Get a job, wasters

by seedot Tue Oct 24, 2006 02:36

Quite apart from the fact that most work out there is incredibly boring

OK waster, you eat things, you wear things, you have shelter and you have technology. Things that people made. A lot of the work was boring - partly because we are all alienated from our work and partly because it is work - not play. Sometimes it is boring.

But it is getting done. And refusing to do it while still claiming your share of all the produce of that labour does rankle a bit. When we go and work, when we apply our minds and our muscles to the symbols and artifacts of the world around us we remake the world and provide everything we have. Maybe the way we do it is wrong - but you won't win any arguments by being above it and claiming it is boring.

Activism must be sustainable - not a fad for the young.

by Podge Wed Oct 25, 2006 01:52

Yep. And where do you think your dole money comes from? And the money to sustain things like roads, hospitals, law and order - the entire infrastructure of society that some so-called activists are so quick to criticise. Its all paid for by the boring little tax payers who go to their boring little jobs day in and day out and do their boring, repetative little tasks so all the wonderfully hip people who think its so uncool to work can feed of them like the parasites they are and who try to cover up their laziness and lack of self respect by going on about how they think its so awful to be a slave to the system and work to support the evil, imperialistic government and crap like that.
Plenty of activists work. Plenty of activists have families. Some even have both. And yet they still balance that with trying to make the world a better place. You may find them laughable but bear in mind that they in turn find you utterly contemptable as you suck the blood out of decent, hard working people who contribute to society and who are revolted by the fact that you choose to willingly not work and take vital money away from things like education and healthcare. Boy thets something to be proud of!

by Buckbowski Wed Oct 25, 2006 04:05

Waster you do indeed make some valuable points. I agree that it is acceptable that some activists choose to draw the dole so that they can devote all their time to activism. As long as by activism you mean contributing something positive (i.e. dont just criticise but offer positive solutions/alternatives) to the world and not just sitting around bitching about the state of affairs. I am also happy for my tax money to support people who do voluntary work such as working in homeless shelters or samaritans etc. These types of work are something I feel honoured and priveliged to help fund.

On the other hand you need to stop labelling all businesses as "the enemy". There are millions of businesses in the world who make a very positive contribution helping to improve the quality of life for many people. Also as precious contributors have mentioned this is where your income comes from.

Get some balance. To put it simply, those who are making a positive contribution to the world, be it through positive activism, voluntary work, paid employment or by running good companies are worth respecting. People who are just happy to leech of the dole are a waste of space.

by Theodore Kaczynski Wed Oct 25, 2006 06:05

the unabomber manifesto
http://www.thecourier.com/manifest.htm

by Ciaron - Dublin Catholic Worker Wed Oct 25, 2006 08:30

There's a a general confusion between "having a job" and "working".

A lot of jobs aren't work - as in activity that nourishes and sustains the human family eg. weapons production, the military, shipping cannon fodder through Shannon Airport. It would be more productive if all these people took a tip from John and Yoko and stayed home in bed, no matter what their pay packet tells them, it's not work!

A lot of work is not labelled "having a job".........child raring for one. In the U.S., Catholic Workers go out and do the work that's needs to be done and is not getting done....feeding the hungry, visiting the imprisoned, sheltering the homeless etc. We rely on donations (not state funding), dumpster diving (check out freeganism.....), living simply. In Ireland we work part time in jobs that ain't perfect to supplement our peace and justice and other work.

The dole wasn't granted to the poor by the rich. It was a reform won from class struggle and like everything else is under attack and being eroded.

If you are on the dole or in a job that compromises or whatever don't beat yourself up too much. The ethical question at the end of each day is...
...am I taking too much?
am I giving too little?
there's heaps of work to do, even if capitalism is designed to make sure there aren't enough jobs to go around.

If you are getting more than you need or your fair share, divest it, share it around, donate. Someone along the line made the point that the main issue is the distribution of wealth and the CW is one of the few movements who have the line that the rich shuold voluntarily give up their excess and share it around (see Acts of the Apostles)

by rubbish Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:03

It would be more productive if all these people took a tip from John and Yoko and stayed home in bed, no matter what their pay packet tells them, it's not work!

Some dont have a home and need to work to pay the rent and feed and cloth their kids, maybe you would prefer to see those kids in state care
might be more productive if you lost your superior attitude

not everyone has the luxury of surviving off the dole,some people have to make a living, condemning somebody for feeding their kids, obviously you have none!

by gníomhaí Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:52

In general I agree with Waster.

I don't think the point he/she was trying to make is that work is boring, therefore don't work - as some commentaters seem to think. It's just that capitalism has made robots out of us IN MANY WAYS. At the end of the article Waster writes 'unless you like your job and/or you feel you're doing something worthwhile' or words to that effect. Within that sentance it's made clear that NOT all business is bad. Certainly in my case I think it's very important to support the local businesses and especially the small corner shops and small/medium sized industries. It's when they become huge all-powerful multi-national corporations (often effectively monopolies where the problem begins).

I do think that many activists are too much into this Them and Us mentality, which ultimately is problematic. Waster seems to be one of these people.

I applaud decent hard working people if they feel they have no choice/ they love their work or they feel they are contributing to society, so I agree with Waster there. Like him/her, I am officially 'unemployed' though I do a lot of activist work. I agree that activist work shouldn't consist of moaning to everyone about the state of the world, and that positive things should be done -but again this point is made at the end of the article.
Claiming the dole is surely not a waste of taxpayers money if the person feels they are contributing more to society than they could if they were working for, say a Transnational Corporation which sticks around for a number of years in Ireland only to avail of dirt cheap corporation tax and then piss off to Indonesia or elsewhere to save more money.
Of course not everyone has the luxury to be on the dole and do as I'm doing - but many more could were they to streamline their lives, get rid of the superfluous things and live more modestly and simpler.

The world is falling down around us- the old rules don't apply. Get out there and become an activist, is what I say.

by Ciaron Wed Oct 25, 2006 14:17

My my bucko baby, you sound a mite upset.
If you ever want to take these issues up face to face meet you at speakers corner.
Have returned form Alice Springs, where I was called as a witness in the Pine Gap trial , www.pinegap6.org so I'm ready when you are dude. Any time

by Pragmatist Wed Oct 25, 2006 15:20

People need to work so they can be taxed. This tax in turn feeds back into society and can be used to sustain and improve the lives of the people who dwell within it. On the other hand many of the jobs that help people and improve society are unpaid and require volunteers. It would seem to me that the governments should be looking in to these types of job and offering more incentives to get people to do them, e.g. sponsor people who are getting the dole to do them so that they get more money on top of their dole and also have their experience gained recognised and maybe counted towards a vocational qualification or some sort of academic qualification.

Also Ciaron, you don't seem to regard anything to do with the military/equipping the military as work. If I am indeed correct in my interpretation of your comment (and I apologise if I am not) then I must disagree, at least in part with you.
Your own country (presuming you Irish – again apologies if I am incorrect) provides peace keeping troops who were and are involved in peace keeping duties around the world. Indeed Irish troops have been much sought after, partly because of the country’s neutrality, partly because Irish troops have a good reputation for being well trained, professional and even handed. Over the years these people have made a huge difference to many lives as they have provided security (at risk to their own lives on occasion), medical assistance, have helped provide vital necessities (food, water, shelter) and have helped to restore stability and repair/enhance infrastructure to allow people to progress away from hardship and conflict.
When conflicts occur It is often necessary for the military to intervene and secure the area before it is safe to send in civilian aid workers and other vital support workers, who could otherwise face the danger of being kidnapped or killed.
Therefore maintaining a military is a necessary evil and rather than berate them all for the actions of dictators like Bush and Blair and the like, we need to look at the whole picture and consider the many shades of grey.

by Ciaron Wed Oct 25, 2006 16:34

50% of U..S federal taxes goes down the rathole of the Pentagon to pay for past, present and future wars. The only thing that produces is orphans!

The day I flew out of Ireland (fare paid by voluntary fundraising on the basis that there was peace and justice work for me to do in OZ), 1100 U.S. troops flew into Ireland paid for from conscripted taxes.

I'm hoping Bucko will turn up at speakers corner as I have often addressed the issue of the nature of work there. Sometime I have been paid up to $300 to deliver a speech to a docile university class and because I'm paid it's considered "work", I deliver pretty much the same speech at the corner with dickheads like Bucko screaming "get a job" and it's not considered work.

The John and Yoko point was that some jobs are not merely not productive, the are counter-productive....destructive. And it would be more productive if these folks stayed in bed rather than go out killing folks and destroying the ecology.

We operate in an economy based on production for productions sake, not production to meet human need. The finite ecology cannot sustain such an economy that also has the side effect of starving 40,000 children to death daily.

So yes the whole issue of what is work? what is work? needs to be looked at. I gave up my paid day job to go to the aid of freinds on trial in Alice Springs to do peace work. Bucko thinks that I needed an ego boost and this was my motivation. Bucko is gutless because he attacks anonymousl. He is thoughtless because his arguments make no sense. I can assure him my ego is fine, I get on great with my folks (the source of a sense of security and confidence Buck mistakes as ego)...my aging body can do without the jet lag.

This is the first time the Catholioc Worker has ever been accused of being on a "recruitment drive" in Ireland. I remember Redjade being peeved because we never attempted o recruit him in all the time we knew him. So yes Bucko is a pathetic distraction to significant issues raised. There will never be full employment under capitalism it is too socially disruptive. If there aren't jobs there is still plenty of work to do. A lot of us end up being compromised in the jobs we take to keep functioning in this economy. I guess they are paying me to work at a homless shelter because it is cheaper to the state than imprisoning all these good folks they have labeled as nonproductive.

As one singer once put it.....

Your life is more than your work
Your work ismore than your job!

by Carthage Buckley Thu Oct 26, 2006 07:07

Can we please stick to point of the discussion. I agree with much of what the previous contributors have said. You do not need to be paid for it to be called work and a job is not necessarily work.

In his book 'The Prophet' Kahlil Gibran says "work is love made visible". I think that this is the most accurate definiton of work. Your true work lies not in your job description but in the loving message you are trying to spread through your work. Whether you are a peace activist, a Garda, or a janitor your job is merely an opportunity to spread your message of love to your fellow human beings.

We are very fortunate to live in a world where it is possible to create your own work. If you find this difficult to believe try walking around some local markets, looking through the yellow pages and doing a search on the internet to see the array of different ways in which people can earn a living. At south bank markets (Brisbane) recently I had my caricature drawn by a Uruguayan artist who works full time drawing caricatures. He told me that he loves seeing the smile on peoples faces when he is finished. Again this is just another way of spreading love.

If you are unhappy in your job maybe it is time to ask yourself if the job allows you to carry out your work.

If you have yet to discover what your work is you might want to put some serious thought into it. Ask yourself some questions like:

What are my greatest skills/attributes?
What does my ideal world look like?
How do I see the world which I am currently living in?
What are the major differences between my ideal world and my current world view?
How can i use my skils and attributes to help bridge the gap between my ideal world and my current world view?
How do I want to help people?

I also recommend reading "The work we were born to do" by Nick Williams.

Above all remember that all work done with love in your heart and your mind is of equal value. To think that your work is anymore important than anybody elses is ignorant and self-righteous.

by Balar of the Baleful Eye Thu Oct 26, 2006 09:10

Everything else is enjoyment. To that end, people who choose a vocation should get paid less than those who don't have a choice.

Imagine supply-demand laws applying to work - the jobs in most demand would pay less - yipeee!

It'd be comforting to know your surgeon had a keen interest in all the newest research and risks, and wasn't just in it for the money.

On the other hand, hygiene is the reason for our greater longevity in recent centuries, not medicine, so the hospital cleaners who do the shit work, should be compensated appropriately.

As it is, most professions are conspiracies against the laiety, where people do as little as possible for as much as possible - now that is not healthy.

80% of my segment of the population are "unemployed" - like me. This means I have time to do things; constructive things. It even means I've time to work.

Poverty isn't the problem, but perceived respect. People ask you "what do you do?", when they really mean, "What do you get paid for?".

by Ababias Thu Feb 15, 2007 19:39

You have to get up at 6am to sit in your car to face the traffic to get to the job you most likely hate. You have children you dont see or interact with as much as you should. You cant quit your job because you need to pay a mortgage (death vow) for 40 years on an identikit house miles away from your job.
This is not how life should be people ! But most people will say that this sort of existence is "normal".