Estonia, Talinn: Riots - 1 dead, hundreds hurt, 300 arrested. Buildings burn

by Sean Steele - none Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:07

I think the auuthor of this piece seems to have forgotten that when Soviet troop invaded Estonia in 1939 it was a collaborator with fascism as part of the Nazi-Soviet Pact. After the invasion tenso of thousands of people from this tiny stae were deport to Siberia. Amongst the deportees were such "enemies of socialism" as trrade unionists and Estonian language teachers. So much of socialism.

RElation between Estonia (and the otehr Baltic states) could be helped considerably if Russia (as the heir of all things Soviet) actually acknowledged the wrongs it did in Estonia and apologized for an uprovoked act of agression and the killing of several thouand Estonians in Siberian labour camps. Unti that happens, relations between Russians and Estonians will continue to fest.

It is all very well for Russian leader to complain about discrimination, but if the Rus
sian leaders in Estonia don't encourage their communites to learn the language of the country they are living in, then they have to take some responsibility for their situation. Of course, they can say that Estonian is a very difficult language (true) but it wasn't that long ago that Estonians had to learn Russian (also a difficult Language), the language of occupation. think how that must have galled Estonians. Now that the boot is on the other foot for Russian. and they don't seems to like wearing it. Too bad!!!

I nearly choked on my cornflakes when I read that the Russian foreign Minister described Estonia's actions as against "European values". This from the state that has killed 200,000 people in Chechnya.

yours,

by Caobhin Wed May 02, 2007 13:09

The Soviet/Nazi pact took place in 1939 following ongoing collaboration by the west with the Nazis since 1933 which saw the betrayal of Albania, Spain, Czechoslovakia by the west. Many Estonians were enthusiastic and willing collaborators with the Nazis; initiating their own pogroms and providing many volunteers to the SS. And Estonia participated in the Russian Civil War against the Soviets hand in hand with the whites, Freikorps and Allied Expeditionary force.

This is a shameful and disgusting act of grave-robbing underlined by the brutal beating to death of a protestor - the Estonians play a dab hand at oppression themselves.

by - Wed May 02, 2007 13:46

Let those Estonians know we mean biz! Thing is......... The Russians did say sorry. The name at the centre of the whole "Soviet - Baltic state problem" in the mid 20th century was Molotov. If you don't know who he was "put him through our search engine". Before the collapse of the Soviet Union and again after the re-emergence of Russia official apologies were made to the three Baltic states; Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Of course this was long after the governments in exile of those three countries had run out of celebrity status and decent office leases. I don't care to specify which of the three found itself using the backroom of a cafe in Liverpool for a while, it would only be showing off.

But today the 3 states have re-invented themselves thanks to EU membership and have converted their ethnic peculiarities (the most natural blondes in Europe) into a brisk sex-trade with average asking prices which are the envy of other former Soviet republics as well as some other states Bertie Ahern brought into the family. Just to think only five years ago they were a much vaunted cheap alcohol ferry destination for the Finnish but now they have a large long term real estate bubble with people from as far away as Erin buying up acreage with an eye on the 22nd century.

Obviously this sort of progress needs a bit of jingoist pride and a clash with the Russians (be they of Siberia - Moscow or just down the coast in even cheaper booze land Kalingrad) is just what everyone wants. PICK ON SOMEONE YOUR OWN SIZE!

by Sean Steele Wed May 02, 2007 15:40

Looks like the bullies in Europe's largest state (ie Russia) who are so brave as to pick on one of Europe's smallest states (ie Estonia) and tell lies, lies, lies to justify it only have to open indymedia.ie to find that they have plenty of friends in the decadent, ruch and soft west who justify their disguisting behaviour.

PS. Did i forget to mention those 200,000 dead Chechen men, women and children?

PPS. Long live Free Estonia. Russia: Apologise Now for your past crimes against Estonia.

by Sean Steele Wed May 02, 2007 15:48

Spare me the history lesson Caoibhin,

I know all about Soviet history : gulags, slave labout, agressive espansionism, mass expulsion of chechens no less, not to mention mass murder. Adn the fist depoertations of Jews in Estonia (which had little history of anti semitism compared to Russia) were deported to Siberia by the Soveits (ie Russians)

Did you know that when Soviet (is russian) troops goose stepped their way into Estonia (not the other way around, note) they gazed in awe as they shops that were actually full.

So as far as I am concerned Estonia is perfectly entitled to ask for an apology, adn one should be forthcoming!

by Caobhin Wed May 02, 2007 18:35

Where'd you learn history then from the back of a beermat? You should take the history lesson yourself as your whitewashing of the the filthy record of Estonian collaboration with the Nazis does little to display anything beyond a sloganeering biased view of history.

"Did you know that when Soviet (is russian) troops goose stepped their way into Estonia (not the other way around, note) they gazed in awe as they shops that were actually full. - Of course I did - it was one of the seminal moments of WW2, and there's refugees being housed in the Shelbourne hotel.

And don't add to your ignorance by assuming a pro-Stalin/Russian/Putin agenda on the part of anyone tackling your inanities- I am fully aware of the Russian atrocities now and then, Estonia seems to yhave learned something there.

by Jimmy From Ballygomartin Wed May 02, 2007 22:26

You Baltic fascists must have lernt your sums from that anti-Soviet historian Andrew Roberts. He has announced that Joe Stalin murdered 220 million Soviet citizens. More than the total Soviet population in 1930.

by sean steele Thu May 03, 2007 09:37

thaks you for all your comments.

And Caoibhin, I am sure teh 12 year Lennart Meri who was deported in 1941 was a real enemy of socialism and a fascist in his heart. That is why he went on to become the president of an independnet estonia, a true fascist state with open elections, and a free media. CApitalist running dog scum!!!I don't think its the Estonians, however, who have murdered 200,000 Chechens is it? I could be wrong.

By the way who invaded who in 1941?
Who annexed whose territory?
Who deported whose citizens?
How many Russian died in Estonian labour camps?
How many Russian died at teh hands of the Estonian equivelant of the NKVD?
Whose working class was better fed, betted educated and had better social welfare provisions in 1941, Russia's or Estonia's?

And is it really true that when Nazi troops eneter the Soviet Union in 1941, millions of Russians and Ukranians welcomed them? Can it possibly be true? Does this mean that Estonains weren't the only one glad to be rid of Soviet rule? Can it possible be true? Please tell me it isn't true.

PS. Long Live Free Estonioa

by SEAN STEELE Thu May 03, 2007 09:38

Please forgive the typo.

That should have read

LONG LIVE FREE ESTONIA!!!

by grandchild. Fri May 04, 2007 11:03

Hi. I live In Estonia and i am Estonian by nationality. My parents and all my family is from Estonia as long as I know. I do not hate Russians I just despise their ignorance on matters like Bronze Soldier. Have they forgottent that mobilization into nazee army was done mainly at gunpoint. I've heard stories about that from my late grandfather who was mobilized by Germans and who was forced to fight at the Emajõe battle which was one of the meanest places to be next to Sinimäed. Anyway, what i wanted to tell you was that later he had to spend five years in Siberia at the cole mines where he almost lost his life but luckily he managed to outlive those horroble experiences - hunger, cold, accidents in mine. That prisonment was due to his past in German army and the fact, that his father had had quite nice little farm. It just wasn't into communist spirit where everyone just had to be equal and nice little working bees for the mother Russia and father Stalin.
I do not like neither Russian nor German history yet I still honor those people who suffered by both sides. Of course there were Estonians who tipped off Russians who to send to Siberia... My grandfather almost ended in Siberia that way because someone tipped Russians that he had been in German army but he managed to hide himself in the woods for a while until he had to come out and was sent to Siberia after all...
Now a little about that Bronze Soldier - there are some stories that those six soviet soldiers buried near that monument were shot by their own "comrades" because they were captured robbing houses they were supposed to guard from looting the first place in Tallinn. If thats true then Soviet Russia has always praised rather criminals than heroes ie Stalin and his buddies.
Go figure...

by Caobhin Fri May 04, 2007 12:57

Stalin was a physcopathic murderer who died in 1953 and was condemned in 1956 so neither Soviet Russia nor the other 15 or so Soviet states in the USSR were always praising Stalin - learn some basic facts and stop spouting shitty little unverifiable anecdotes. You seem to be regret the fact that the Red Army defeated Hitler and gloss over Estonia's filthy record of collaboration in WW2 .

Whitewashing the past does not justify modern anti-Russian racism in Estonia. Europe has had enough of nationalism - the current Estonian govt appears to want to turn the clock back, carry on and you'll find Estonia is indeed not "alone" it wil be a friend of, and safe haven for, every right-wing throwback in Europe

by A girl from Estonia Sun Nov 25, 2007 15:41

I live in Estonia, i'm 16 years old, but i'm sure i'm more aware what i'm talking about than some other persons here . The police in Estonia didn't beat anyone to death ! The man was killed by other russians, huligans, who just wanted money . I have to say - i don't feel seccure and safe in this country, because i know, what the russians are capable and if Europe won't protect us, i'm not sure if i even want to rise my own children here - i'm afraid of the russian politics . It is simply unbeliveable ! :((