Sligo Says No to War

by Concerned Citizen - None Sat Sep 02, 2006 18:11

Maybe this Hebrew Hammer person, should read Tom Kellys article ' Think twice before judging Israel in Middle East conflict '

Quote " Jewish people seem to born to suffer as much as any people on the face of the earth. All of this goes some way to understand the defensive psyche of modern Israelis and their feeling of isolation......Our readiness to accept the Arab version of events says much more about our own demons"

Do you really think I would bother to read this, if I was anti semitic?

by PaddyK Sat Sep 02, 2006 17:36

Yes I agree, workers rights and pensions a very relevant issue in Ireland?
But that is not the issue here. People keep stating that he's doing a great job in New York. That may or may not be the case, but the Transit workers certainly dont agree and no more than the Transit workers could give a damn if Bloomberg is Jewish do the Ballymote Protestors give a damn whether he is Jewish or not.
You are trying , once again, to link a legitimate protest against the horror of war with the Jewish identity.
Now try to be honest, what is your motivation for that?

by Hebrew Hammer Sat Sep 02, 2006 17:23

Yes, we in Ireland are very concerned about Transit worker's pensions in New York City.
Hmm I wonder what's going on with the transit workers in Philadelphia? (Jewish mayor? If so, we're VERY concerned)

by PaddyK Sat Sep 02, 2006 16:49

Not everyone thinks Bloomberg is doing such a great job, I wonder are they criticising him because they feel he is helping to wreck their lives or because he is a Jew :

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9372

[Roger Toussaint, president of the Transport Workers Union Local 100] amplified these remarks in comments later in the day to NY1, the city's all-news cable station:

"The MTA and Mayor Bloomberg are pursuing their own agenda in these contract negotiations, and that agenda is to use the transit negotiations to establish a new inferior pension tier and then impose it on hundreds of thousands of municipal workers after forcing it on the transit workers. They are also attempting to impose inferior health standards on transit workers and then impose it on future generations of city employees. This is about a larger issue, a larger fight. Then they raised the new proposal that new hires pay 6% of their wages toward their pension. Right now transit workers pay 2% of their wages toward their pension. It is a 200% increase. Their intention is to run over the rest of the labor movement with that new pension element."

by Hebrew Hammer Sat Sep 02, 2006 16:32

"
Martin, your memory is very short and you seem to have lost track of what is going on. You clearly have misunderstood what the demo in Ballymote was about. Bloomberg is pro war, he has clearly stated this in his open support of Joseph Lieberman,"

Translation:
Bloomberg is a Jew. It doesn't matter that he's doing a great job managing one of the owrld's largest cities.
In Ireland, we protest against all things Jewish and disguise it with other issues.

by Concerned Citizen - None Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:44

Martin, your memory is very short and you seem to have lost track of what is going on. You clearly have misunderstood what the demo in Ballymote was about. Bloomberg is pro war, he has clearly stated this in his open support of Joseph Lieberman, I suggest you read the New York Times. No this isnt an attack on the USA by the Irish people. We all have family or friends in the states, we are not anti american or anti semitic, the protesters are protesting against war in general.

by Concerned Citizen - None Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:39

Martin, your memory is very short and you seem to have lost track of what is going on. You clearly have misunderstood what the demo in Ballymote was about. Bloomberg is pro war, he has clearly stated this in his open support of Joseph Lieberman, I suggest you read the New York Times. No this isnt an attack on the USA by the Irish people. We all have family or friends in the states, we are not anti american or anti semetic, the protesters are protesting against war in general.

by martin Thu Aug 31, 2006 02:51

So every american that comes to ireland now is to be protested against ,funny i dont remember bloomberg having much to do with the war in iraq ,he is the elected mayor of new york city and doing a fine job by all accounts, you guys need to cop yourselves on and stop giving this country a bad name protesting over stuff you know dam all about.

by Shligigh Thu Aug 31, 2006 02:15

I am now calling publicly on Dixie and Councillor Sean McManus and Sinn Fein to publish on Indymedia the full text of the letter to Bloomberg.

There must be openness and transparency in regard to this matter. It is not for an individual to phone Sinn Fein and request a copy of the letter. (Sinn Fein has already refused to provide it)
The public have a right to know the full contents of the letter.

If Sinn Fein and Councillor Sean McManus have nothing to hide they would publish the full contents of their letter to Bloomberg.

In their letter did they welcome Mayor Bloomberg to Sligo. That’s some way of protesting!!

Let’s see the full contents of the letter - or is Sinn Fein now exercising its own form of Section 31

by AKA Guttersnipe Tue Aug 29, 2006 20:51

What Sinn Fein means by openness and transparency;

http://socialistenvironmentalalliance.org/cgi-bin/sea/a...ay.pl

by EX SF Tue Aug 29, 2006 18:37

You can’t say I wasn’t right

As I said in an earlier posting I know too well what Sinn Fein mean when they talk about openness and transparency.

Their opportunism has been well exposed on this issue.

by Siobhan R Mon Aug 28, 2006 21:44

Shligigh has exposed the opportunism and hypocrisy of Sinn Fein.

The Sinn Fein councillors participated in the function in Sligo City Hall to honour Bloomberg and one of them gave Bloomberg a letter when they were leaving. “outlining Sinn Fein’s position on the current situation in the Middle East region”

Some protest!

by Shligigh Mon Aug 28, 2006 20:51

Gerry, please don’t get over-exited.

I am not obsessed about Dixie or anyone else - although I do find it strange that a Sinn Fein spokesperson would use a pseudonym.

Dixie released Councillor Sean McManus’s statement and posted it on Indymedia last Wednesday morning.

The press release doesn’t give the full text of the Sinn Fein letter to Bloomberg.

All I am doing, is asking Dixie, or Councillor McManus and/or Sinn Fein, to publish the full contents of the letter to Bloomberg on Indymedia.

Is this not a simple request?

Why is Sinn Fein afraid of publishing the full text on Indymedia? What have they to hide?

ps I don’t want the contents read out to me over the phone I want the full contents published on Indymedia - its called openness and transparency.

by Gerry Mon Aug 28, 2006 19:17

Siobhan R says: "Well done Shligigh.
You have succeeded in exposing the opportunism and dishonesty of the Shinners."

No siobhan. What he has exposed were his own lies and dishonesty. He obviously felt his own argument was so weak that he had to falsify other peoples positions, had to lie and then refuse to give any evidence to back up his lies.

Which is a pity. If he had to say that he disagreed with the manner of the SF protest, that wold be fair enough. Everyone can have disagreements as to how to protest but to deliberately lie to try to bolster what he obviously felt was his weak case is just wrong.

by Gerry Mon Aug 28, 2006 19:10

Shligigh says: "Are you seriously trying to tell me and every other reader, that Dixie and Sinn Fein and Councillor McManus and his colleagues are not aware that I have called on them to publish the full contents of their letter to Bloomberg. For a person who claims not be a member of Sinn Fein you are spending a lot of time trying to defend them. Are you not anxious to see the full contents of the letter to Bloomberg?"

I dont 'claim' not to be a member of SF. I'm not a member of SF, fact. I was up unitl about 4 years ago as you would know if you actually read my posts.

IYou say that I spend a lot of time defending sf for someone not amember. i still consider myself a Republican/Socialist, but more to the point I joined this thread after I read the lies that you and some others printed here. You stated that SF supported the Bloomberg visit and didnt protest. THEY DID OPPOSE THE VISIT AND THEY DID PROTEST. FACT

What you stated was a lie. NOW WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER LYING IF YOUR ARGUMENT WAS SO STRONG? Surely you dont need to distort other peoples positions to strengthen your own, do you?.

You seem to think people are only allowed to protest in the way that you decide, but hey tough sht, evryone has the right to protest in the manner that they so wish. If you dont like that - tough.

As for not seeing the full contents of the letter, I dont knwo that I havent seen it. All i have is the word of an anonymous poster onan internet site saying that what i sin the media isnt the full content o fthe letter. Whether it is or it isnt, I have no idea just as I have no idea abut any other letters or press releases i read in the media. You or I have no way of knowing that at any time unless we are involved in drawing them up, would we?

But again i have to repeat, if you are really so interested in seeing this letter why dont you USE THE PHONE. I repeat. USE THE PHONE and ask some of them for a copy or send them an e-mail. It really is that simple and the fact that you keep refusing to do so, just confirms even further that you have no interest in the letter at all and just want to have a bout of anti-shinner bashing based on your lies.

I have repeatedly asked you to show me where the sf cllrs refused to diclose this letter (considering they released it to the media and went on the radio about it seems a silly way of trying to hide it) and to whom they refused to show it. You continue to REFUSE to answer that question.

You continue to REFUSE to show us one scrap of evidence to support your LIE that SF supported the Bloomberg visit and did not protest when the opposite is the truth as is clear for anyone to see,whther or not you support sf or not. Why not be a man and back up your claims when repeatedly asked or have the balls to admit you were wrong and take it back?

We know you dont like SF. Thats your perogative. No problem. You dont need to tell blatant lies though just because of that.

As for whther or not SF cllrs in Sligo know whther you (whoever the fuck you are - an anonymous poster on an internet site) has called on them to make thi sletter more public than it already is. I dont know just like you dont know. I woudl be fairly sure that they are not on this or indeed any of the other political forums all too often whatever you may think. But as I said before if you really want to see the letter (and I dont actually believe that you do) then you woudl have phoned them or the SF office and asked them to give you a copy or make it public if it already hasnt. But that woudlnt suit your agenda would it?

As for your Obsession with 'dixie' whoever the are, I'd go someone about that. It cant be too healthy to be so obsessed with someone that you dont even know like that? Again, just like you despite what you might say, I have no idea who dixie is, whether or not they are a sf spokesperson, labour spokesperson or just someone posting here. I mean for all we know you area labour spokesperson. How do we know your not. Take your word for it? Your words not very reliable considering all the deliberate falsehoods you have been printing.

by Siobhan R Mon Aug 28, 2006 17:10

Well done Shligigh.

You have succeeded in exposing the opportunism and dishonesty of the Shinners.

Don’t mind Gerry - he is a Shinner without a doubt, although he is fairly amateurish.

As you point out their spokesperson Dixie was of the traps first thing Wednesday morning posting on the Bloomberg Demo to set out their side of the story

Of course it is unusual for a spokesperson for a political party to use a pseudonym (he was probably wearing his balaclava when he was posting) however old habits are difficult to get rid of.

You might as well accept the fact that you wont hear from Dixie, and Sinn Fein will not publish the full text of their letter to Bloomberg.

Why? Because their opportunism would be exposed for all to see.

All you will get from Sinn Fein is the statement that they and Dixie issued to the Press on Tuesday.

by Shligigh Mon Aug 28, 2006 16:06

Yes, I am publicly calling on Councillor Sean McManus and Sinn Fein to publish in full the text of their letter to Bloomberg.

There is no need for you to get over-exited and call people liars.

I am aware that the posts on Indymedia are constantly read by Sinn Fein and by practically all other left wing/green/antiwar groups.

Sinn Fein regularly post their own material on Indymedia.

Dixie of Sinn Fein posted a statement on this site last Wendesday morning (within 18 hours of the first posting) on behalf of Councillor Sean McManus and Sinn Fein

Are you seriously trying to tell me and every other reader, that Dixie and Sinn Fein and Councillor McManus and his colleagues are not aware that I have called on them to publish the full contents of their letter to Bloomberg.

For a person who claims not be a member of Sinn Fein you are spending a lot of time trying to defend them.

Are you not anxious to see the full contents of the letter to Bloomberg?

Come on Sinn Fein – what about openness and transparency

by Gerry Mon Aug 28, 2006 15:08

Shligigh your a legend.

You are "publicly" calling on Cllr MacManus to release the full text of th eletter which has probably already been rleased to the media in full.

Apart from the fact that I doubt that Cllr mcanus wastes his time reading shte posts on Indymedia from compulsive liars like yourself, if you had wanted to know if there was anything extra in the letter that the media didnt carry, then all you had to do was to oring them Shligih, but you wont, cos you couldnt care less what is in it- you just want to continue your anti-shinner tirade and ignore the fact that you lied over and over on this thread, in particular your claim that SF supporte the Bloomberg visit when in fact they protested against it- FACT and obviously a fact you just cant handle.

So, its easy to "publicly" call on him to do that when you know full well hes hardly likely to see or hear that call, is he now? Asd I have repeatedly said, if you wanted a copy of the letter, all youwould have to do is ring any of the cllrs up or indeed the sf office in Sligo and I'm sure they would be delighted to help you out, even if you are talking out of your arse.

have already asked you on a number of occasions to show me where SF refused to disclose the contents of the letter. You continue to refuse to answer that question and show some proof that they have refused to show the contents of this letter to anyone. You cant produce a shred of evidence to back up that claim because you know it is false and you just havent the balls to admit that can you? Who did they refuse to show the letter to - when did they refuse to show the letter.

Why are you refusing to show the evidence of your claims?

You posted what was a blatant LIE when you said that SF did not protest against Bloombergs visit. That was blatant lie, and you know it. Yet when challenged, you have refused over and over to show any evidence to back up your lies and have refused to withdraw your false statement and be a man and accept that you lied.

Why do you feel the need to continually lie. Are you so ashamed of your own position that you feel the need to lie about other peoples? Doesnt say much for your argument if youhave to stoop so low does it Shligigh?

by Shligigh Mon Aug 28, 2006 13:54

Seeing as that Dixie and Councillor Sean McManus have not disclosed the full contents of the letter to Bloomberg I am now calling publicly on Dixie, Councillor Sean McManus and Sinn Fein to publish the full text of the letter on Indymedia.

There must be openness and transparency in regard to this matter. It is not for me or any individual to phone Sinn Fein and request a copy of the letter. The public have a right to know the full contents of the letter.

If Sinn Fein and Councillor Sean McManus have nothing to hide they would publish the full contents of their letter to Bloomberg.

In their letter did they welcome Mayor Bloomberg to Sligo!!! Some way of protesting!!

Let’s see the full contents of the letter - or is Sinn Fein now exercising its own form of Section 31

by Gerry Mon Aug 28, 2006 02:56

Still afraid to use the phone I see and still obsessed with 'Dixie' whoever he/she is? If you really want to know what is in the letter, if you havent already read it all in the media, is why you just dont ring and askthem forit. I'm sure they would be delighted. I'm beginning to suspect you really dont want to read the letter at all.

Go on Shlighigh, ring them. Dont be a coward and bullshtter all your life.

I have already asked you on a number of occasions to show me where SF refused to disclose the contents of the letter. You continue to refuse to answer that question and show some proof that they have refused to show the contents of this letter to anyone. You cant produce a shred of evidence to back up that claim because you know it is false and you just havent the balls to admit that can you? Who did they refuse to show the letter to - when did they refuse to show the letter.

Why are you refusing to show the evidence of your claims? Just like the split personality of Sligo old boy/Anti charges, you make plenty of bullsht charges but refuse to back them up when challenged.

And let me repeat myself to make it clear

The fact that I have asked you repeatedly to back up your claims and you havent, I take it as an admission that you are wrong. Because if you could , you would have jumped at the chance to do so and show me up and SF up.

Why, what have you to hide?

You are refusing to ask them for it, for some strange reason. Do you not know how to use th ephone?

by Gerry Sun Aug 27, 2006 23:56

First of all let me say isnt it a bit strange how both Sligo old boy and anti-charges both use the phrase 'rats ass'? I wonder why that is? You wouldnt be the same person now would you?

Anti charges/sligo old boy, you 'supposedly' detest service charges but you continue to refuse to give your opinion on the party that introduced them (Labor) and the party that retained refuse charges when the water and sewerage charges were being abolished (Labour). Why is that and why will you not answer the questions i asked you?

All I want to know is what is your opinion of th eLabour party considering they introduced service charges, retained refuse charges, voted for them on SligoBorough Council on numerous occasions over the years and seen one of their current councilors being th ecllr whose vote secured the privatisation of service charges.

All I want to know is what your opinion of that party is? Simple as that. Surely you can answer that or will the Labour press office not allow you to?

As someone that detests the charges so much, did you take part in the anti service charge protest against brendan Howlin when he visited City Hall with Dec;an Bree back in 94/95?

As for sf head office supposedly telling the sf cllrs not to attend the ballymote protest, Iam glad that you acknowledge that it is merely your opinion based on a post by someone on an internet forum (ie in other words, you have evidence to back it up at all). There is a big difference in you 'believeing' it to be true and it being a fact which you presented it as in your first post.

Anti charges/sligooldboy also said: "I have no reason to expect other than that Councillor McManus was telling Mulcahy the truth."

So, if you accept that, do you accept it also when he says he demonstarted agaionst Bloombergs visit at City Hall?

by Anti charges Sun Aug 27, 2006 22:22

Gerry, I do believe that Sinn Fein head office instructed their Sligo councillors not to attend the Ballymote demonstration. I base that belief on the posting from Tim Mulcahy in which he stated that Sinn Fein councillor Chris McManus told him that it was the Sinn Fein councillors desire to be on the protest in Ballymote but that the final decision would be left to Sinn Fein head office.

With regard to the deal between Labour and Fianna Fail on the Council I repeat that I don’t give a rats ass about the pact - what difference does it make to me who is Mayor. Since the water and sewerage charges were abolished and the refuse services privatised the Council doesn’t have service charges anymore.

I suppose the difference between the present FF/Lab pact and the previous FF/SF pact is that the FF/Lab pact is only about the election of mayor’s and committee’s.

The FF/Sinn Fein pact was different in that it was about the election of mayor’s and committee’s and about IMPOSING SERVICE CHARGES.

You ask me my opinion on whether Labour should have a pact with the FF councillors who support the war in Iraq and Afghanistan etc… You’d think we were talking about the United Nations, or the security council… it doesn’t matter if they all have different opinions about Afghanistan or sheep rearing in Timbuktu – the Council in Sligo has no say in such matters. As I said already I don’t gave a rat’s ass about their deal as to who is Mayor.

My gripe is that the Sinn Fein in Sligo demonstrated and picketed against service charges for years (as you point out) and they pledged that if elected they would vote to abolish the service charges in Sligo. When the Sinn Fein councillors were elected they then betrayed their supporters, did a U-turn and entered a pact with Fianna Fail to support service charges in exchange for Councillor Sean McManus becoming Mayor. That type of dirty, underhanded betrayal will forever stick in my memory.

by Gerry Sun Aug 27, 2006 04:36

Anti war said that I asked him “Do you agree with that pact and labour party support for service charges?”

Why did you deliberately misquote me?

What I actually asked you was and I quote

"Whats your view on the current pact between Labour and Fianna Fail on the Sligo Borough and county councils? Whats your view of Labours support for service charges on these councils and in government over the years?"

You still havent answered those questions and for some reasons felt the need to put words into my mouth that I didnt say. Strange that isnt it?

As for service charges, while they are privatised, here in Sligo on the vote of a Labour cllr Jim McGarry, they do still exist. They were introduced by the Labour party and refuse charges retained by teh Labour party so i find it amazin for someone that claims to be 'anti - service charges' to have no opinion on Labours support for service charges while you spout off about SF voting for them on a local council on one occasion.

So please do tell us what your views are on the labour partys support and introduction and retention of service and refuse charges over the years.

And while I know you said you dont give a rats arse about the Labour/FF pact, surely you could tell us whether you view that pact as a good thing or bad thing? I mean youre not suggesting that people like Cawley and Bree shoud have a pact with people like Jude Devins, Jim McGarry and Tom McSharry that supported the war in iraq and Afghanistan and the continued use of Shannon airport by the US Military?

Do you think they should have anything to do with such people?

by Gerry Sun Aug 27, 2006 04:22

Hmmmm interesting how, like sligo old boy, you accuse me of going on about Bree, considering I havent done so. Have mentioned himonce or twice but only in response to specific issues. You and sligo old boy wouldnt be the same people now would ye?

Glad to see you accept that you have that SF Head office didnt actually tell or instrcut their cllrs not to atttend the Ballymote protest aas you falsely alleged. Glad to see you finally admitting you had no evidence toback up your untrue claim. At least unlike Shligigh and some of the others you had the balls oadmit you had no evidence to back up some of the shte they were spouting.

I know you dont give a rat arse as you put it about the FF/Labour pact currently in operation on Sligo Borough Council and County Council to allow Bree be Mayor.

Was the labour party right to align themselves ina pact with FF to get a mayoral chain around Brees neck?

Was Bree right to align himself with Jimmy McGarry and FF to get a Mayoral Chain round his neck?

As for never trusting sf again, I dont beleive by your language that you ever were a shiner anyway as your language sounds more like a Labour hack and their Sligo press releases than anything else tbh.

And finally, if you are seriously pised off about service charges, why will you not say what your opinion is about the Labour party support for service charges. Labour cllrs such as Stephen McDonagh regularly voted for Service Charges. Its not a hard question, just a simple answer will do.

Simple yes or no will do.

Labour introduced Service Charges (Dick Spring was Tanaiste and minister that introduced them), when Bree (and hey you brought his name into it and obviously didnt follow him too closely) was a td in leinster house for 5 years, he supported them.

When Labour minister Howlin abolished water and sewerage charges he had the chance to abolish refuse charges but he didnt. What do you think of that? I ralready told you what I thought of SF voting for refuse charges once here in Sligo. bad as that was, they didnt intriduce them or refuse toabolish them when they had the chance did they?

Were you outside City Hall protesting against Refuse charges when Declan Bree led BrendanHolwin in past the protesters against service charges back in (i think it was ) 94 or 95? Where were all of ye then? I dont remember any of ye being there.

by Anti charges Sun Aug 27, 2006 02:14

Gerry, I am at a loss as to why you keep going on about the Labour Party and Bree. Like sligo old boy, at this stage I don’t give a rats ass about Labour or Sinn Fein. What I am pissed off with are bin charges (although I have to say that in all his years on both councils, pacts or otherwise, Bree was always consistent in always voting against the service charges and I have watched him and all the others closely down the years)

In your new posting you ask “Do you agree with that pact and labour party support for service charges?” I don’t give a rats ass about the pact - what difference does it make to me who is Mayor. And since the water and sewerage charges were abolished and the refuse services privatised the Council doesn’t have service charges anymore.

I would be telling a lie if I didn’t admit that I was really angry when the Sinn Fein councillors did the U-turn and voted for service charges so as to have Councillor Sean McManus elected Mayor. They had always campaigned against the charges. In the elections they pledged to vote against the charges. And then as part of their dirty deal with Fianna Fail to get the Mayoral chain they did a u-turn and betrayed everyone who trusted them. I would never trust them again. (Labour and Bree didn’t do something like that when they made the agreement about the Mayorship)

Finally the only evidence I can point to with regard to Sinn Fein head office instructing their councillors not to attend the protest against Bloomberg in Ballymote is the statement made by Councillor Chris McManus to Tim Mulcahy. (see the earlier posting from Tim Mulcahy)

by Gerry Sun Aug 27, 2006 00:51

In response to supposedly Anti-charges

First of all, you ignored my question about your position about Labour party support for Service charges in Sligoand the Dail as well as the current FF/Labour party pact to get Bree to be Mayor. Why is that? Do you agree with that pact and labour party support for service charges?

Secondly, i already said I didnt agree with SF voting for Service charges that year. Read the posts.

Thirdly, I didnt criticise you for saying that SF head office instructed SF cllrs not to attend the protest at Ballymote. All I asked was for you to provide some evidence to back up your statement. You still havent.

by Johnny Sun Aug 27, 2006 00:21

What is the problem with a New York Mayor - who is well supported by the Irish community in NY attending a ceremoney in Sligo. His views on world events are absolutley immaterial - the US is a friendly country and such its dignatories should be afforded the appropriate level of respect - regardless if they are democrat or republican - they are invited guests and are attending a civil ceremony.

Sinn Féin played this perfectly - and if i dare say unlike the majority of the anti-war fascists they behaved correctly by handing a letter of protest- but at the same time affording the visiting dignatories all the respect they deserve - as representatives of a friendly nation. This is grown up stuff and makes more of an impression than a couple of dozen nuts (who represent themselves not the majority in sligo). The people of sligo would have been embarrassed if all our public representatives failed to show up - it would have been an act of ignorance.

Trying to explain this to this website or the 'lefties' who'd protest the opening of a bag of crisps is no easy task - but then all you get of an ass is a kick...

well done sinn féin - and welcome to the main stream...

by Anti charges Sun Aug 27, 2006 00:05

I note that Gerry criticises me for claiming that Sinn Fein head office instructed the three Sinn Fein councillors not to join the demonstration against Bloomberg in Ballymote.

I made that statement on the basis of the posting from Tim Mulcahy in which he stated that Sinn Fein councillor Chris McManus told him that it was the Sinn Fein councillors desire to be on the protest in Ballymote but that the final decision would be left to Sinn Fein head office.

I have no reason to expect other than that Councillor McManus was telling Mulcahy the truth.

I am pleased to note that Gerry does not question the remainder of what I said ie:-

It is a matter of record that the three Sinn Fein councillors who went to the reception for Bloomberg in Sligo Town Hall were the same three Sinn Fein councillors who performed the U-turn and betrayed their supporters and voted to impose service charges on the people of Sligo.

They voted for services charges in Sligo as part of their deal with Fianna Fail - but it must be said that it was Sinn Fein head office that sanctioned the deal in order to have Cllr Sean McManus appointed Mayor.

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 23:18

Anti Charges said: "It was also Sinn Fein head office that this week instructed the three Sinn Fein councillors not to join in the demonstration against Bloomberg in Ballymote."

You have evidence of this do you, or are you just lying like some of the others here.

Whats your view on the current pact between Labour and Fianna Fail on the Sligo Borough and county councils? Whats your view of Labours support for dservice charges on these councils and in government over the years?

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 23:15

Shligigh said:

"No response yet from Councillor Sean McManus’s spokesperson “Dixie”

Why are Sinn Fein afraid to disclose the full contents of their letter to Bloomberg?"

Did you ring them yet? No, I didnt think so? Can you not use a phone? Once again, please show us all where SF refused to disclose the contents of the letter? You cant because they didnt and you know it. They protested against the visit and outlined clearly their position on the middle east conflict.

You say what the Champion carried isnt the full leter. Howd do you know? Did you write it? i dont know if it is but you are so certain arent you?

Youre a big chicken sht, full of accustaions but nothing to back them up. You made an untrue allegation that SF supported the Bloomberg visit. You know its untrue but you lied anyway. Now you havent to balls to admit it and tell the truth.

Now you have an obsession with dixie and claim hes a SF spokesperson, which I doubt very much.

The fact that I have asked you repeatedly to back up your claims and you havent, I take it aas an admission that you are wrong. Because if you could , you would have jumped at the chance to do so and show me up and SF up.

by Oisin R. Sat Aug 26, 2006 21:23

Sligo Old Boy and Anti charges are very quick to attack Sinn Fein, but not as quick to attack Labour. Labour in Sligo urban council now have a deal with FF and I believe that they would do the same as Sinn fein and vote for bin charges if ordered to by Labour head office

by Shligigh Sat Aug 26, 2006 19:17

No response yet from Councillor Sean McManus’s spokesperson “Dixie”

Why are Sinn Fein afraid to disclose the full contents of their letter to Bloomberg?

by Anti Charges Sat Aug 26, 2006 18:49

I see that the topic of service charges has been introduced.

It is a matter of record that the three Sinn Fein councillors who went to the reception for Bloomberg in Sligo Town Hall were the same three Sinn Fein councillors who performed the U-turn and betrayed their supporters and voted to impose service charges on the people of Sligo.

They voted for services charges in Sligo as part of their deal with Fianna Fail - but it must be said that it was Sinn Fein head office that sanctioned the deal in order to have Cllr Sean McManus appointed Mayor.

It was also Sinn Fein head office that this week instructed the three Sinn Fein councillors not to join in the demonstration against Bloomberg in Ballymote.

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 16:09

Sligo boy,

Just to make the point. Not only did I not slag Declan Bree, as you claim I "Constantly slagged" him, but I made ONE single reference to him.

That was to his support for and taking part in a Mayoral Pact with FF which remains in place on Sligo County Council and Sligo Borugh Council. Thats not slagging him. Thats a fact. That is the current situation. So where you got this idea that I was slagging Bree from, I dont know? Maybe you could tell me?

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 16:03

sligo old boy said: "Gerry,I dont give a rats ass about the Labour party or any particular political party.Why this constant slagging of Declann Bree............As far as i now he has always stood by his socialist beliefs(not mine!).........The issue is Sligo sinn Fein"

The issue isnt Sligo Sinn Fein. The issue is about the two anti war demos in Sligo, the one at City Hall and the one at Ballymote. You introduced a topic about Service charges and Privatisation that had nothing to do with this issue but was also factually incorrect. I would appreciate it if you would acknowledge that what you cliamed is untrue about the waivers and privatisation. If you are so confident of your beliefs, why lie about other peoples position? If you didnt lie and just believed that what you printed was true then thats fair enough, just say so as anyone can make a genuine error.

I didnt start slagging Declan Bree. Like Tim, I have good time for a lot of what Declan stands for, particularly in relation to immigrants and travellers, but merely pointing out to peoplonthis site who are slagging sf like yourself, why you didnt direct comments at Bree and labour also, as Bree supported service charges for five years as a TD in Leinster house when Labour were in power. You are critical of SF having a mayoral pact with FF, a position I would agree with, but no mention or criticism of Brees mayoral pact at the moment with FF.

So,it was you that introduced this topic to a discussion about anti war demos, not me. You are the one that went off topic

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 15:54

Look mate if you were really interested in knowing the full content of the letter, if it isnt already in full in the Champion, as you claim it isnt but which i dont know and I presume you dont know if yuo havent seen the letter itself, as opposed to just having another anti-shinner rant, then it would take you two minutes to pick up the phone and I'm sure they wold be delighted to email it or fax it to you. Its really as simple as that. Why you wont do that is byond me if you are really so interested.

i dont know if any SF spokesperson is reading thsi thread or not, as I'm sure they have plenty of other things to be doing with their time. i dont know just as you dont know if'dixie' is a sf spokesperson or not, but it is also possible that he got that quote from some media outlet. But thats beside the point anyway, if you wantto read it in full, pick up the phone, simple as that buddy. BTW what do you think is in this letter that you are now so interested in? Do you think that there is an oath of loyalty to George Bush and Tony Blair form SF init? Is that what you think?

As for my case being weakened as you say, thats bullsht. It was not me that lied and said that SF did not protest against the visit. They did. thats a FACT, whether you like ot or not. Maybe they didnt protest enough for your liking, but they still protested. Maybe they didnt protest ina manner that you wanted them toprotest,, but they still protested FACT.

Speaking of having things to hide, you still havent shown where SF said they supported Bloombergs Visit as you daid. Why not, have you something ot hide?

You stil havent told us who you think has the sole right t0o decide how and where protests are carried out. Who has the monopoly on these decisions Shligigh? Is it Tim Mulcahy, Labour, SWP who? What are you hiding - why will you not answer?

by Sligo Old Boy.... Sat Aug 26, 2006 15:49

Gerry,I dont give a rats ass about the Labour party or any particular political party.Why this constant slagging of Declann Bree............As far as i now he has always stood by his socialist beliefs(not mine!).........The issue is Sligo sinn Fein

by Shligigh Sat Aug 26, 2006 15:39

Gerry, you are getting excited again and your case is getting weaker every time you post.

Sinn Fein say they believe in openness and transparency. Their spokesperson “Dixie” has already posted extracts from the letter to Bloomberg on this site.

Why the reluctance to disclose the entire contents of the letter?

It’s not for me to run off and phone a Sinn Fein councillor for a copy of the letter. Indeymedia is a public forum and it should be posted here for all to see.

The Sinn Fein spokesperson “Dixie” has already published extracts from the letter. Why is he afraid to disclose the full content of the letter?

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 14:56

BTW Shligigh

Did ye give bloomberg a letter of protest or put your case to him directly or are ye depending on him to listen to Ocean FM or read the Sligo Champion or Indymedia to find out exactly why ye were protesting and what your position was.

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 14:47

I am not defending their 'despicable behaviour' as you describe it because it wasnt despicable. They protested - you didnt like the way they protested - tough sht - Get over it. Are you the only one that has the right to decide how people can and cannot protest? Who do you believe has the right or monopoly on how to protest? Come on,please tell us.

I am not a member of Sinn Fein. I was up until about 4years ago but i am still a Republican/Socialist and still support Sinn Fein.

The main reason I started posting on this thread was when I seen the blatant lies that were being printed. It was a blatant LIE for people to say SF supported Bloombergs visit. Can you show me anywhere where SF supported Bloombergs visit? Of course you cant becaue they didnt supported and actually protested. FACT

As for the Letter in the Sligo Champion, I believed that was the full letter, just as I asume that Tims statement is teh full statement. I dont know 100% if it is ornot as I am not privy to that information from either side. if its not then maybe you shoudl question why the Champion didnt carry it in full.

However, why not ring Sean macManus or Arthur Gibbons and I'm quite sure they will send you on a copy. They are only a phone call away. If oyu really are interested in reading the letter in full if it hasnt already being published infull in the Champion, why not do that. Its as simple as that buddy.

by Shligigh Sat Aug 26, 2006 13:53

Gerry, for someone who claims not to be a member of Sinn Fein you appear to be doing all the running in attempting to defend their despicable behaviour

I am not going to accuse you or anyone of lying I am merely going to state the facts:

(1) I have a copy of the Sligo Champion on front of me and the letter to Bloomberg is not published in full.

(2) The article/statement from the Sinn Fein councillors published in the Sligo Champion with extracts from the said letter is the same statement published by “Dixie” in his thread.

(3) Gerry asks why it is assumed that “Dixie” is a Sinn Fein spokesperson because he quoted part of the letter that was carried in Daily Ireland

(4) Could it be that he also quoted part of the letter that was NOT published in Daily Ireland.

(5) Someone might say that “Dixie” quoted the additional material from the Sligo Champion which was published on Wednesday afternoon. However “Dixie’s” thread was published on Wednesday morning.

(6) In an earlier thread Gerry states with regard to the letter to Bloomberg “If you look at the Sligo Champion, I believe it is there. Hey but why let the truth get in the way?”

(7) Gerry is being economical with the truth. The letter is not published in full in the Sligo Champion. As I pointed out earlier the only item published is the statement/article from Sinn Fein which only provides extracts from the letter to Bloomberg.

I think it is now time for Councillor McManus’s spokesperson “Dixie” to publish the Sinn Fein letter to Bloomberg in full.

Is Sinn Fein afraid to disclose the full contents of the letter?

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 13:40

You mustnt actually be from Sligo or you would know the facts. Yes, the shinners did have apact with FF (just like Declan Bree and the Labourt party have at the moment on both Sligo Borough Council and Sligo Councty Council just so Declan could get the Mayoral Chain on him) and voted for service charges on one occasion. I'd agree fully with you that it was wrong. But you are wrong when you say that the waiver was withdrawn. The waiver was actually increased at that time and more people got the waiver. In fact a large number of people got complete waivers and had to pay nothing.

Now thats not excusing the fact of them voting for them as I have already pointed out, just as Labour had no excuse for voting for them in the past (even though Dick Spring introduced them) but theres no point coming on here and making stuff up just like some of the others have.

As for privatisation, SF opposed it and in actual fact the pact broke down with FF over that very issue. So to try to suggest that SF were responsible for it shows that you either no nothing about the issue you are talking about or else deliberately lying. BTW It was the vote of now Labour Cllr and their current general electioncandidate Jimmy McGarry that resulted in the privatisation of the Refuse service in Sligo.

by Sligo Old Boy... Sat Aug 26, 2006 13:10

I have been reading this thread with interest and am curious to know if these are the same Sinn Fein councillors who signed a pact with Fianna Fail some years ago so that Sean McManus could get his hands on the Mayoral chain. I remember it well because my mother lost her waiver(reduced charge) along with many more on fixed or low incimes in the town.The price however,for the ordinary people of Sligo, were huge increases in refuse charges followed closely by the privatisation of the service.I say this because every other Sinn Fein elected representative in Ireland at the time was making a huge ballyhoo about keeping charges down and opposing the whole concept of privatisation.
It seems that Sligo Sinn fein do their own thing....again!

P.S. It occured to me also that maybe one of these three amigos have a visa application pending for the St.Patricks Day Parade in New York or maybe Gerry Adams is in the runnung to be Grand Marshall....now we cant go upsetting Bloomberg,can we??

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:48

Ex SF said that "The fact is that Sinn Fein is masquerading as a left wing party. The genuine left in Ireland should expose this type of opportunism."

So who in your opinion is the genuine left?

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:42

Buy the Champion, the letter or most of it, is init. Alternatively, why dont you pick up th ephone and ring one of the SF cllrs in Sligo. You'll get their numbers on the SF website and I'm sure they would be delighted to send ya a copy.

Why do you assume Dixie is a SF spokesperson? He/she never said they were or gave any indication that they were. Or is it cos they quoted part of the letter that was carried in Daily Ireland and other newspapers? I dont think quoting a newspaper is being a spokesperson, do you?

BTW You never told us to who, where or when SF refused to disclose the contents of this letter, did you? You wouldnt have been lying now would ya? Nah, you wouldnt do that would ya?

by EX SF Sat Aug 26, 2006 02:50

I have checked the Sligo Champion online but there is no letter from Sinn Fein to Bloomberg on the site.

In an earlier thread M Reilly asked that the contents of the letter be disclosed.

If Gerry has access to the letter or if it was published in the Sligo Champion perhaps someone will publish it on Indymedia.

A Sinn Fein spokesperson on behalf of Councillor Sean McManus, using the pseudonym ‘Dixie’ quoted from the letter in an earlier thread. (Do people not find it odd that a Sinn Fein spokesperson would have to use a pseudonymn - I suppose Dixie sounds more acceptable then P O'Neill )

Can someone from Sligo or someone who has access to the Sligo Champion please tell us if Gerry is telling the truth and if the letter was published in the paper or would Gerry or someone please post a copy of the letter on Indymedia.

by Gerry Sat Aug 26, 2006 00:00

EX SF said: "I see that Sinn Fein are refusing to disclose the contents of their letter to Mr Bloomberg. I know too well what they mean when they talk about openness and transparency.
What have you to hide Sinn Fein ?"

Are you addicted to lying or what? You say that SF are refusing to disclose the contents of their letter. Thats another blatant lie. You cant help yourself can you?

Who asked them to show them the letter and who did they refuse to show the letter to? Please do tell us.

If you look at the Sligo Champion, I believe it is there. Hey but why let the truth get in the way?

by EX SF Fri Aug 25, 2006 22:13

I see that Sinn Fein are refusing to disclose the contents of their letter to Mr Bloomberg. I know too well what they mean when they talk about openness and transparency.

What have you to hide Sinn Fein ?

by reader Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:44

http://www.unison.ie/sligo_champion/stories.php3?ca=45&...14552

Deputy Chief of Mission from the U.S. Embassy in Ireland, Jonathon Benton, who recounted the contribution of the Irish to the U.S., adding that the in Iraq, the modern version of Corcoran’s Fighting 69th famously had one of the toughest jobs there, to protect the Baghdad Airport route, which was often called the most dangerous road in the world. The road thus became known as "Route Irish."He also said he was reminded by the event in Ballymote that Fr. Mychal Judge, a World Trade Centre victim and chaplain to so many of the fallen New York City Firefighters, had roots in Leitrim.

Concluding his speech at the event, he thanked Deputy Perry for "making this all happen."

Route Irish
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/68521

by M Reilly Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:22

Gerry and Sinn Fein want us to believe that the SF councillors protested against Bloomberg’s visit.

Is it not time for SF to disclose the contents of their letter to Bloomberg. We don’t want censorship or selected quotations. Let us see the full contents of the letter.

by M O'C Fri Aug 25, 2006 02:56

Gerry is right to ask why is it that that only the Sinn Fein councillors are being criticised. The Labour Party has not been much better.

What advice or instructions did Labour Head Office give to the party in Sligo and to Cawley and McGarry?

Knowing that McGarry and Cawley & the labour party will soon be canvassing along with John Perry and the blueshirts (to make Enda Kenny Taoiseach), Rabbitte and co would hardly have encouraged them to join in the anti war protest against Bloomberg.

by Gerry Fri Aug 25, 2006 02:26

Shligigh Said: "I feel it necessary to point out to Gerry that no one is lying The fact is that the Sinn Fein councillors did NOT protest against Bloomberg’s visit. They did NOT tell him to go home. They did NOT say he wasn’t welcome.

The Sinn Fein councillors ATTENDED the reception in honour of Bloomberg in Sligo City Hall and while there they slipped him a letter “outlining Sinn Fein's position on the current situation in the Middle East region”.

Gerry response is:- “just because you don’t like the manner of the Sinn Fein protest does not mean they did not protest against his visit.”

I rest my case on that issue."

Not much of a case then my friend.

You are quite wrong Shligigh and must not have followed what actually happened. Some people claimed that SF 'supported' the visit of Bloomberg. They didnt. That was a LIE. Some including you now, said the SF cllrs didnt protest. They did. That was and is a LIE.

They didnt attend the Reception. They went into City Hall and delievered in person a Letter of Protest to Bloomberg. If you want to pretend that that is supporting Bloomberg, fair enough, but then using that logic it would also mean those protesting at Ballymote could also be described as 'attending' that ceremony and supporting Bloomberg. Not very sensible I know but that is the logic of your accusations.

I have been very disappointed that some of the people, in particular Tim, that would stoop to make that statement which he knows himself is untrue. I would hope that he will when he thinks about it properly realise the mistake he made and apologise.

by Shligigh Fri Aug 25, 2006 02:14

I feel it necessary to point out to Gerry that no one is lying The fact is that the Sinn Fein councillors did NOT protest against Bloomberg’s visit. They did NOT tell him to go home. They did NOT say he wasn’t welcome.

The Sinn Fein councillors ATTENDED the reception in honour of Bloomberg in Sligo City Hall and while there they slipped him a letter “outlining Sinn Fein's position on the current situation in the Middle East region”.

Gerry response is:- “just because you don’t like the manner of the Sinn Fein protest does not mean they did not protest against his visit.”

I rest my case on that issue.

As for the Labour Party. They’re no better then Sinn Fein. Like the Shinners, Cllr Veronica Cawley attended the reception for Bloomberg in Sligo City Hall. Her erstwhile colleague the Chairman of the County Council, Jim McGarry, apparently must have gone into hiding. He was probably pissed off because John Perry chose to have the Mayor of Sligo host the reception for Bloomberg rather than the Chairman of the County Council. (Note: Cawley and McGarry were the Labour councillors who voted against Sligo’s Traveller Accommodation Programme last year)

In fairness, Bree and some of the left Labour people did participate in the protest demonstration but I understand that none of the constituency officers took part. It must be said that Mulcahy made a wise decision in getting out of Labour.

And as for the SWP – I don’t know much about them as they dont have any members active in Sligo.

by Gerry Fri Aug 25, 2006 01:57

Well Eoin if you have seen anyone suggest that they have said that, feel free to produce a link and share it with us. I have not heard any shinner say that. Have you?

As for carrying out different types of protests, is there a problem with that Eoin? or is there an acceptable typeof protest to hold and any other type of protest not endorsed by certain people or groups is then considered as actually supporting whatever you are actually protesting against?

So who has the sole monopoly on how protests in Sligo should be held?

Do you believe then that no-one should ever protest in person by delivering a letter of protest? is that your position? No more letters of protest under any circumstances?

by Eoin C. Fri Aug 25, 2006 00:53

So SF would now have people believe that they are adopting a new strategy. No more marching, no more demonstrating, no more picketing, no more sit-in’s, no more vigils etc.
Are we to believe that if they want to protest in future that a few of their representatives will merely “deliver a letter outlining their present position on…. (whatever the issue is)”. How interesting.

by me... - none Fri Aug 25, 2006 00:10

I dont see what all the fuss is about Sinn Fein councillors protested and left the reception. They registered their opposition to the Mayor- not everyone has to fall in line with whatever the SWP tell them to do. I hope Sinn Fein retains its independence of those self appointed guardians of political correctness which group around the SWP etc. As for ex-SFits amazing how many ex-SF members are floating around all of a sudden on the "left" except when pressed they are not known by anyone in Sinn Fein and usually have transmorphed having voted SF once in a local election (and not telling their ma and da) to having been a "member"....

by Gerry Thu Aug 24, 2006 22:53

Shligigh, first of all I am not a member of Sinn Fein. You obviously havent read my posts or you would know that.

Secondly, just because you dont like the maner of the SF protest does not mean they did not protest against his visit. THEY DID. Get over it.

If I didnt like th emanner that the demonstraters in ballymote carried out their protest, would that mean that they did not protest against the visit. Of course it wouldnt - it owuld be complete and absolute nonsense - just like the LIE been suggested that SF didnt protest against Bloomberg when they quite clearly did.

What I would like to know is why some people have taken to LYING about this and also why there has been so much silence about the position of the Labour party on this considering the attempts to deliberately spread false information about the SF protest.

by Shligigh Thu Aug 24, 2006 22:43

Gerry from Sinn Fein now has the audacity to tell us that the three Sinn Fein councillors protested against Bloomberg’s visit!!!

He states “They protested against his visit and handed him a letter of protest explaining their position quite clearly”

Talk about rewriting history.!

The Sinn Fein councillors did NOT protest against Bloomberg’s visit. They did NOT tell him to go home. They did NOT say he wasn’t welcome.

The Sinn Fein councillors ATTENDED the reception in honour of Bloomberg in Sligo City Hall and while there they slipped him a letter “outlining Sinn Fein's position on the current situation in the Middle East region”.

And its also important to let people outside Sligo know that in the weeks leading up to Bloomberg’s visit to Sligo, while others – the anti-war movement, Bree etc, voiced their opinions on the proposed visit in the local media (both print and radio), there was a deafening silence from Sinn Fein. Not one of the Sinn Fein councillors uttered one word on the issue.

by EX SF Thu Aug 24, 2006 18:12

I can appreciate Concerned Citizens annoyance. But I am one of those people who gave a lot of time and energy to Sinn Fein in the belief that it was a genuine republican socialist party that was concerned about people whether they lived in Ireland or Lebanon. I learned the truth the hard way.

I may not be from Sligo or the west but the fact is that Sinn Fein is the same in all parts of the country. I am now like concerned citizen, I am not affiliated to any political party but I am proud to be active in the anti-war movement. Rabitte or Adams – they' re all the same to me.

by Gerry Thu Aug 24, 2006 18:09

I couldnt agree more. Both those that demonstrated in Ballymote and at City Hall were demonstrating against and for the same things. Thats why it baffled me to see the attack being made on the city Hall protestors.

by Concerned Citizen - none Thu Aug 24, 2006 17:53

Its a pity everytime there is a protest about some awful atrocity in the middle east, that any debate that takes place degenerates into a slagging match, with all the political parties fighting eachother instead of working for the good of others.

I was at that protest, we made our point in a dignified manner and there were a good many people at the demo, who were not affiliated to any political party and were there to decry the loss of human life and not to take sides.

So before you shout your mouth out, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!

by Gerry Thu Aug 24, 2006 17:23

EX SF Said:

Sinn Fein has acted disgracefully.

How did they act disgracefully. They did not welcome bloombergs visit as some have falsely claimed in the media. They done the opposite. They protested againt his visit and handed him a letter of protest explaining their position quite clearly. What is disgraceful about that?

SF chose to protest in their way, Tim and the labour crew chose a different way. Fair enough, but they both protested against the visit and to say otherwise is completely dishonest and quite frankly a Lie.

If this wasnt cheap shinner bashing by Tim (which I hope ii wasnt as I have good time fo rthe man) and was a mistake on his behalf then I hope that he would be man enough to admit that.

Tim or no-one else has a monopoly on how people can or are entitled to protest.

On another point though - are people seriously saying that we should not enage directly and merely protest against people from the outside we oppose and whose policies we oppose. Should SF have consistently refused to meet with and speak with Tony Blair or John Major before him? Should Labour withdraw from the European Party of Socialists considering the fact that Tony Blairs Labour party are members of that organisation?

As for not speaking out in the USA that is complete bullsht. SF have consistently made their position clear onisues such as Cuba and against the war clear when they are there, both in meetings and in the media. I think thats more wishful thinking on your behalf.

by Charles B. Thu Aug 24, 2006 15:35

Whilst driving through Ballymote that day (couldn't make it to the demo unfortunately due to work commitments), I observed the following:
6 X Paddy Wagons (with full shuttery type armour for the windows, with guards in boiler suit type uniforms (riot police?), carrying shields back into the back of one of the vans. 1 X Military Police four wheel drive. 8-10 X Garda squad cars, 8-10 Garda Motorcycles, 2 X regular army four wheel drives, and numerous overweight men with 'taches chatting to regular guards at the dozens of barriers around the town (S. branch I assume), as well as dozens of regular garda. And on each of the approach roads to Ballymote, coming from Sligo, there was a garda on each road, one of whom was on a back road in the middle of the country without a car looking a little discommoded. Any who explained the situation to me were pleasant, and appeared a little bored. My problem is that there was that much of a security presence for this gentleman from New York. He's certainly relatively more important than our own 'toytown' mayors, but did the powers that be think that there was going to be a suicide bomer lurking somewhere near Kieltys pub, or maybe a band of jihadis laying low in the mart? Completely over the top in my opinion, and it just shows how we (or at least our d-esteemed leaders) cowtow to the USA whenever the opportunity arises. Just think about how much that cost the taxpayersThe town was full of people getting out for the big man coming to town, and I'd say more than half knew very little about M. Corcoran, and less about Mr. Bloombergs views on the Middle East.
Ah the apathy was more discernable than the smell of cow manure from the marts slatted tanks!
And as for Perrys vox pop on Ocean about this being an opportunity to sell Ireland to the overweight, moneyed Yankees, it was quite funny, considering that most people around the K-Club are rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of all these dumb ass americans (as they see them) coming over to be ripped off with €12 bagettes, and €200 rounds of golf on a glorified pitch and putt course somewhere in a bog etc.

by Tribsman Thu Aug 24, 2006 14:46

Anyone with any knowledge of the labor Party in Sligo would know that Mulcahy and Veronica Cawley come from opposite ends of the Labor movement.
Mulcahy is one of those who resigned from Labor because he couldn’t remain in a party with the likes of ex Blueshirt Jimmy McGarry, Veronica Cawley etc.
It’s clear that he didn’t mention Cawley because he lumped her in with the FF and FG councillors and had no expectation of her showing up for the demo.

by Jonah Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:04

The fact that ex-Labour activist Tim Mulcahy chose to attack Sinn Féin councillors in his statement for handing a letter of protest to Bloomberg and give a free pass to Veronica Cawley of Labour is as revealing as it is hypocritical. Anyone who doesn't believe Mulcahy is using the anti-war movement to try and score points is smoking something very powerful.

As to ex-SF's point. If he or she is an ex-member of Sinn Féin, it is one with a short memory. When Gerry Adams visited Cuba five years ago Sinn Féin representatives in the US, including Adams, were attacked by the likes of Peter King et al for doing so, but defended their right to do so. Sinn Féin representatives in the US are regularly asked by the American media about the party's position on the war on Iraq and they give the party's position on it.

That said, I still believe the Sinn Féin councillors, letter of protest worthy as it was, should have boycotted the meeting.

by EX SF Wed Aug 23, 2006 21:45

It would appear that Jonah and Gerry are missing the point. This isn’t about bashing Sinn Fein, this is about principles and honesty.

Sinn Fein has acted disgracefully.

Here in Ireland they want to be seen as anti-imperialists and protectors of the underdog. However when it comes to proclaiming such policies on front of American politicians and the American media the mask slips.

I have attended meetings in Dublin and Belfast where Sinn Fein speakers have praised Cuba and strongly criticised Bush and the US Government regarding the blockade. But never once has any Sinn Fein representative spoken out on this issue during visits to America. I have learned the hard way that Sinn Fein changes its policies to suit the occasion.

The fact is that Sinn Fein is masquerading as a left wing party. The genuine left in Ireland should expose this type of opportunism.

by Old Dub Wed Aug 23, 2006 20:41

If there’s news of a kneecapping in Achonry at least we’ll know who carried it out!

by Gerry Wed Aug 23, 2006 19:41

Well, who all attended the protest then? I was led to believe that some shinners were there. At least one from Achonry so I believe. If not, fair enough, but it doesnt detract awayf rom SF protesting against Bloombergs visit which they did in the City Hall.

by T.B. Wed Aug 23, 2006 19:38

I can only say that I was taken aback that Gerry from Sinn Fein would say that some SF people were involved in the Ballymote protest.

This is Sligo we are talking about, all of us in the demo know each other (as well as political views and affiliations). I participated in the demonstration. No members of Sinn Fein took part in the protest in Ballymote.

And if you don't believe me ask activists like Declan Bree or Joe Flanagan or Tim Mulcahy.

by Gerry Wed Aug 23, 2006 19:36

Tim

I have good time for you but I think you are wrong here. You or indeed SF (and i'mnot actually a member of SF - check it out Tim)) do not have a monopoly on how to protest against this. SF did their protest by meeting with him and handing over their letter of protest before leaving. You may disagree with the manner of their protest but it does not in any way show support for Bloombergs visit as some have tried to suggest intheir usual anti-shinner bashing. It is simply UNTRUE.

I think the fact that you singled out SF for attack when they actually protested against Bloomberg but failed to criticise the Labour cllrs who actually attended the reception and didnt protest was a mistake.

As I said Tim, I have good time for your politics, while I wouldnt always agree with you, but on this I think either yourself or someone advising you decided to engage ina spot of shinner bashing and missed the overall picture here.

by Tim Mulcahy - Sligo Anti War group Wed Aug 23, 2006 19:09 tim.m at oceanfree dot net

With regards to Gerry of Sinn Fein,I rang Councillors Sean and Chris McManus on Sunday evening last and left messages on their cell phones.Chris returned my call later that evening and informed me that it was their desire to be at the protest with us.He even asked me if it would be OK if he brought his Palestinian flag with him. They were to meet formally as group(with councillor Arthur Gibbons) on Monday afternoon to discuss the matter.He informed me that the final decision,however would be left to ,as he put it"Head office" but he was confident that they would be there.He promised me that he would ring me after their meeting and inform me of their decision.He never did.
I contacted Decan Bree who assured me of 100% support for our Protest, Veronica Cawley refused to be drawn into what she would or would not be doing on the day and I was unable to contact Jim McGarry, Labours third councillor, on either land line or mobile.

You can draw your own conclusions from these facts.

by Gerry Wed Aug 23, 2006 18:09

Its plain to be seen that is just simple shinner bashing by some labour and labour-lite politicians and wannabee politicians.

First of all, SF did not support the Bloomberg visit and did not take part in the Reception for him. They went into the reception and handed him a letter of protest and left once he read it.

Secondly, a Labour cllr Veronica Cawley attended the reception and stayed there, did not protest, yet there has been no criticism from Mulcah and co over this. Why not? Why has there been no attack on the position of the Labour party to this?

Thirdly, Mulcahy and co dont hold the rights to how people protest. SF decided to hold their protest in the way they did, Labour (or at least some labour people) decided to do it differently. Indeed some SF people were involved also in the Ballymote protest .

by RedMike Wed Aug 23, 2006 14:46

It wouldn't have taken much effort from SF Cllrs to boycott the event, just don't turn up to the Town Hall function.

They didn't even bother to attend the anti-war demo, while they seem to be at every anti-war event countrywide.

SF can't have their cake and eat it, they can't be promoting themselves electorally as being an anti-war, anti-establishment, anti-war republican socialist party and at the same time toe in behind the usual gombeens in welcoming the likes of Mayor Bloomberg to Ireland.

There are becoming more and more like FF everyday in their move to the center.

by Jonah Wed Aug 23, 2006 13:21

Sliog is missing the point. This isn't about the conflict in the Middle East, or even Bloomberg's visit. It's about bashing Sinn Féin regardless of the work the party has done on the conflict.

by M Corcoran Wed Aug 23, 2006 13:10

WAR OF WORDS OVER PROTEST

Anti War activists criticise Sinn Fein for attending event hosted by NY Mayor

By Mick Hall

Daily Ireland 23/8/06

Organisers of a peace vigil held close to an unveiling ceremony by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg in Sligo yesterday, have criticised Sinn Féin councillors for failing to take part in the vigil.

Mr Bloomberg unveiled a monument to the Fighting 69th Regiment which was led during the American Civil War by Sligo native Michael Corcoran.

The memorial included some of the original steel beams from the Twin Towers in New York, destroyed on September 11, 2001.

Around 30 members of the Sligo Anti-War Movement and the Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign staged a vigil close to the unveiling at the town park, resulting in a massive Garda presence.

The protesters were demonstrating at comments made by Mr Bloomberg last month, defending Israel’s military attacks on Lebanon and American foreign policy in the Middle East.

Last week, the anti-war campaigners urged local public representatives to boycott a civil reception for Mr Bloomberg, held yesterday in the town.

However, three Sinn Féin councillors attended. One of them, Councillor Sean MacManus, handed Mr Bloomberg a letter containing his party’s position on the Middle East conflict.

Sligo Anti-War Campaign spokesman, Tim Mulcahy, said: “It’s clear that their failure to participate in the demonstration was designed to appease Sinn Féin’s wealthy American backers. “When it comes to a choice between principles and money, principles always seem to lose out.

“It’s not just about knowing in your heart that the slaughter of innocents in the Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine is wrong, it’s about expressing these sentiments in public.”

However, Mr MacManus told Daily Ireland that he had spoken to Mr Bloomberg and expressed his party’s concerns over the regional conflict.

“In light of the ongoing war situation in the Middle East, in particular the serious loss of life and widespread destruction in Lebanon, we decided to avail of the visit to Sligo of Mayor Bloomfield to outline to him Sinn Féin’s views on this issue and our concerns in relation to US involvement in the ongoing conflict in the region, especially in Iraq” Mr MacManus said.“Sinn Fein believes that the root cause of the regional conflict is the ongoing, long-term failure to resolve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and that the Iraq invasion has made the situation worse. “We made our point while looking into his eyes and it registered. “He took the letter, went into a room and read it. I think he will go back to the US with a fair notion of what many people here in Sligo think.”

Labour councillor Declan Bree, who attended yesterday’s vigil, expressed disappointment that Mr Bloomberg had been invited to unveil the monument to General Corcoran. “We in Ireland have a long history of resisting foreign oppression. “In this context we have a clear obligation to stand in solidarity with the people of Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine.” he commented.

by sligo Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:07

The row between SF and the Sligo anti war people has spilled over onto page two of today's Daily Ireland.

SF Mr MacManus says he gave Bloomberg a letter of protest and he read it.

It's kind of like the time that SF protested outside Bush's meeting with Blair/Bertie up north and then went inside to meet him.

Saying that I don't think anti war people should be too critical of SF (there are very strong works fmy Tim MUlcahy in the DI article) because their position on the war nationally has been quite good.

by Dixie Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:46

Sligo Sinn Féin Group Leader, Councillor Sean Mac Manus, has confirmed that he delivered to New York Mayor Michael Bloomfield a letter outlining Sinn Féin's position on the current situation in the Middle East region during Mayor Bloomfield's visit to Sligo on August 22nd.

"In light of the ongoing war situation in the Middle East, in particular the serious loss of life and widespread destruction in Lebanon, we decided to avail of the visit to Sligo of Mayor Bloomfield to outline to him Sinn Féin's views on this issue and our concerns in relation to the involvement of the United States in the ongoing conflict in the region especially in Iraq", said Councillor Mac Manus.

"Sinn Féin believes that the root cause of the conflict in this region is the ongoing long-term failure to resolve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. We also believe the invasion by the United States and Britain of Iraq has deepened the crisis in the Middle-East. On both of these matters the US must begin to adopt a balanced position, an immediate start can be made by announcing a short time frame for their withdrawal from Iraq.

"In relation to the Palestinian/Israeli situation, we believe that there is need for a major change in US foreign policy. This should involve an even-handed approach to resolving the Palestinian/Israeli conflict on the basis of a two state solution. A breakthrough on this front would go a long way to overcoming the understandable hostility towards the United States in the region.

"Sinn Féin's long experience of dealing with the consequences of Britain's occupation of Ireland has convinced us that dialogue involving all sides is the only way to end wars. Such dialogue should commence at once in the Middle East, and the US must assume responsibility for starting this process. To delay will only result in more lives being lost in Iraq, Israel, Palestine and Lebanon", concluded Councillor Mac Manus.

by J. Dunne - Sligo East Ward Labour Party Wed Aug 23, 2006 00:07 laboursligo at eircom dot net Sligo 071-9145490

Sligo’s former Mayor, Councillor Declan Bree, did not attend the unveiling of the Corcoran Statue and did not attend the Reception in Sligo City Hall in Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s honour

Councillor Bree joined the peace demonstrators in Ballymote and said “I could not in conscience participate in any ceremony where Bloomberg was guest of honour.

“Last month following Israel’s attack on Lebanon Mayor Bloomberg made it abundantly clear that he fully supported the Israeli regime and its invasion of Lebanon

“Mayor Bloomberg also commended George Bush and the U.S. Government for its continued support of Israel.

“By any interpretation of international law, the Israeli regime has committed massive war crimes against the defenceless people of Lebanon and Palestine. It did so with the full support and encouragement of the U.S. administration. Over a thousand civilians have been killed, thousands more have been injured and nearly a million men, women and children have been displaced while Lebanon’s infrastructure has been almost totally destroyed.

“It’s called collective punishment - it’s a war crime and a major breach of the Geneva Convention. I don’t want to be associated with people like Mr Bloomberg or anyone else who supports war crimes.

“I know that a lot of people in Sligo are disappointed that Michael Bloomberg was invited to unveil the monument to General Corcoran.

“To my knowledge General Corcoran and his ‘Fighting 69th Infantry Regiment’ of the 1860’s were honourable and were never accused of killing civilians – not to be compared to today 69th Regiment which has been part of the occupying army in Iraq.

“We in Ireland have a long history of resisting foreign oppression. In this context we have a clear obligation to stand in solidarity with the people of Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine.” said Councillor Bree.

by Pat - LP Tue Aug 22, 2006 21:07

Antiwar Groups in Ireland Gear Up for Bloomberg’s Visit

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who is scheduled to visit Ireland tomorrow for the first time since he was elected in 2001, may not be able to escape the criticism of United States foreign policy that American officials often encounter when they travel abroad.

Two organizations are planning a “peace vigil” and demonstration tomorrow at a ceremony in Ballymote, County Sligo, where Mr. Bloomberg will help dedicate a national monument to the Fighting 69th, an Irish-American regiment that was acclaimed for its service to the Union during the Civil War.

The demonstrators are not concerned about that war, but rather the conflicts in Iraq and Lebanon. Tim Mulcahy, who belongs to the Sligo branch of the Irish Anti-War Movement, and is an organizer of the protests, said yesterday in a telephone interview that his group was angered by two of Mr. Bloomberg’s positions.

One is the mayor’s endorsement of Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, the Connecticut Democrat who lost his party’s primary on Aug. 8 — in large part because of his support for the Iraq war — and is running, as an independent, for a fourth term. The second is a statement the mayor made on July 17 — days before Israeli troops entered Lebanon — condemning attacks on Israel by Hamas and Hezbollah.

“I commend President Bush and his cabinet for their continued support of Israel and its right to defend itself,” Mr. Bloomberg said at the time.

Mr. Mulcahy said: “If you’re an antiwar person, you have to condemn violence on both sides. Mayor Bloomberg has not condemned Israel’s excessive attack on Lebanon.”

The Irish Times reported on Saturday that the Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign was also planning to protest the mayor’s visit. Mr. Mulcahy confirmed yesterday the involvement of the pro-Palestinian group, but said the two organizations had separate agendas.

Stu Loeser, the mayor’s press secretary, declined to comment yesterday on the protests. But he said the mayor “was honored to be invited to help commemorate the Fighting 69th and grateful to the people of County Sligo for being so understanding about rescheduling the event.”

The ceremony, first scheduled for July 28, was postponed while the mayor responded to the blackout in western Queens last month and then prepared for the heat wave that blanketed the Northeast earlier this month.

John Perry, a member of the Dáil, Ireland’s lower house of Parliament, who represents County Sligo and helped arrange for the mayor’s visit, said the demonstrators represented fringe groups with minimal local support. “I can tell you there’s no mandate whatever now,” he said in a telephone interview yesterday. “Absolutely zilch.”

Mr. Perry said that the monument — designed by the sculptor Philip Flanagan — is a 7.5-ton column made of limestone and bronze, which honors both the regiment and its most famous officer, Brig. Gen. Michael Corcoran, who died in action in 1863.

Mr. Bloomberg’s visit will not be long. He plans to leave New York tonight and fly back from Ireland tomorrow after the ceremony.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/nyregion/21bloomberg....gKV3w

by Ray Tue Aug 22, 2006 20:45

This is a sickening decision by SF Cllrs!

How can the likes of Mary Lou and Sean Crowe address anti-war and ISPC demos here in Dublin and at the same time the the party supports the visit of this pro-War pro-Bush pro-Israeli, anti-Trade Union politician!

So much for SF solidarity with the Palestinian and Lebanese people and their struggle against Imperialism.

by Starstruck - GD Tue Aug 22, 2006 19:15

Large article on the protest in yesterdays NY Times,good stuff.
Dont know if its online or not though...
Onward!

by EX SF Tue Aug 22, 2006 19:00

“I think people might be overstating the interest such backers would have in what three SF councillors in a small town on the islands north-west would do.” says Jonah

Jonah is obviously not aware that Bloomberg had a bus full of US and New York journalists travelling with him (radio, TV and print media)

Does he really believe that Adams and McGuinness want Sinn Fein councillors appearing on all the main American television stations and media protesting the war in Lebanon and Iraq and demonstrating against Bloomberg.

It seems to me that only people playing politics with this one is Sinn Fein

by Jonah Tue Aug 22, 2006 18:26

As a Sinn Féin member I'm very disappointed at the decision. I think the councillors should have refused to attend any event honouring the Mayor.

I would question the use of the word u-turn as it suggests the councillors indicated they would support the boycott, but that they changed their position and decided to ignore it. Is this what happened?

As for it being about the party's "wealthy American backers" I think people might be overstating the interest such backers would have in what three Sinn Féin councillors in a small town on the island's north-west coast would do. The inference suggests someone playing party politics, though no doubt a former Labour local election candidate would have no reason to do so.

This is not a defence of what the SF councillors did. I disagree strongly with it. Merely, that it should be noted that their decision is being used for party political point-scoring and people can draw their own conclusions from that.

by M. Reilly Tue Aug 22, 2006 17:53

Yet another U-turn by Sinn Fein. Have they no shame?