Dempsey gives away billions of euro more of Ireland's gas

by William Hederman Wed Aug 23, 2006 19:53

Sorry, the related link should be www.shelltosea.com

by William Hederman Wed Aug 23, 2006 20:22

Sorry, it was incorrect of me to say that the announcement had not been reported on "anywhere in the Irish media". Rather, it does not appear to have been picked up by Ireland's newspapers. I now see that the "breaking news" section of at least one newspaper has a small item on it.

by Cllr Keiht Martin Wed Aug 23, 2006 21:50

I am disgusted. But where is the outrage? People sit back and allow this crowd get away with it.

by cool j Wed Aug 23, 2006 22:00

Talk about state controlled media!! - Russia's Putin would be impressed with what passes for it in this country nowadays!!

by cool j Wed Aug 23, 2006 23:00

The FF parlimentary party are holding a think-in on "Irelands future Energy strategy" in Westport within the next week or two with a key-note speech by Shell's best friend Noel Dempsey!! - I kid you not!! - These guys have lost all shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No doubt ShelltoSea will be there to do the job which most of the irish media seem incapable off ie. Informing the public of this governemnts appalling hypocracy on the matter

by qasdqwd Thu Aug 24, 2006 01:47

They applied for the licenses before the deadline and therefore the new/proposed legislations doesn't apply. Legal and above board. I fail to see the big drama.

by barry Thu Aug 24, 2006 02:57

I mean, in all fairness, asdasd by qasdqwd

Is that what passes for acronyms amongst those who know best these days?

Strange how the bigger the robbery, the blander the thieves (and their bagmen)

by Andrew McGrath Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:19

So, Mr. Acronym, the test would be how far one would accept the perversion of law and still see fit to justify it. Quite far, it would seem.

by John Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:21

You're omitting a few things. Like, for instance, that the gas hasn't actually been discovered yet and might not even exist. And that, even if some small discoveries are eventually made, Irish waters are among the most inhospitable in the world for commercial production. All that has happened is that the companies have been given exploration licenses. Its not big news because that happens every day of the week somewhere in the world. It wouldn't be big news if some gold-mining company was given a license to search for gold in the Wicklow mountains. It might be big news if they find gold. The companies will now have to spend vast sums on exploration in these waters with no guarantee that any oil or gas will be found. Between 1965 and 2005 hundreds of exploration wells were drilled in Irish waters at a cost of billions. For this expenditure no commercial oil fields were discovered and just two tiny (by international standards) gas fields. Would you prefer that the Irish taxpayer had financed this exploration? Irish waters have the lowest ratio of commercial discoveries made to exploration wells drilled in the world. Its a high-risk commercial enterprise to drill for oil or gas in Irish waters as the overwhelming probability for any company involved in so doing is that it will be money down the drain. You live in a fantasy world in which Irish waters are teeming with oil and gas fields and all that is required is to scratch the surface of the sea bed for the oil and gas to come gushing out and yield enough money to finance a socialist paradise in Ireland for ever.

by JFH Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:23

Wow! Is our government wakening up to what the rest of us, Padraig Campbell etc, knew for the past thirty years. Minister Dempsey now has awarded Exploration Licences for Slyne Erris Donegal Area and is considering the awarding of further licences as follows: quote “Since then, major technical studies commissioned by my Department have demonstrated the potential for hydrocarbon resources in a number of basins West of Ireland. This result is in line with discoveries along the Atlantic Margin in recent years and clearly justifies a substantial increase in exploration effort. I have now decided that the next licensing round should take place in the Porcupine Basin, a basin which has substantial hydrocarbon potential, especially for gas.”

Perhaps now he might also give attention to building up Western Seaboard support based services as follows: See following comment from the Mayo association Yearbook 2001 which outlines the work needed to supply oil/gas exploration rigs off our coastline which are currently supplied from either Aberdeen or Ayr in Scotland.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/78032?author_name=JFH&c...64402.

The exploration companies would save hundreds of millions of dollars if Irish based operations were available. (Pscheeeee! The Irish people will also gain, but be quiet about this; let him and our government think that they are helping the multi-nationals or we won’t see a brass farthing!). One gets exasperated over the years! I suppose that it would be more beating of our heads against the wall to again implore our government to form our own Exploration Company and bring in the multinationals as equal partners. The benefits would be enormous e.g. 2006 tariffs charged by Gasprom to the EU is €240 per 1000 sq meters of Gas and around €42 to Belarus and their own people. But when the Minister plus government and opposition worry about the €25m cost of wasting taxpayers money to sink an oil/gas well; it makes one wonder who should take the plaudits for Celtic Tiger Ireland! Keep looking on the bright side! Keep the faith! etc.

by pure rubbish Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:31

ahh shure didnt ya know that the leprechauns have pots of oil and gas these days

fs this article is tripe, its EXPLORATION licences --these licences are a dime a dozen in pratically every country

perhaps you would prefer if Ireland went back to subsistant farming methods and readopted the horse and cart

by Socialist Thu Aug 24, 2006 13:14

If Irish people abandoned the philosophy of global capitalism established by the Carlyle group and Haliburton and returned to tradition rural lifestyles and eco friendly farming and localised economic systems then we would contribute to saving the planet and living morally. We could live with ourselves and let the planet live too.

Open your eyes and think about it.

by Shane Thu Aug 24, 2006 16:14

As you regularly comment on Shell to Sea stories no doubt you cannot be quite as ignorant as you let on, otherwise shell wouldn't have given you a job. Regardless of whether or not these are simply exploration licenses they still are giving away any gas or oil which is found. I fail to see your argument. Are you really suggesting that because the gas has not been found yet that the Irish people aren't entitled to anything? Is it not a bit like telling a burgler, 'Sure have a look around the house anyway because you might not find where I've hidden my money and sure if you find it fair play to you, you can keep it.' Further to this if you check around your office you will no doubt find all sorts of information relating to hydrocarbon deposits off the coast of Ireland that have been kept a secret. I know because somebody who was on the rigs told me, or maybe you haven't thought to ask your co-workers who are responsible for this cover up? But I guess it's not in your interests to divulge such information when gas and oli prices are rising all the time.

by Starstruck - GD Thu Aug 24, 2006 19:36

Good report William,anopther shambolic development in our country's grand natural resources giveaway.
Methinks that Mr Dempsey and co were a tad afraid of what the corporate media reaction may have been in the light of the large scale protests against the most recent giveaway in Erris,funny to see how positive he viewed it,maybe he'd been up all night partying hard and was a little high at the time of the press release...
This government has 5 million to spend on a huge pole in Dublin,100 and something million to spend on a bogey compiuter system and voting booths,but couldnt actually hire an exploration company to do the work for them and the Irish people...what a fucking joke.
This must be exposed.

by hedgehog Thu Aug 24, 2006 21:31

"Would you prefer that the Irish taxpayer had financed this exploration?"

Well we are letting shell and co. write off exploration expenses for the last 25 years before they pay a penny in tax. Also we are charging well below normal tax rates if they ever run out of ideas for making up expenses (which I doubt they will). Also, we paid for the original surveys which o'reilly used to choose the places he bought licences for. Isn't that paying for it?

Since we are getting no benefit from it, environmentally speaking, wouldn't we have been better off leaving the gas in the earth as when we extract it, one way or another it will cause us problems down the line with pollution which will need to be tackled and which will likely cost the irish taxpayer money And judging by footage from the recent movie "a crude awakening" the cleanup is not the strong point of oil exploration companies!! There's the potential for a lot of greenhouse gas emissions under the irish sea with no real benefit to irish citizens. These corporations don't care about the environment if they are not forced to. Examine shell's record in the niger delta for further proof of this. Look at what's happening in Rossport right under our noses .What price our environment?

Also, will carbon taxes apply to any gas burned off from these offshore wells and who is liable for this, the irish taxpayer?

As for the horse and cart thing, Great idea. I'm sick of global capitalism fucking everybody over and raping the planet. Being able to buy crap doesn't make you happy. It just enslaves you. Personally if i'm going to be enslaved, I'd rather be enslaved growing tasty GM free organic vegetables for my kids and neighbours. Whats so terrible about being in a position where we don't have to do the bidding of war criminals using our country as a base and where carbon emissions are much lower! (well those horses. they...y'know...a lot) Imagine a place where the air is clean, there is no television and people actually have to depend on and talk to each other. Weird eh? well get used to the idea because in the long run thats probably where we are going . That is if the greed of global corporations doesn't destroy the planet and kill us all first

For those of you who havent seen it, the corporation is now free to watch on google video:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4356796119500...ation

Also the EXCELLENTrobert newmans history of oil
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7374585792978336967

by cool j Thu Aug 24, 2006 23:46

Your levels of ignorance on this matter have just reached new lows. The Corrib field is vast with independent experts putting its value at nearly 200 billion Euro at todays prices. Thats why Shell are so scared of any court case which will revealtthe true value of their part of the Corrib field

PS - As regards the cost of exploration - the cost is now minor given currnet world prices which makes Dempsey's recent announcments all the more grotesque!!!

by cool j Fri Aug 25, 2006 00:27

Irish Exploration licences entitle companies to everything they find under terms which ireland does extremly badly from so your argumemnt is like your name - Simply rubbish!!

by John Fri Aug 25, 2006 01:35

Who feeds you this junk, Mr. Cool J? No wonder you're losing your cool. Its clear all the left-wing hysteria over the Corrib deal is being fuelled by ludicrous claims abouts its value to the Irish economy. In international terms its a tiny gas field. It might supply 60 per cent of Ireland's gas needs for 20 years. Some fields in the North Sea supplied 60 per cent of the UK's gas needs for that length of time. The UK has 15 times the population Iteland has, so you can see how tiny this gas field is in North Sea terms. No one puts the value of the Corrib gas field at 200 billion euros. Estimates by oil industry experts put its value in the range 2 billion to 5 billion euros. Left-wing opponents of the Corrib deal, such as Shell-to-Sea, Sinn Fein and Jerry Cowley put it at around 10 billion to 12 billion euros.The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But, even if we take the higher figures as the correct ones, that's about $188 billion short of your estimate. If you really believe its worth 200 billion euros, may I suggest that you offer to buy it from Shell for 5 billion euros. They'll jump at the opportunity to sell it to you at that price and you'll have an asset worth 195 billion euros more than you paid for it and you'll be one of the richest men in the world.. That should help to cool your obvious anger. Whether its 2 billion or 12 billion, that is of course the value spead over 20 to 30 years production. Annual production from the Corrib field will only be worth 300 million to 500 million euros a year or about 0.2 per cent of Ireland's GDP. That's all, 0.2 per cent. You're all getting worked up over nothing. As for Shane and his theory that there are lots of files lying about my office containing secret information on the location of oil and gas fields in Irish waters, I'd say this is somewhat unlikely given that my work has no connection whatever with the oil business. But, I'll ask the office cleaner to keep a look out just in case and, if she finds any such files, I'll sell them to the highest bidder on ebay.

by Andrew McGrath Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:35

Dealing with the expected party-political cheap shot about "left wing hysteria", may I remind you that the campaign began with perfectly legitimate and proveable concerns that Irish people were being exposed to danger at the hands of Shell. I notice you have not addressed the questions put to you, namely whether you consider it right that Ireland should claim no royalties for oil and gas extracted in Irish waters, whether the Irish taxpayer should pay these companies' expenses for the past 25 years before they start paying their 25% tax, and whether these companies should be entitled to run their operations from outside the country. It is also strange that you consider it acceptable that people should be used as guinea pigs for an untested pipeline, and that a processing plant should be built in close proximity to seven special areas of conservation.

"The truth is probably somewhere in the middle"; "industry experts". Ah yes, John, the truth is always "somewhere in the middle". Who are these industry experts you invoke, might I ask? Can you provide links to their expert opinions? No, I thought not. Because the fact is that all opinions of the quantities of gas and oil in Irish waters are those of the same companies involved in surveying the fields. The Irish government provides no observers and no procedures to verify whether the companies are telling the truth. These companies lie for a living. We're supposed to place credence in their assurances in this respect?

Oh, and by the way, if there isn't any oil or gas in Irish waters, according to your refrain, what is Shell doing here? And why do you feel compelled to justify the vast quantities of taxpayer money directed to make it economical for Shell to be here?

by John Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:20

If you check the previous post, you'll find that mine was in response to the ludicous claim by Cool J that the Corrib field is worth 200 billion Euros. Simply type 'value of Corrib gas field' in google and you'll find hundreds of web pages from different sources giving estimates of the value of this field. I defy you to produce one from a reputable source that gives an estimate at all close to Cool J's 200 million estimate. On the whole left-wing groups, anxious to show how 'exploited' we all are, give much higher estimates for the value of the Corrib field than do oil industry sources. In my previous post I was quite fair and gave both sets without claiming that the oil industry estimates were more accurate. This was because, even if we accept the higher estimates of around 10 billion to 12 billion euros made on the websites of the SWP, Sinn Fein and by Jerry Cowley quoted in the Dail, none of them come within a fraction of the absurd 200 billion euros estimate for the Corrib field that Cool J gave. Nowhere have I claimed that there is no oil or gas in Irish waters. Merely that in over 40 years exploring Irish waters no commercial oil fields have been discovered and only two very small gas fields. That's a fact, whether you like it or not. To the oil industry Irish waters are a very unattractive prospect because of the poor record over the past 40 years in making commercial finds. They don't even begin to compare with the North Sea where hundreds of commercial discoveries have been made. As a result, the amount of exploration in Irish waters is very small in comparison with other areas in the world and would fall to zero if you had your way and tax rates and royalties were imposed at the same level as in countries where there have been hundreds of commercial discoveries (as indeed was the case in the late 80s and early 90s before the exploration terms were relaxed)

by cool j Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:55

You've some cheek trying to rubbish my statements!! given you assertion earlier that Shell have yet to find any gas off Mayo - Why are they so keen to rail-road their dodgy refinary through Rossport and Bellanaboy if that was the case??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The figure i gave was for the entire Corrib field which is vast and other big companies in addition to SHell have been allowed to carve it up and have discovered big reserves of various hydrocarbons!! - As I said earlier SHell's section is worth way over what they are letting on and this is well known by informed sources in the industry(mainly statoil people), who have also said that a signficant quatity of oil has been discovered near to the gas field. As I stated earlier this is the reason why Shell are so scared of any court case which will reveal the full extent of reserves in their part of the Corrib field

Secondly, at Bellanboy Shell have taken out an option on another large junk of the Coillte estate(WHhich by the way still won't reveal what they paid the state for the land - assuming they paid anything for it!!!) which suggests that Shell plan to massively expand operations there once the build the initial refinery.

PS - John you've have by your earlier comments shown that you have no crediblity on the matter which further deepens my suspicions as to your connection's to the Shell PR machine which finds the truth as a wholly dispensible feature of their propoganda