Communist Party of the Irish Republic Statement on the Ungoing Massacre of Civilians in Bani Walid, Libya.

by Roddy G - CPI(ML) refoundation Sat Oct 27, 2012 14:36

Can we deduce that the 'Communist party of the Irish Republic' is a Trotskyite formation given the references to Comrade Trotsky. What is your party program and constitution?

by An Draighneán Donn Fri Oct 26, 2012 09:44

Yes, they probably don't go around the sewers of Dublin, asking the junkies and other wrecks, will they work for RTÉ news, but they do the up-market version of that. They creep about the journo schools, and see which students have been careful to never write anything from the heart. Which students have always gauged what the bought and sold teacher wanted to hear, and gave that wreck of humanity what he or she wanted to hear - mostly, as Nietzsche would have put it, that sickness and slavish viciousness in the name of brute power, is the only civilized point of view - when such a student has knelt before the sickness of his or her teacher, RTÉ can feel sure that such a student will vomit all the sickness that the bourgeois régime needs to feed to its herd animals.

by An Draigneán Donn Fri Oct 26, 2012 00:35

We should be surprised that while the RTÉ "news" room shouts and screams murder, based on every shaky bit of mobile phone footage supplied to it by the sectarian gangs in Syria, RTÉ has maintained absolute silence on Bani Walid. Of course, the new RTÉ head of current affairs is straight from the BBC, so we shouldn't expect anything even resembling balanced or accurate reporting - but, the RTÉ "news" room already had a long and disgraceful record of propagandizing for imperialist adventures. I only wonder why they thought they needed a BBC man at all? Was it actually to stop them from being so slavish and mendacious, that they would lose even the most naive of viewers?

by wageslave - (moderator) Thu Oct 25, 2012 17:49

If anyone wants to write a piece about Mao, fine go do that
If anyone wants to write a piece discussing a new Political party, fine go do that

But please, no more off topic discussion or playing the player here on this thread ok?

Topic is Bani Walid and discussion / updates of what is going on there.

[moderator]

by Communism Shomunism Thu Oct 25, 2012 17:33

that s/he cease the Communist and Pro-Mao propaganda and talk about Bani Walid - which he claims is the subject here

given the Pro-Mao/Communist statements it seems s/he's more interested in using this thread as a means to promote her/his political party using Bani Walid as a spring-board

by wageslave - (moderator) Thu Oct 25, 2012 17:28

If you want to squabble about mao and communism then one of you can write a seperate piece and start a thread about that.

This one is about the attacks on Bani Walid.

Stay on the topic please or expect moderation!

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 16:35

I see that the pro-Nato Rat "Libya Herald" is admitting that 25,000 people have been forced to flee Bani Walid, as rat militias have fired grad rockets at the town from up to 35 miles away, with no idea of where the rockets are landing. It's seems the UN Responsibility to Protect doctrine is only intended to be used against régimes that are not operating in the interests of the USA. As mentioned above, Russian attempts to raise Bani Walid at the UN have been blocked by the USA.

UN General Secretary, Ban Ki-Moon has defended the massive crimes against humanity being perpretrated by Misrata militias, on the basis that states must be able to enforce military control over all areas of their national territory.

by Communism Shomunism Thu Oct 25, 2012 16:27

Yes, that's what you claim alright, that it's about Bani Walid

but you seem to be more concerned with promoting Communism than anything else - looking at your comments so far you've made several concerned with Stalin, Mao and Trotsky.

None of them are Libyan last time I checked.

Trying to claim you're here to talk about Bani Walid is contradicted by the fact that most of your comments are about Communism Mao, Stalin and Trotsky

by Communism Shomunism Thu Oct 25, 2012 16:23

regarding your Party you said

We are a party that operates on Direct Democracy and Consensus, so some policies may take longer to agree on.

I'm pretty sure Mao didn't have a lot of truck with Direct Democracy and Consensus so I'm a little astounded that someone that claims to be committed to those things is also at the same time promoting Mao.

Your stated principles, Direct Democracy and Consensus, are completely at odds with your devotion to "Comrade" Mao

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 16:20

Im very happy to refute the slanders that you have mindlessly learned by rote from the bourgeois media, regarding Communism, but this is actually a thread about Bani Walid. Your constant efforts to derail the thread may be motivated by a desire to shift attention from the massacre that's taking place TODAY.

RT is reporting that 600 people were killed yesterday, and a thousand hospitalized. The hospital itself was attacked by the Misrata gangs.

http://rt.com/news/bani-walid-siege-source-211/

by Communism Shomunism Thu Oct 25, 2012 16:15

you said

I think the immortal words of Comrade Mao cannot be surpassed:

Mao is someone you obviously idolise. You even refer to him as "Comrade" - obviously you approve of him. Voicing aproval for a psychopathic mass-murderer ain't not going to help anyone in Bani Walid, is it?

Perhaps you should stop doing so in comment threads about Bani Walid?

In fact perhaps it's better not to refer to Mao at all unless the topic of discussion is Mao

But I'm still a little perturbed that you think it's ok to quote such a psychopathic mass murderer with such a high level of approval

by Communism Shomunism Thu Oct 25, 2012 16:09

You're the one that started talking about Mao

No when someone points out he was a mass murderer you want to change the subject.

If you want the conversation to be about Bani Walid, and not about Mao, probably best not to start making comments promoting Mao, wouldn't you think?

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 16:05

It isn't Communists who are slaughtering people in Bani Walid today. Maybe the hippies and bourgeois liberals can save the hand wringing about Communism for another day.

by small_is_beautiful Thu Oct 25, 2012 15:55

too many stupid top down "isms"

It's time the human race finally realised that top down power structures are inevitably abused.

We need to reorganise society as smaller localised autonomous groupings loosely linked and no real central power to be abused.

no more stupid leaders like hitler, stalin, mao, kenny, ahern. deciding our fates.

no more huge bureaucracies bleeding our resources, crushing our spirits, spying on us, and imprisoning us for trivia.

Just co-operation to achieve mutual community goals and a healthy interdependence and fair sharing of the workload amongst all.

co-op farms, co-op supermarkets, co-op everything.

by Communism Shomunism Thu Oct 25, 2012 15:34

Would you be okay with others quoting Hitler's Mein Kampf in such an approving fashion?

Mao ended up being a megalomaniac mass-murder - no less so than Hitler, and no less so than numerous US presidents - why is Mao more acceptable than Hitler?

Like Mao , Hitler actually raised the living standards of millions of Germans - this is not an endorsement of the man. I'm merely pointing that out.

The only real difference between one and the other is that Mao didn't target Jewish people.
Do the murders of millions of Chinese peasants not count?

by Communism Shomunism Thu Oct 25, 2012 15:29

I don't have the faith in Communists that you appear to have. But then you're a communist so that comes as no surprise.

Communist Gov'ts have been responsible for for the deaths of millions of people over the years.

In Russia under Communism millions dies - In China under Communism Millions dies - I could list other holocausts carried out by those inspired by Communism but you should be able to get the picture by now.

Irrespective of the merits of any argument in favour of Communism no one should forget that communists are just as capable of mass murder as Capitalists or Fascists are.

It's not ok to blame it all on Stalin and Mao - they couldn't have done what they did without the support of their fellow communists.

Communism is not the cure-all you seem to be trying to portray it as - - it has plenty of blood on it's hands

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 14:10

25,000 children are dying every single day under the Capitalist régime, from drinking dirty water alone. Only Communism will put an end to that Holocaust of the Innocents.

by Myth Buster .. Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:47

Peachers for Communism always sound like motherhood and apple
pie.
The behaviour of that religion is as nasty as all the other "luvvie" religious superstitions.
They killed a lot of people.

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 02:50

Regarding the patriotism of the CPIR, and our appreciation of, and solidarity with, all patriots, who stand for national sovereignty and against imperialist agression, I think the immortal words of Comrade Mao cannot be surpassed:

Mao Zedong:
Can a Communist, who is an internationalist, at the same time be a patriot? We hold that he not only can be but also must be. The specific content of patriotism is determined by historical conditions. There is the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler, and there is our patriotism. Communists must resolutely oppose the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler. The Communists of Japan and Germany are defeatists with regard to the wars being waged by their countries. To bring about the defeat of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler by every possible means is in the interests of the Japanese and the German people, and the more complete the defeat the better.... For the wars launched by the Japanese aggressors and Hitler are harming the people at home as well as the people of the world. China's case, however, is different, because she is the victim of aggression. Chinese Communists must therefore combine patriotism with internationalism. We are at once internationalists and patriots, and our slogan is, "Fight to defend the motherland against the aggressors." For us defeatism is a crime and to strive for victory in the War of Resistance is an inescapable duty. For only by fighting in defense of the motherland can we defeat the aggressors and achieve national liberation. And only by achieving national liberation will it be possible for the proletariat and other working people to achieve their own emancipation. The victory of China and the defeat of the invading imperialists will help the people of other countries. Thus in wars of national liberation patriotism is applied internationalism.

"The Role of the Chinese Communist Party in the National War" (October 1938), Selected Works, Vol. II, p. 196.

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 02:23

That would be a typically bourgeois way of putting it. I would put it in terms of preferring national régimes, with a Socialist outlook, that are able to maintain peace and a moderate level of prosperity for all, than Western puppet régimes, with a privatization agenda, that are not able to maintain peace or prosperity.

Comrade Trotsky explained the properly Communist view on these matters:

Trotsky:
I'll make the simplest and most striking example. Brazil is dominated by a semi-fascist regime to which every revolutionary can not treat differently, than with hatred.

Assume, however, that tomorrow England enters into a military conflict with Brazil.

I ask you, whose side will be in this conflict the world working class? Answer for myself: I will in this case be on the side of "Fascist" Brazil against "democratic" Great Britain.

Why? Because the conflict between them will not be about democracy and fascism. If England wins, she will plant in Rio de Janeiro some other fascist to impose a double chain on Brazil. Conversely, if Brazil wins, it will give a mighty impulse to national and democratic consciousness of the country and lead to the overthrow of the Vargas dictatorship. The defeat of England will cause at the same time a blow to British imperialism and will give an impetus to the revolutionary movement of the British proletariat.

You need to have a truly empty head, to reduce global antagonisms and military conflicts to the struggle between fascism and democracy. Under all masks one must be able to distinguish between the exploiters, slaveholders and predators!

Interview with Mateo Fossa 26 sept. 1938

Trotsky:
Imperialism can exist only because there are backward nations on our planet, colonial and semi-colonial countries. The struggle of these oppressed peoples for national unity and independence has a twofold progressive character, since, on the one hand, it prepares favorable conditions of development for their own use, and on the other, it strikes blows at imperialism. Hence, in part, the conclusion that in a war between a civilized imperialist democratic republic and the backward barbarian monarchy of a colonial country, the socialists will be entirely on the side of the oppressed country, notwithstanding its monarchy, and against the oppressor country, notwithstanding its “democracy”.

1940 "Stalin – An Appraisal of the Man and his Influence"

Trotsky:
The struggle against war and its social source, capitalism, presupposes direct, active, unequivocal support to the oppressed colonial peoples in their struggles and wars against imperialism. A 'neutral' position is tantamount to support of imperialism.

Resolution on the Antiwar Congress of the London Bureau (July 1936)

by Paul Thu Oct 25, 2012 02:10

So one of the CPIR's policies is that oppressive dictatorial regimes with 40 year plus longevity are acceptable provided, in the case of Libya, they keep the peace between tribal factions and in the case of Syria, refrain, albeit allegedly, from committing genocide and avoiding destruction of property.

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 01:48

It is no accident that Turkey is still sending ship loads of weapons to the port city of Misrata, apparently independently of NTC control or permission. It's seems Turkey sees an opportunity to reactivate ancient alliances and reassert its ancient influence in Libya - just as the French have continued to keep former colonies in North Africa under their de facto control. Given Libya's vast oil wealth, and Turkey's chronic need of wealth, we should not be surprised at this turn of events. Libya is, once more, an open wound, being devoured by Great Power interests.

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 01:25

Regarding Syria, what we see is a National Army, that regards cities, such as Homs and Allepo, as their own cities, and their own people. The Syrian Army has sustained massive casualties among its troops, rather than use its massively superior firepower against the NATO funded sectarian gangs.

What we are seeing in Bani Walid is tribal warfare. Misrata militias have no love for the NTC, and do not take orders from it. They harbour a deep and ancient hatred of the whole of the Warfalla tribe, which is, by far the biggest tribe in Libya, with nearly a two million members. Bani Walid is the spiritual homeland of the Warfalla tribe. This hatred dates back to the founding of Misrata, by the Ottoman Turks, in the late 16th century, which brought settlers from the Caucasus to inhabit the area. The feuding between the Ottoman settlers in Misrata and the native Warfalla tribe has been ongoing since this time. The stabbing of Al Gaddafi in the rear, by a Misrata militia man was highly symbolic. Impalement was a form of execution that was favoured in the Caucasus for many centuries. The murder of Al Gaddafi in this manner put the killing in the context of Misrata's origins, and an expression of Misrata's ambition to stamp it's character on the "New Libya."

Misrata militias are using completely indiscriminate force against the whole population of Bani Walid, as they regard all members of the Warfalla tribe as being legitimate targets - men, women and children.

Only the firm hand that Al Gaddafi was able to keep on Libya has maintained peace for the last 40 years. We are now seeing an explosion of repressed tribal hatred all over Libya. It is estimated that about 15,000 militia men took part in the NATO led uprising in 2011. Latest estimates say that there are up to 250,000 armed militia men in Libya now.

by Paul Thu Oct 25, 2012 01:00

By that rationale it would be preferable to have highly trained and disciplined imperialist troops targeting the gangs in Bani Walid?

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 00:13

Regarding Syria, we recognise that there is a fundamental difference in category between highly trained and disciplined troops, carefully targeting the armed positions of imperialist funded sectarian gangs in Syria, and wild, untrained militias, firing wildly in the general direction of a city. Particularly when these self same militias already have a record of racist motivated, massive atrocities against the civilians of cities they have captured.

by CPIR Thu Oct 25, 2012 00:02

As a new party, we are only at the beginning of the process of formulating policies. Over the next few weeks policies will be agreed on, and published. We are a party that operates on Direct Democracy and Consensus, so some policies may take longer to agree on. Anyone interested can keep up to date and join in the debates, by joining Soviet.ie

Indymedia.ie has also been very good to us, and we will reciprocate that kindness by keeping Indymedia readers fully informed of developments.

by Elric Wed Oct 24, 2012 19:51

How about an article on the origins of the CPIR, irs policies etc?

by CPIR Wed Oct 24, 2012 17:23

A report on the disgraceful events at the UN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xFPVXDQlOI