Sabra and Shatila Forgotten.

by PaddyK Tue Sep 18, 2007 18:01

This is the only photo I was unable to unearth of the 2007 Commemeration of the massacre in Lebanon. Am I bad at searching or is there just nothing posted about it ?

http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=6389

by Pollytix Tue Sep 18, 2007 22:38

http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/c.aspx?VP=XSpecific...ZNVEH

by Sceptic Wed Sep 19, 2007 21:34

This is severe anti Israeli bias and a totally baseless guilt by association for the US. Neither Israel nor the US colluded in or carried out the massacres. There would have been nothing whatever to gain for them besides it being totally against their ethical principles. Israel had a full public inquiry into these incidents. The IDF may have been negligent but they did not knowingly collude in these massacres. The US was not in Beirut at all at the time – that came later. It’s so easy to throw mud about.

by Jim O'Sullivan Thu Sep 20, 2007 09:00

" Israel had a full public inquiry into these incidents. The IDF may have been negligent but they did not knowingly collude in these massacres."

It is profoundly disturbing that anyone, even Sceptic, could at this point in time pretend that Israel where somehow blameless regarding the massacres that occurred. The silly suggestion that Israel's innocence is confirmed by their own inquiry is so rediculous as to suggest that Sceptic is really a seven year old meddling with a keyboard.
The inquiry referred to was of course a whitewash which attempted to save face. Even that charade was unable to let Sharon off the hook and found that he was personally responsible. Sharon was the Israeli Defence Minister, a member of the Israeli government. The notion that he acted alone is to suggest that Sharon was some kind of deranged loner. That is rediculous. The slaughter was planned and well thought out. Israel thought that by arming and getting the christian militiamen to do the dirty work, the world would fail to see what was the truth.

by Nodin Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:07

"The IDF may have been negligent but they did not knowingly collude in these massacres."

They let them in and let them run rampant. That there is knowing collusion. The Kahan commission recommended that Sharon never hold office again, which - in a country that is very reluctant to take its military to task - was a remarkable statement. It was unfortunate that it had no official power to enforce decisions or judgements made.
Co-operation between the IDF/Israel and the Christian flangists is well known, documented, and beyond dispute.

by ismael Thu Sep 20, 2007 17:34 ismaelchahine at yahoo dot com

Would Sabran Chatila massacres have been the only atrocities recorded during the 1975 Lebanese Palestinian war I as a Lebanese I would have totally agreed with the concept of remembering massacres and never letting the perpetrators get away with crimes against Humanity.But as it stands that many villages in the North and East side of the Bekaa were savagly attacked first by the Saiqa The Syrian backed Palestinians on defenceless unarmed Chritian villagers.topped by the Damour village massacre where 900 innocent civilians ( non combattants) died slaughtered at the hands of Saiqa and Fatah.When the Nobel Prize nominee Yasser Arafat did not answer the calls of Damour Clergy man Father Labaki for clemency.I kindly ask you to research the Lebanese war humanitarian disaster that went on for 15 years before passing on quick judgements on this party or the other.Also for the record that only Palestinian fighters were part of the deal to leave Lebanon safely , the foreign fighters of the PLO were left behind in the Camps ...
Yemenis,Somalis,Libyans were among the dead in Sabra and Chatila.I reckon that's what the Israelis wanted to find and their worst choice was to pick on the South Lebanese Army to do the dirty work ( Not the Phalangists as they were no longer existant as an armed militia at that time).I am saying the wrong choice because there might have been militiamen from the SLA who might have their sister raped or their parents killed in DAMOUR.
As the Lebanese have forgiven and forgotten the Massacre of Damour I invite those who wish for the Palestinians to live with Pride in their homeland to forgive and forget.

by PaddyK Thu Sep 20, 2007 22:11

I think you should check your facts, Ismael.

The Phalangist did the killing in the camps on the 16,17 september 1982 under Israeli observation and assistance. Then in the following days many where taken away and tortured , killed, disappeared by Israeli regulars and Shin Beit and Lebanese collaborators militias. The death toll in all is not known, possibly 3500.

The Road to Damour ran through Karantina, a thousand killed.

In Damour about 300 were killed. Not 900.

I dont know what else you have wrong but I seriously doubt if the Lebanese have forgotten Damour. I couldnt expect anybody to forgive and forget a massacre, specifically when the perpetrators have not been brought to justice and in fact protected and exalted. Moreso in Ariel Sharon's case who after orchestrating the invasion of Lebanon and the push to Beiruit against international agreements oversaw the Sabra Shatila massacre, He eventually went on to instigate a military surge to the Al aksa mosque which started the Second Intafada which in turn gave him the opportunity to smash what little of Palestinian society existed then. AS Prime Minister he went on to champion the Unilateral solution to the conflict in Israel / Palestine with the apartheid wall and the Gaza withdrawal and siege.

Forgive and forget ? Thats in the hands of the Palestinians but I spectacularly doubt it.

Nobody wants to know what happened, as last Sundays prime Newspaper in Ireland featured not a single line that I could see about the events 25 years ago. The news was devoid of reportage of the commemoration in Lebanon and not a single documentary did I see on these historical events. As you said, all Massacres are an evil that should stir us to act and seek the truth. But that isn't happening in certain cases where it doesnt fit the political landscape of today. The Palestinian issue is too hot to handle for the establishment media outlets.
The 911 massacre now that can be commemorated in the Media safely, but not Sabra and Shatila. Better left forgotten.

by Noel Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:00

I remember all the threads on Indymedia this year commemorating the 25th anniversary of the Hama massacre.
Oh wait, my mistake.....

by PaddyK Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:49

Hard to know how to keep some people happy, Noel.

I thought you'd be delighted at the fact that Syrian dictators had managed to destroy a fledgling Islamic Fundamentalist insurgency in Hama. Lord knows where we would be now if the Syrian regime hadnt taken the initiative to quell the bloodlust of the Islamic Brothers in their throatcutting and headchopping frenzy.It's the type of right-minded massacre that supporters of America and Israel get all warm and fuzzy about nowadays.But of course people of conscience will recognise a heinous act of savagery when they see one whether in Hama or Palestine or Lebanon. Perpetrated with Impunity by a totalitarian regime, members of which are still revered by some people. Massacre perpetrators that continued to hold places of high power after their atrocious deeds.Yes, the similarities between Hama and Sabra Shatila are evident.
But you can take comfort in the fact that Syria today is a shunned cruel dictatorship with little support from us Europeans and the Great American Democracy. It is struggling to maintain it's position of relevance under continual threat of bombardment or invasion from the democratic agents of the West.
On the other hand there is little comfort for the Palestinians who are still being massacred in continuous waves of ethnic cleansing at the hands of the brutal regime that perpetrated the Sabra Shatila massacre.The very same regime that right now has the full support and encouragement of the Great American Democracy. The weapons, the excuses, the diplomatic solidarity all provided by the most powerful country in the world. A violent and cruel regime that is foisted on the world as the most democratic country in the middle East with the most moral army.

What's the differnce between Syria and Israel? You like to drag the Jewish people into it immediately, but to honest observers it's Western support that makes the difference.

by Aaron Sat Feb 02, 2008 23:11

Ismael, if we are to remember Damour, let us also remember Karantina, Black Saturday,the bus massacre (before Damour) and the murder of a thousand Palestinians at Tell al Zataar (after Damour).