Irish entrepreneurs supplied Iran with weapons in contravention of international laws.

by lazy Sun May 23, 2010 13:21

Maybe an editor can tidy-up. Mac aviation is based in Drumcliff ,
near where Yeats is supposedly buried :

http://www.goireland.com/sligo/m-a-c-aviation-irl-ltd-a...9.htm

by Bazooka Joe Sun May 23, 2010 17:39

"Fachtna Murphy, the garda commissioner, ordered an operation to identify and confiscate the McGuinns’ assets last year following a request from the United States."

This story is a prime example of the way our police are directed and controlled by the US. If they sold the same equipment to Israel, Egypt or Malawi it would be fine.

by non-voter Sun May 23, 2010 18:12

The London Times suggests that the McGuins' activities were in connection with what the paper refered to as Iran’s “nuclear and ballistic missile programme” . Iran ,as is well known, has a nuclear program ;it also has a ballistic missile program . The Times and other anti-Iranian media outlets regularly conflate these two programs to give the Impression that there is a threat to the “free-world” coming from an Iranian nuclear-armed ballistic missile program .They then use that threat to demand that Iran must face further and tougher sanctions .

International Civil Aviation Organization, reported in 2005 that U.S. sanctions ,which had prevented Iran from acquiring parts for its civilian aircraft , had endangered the safety of civil aviation in Iran . There can be little doubt that existing sanctions have increased the frequency of crashes involving Iranian civilian aircraft ; the Times article is part of a propaganda campaign which ,if successful, will lead to many more preventable crashes and deaths .

by pat c Mon May 24, 2010 15:01

Opposing the barbaric activities of the Iranian dictatorship does not mean that you have to support sanctions. Sanctions primarily affect the ordinary Iranian people.

I want to see a nuclear weapon free Middle East as part of a nuclear Weapon Free World but the reality is that Israel is the only nuclear armed state in the Middle East. Where are the calls for Israel to disarm? Where are the sanctions against Israel?

by lazy Mon May 24, 2010 21:30

which appears to be a story of personal enrichment against the violent
put-down of the Green Revolution:

The question is quite simple ; Did they supply hanging ropes too ?

by non-voter Tue May 25, 2010 12:44

It's hard to work out why there was a media black-out up until last week, isn't it. .Such black-outs can last last a lot longer however.......

A book published today documents for the first time how Israel negotiated the sale of nuclear weapons to the South African apartheid regime some thirty years ago. The publication of “The Unspoken Alliance: Israel’s Secret Relationship with apartheid South Africa,” by Sasha Polakow-Suransky, senior editor at the US Foreign Affairs magazine has understandably infuriated supporters of the racist zionist regime . The book features pictures of the signatures of Shimon Peres and P W Botha of South Africa on a top-secret military agreement drawn up in 1975 . (see below) Peres -Israel’s defence minister at the time and now its president - offered to sell South Africa the nuclear missiles “in three sizes”.

According to Monday’s Guardian , documents seized by Iranian students from the US embassy in Tehran after the 1979 revolution “revealed the Shah expressed an interest to Israel in developing nuclear arms. But the South African documents offer confirmation Israel was in a position to arm Jericho missiles with nuclear warheads.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-sout...apons

by non-voter Tue May 25, 2010 16:49

I’ve been trying to work out what Lazy means when he /she says that the issue at hand …..
“appears to be a story of personal enrichment against the violent put-down of the Green Revolution”

Lazy is most probably referring to the CIA-backed coup attempt staged by supporters of Mir-Hossein Mousavi Khamenehi , the unsuccessful candidate in last year’s Iranian election, but the Times Online article linked to makes no mention of any colour-coded Green Revolution.

One minute Lazy is conjuring up some sort of a non-existent link to a non-existent revolution, the next minute he/she is being unnecessarily over- cautious about a trivial matter. Yeats is “supposedly buried” at Drumcliff . Has the location of Yeats' final resting place ever been a matter of serious contention Lazy?

The poet’s mortal remains were buried in Duncliff churchyard in 1948 “in the presence of a large number of local people and dignitaries which included the Minister for External Affairs, Seán MacBride, who represented the Government. “ wiki.

by Left voter Tue May 25, 2010 17:59

Non-voter is not supplying facts here. Amnesty were not at all impressed by the Iranian elections or the repression which followed.

The presidential election on 12 June 2009 heralded sweeping repression and the eruption of
mass protests on a scale not seen since the revolution that established the Islamic Republic
of Iran in 1979. Long-standing patterns of human rights violations, including severe
restrictions on the rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly, intensified
during the protests, and have continued since, leading to the most severe period of
repression since the end of the revolutionary period which culminated in the “prison
massacre” of 19881. As a result, the many Iranians who dispute the outcome of the election
are living with a heightened fear of arbitrary arrest and detention, torture, unfair trial and
even execution.

In common with previous elections, especially in recent years, the months preceding the vote
saw increased repression, particularly against members of Iran’s religious and ethnic
minorities, students, trade unionists and women’s rights activists.

When President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was declared the winner within hours of the polls
closing, the disbelief of many quickly turned into outrage, which burst onto the streets. Two
of the four candidates were members of ethnic minorities and the fact that, according to
official results, they did poorly in their home regions was seen by many in Iran as evidence of
electoral fraud. The three defeated candidates themselves alleged widespread fraud.

Doesnt look like a fair election to me. Since then thousands have been arrested. Prisoners have been torturted and raped. Some have been convicted and executed on the basis of confessions which were tortured out of them.

It was no CIA coup, it was people rising up against a dictatorship whch had rigged the vote. There have been no reports of pro US slogans. The opposition also oppose the US. I dont think much of the candidates though, its the ordinary people who matter. .

Read the amnesty Report.

by non-voter Wed May 26, 2010 17:23 thackeraddy at gmail dot com

Firstly this is what I wrote about last year’s Iranian elections that left voter is getting all fired up about..

“Lazy is most probably referring to the CIA-backed coup attempt staged by supporters of Mir-Hossein Mousavi Khamenehi , the unsuccessful candidate in last year’s Iranian election. “

Left voter is claiming that what I wrote in answer to Lazy is a lie . Not incorrect ,not a mistake ,not unproven or anything like that ,but a lie . Such unsubstantiated, inflammatory language should be avoided in my opinion . A lot of people on the left said that there was heavy CIA involvement in the events of last year . The CIA hardly denied it themselves.

In the original article Lazy complains about Irish entrepreneurs flouting international laws without specifying which laws ,but he could only be referring to the sanctions imposed through the UN on Iran at the behest of the United States, Britain and the racist zionist state ,Israel . These sanctions include a ban on selling aircraft and repair parts to Iranian aviation companies . Lazy is in other words a supporter of sanctions against Iran.

Pat C opposes sanctions on Iran he says ,while between them Pat and a person calling himself “left voter” make the case against what they call the barbaric Iranian dictatorship. Pat C writes about the “rape and torture” of Iranian prisoners after last years election some of whom he claims were executed “on the basis of confessions which were tortured out of them.” Pat C is a leading member of the Hands Off the People of Iran – a group which formally takes the position that sanctions are an act of war .So ,unlike Lazy , Pat says “No to sanctions” and asks where are the calls for Israel to disarm, and where are the sanctions against Israel .

Everybody should know - and Pat C certainly does know - that there have been many calls for Israel to disarm and for sanctions to be imposed on Israel ever since the racist state stole the land of Palestine from its people. The left in Ireland frequently calls for and actively campaigns for a boycott of Israeli goods . Lazy would surely be entitled to ask why the left calls for sanctions against Israel but not against Iran .But he seems reluctant to do so.

Tally so far : Lazy obviously supports sanctions on Iran , Pat says he opposes them . Left voter's position isn't clear but he seems to be supporting Lazy . Could we have some clarification on that left voter. Are you supporting Pat or Lazy on the question of sanctions ?

by lazy Wed May 26, 2010 19:31

I support sanctions against those who stole an election, initiated
show-trials, raped, hung and brutalised the opposition and are now
targetting academia.

DAMN RIGHT I DO.

less of the crap of and deal with the issues, Ireland has raised up
people who illegally profit from supporting rogue regimes whose
abuse of rights is notorious (i.e Chavez's pals)

This tale has nothing to do with Israel, it is to do with Irishmen
supporting murder, fear and violence to personally enrich themselves.

I hope they rot in jail.

by lazy Wed May 26, 2010 19:36

I hope they point out where they hid the other (estimated) 93 million in whatever Iranian
bank-accounts they have utilised to put the *bacon* on the table.

There are Irish heroes and there are Irish malefactors, these men
are neither - they are utilitarian in their desire to make money.

by non-voter Thu May 27, 2010 13:09

Saying that the selling of aircraft technology to Iran has nothing to do with Israel doesn’t stand up to serious scrutiny . Lazy seems to know what motivates the McGuinns , and he could of course be correct in saying that they just want to make money , but actually there is nothing in the Times article to support Lazy's claim that the father and son are only interested in "the bacon " . It could be that they support Iran’s right to arm itself against an attack from either America or the Zionist racist state of Israel .

In the run-up to the last American elections, Hilary Clinton who is the current US Secretary of State , threatened to obliterate Iran. The Zionist racist state,which is the only nuclear-armed power in the Middle East, regularly issues nuclear-tipped threats against Iran . Surely Iran has a right to defend itself from attack. The international sanctions that Lazy supports against Iran – which hasn’t invaded or threatened to invade another country for hundreds of years – would in my opinion be better applied to the real rogue-states - racist Israel and the US which finances and sponsors it .

by pat c Thu May 27, 2010 17:25

In a hurry right now cant write much but I think it would be naive to presume that the CIA plays no role in Iran. I just do not believe that they had anything to do with the masses coming on to the streets. The CIA certainly back terrorist actions against the Iranian government. They train and arm terrorists in Baluchistan who pose as a National Liberation movement. These guys specialise in beheading hostages and attemptiing to stir up sectarian strife by killing Shias. (Just to clarify I do not regard the Kurdish NJAK as terrorists.)

But getting back to sanctions, I think Yassamine Mather says what needs to said here:

" For the last few months, every day - and at times more than once a day - media presentation of world news has been dominated by US attempts to impose sanctions on iran. Sometimes it is the visit of a foreign head of state to Washington that is the occasion for the latest call; at other times it is Hillary Clinton’s world tour, or a phone call from Barack Obama to a Chinese leader.

As we in Hands Off the People of iran have stated time and again, the threat has clearly little to do with nuclear issues. Spies and physicists are unanimous that iran is years away from achieving nuclear weapons capability. ‘Irresponsible’ countries - some with direct and clear connections to terrorist organisations, such as Pakistan, or with dangerous, trigger-happy ‘security’ forces, such as Israel - not only possess nuclear weapons, but refuse to sign up to the non-proliferation treaty, yet the US and its allies have no concern about the nuclear danger they present."

Full text at. http://www.hopi-ireland.org/

by lazy Thu May 27, 2010 19:45

are you saying that two Irish Citizens squirreled 97 million in
ill-gotten gains from the rogue Ahmadinejad regime out of
nobility and/or political concern for the middle-east ?

*** There are legitimate (but possibly non-profit ways of doing this)***

Surely you don't expect people to swallow that dribble ?

There are *many* sane methods of desiring protest, of highlighting
inequalities BUT that is a stretch!!!

Who did the arms deals profit?

Where is the 93 million ? (it is alleged by the ST that its in secret
accounts!! ...... In Iran .)

Did the boyos donate to Irish Political Parties ?

Do they know that academics are being harassed and abused ?

Did they support the show-trials, hangings and post-election brutalism ?

Do they give a sh*t how they put their food on the table ?

by non-voter Fri May 28, 2010 10:51

That's all your own speculation Lazy . There's nothing in the Sunday Times article you linked to that can answer any of the questions you ask about the McGuinns .

Where do they keep the alleged 93 million fortune they have amassed ? Many have speculated that the shadowy McGuinn Sr and his Humphry-Bogart- lookalike son have converted the blood money into gold bullion ingots and buried their treasure on an alleged island which is surrounded by sharks and possibly alligators like the one pictured below. Isn't that the way they do things at the Sunday Times , Lazy? Remember the weapons of mass destruction fabrication they put out before the invasion of Iraq .

by V for vendetta Fri May 28, 2010 12:14

"Ireland has raised up
people who illegally profit from supporting rogue regimes whose
abuse of rights is notorious"

Heh....yes, at least we agree on that one

corrupt irish politician clearly colluding with rogue regime

by V for vendetta Fri May 28, 2010 12:25

"I support sanctions against those who stole an election,"

GWBush anyone??

"initiated show-trials, "

guantanamo victims / cuban 5 / jeff leurs etc etc etc anyone. ( Hell, even saddam hussein! )
As worrying side issues, Look at the death row ratios of black to white., Look at the profits from prisons to private corporations and the number incarcerated in US. You might also like to research the thousands of people who are in prison in Israel, and maybe the fate of mordechai vanunu.
the ones that escape scott free are interesting too. see this fucker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posada_Carriles
an ACTUAL terrorist. so much for the "war on terror" eh?

"raped, hung and brutalised the opposition "

one word.... abu ghraib. er..two words, sorry

"and are now
targetting academia."

read about the fates of any Iranian nuclear physicists recently? now THATS what I would call "targetting academia"!! ( suspected mossad / cia jobs )

so, in light of all that, I presume you are in favour of sanctions on Israel and the US?? glad to have you onboard. if that is not enough to convince you, try this:

http://www.flagrancy.net/timeline.html

by lazy Sat May 29, 2010 18:39

*two wrongs don't make a right*

The men have supported through secret bank accounts and other niceties ,
Ahmadinejad's post-electoral destruction of the Iranian opposition.

if they were in 1916 Ireland they would have tied the green revolutionaries to the chair ,
in order that the the firing squad got a good *clean shot*.

They are scum- they should point out where the other pirated 93
million of their blood money is.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/art...1.ece

have you seriously not developed beyond simplistic thinking on (((i))) ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_enemy_of_my_enemy_is_m...riend

by Philosopher. Sat May 29, 2010 20:06

Everything that has ever been made in any manufacturing company has ended up in weapons.

by lazy Sat May 29, 2010 21:36

Profit before people.

by non-voter Sun May 30, 2010 12:08

Thanks for the link to that thing about my enemy’s enemy not necessarily being my friend Lazy. I didn’t know that there was actually a wiki entry dedicated to the cliché. Doesn’t that quote from Winston Churchill the entry provides rather undermine its premise though?

“A historical example of this policy occurred when Germany invaded the Soviet Union in July 1941, and the fiercely anti-CommunistWinston Churchill, advocating aid to Russia, declared "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Common”

Couldn’t you apply the my-enemy's-enemy cliché to yourself and your supporter who calls himself left-voter Lazy .Just because you both hate the Iranian regime (your enemy) so much ,it doesn’t mean you have to be friends with the murderers and war criminals who organize the embargo ,does it?

by lazy Sun May 30, 2010 14:18

and where did I assert anywhere in the post that I was pals with anyone ?

I simply pointed out that us Irish raise people who profit in creating
and sustaining the misery of people who now watch their children
being starved, brutalised and hung by the very regime that have
bought these bits and pieces from two irish men, who have squirreled
away their profits in illegal bank accounts.

Now they have broken laws to profit, they don't seem much interested
in making political statements and have hid their ill-gotten gains too!

That is what the thread is about, despite the trolling by a few people
above who , in order to detract from the issues raised have decided
to lazily put all sorts of political constructions on the two *heroic* men's
activities.

* They are not heroes : They are Profiteers.

* They are not Political : They are chancers.

* In the eyes of the law they are criminal : they should really admit

where they stashed the cash.

ans since very little motivation has emerged for their profiteering, I
reckon it was for the bacon and pancakes .

by non-voter Sun May 30, 2010 16:54

Lazy , you haven’t said that you are pals with anybody . You posted a link to a wiki article accusing opponents of sanctions of simplistic thinking , and implying that that their opposition makes them friends of the regime in Iran. But you don’t want to apply the same reasoning to yourself and your supporters on this thread. . Doesn’t your support for sanctions imply support for the people who are clamouring for sanctions against Iran i.e the US Britain and the racist Zionist regime? You imply that my support for Iran’s right to defend itself amounts to friendship for the Iranian regime ,so why shouldn’t I say that your support for the policies of mass murderers ,war criminals ,and racists amounts to friendship for mass murderers ,war criminals ,and racists ? Sauce for the goose etc

by hb Sun May 30, 2010 17:21

non-voter - how dare you confront Lazy's simplistic ill-thought-out 'arguments'' with LOGIC!!!!

That's just totally uncalled for- and anyway, s/he admit's s/he is lazy so what did you expect anyway?

by lazy Sun May 30, 2010 17:52

I have no supporters on this thread.

Great that!!

The topic is the two boyos contravening treaties in their mad rush to put the bacon on
the table, IMO everything else is an abstract.

Even Iran's Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust , because it is not pertinent to the
topic which is quite simply -what a shower of selfish , unscrupulous and mean-minded people
in Ireland , whose entrepreneurship (motivated, mind you, by greed and *not* politically)
>>> have added to the woes of the Green revolution through their mean-minded profiteering !!!!

They put bullets in the guns afaic- did they supply the hanging ropes ?

Will they see Malik hang ?

Do they know his mum has been on hunger-strike ?

Did these boyos watch the show-trials of the Ahmadinejad regime ?

Do they give a feck ?

Have the told CAB where the other 93 million is squirreled or is that the retirement pot of gold ??

Have they made *one single * political statement which would explain their motivation, which is
personal greed and profiteering ?

They are not heroes- they are profiteers of misery .

It is twelve months since this story was suppressed, it is just over
12 months since an election was stolen in Iran. It appears easy
for irish people to dismiss the election result and to applaud the
action on thieves and chancers as Political .

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sun May 30, 2010 19:56

You write 'quotident gain from murder or mayhem',Lazy.
Should that read Quotidian(daily or every day) or Quotient(a result obtained by dividing one quantity by the other)?

Either or both make sense.But 'quotident' aint in my Oxbridge.Gotta give it to ya.You live up to your pseudonym.Ease up on the coffee and get more fresh air.No charge for the consultation.Read the history of Iran.Richard Kapuscinki's 'Shah of Shahs' is fair intro.Shalom.

by lazy Mon May 31, 2010 11:58

allow me to correct 'quotidian '

(thanks very much, its awful being lazy but at least it doesn't much harm others, unlike war-profiteering)