and it is NOT running MEALS ON WHEELS. It is also not upgrading of skills for future job training.

This Bray scheme has also like Castlebar FAS CE scheme broken the rules.

Rules broken

PUTTING FAS STAFF INTO A FULL TIME PERSON'S JOB FOR 7 MONTHS WHICH BROKE RULES "BIG TIME"

ALLOWING A FAS SUPERVISOR (MALE) WHO HAD PORN IN THE WORKPLACE TO REMAIN IN EMPLOYMENT FOR 2 YEARS AFTER PARISH PRIEST VIEWED THE PORN.

PROTECTION OF YOUNG WOMEN WORKING ON THE SCHEME WAS IGNORED WHEN THEY HAD TO CONTINUE WORKING WITH HIS MAN IN THE SAME ROOM THE FAS OFFICE.

Let us HOPE the PARISH has better policies for THEIR CHILD PROTECTION.

EVENTUALLY HIRING AN UNQUALIFIED PERSON TO TAKE OVER THE FAS SUPERVISOR'S JOB WITHOUT FAS HEAD OFFICE STAFF SITTING IN ON THE INTERVIEWS. (This was confirmed by Mr. Marius Cassidy in Waterford Office in a phone call). SAID SUPERVISOR IS ONLY NOW OVER A YEAR LATER DOING HER OWN TRAINING PROGRAMME TO QUALIFY FOR THE JOB!!!

FAS SUPERVISOR QUADRUPLE JOBS - IS FAS SUPERVISOR, RUNS THE PARISH CENTRE FOR THE CHURCH, RUNS ALMOST EVERY GROUP IN THE PARISH TOO. THERE IS NO END TO THIS LADY'S WORK IN THE PARISH.

IS ALL OF THIS NOT A MAJOR CONFLICT OF INTERESTS THAT FAS SHOULD LOOK INTO? Is she working for the Church and MOONLIGHTING for FAS or vice versa?

Staff on the CE scheme at the Church do such menial jobs that it is certainly not helping them to upgrade skills. They are cleaning toilets and Parish Centre rooms and kitchen, making teas, that is the female staff. The males tidy up rubbish in the Church grounds. They are also sent out to chase away harrassed Parishioners who park in areas where the Parish Priest does not wish them to park. In other words what the FAS scheme offers the Parish in Bray is free labour paid for by the Government.

The Parish Priest knows ALL THE ANGLES having been involved in Dublin with FAS sponsored schemes including AN SIOL where he was on their Committee and was also involved with MILLENNIUM TRUST organised by them and who have a FAS staffed holiday home in Wexford for inner city families.

The Bray Parish is OUR LADY QUEEN OF PEACE.

The Parish Priest who tolerated the porn on work premises where staff ought to have been allowed to work in a porn free environment without having risque remarks made to them and risque emails being sent on their PARISH computers is Fr. Larry White PP.

Why is the FAS scheme allowed to remain in this Church?

Have FAS looked into the man on one of the Church Committees who is not from the Parish being a fairly high ranking staff member of FAS? Would the Parish get more favourable treatment because of him being there - can he get the Parish out of scrapes with FAS?

As Prime Time said tonight about Castlebar the SAME THING should be said about this Bray scheme.

IT NEEDS A FULL INVESTIGATION BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF FAS.

by johnwrites Thu Jul 23, 2009 16:26

CE Supervisors also subject of Abuse and Manipulation
by rioella Fri Dec 19, 2008 01:5

You say participants have personal baggage. This is also true of some supervisors.

by Karen Kennedy Fri Jul 24, 2009 22:28

Some schemes are just prone to hiring lousy supervisors.

A FAS CE scheme mentioned above had one recovering alcoholic after another. The three men in a row. One was fired after crashing his car while drunk, next one was not over the drink either and smelt of it during working hours and was in to other unsavouy things and the third was in to porn and sexual harrassment of women.

After three in a row striking out a safe bet was then an unqualified for the job female crony of the Boss the Parish Priest. She now runs the Church and the FAS scheme. Even FAS know she is not qualified for the job but can't say a word against the Holy Man.

by johnwrites Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:32

people can complain to FAS. Supervisors have to do a course. If enough noise is made then something will be done

by shoulder weight Sat Jul 25, 2009 16:02

If CE workers have serious grievances they can mount a picket on the FAS headquarters and hand in letters detailing the facts. Also contact the papers for publicity and exposure.